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Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&Gv2 in the works...

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  • Richard Finn
    WOW Paul, fantastic!! Dick
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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      WOW Paul, fantastic!!

      Dick

      On Jun 9, 2010, at 10:34 AM, Paul Charland wrote:

       

      Hi All,

      I think I'm about finished converting Fonda to the late 1970s, posted a
      few before and after shots on the Train Sim forum that you can see with
      this link:

      http://forums.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?t=293260

      Paul :-)


    • Paul Larner
      Good moring Paul, I never did get the MS program. Put it on my list years ago after your suggestion, but never went there - someday. Regular steam passenger
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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        Good moring Paul,
         
        I never did get the MS program.  Put it on my list years ago after your suggestion, but never went there - someday.
         
        Regular steam passenger service to Fonda, except for the two Northville trains with the RPO stopped, except for some summertime Sacandaga Park service connections with NYC, in 1905.  The RPO ceased operation May 26, 1917, effectively ending regular steam passenger service of any kind between Northville and Fonda.  As between Gloversville and Fonda, following the construction of the new trolley depot in Johnstown in 1905, except as mention above, all passenger and express service went via the trolley line. 
         
        All regular steam passenger service, except the mixed train, ceased with the acquisition gas cars 200 and 201 in 1922.

        I think it is possible to find enough photos to recreate the critical parts of a 1906 FJ&G.  There were very few customer tracks, most of those being installed after 1920.  Aah, I see the incentive for me to break down and invest in the program.
         
        Again, very nice.  You are a digital craftsman.
         
        PKL  
         
        > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > From: p.charlie@...
        > Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 21:06:12 -0400
        > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&Gv2 in the works...
        >
        > Hi Paul,
        >
        > I'm not sure if you ever did get MS Trainsim or not, but my first effort
        > is pretty close to what you are suggesting. I when by the most
        > information I had which was for the most part 1959. Shots show the
        > turntable in Fonda but also the Sarris Restaurant, both are in the first
        > FJ&G route. I do have a set of 1926 (revised in 1949) plans of Fonda
        > and had a look, see the diamond and coal track but they did not appear
        > in any of the 1959 shots, so were not included.
        >
        > An earlier 50s or maybe a late 40s version of the route might be an idea
        > for the future, not exactly sure off hand when steam passenger service
        > ended on the FJ&G, the sim had no way of turning anything on a turntable
        > so it's not like you could run a passenger train down to Fonda and
        > return, although you could do a short activity one way only. If you had
        > enough information you could go back far enough to include the
        > Northville Branch. A few years ago I was able to trace the line using
        > '80s black and white satellite shots the US Geological Survey had
        > available, would hope the current shots might be even better for this.
        >
        > Paul :-)
        >
        > On 09/06/2010 6:41 PM, Paul Larner wrote:
        > >
        > > You do nice work Paul. Imagine digitally re-creating the railroad
        > > circa 1906, please.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > After the round house closed the diesels, so far as I know, were not
        > > turned; the nose always pointed north, same as the steam freight
        > > locomotives had operated from the turn of the century. The
        > > turntables at Fonda and Broadalbin were used only for the plow, after
        > > the ponies were retired.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I don't know if you care to go for this much detail: in the early
        > > fifties there were three yard tracks and a spur for the oil company
        > > in the FJ&G Fonda yard, in addition to the turntable lead and the
        > > coal track. Without confirming for the purpose of this conversation,
        > > the coal track and diamond may have been removed in the late forties,
        > > or at least when the Sarris Brothers built there restaurant; I recall
        > > stepping over the diamond frog lying in the brush near teh turntable.
        > > On the north (west) end the first switch was on the south (east) end
        > > of the bridge and the second switch shortly beyond the frog. At the
        > > south (east) end of the yard the switch off the siding to the third
        > > track was located a few feet further north than the coal track
        > > switch, with the Standard Oil switch just beyond the frog. The
        > > Standard Oil track came off the second track east (north) of the main
        > > track, extending north (west) to a point nearly opposite the north
        > > frog of the siding. A picture is worth a thousand words however the
        > > map is too big to conveniently scan.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Glenn might be able to add first hand details of what was there in
        > > the 50's, when it disappeared and when Sarris' restaurant was built.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > PKL
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
        > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
        > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
        > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
        > http://ny.existingstations.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
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      • Paul Charland
        Hi John, Just had a look at some photos that were supplied to me a couple of years ago when I first started drawing the route, now that I know what I m looking
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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          Hi John,

          Just had a look at some photos that were supplied to me a couple of
          years ago when I first started drawing the route, now that I know what
          I'm looking at, they make much more sense to me, thanks!

          Paul :-)

          On 10/06/2010 9:02 AM, John wrote:
          > I do not have a plan, I will have to see if I have any pictures
          > showing enough detail.
          >
          > Description would be as follows.
          >
          > The main went straight ahead NB from Patch Road and then swung around
          > a very sharp curve and then headed straight down towards Rt 349 thru
          > swamplands and trees with a few small bridges along the way.
          >
          > The curve was on an embankment around a large depression located on
          > the inside of the curve. A few feet north of Patch Rd a switch had
          > the siding coming off the right side (facing RR NB) and this track
          > went down into the depression and then back out again joining the
          > main maybe a quarter mile down from where the curve on the main
          > ended.
          >
          > In the depression or maybe just slightly up the north side of the
          > depression a switch and track came off on the right side (facing RR
          > NB)and headed south into the Coleco building. The track ran along the
          > very West side of the building going pretty much the entire length of
          > the inside. (assuming you are facing RR North when standing at the
          > Patch Rd crossing looking North up the tracks).
          >
          > Finally, there was a siding that came off the right side of the main
          > "runaround" siding just before this track headed into the depression
          > (I am not really sure about the location of this switch). This siding
          > then came back SB towards Patch Rd on the West side of Coleco but
          > outside. They used this siding to unload pellet cars outside for
          > transfer by truck to the Mayfield molding plant.
          >
          > Let me know if I can be of more help.
        • Paul Charland
          Hi Dick, As I said before, had a lot of help from Gino and many others from this list while doing the route. I might be able to draw but without their help I
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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            Hi Dick,

            As I said before, had a lot of help from Gino and many others from this
            list while doing the route. I might be able to draw but without their
            help I wouldn't have had a clue what I was drawing!

            Paul :-)

            On 10/06/2010 9:58 AM, Richard Finn wrote:
            > WOW Paul, fantastic!!
            >
            > Dick
          • Paul Charland
            Hi Paul, I think the research for an early version of the railroad is going to be the interesting part. What customers were served, what building existed back
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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              Hi Paul,

              I think the research for an early version of the railroad is going to be
              the interesting part. What customers were served, what building existed
              back then, were roads all dirt, what tracks were electric... the list
              goes on and on... but research is half the fun with a route.

              People are saying MS Train Sim is getting hard to find now. If you see
              one, grab it. There are people in the TrainSim world who are working on
              a replacement for the MicroSoft version, it's called Open Rails... open
              as in open source. It will be 100% compatible with files created in
              MSTS, so what I create now will be able to be used with Open Rails
              (actually have been told by one of the key people they have been using
              the FJ&G route for testing). So... even if you can't find MSTS
              somewhere, eventually you will be able to fine Open Rails to use in it's
              place.

              Paul :-)

              On 10/06/2010 10:00 AM, Paul Larner wrote:
              >
              > Good moring Paul,
              >
              >
              >
              > I never did get the MS program. Put it on my list years ago after
              > your suggestion, but never went there - someday.
              >
              >
              >
              > Regular steam passenger service to Fonda, except for the two
              > Northville trains with the RPO stopped, except for some summertime
              > Sacandaga Park service connections with NYC, in 1905. The RPO ceased
              > operation May 26, 1917, effectively ending regular steam passenger
              > service of any kind between Northville and Fonda. As between
              > Gloversville and Fonda, following the construction of the new trolley
              > depot in Johnstown in 1905, except as mention above, all passenger
              > and express service went via the trolley line.
              >
              >
              >
              > All regular steam passenger service, except the mixed train, ceased
              > with the acquisition gas cars 200 and 201 in 1922.
              >
              >
              > I think it is possible to find enough photos to recreate the critical
              > parts of a 1906 FJ&G. There were very few customer tracks, most of
              > those being installed after 1920. Aah, I see the incentive for me to
              > break down and invest in the program.
              >
              >
              >
              > Again, very nice. You are a digital craftsman.
              >
              >
              >
              > PKL
            • Paul Larner
              Paul, From the looks of the tracks there wasn t much engineering done before laying them out. IIRC the initial installation, 1967, was a facing point switch
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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                Paul,
                 
                From the looks of the tracks there wasn't much engineering done before laying them out.  IIRC the initial installation, 1967, was a facing point switch southward into the plant.  Later, 1970s DO perhaps, a switch was installed creating a single runaround track running from the main at Patch road to track into the plant.  We could guestimate the actual footage and photos will support the relative layout on the ground.  Off the track connecting to Patch road was a spur near Patch road. 
                 
                PKL 
                 

                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                From: p.charlie@...
                Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 22:05:31 -0400
                Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&Gv2 in the works...

                 
                Hi Gino,

                There is a Brill model 55 out there, and a couple of different Americans
                too. I'd like to finish what I've started with the late '70s version
                but maybe while I'm doing that maybe we can gather what I'd need to do a
                third version of the line. What's the date for the Brill, just checked
                your website and found the Northville Branch would have to be pre-1930.

                Speaking of track plans, does anyone have a plan for the Coleco tracks
                before they expanded over the mainline?

                Paul :-)

                On 09/06/2010 9:39 PM, Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                > Paul,
                >
                > It may not be too difficult to do a 1928 Northville Branch. Now that
                > would be crazy cool! There's probably enough info in the valuations
                > to do the Northville, Cranberry Creek and Mayfield station. The rest
                > of the line would be trees and farmland. There is a bridge at
                > Mayfield that is pretty standard and you could fudge a lumber yard at
                > Northville. We have all the track plans so that part would be easy!
                >
                > I think it's a challenge you can take and complete! Give us a couple
                > Americans and it will be sweet! Heck, I'd like to run the Model 55
                > from Gloversville to Northville!
                >
                > Gino




                The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.
              • Dicarlo, Gino
                I ll have to see what I did with the roster! Sent from my iPhone On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:54 AM, Paul Charland
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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                  I'll have to see what I did with the roster!

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Jun 10, 2010, at 6:54 AM, "Paul Charland" <p.charlie@...<mailto:p.charlie@...>> wrote:



                  Hi Gino,

                  1920-30 sounds interesting... could even have a Curtiss Genny flying past.

                  You use to have a complete roster on the old website, can't find it on
                  the new one. Just a text page, can't seem to find it here, do you
                  remember the name of the file, I probably still have the page?

                  Paul :-)

                  On 09/06/2010 11:15 PM, Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                  > If it's the Brill 55, it can be between 1920 and 1930. Yes, a long
                  > time ago. Most of the line wouldn't change much from your 1950's,
                  > maybe just adding an electric track for the ROW between Gloversville
                  > Yard and Market Street in Johnstown. You could really have a new
                  > challenge with a 1920's version. There's got to be something similar
                  > to Number 14 out there in NYC paint!
                  >
                  > I will get you the old info, but I don't have the Coleco layout. I'm
                  > sure Aaron has that somewhere...
                  >
                  > Gino
                • Glenn J. Williams
                  ... By the mid to late 50s, only the turntable and the track leading to it from the east were left. Sarris restaurant was built no later than the mid 50s.
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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                    --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                    > [snip]
                    >
                    > I don't know if you care to go for this much detail: in the early fifties there were three yard tracks and a spur for the oil company in the FJ&G Fonda yard, in addition to the turntable lead and the coal track. Without confirming for the purpose of this conversation, the coal track and diamond may have been removed in the late forties, or at least when the Sarris Brothers built there restaurant; I recall stepping over the diamond frog lying in the brush near teh turntable. On the north (west) end the first switch was on the south (east) end of the bridge and the second switch shortly beyond the frog. At the south (east) end of the yard the switch off the siding to the third track was located a few feet further north than the coal track switch, with the Standard Oil switch just beyond the frog. The Standard Oil track came off the second track east (north) of the main track, extending north (west) to a point nearly opposite the north frog of the siding. A picture is worth a thousand words however the map is too big to conveniently scan.
                    >
                    > Glenn might be able to add first hand details of what was there in the 50's, when it disappeared and when Sarris' restaurant was built.
                    >
                    > PKL

                    By the mid to late 50s, only the turntable and the track leading to it from the east were left. Sarris' restaurant was built no later than the mid 50s.

                    Somewhere I have detail pictures of the turntable taken around that time. Time to fire up the scanner!

                    Glenn
                    Penacook, NH
                  • Mark Wilber
                    The siding outside the building that had pellets was called the Vinyl Track,for vinyl pellets unloading (mostly used for swimming pools). Plastic pellets were
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 10, 2010
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                      The siding outside the building that had pellets was called the Vinyl Track,for vinyl pellets unloading (mostly used for swimming pools). Plastic pellets were unloaded inside the building.Inside the building, covered hopper cars with plastic pellets were spotted most extreme south end. Three box cars could also be spotted at the same time,plus room for a locomotive.Mark



                      From: John <jsesonske@...>
                      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 9:02:12 AM
                      Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: FJ&Gv2 in the works...

                       

                      I do not have a plan, I will have to see if I have any pictures showing enough detail.

                      Description would be as follows.

                      The main went straight ahead NB from Patch Road and then swung around a very sharp curve and then headed straight down towards Rt 349 thru swamplands and trees with a few small bridges along the way.

                      The curve was on an embankment around a large depression located on the inside of the curve. A few feet north of Patch Rd a switch had the siding coming off the right side (facing RR NB) and this track went down into the depression and then back out again joining the main maybe a quarter mile down from where the curve on the main ended.

                      In the depression or maybe just slightly up the north side of the depression a switch and track came off on the right side (facing RR NB)and headed south into the Coleco building. The track ran along the very West side of the building going pretty much the entire length of the inside. (assuming you are facing RR North when standing at the Patch Rd crossing looking North up the tracks).

                      Finally, there was a siding that came off the right side of the main "runaround" siding just before this track headed into the depression (I am not really sure about the location of this switch). This siding then came back SB towards Patch Rd on the West side of Coleco but outside. They used this siding to unload pellet cars outside for transfer by truck to the Mayfield molding plant.

                      Let me know if I can be of more help.

                      --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Speaking of track plans, does anyone have a plan for the Coleco tracks
                      > before they expanded over the mainline?
                      >
                      > Paul :-)
                      >


                    • Paul Charland
                      Hi Mark, Thanks, was there a name given to the run-around track at Coleco? Paul :-)
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 11, 2010
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                        Hi Mark,

                        Thanks, was there a name given to the run-around track at Coleco?

                        Paul :-)

                        On 10/06/2010 10:37 PM, Mark Wilber wrote:
                        > The siding outside the building that had pellets was called the Vinyl
                        > Track,for vinyl pellets unloading (mostly used for swimming pools).
                        > Plastic pellets were unloaded inside the building.Inside the
                        > building, covered hopper cars with plastic pellets were spotted most
                        > extreme south end. Three box cars could also be spotted at the same
                        > time,plus room for a locomotive.Mark
                      • Fjgrailroad
                        Maybe it was vinyl track that caused the derailments back there. I seem to recall Mark mentioning something like that... Sent from my iPhone
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 11, 2010
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                          Maybe it was 'vinyl' track that caused the derailments back there.  I seem to recall Mark mentioning something like that...  

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Mark Wilber <mwilber2001@...> wrote:

                           

                          The siding outside the building that had pellets was called the Vinyl Track,for vinyl pellets unloading (mostly used for swimming pools). Plastic pellets were unloaded inside the building.Inside the building, covered hopper cars with plastic pellets were spotted most extreme south end. Three box cars could also be spotted at the same time,plus room for a locomotive.Mark



                          From: John <jsesonske@aol. com>
                          To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 9:02:12 AM
                          Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: FJ&Gv2 in the works...

                           

                          I do not have a plan, I will have to see if I have any pictures showing enough detail.

                          Description would be as follows.

                          The main went straight ahead NB from Patch Road and then swung around a very sharp curve and then headed straight down towards Rt 349 thru swamplands and trees with a few small bridges along the way.

                          The curve was on an embankment around a large depression located on the inside of the curve. A few feet north of Patch Rd a switch had the siding coming off the right side (facing RR NB) and this track went down into the depression and then back out again joining the main maybe a quarter mile down from where the curve on the main ended.

                          In the depression or maybe just slightly up the north side of the depression a switch and track came off on the right side (facing RR NB)and headed south into the Coleco building. The track ran along the very West side of the building going pretty much the entire length of the inside. (assuming you are facing RR North when standing at the Patch Rd crossing looking North up the tracks).

                          Finally, there was a siding that came off the right side of the main "runaround" siding just before this track headed into the depression (I am not really sure about the location of this switch). This siding then came back SB towards Patch Rd on the West side of Coleco but outside. They used this siding to unload pellet cars outside for transfer by truck to the Mayfield molding plant.

                          Let me know if I can be of more help.

                          --- In FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Charland <p.charlie@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Speaking of track plans, does anyone have a plan for the Coleco tracks
                          > before they expanded over the mainline?
                          >
                          > Paul :-)
                          >


                        • Mark Wilber
                          I think the switch in the hole, (runaround & track to the inside of building) gave us the most problems.Mark ________________________________ From: Fjgrailroad
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 11, 2010
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                            I think the switch in the hole, (runaround & track to the inside of building) gave us the most problems.Mark



                            From: Fjgrailroad <fjgrailroad@...>
                            To: "FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Fri, June 11, 2010 8:44:21 AM
                            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: FJ&Gv2 in the works...

                             

                            Maybe it was 'vinyl' track that caused the derailments back there.  I seem to recall Mark mentioning something like that...  

                            Sent from my iPhone

                            On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:37 PM, Mark Wilber <mwilber2001@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                             

                            The siding outside the building that had pellets was called the Vinyl Track,for vinyl pellets unloading (mostly used for swimming pools). Plastic pellets were unloaded inside the building.Inside the building, covered hopper cars with plastic pellets were spotted most extreme south end. Three box cars could also be spotted at the same time,plus room for a locomotive.Mark



                            From: John <jsesonske@aol. com>
                            To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Thu, June 10, 2010 9:02:12 AM
                            Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: FJ&Gv2 in the works...

                             

                            I do not have a plan, I will have to see if I have any pictures showing enough detail.

                            Description would be as follows.

                            The main went straight ahead NB from Patch Road and then swung around a very sharp curve and then headed straight down towards Rt 349 thru swamplands and trees with a few small bridges along the way.

                            The curve was on an embankment around a large depression located on the inside of the curve. A few feet north of Patch Rd a switch had the siding coming off the right side (facing RR NB) and this track went down into the depression and then back out again joining the main maybe a quarter mile down from where the curve on the main ended.

                            In the depression or maybe just slightly up the north side of the depression a switch and track came off on the right side (facing RR NB)and headed south into the Coleco building. The track ran along the very West side of the building going pretty much the entire length of the inside. (assuming you are facing RR North when standing at the Patch Rd crossing looking North up the tracks).

                            Finally, there was a siding that came off the right side of the main "runaround" siding just before this track headed into the depression (I am not really sure about the location of this switch). This siding then came back SB towards Patch Rd on the West side of Coleco but outside. They used this siding to unload pellet cars outside for transfer by truck to the Mayfield molding plant.

                            Let me know if I can be of more help.

                            --- In FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com, Paul Charland <p.charlie@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Speaking of track plans, does anyone have a plan for the Coleco tracks
                            > before they expanded over the mainline?
                            >
                            > Paul :-)
                            >



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