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Re: [FJGRailroad] Lumber and All Door Questions

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  • Mark Wilber
    Couldnt happen on a better day. Because of the derailment,we were home by the 2nd half of the game. ________________________________ From: Dicarlo, Gino
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 24, 2009
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      Couldnt happen on a better day. Because of the derailment,we were home by the 2nd half of the game.


      From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
      To: "FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com" <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 10:48:23 PM
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Lumber and All Door Questions

       

      Here's a great story of winter on the Broadalbin Line from Mark Wilbur.  It mentions Martin Lumber...

       

      What saved Broadalbin in the late 70's was Martin Lumber. If it wasn't for

      them, they'd probably still would of shut down that line in the winter.

      Those winters up there were horrible.  Some days and nights all we would do

      was picking ice at the crossings. Minus 0 degrees at night was basically a

      every night thing for us to work in. I'll never forget Super bowl Sunday in

      1980. Hauling up the tracks with about 10 empty lumber cars going by Coleco

      at Patch. Ice had accumulated on top of the tracks. We found ourselves

      fishtailing, then sliding down the tracks at 90 degrees.  Then slid off and

      down a small bank. What a mess. That was with #20. Next day, just happen #21

      was inside Coleco. We went in to get that to help out the re-railing job.

      We derailed that at the switch. After 3 or 4 days everything was back

      on. 

       

      Mark

       

      From: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FJGRailroad @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John
      Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 10:09 PM
      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: [FJGRailroad] Lumber and All Door Questions

       

       

      I had 3 questions... ...

      First, does anyone know the story behind the black CACV All Door cars. Why did they initially have DH reporting marks but CACV heralds and why did CACV need them. Were they just per diem cars? I do not believe they were for originating loads on the CACV or were they. I think I initially remember them bringing some loads onto the FJG and then they ended up in the Broadalbin pool.

      Second, regarding the Broadalbin lumber business, this was just an open shed south of the station. Where was the lumber cut and who was doing it. Seemed like this operation just sprung up with little publicity and then disappeared just as quickly and quietly (at least as much as I remember). They did load a lot of cars while they were in business.

      Finally, does anyone know of any lettering diagrams in existence for the blue DO all doors?


    • John
      As a follow up to my original questions.... Gino, thanks for posting the LH alldoor article. Joe, can you post those 3 articles in the files section or does
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 30, 2009
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        As a follow up to my original questions....

        Gino, thanks for posting the LH alldoor article. Joe, can you post those 3 articles in the files section or does copyright not allow that? After reading the alldoor article (and reading the responses to my original post) I was wondering why they decided to put the lumber load facility in Broadalbin. While Broadalbin is closer to Lake George then Gville it would have been logistically easier for the FJG if they trucked the lumber to the G'ville yard for transload--or for that matter, why not just load direct on Conrail at Fonda (siding west of village that Keymark used occassionally) or Conrail West Albany transload? Maybe it had something to do with number of roundtrips a driver could make per shift to get the lumber to the railhead?

        Regarding those CACV black alldoors, I am still curious why they were originally painted with DH reporting marks and shields but Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley heralds. If they were originally DH cars why not have D&H spelled out on the cars. Just seems like an odd mix and can't recall other examples of cars being jointly painted for a class one and shortline. I realize they soon became pure CACV boxcars. The D&H Color Guide has a picture of the car in as delivered lettering.



        --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jsesonske@...> wrote:
        >
        > I had 3 questions......
        >
        > First, does anyone know the story behind the black CACV All Door cars. Why did they initially have DH reporting marks but CACV heralds and why did CACV need them. Were they just per diem cars? I do not believe they were for originating loads on the CACV or were they. I think I initially remember them bringing some loads onto the FJG and then they ended up in the Broadalbin pool.
        >
        > Second, regarding the Broadalbin lumber business, this was just an open shed south of the station. Where was the lumber cut and who was doing it. Seemed like this operation just sprung up with little publicity and then disappeared just as quickly and quietly (at least as much as I remember). They did load a lot of cars while they were in business.
        >
        > Finally, does anyone know of any lettering diagrams in existence for the blue DO all doors?
        >
      • Dicarlo, Gino
        My guess is the D&H used Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley a lot like they used G&J on their equipment used on the G&J. Even though they owned the CACV from
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 30, 2009
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          My guess is the D&H used 'Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley' a lot like they used G&J on their equipment used

          on the G&J.  Even though they owned the CACV from around 1901 to 1972, they still put Cooperstown and

          blah, blah, blah on things.  In that same thread, I don't know if they ever put "Cherry Valley" on anything!

           

          Gino

           

          From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
          Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:12 PM
          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Lumber and All Door Questions

           

           

          As a follow up to my original questions....

          Gino, thanks for posting the LH alldoor article. Joe, can you post those 3 articles in the files section or does copyright not allow that? After reading the alldoor article (and reading the responses to my original post) I was wondering why they decided to put the lumber load facility in Broadalbin. While Broadalbin is closer to Lake George then Gville it would have been logistically easier for the FJG if they trucked the lumber to the G'ville yard for transload--or for that matter, why not just load direct on Conrail at Fonda (siding west of village that Keymark used occassionally) or Conrail West Albany transload? Maybe it had something to do with number of roundtrips a driver could make per shift to get the lumber to the railhead?

          Regarding those CACV black alldoors, I am still curious why they were originally painted with DH reporting marks and shields but Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley heralds. If they were originally DH cars why not have D&H spelled out on the cars. Just seems like an odd mix and can't recall other examples of cars being jointly painted for a class one and shortline. I realize they soon became pure CACV boxcars. The D&H Color Guide has a picture of the car in as delivered lettering.

          --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jsesonske@...> wrote:

          >
          > I had 3 questions......
          >
          > First, does anyone know the story behind the black CACV All Door cars. Why
          did they initially have DH reporting marks but CACV heralds and why did CACV need them. Were they just per diem cars? I do not believe they were for originating loads on the CACV or were they. I think I initially remember them bringing some loads onto the FJG and then they ended up in the Broadalbin pool.
          >
          > Second, regarding the Broadalbin lumber business, this was just an open
          shed south of the station. Where was the lumber cut and who was doing it. Seemed like this operation just sprung up with little publicity and then disappeared just as quickly and quietly (at least as much as I remember). They did load a lot of cars while they were in business.
          >
          > Finally, does anyone know of any lettering diagrams in existence for the
          blue DO all doors?
          >

        • slamora1@nycap.rr.com
          John I would say the reason for shipping with the FJ&G is they gave Martin Lumber the best shipping rate.Conrail was probebly higher on shipping charges than
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 30, 2009
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            John I would say the reason for shipping with the FJ&G is they gave Martin Lumber the best shipping rate.Conrail was probebly higher on shipping charges than the D&H,The reason for Broadalbin as a shipping point could have been the FJ&G looking for longer ship rate as well?They could have loaded them in the west yard there was plenty of room or over by the Daniel Hayes Glove company.

            Steve Lamora

            --- John <jsesonske@...> wrote:
            > As a follow up to my original questions....
            >
            > Gino, thanks for posting the LH alldoor article. Joe, can you post those 3 articles in the files section or does copyright not allow that? After reading the alldoor article (and reading the responses to my original post) I was wondering why they decided to put the lumber load facility in Broadalbin. While Broadalbin is closer to Lake George then Gville it would have been logistically easier for the FJG if they trucked the lumber to the G'ville yard for transload--or for that matter, why not just load direct on Conrail at Fonda (siding west of village that Keymark used occassionally) or Conrail West Albany transload? Maybe it had something to do with number of roundtrips a driver could make per shift to get the lumber to the railhead?
            >
            > Regarding those CACV black alldoors, I am still curious why they were originally painted with DH reporting marks and shields but Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley heralds. If they were originally DH cars why not have D&H spelled out on the cars. Just seems like an odd mix and can't recall other examples of cars being jointly painted for a class one and shortline. I realize they soon became pure CACV boxcars. The D&H Color Guide has a picture of the car in as delivered lettering.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jsesonske@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I had 3 questions......
            > >
            > > First, does anyone know the story behind the black CACV All Door cars. Why did they initially have DH reporting marks but CACV heralds and why did CACV need them. Were they just per diem cars? I do not believe they were for originating loads on the CACV or were they. I think I initially remember them bringing some loads onto the FJG and then they ended up in the Broadalbin pool.
            > >
            > > Second, regarding the Broadalbin lumber business, this was just an open shed south of the station. Where was the lumber cut and who was doing it. Seemed like this operation just sprung up with little publicity and then disappeared just as quickly and quietly (at least as much as I remember). They did load a lot of cars while they were in business.
            > >
            > > Finally, does anyone know of any lettering diagrams in existence for the blue DO all doors?
            > >
            >
            >
          • John
            It must have been something like that unless it was car availability since Conrail had no all doors. Of course the D&H did not have any either. I have no idea
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 30, 2009
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              It must have been something like that unless it was car availability since Conrail had no all doors. Of course the D&H did not have any either. I have no idea how rates worked back in the late 70's before rate deregulation. I know that after deregulation it should have been cheaper to avoid the FJG since Conrail still wants their cut once they got the cars in Fonda. In theory the FJG just adds another railroad looking for a portion of the rate or a larger rate to cover the extra railroad.

              --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, <slamora1@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > John I would say the reason for shipping with the FJ&G is they gave Martin Lumber the best shipping rate.Conrail was probebly higher on shipping charges than the D&H,The reason for Broadalbin as a shipping point could have been the FJ&G looking for longer ship rate as well?They could have loaded them in the west yard there was plenty of room or over by the Daniel Hayes Glove company.
              >
              > Steve Lamora
              >
              > --- John <jsesonske@...> wrote:
              > > As a follow up to my original questions....
              > >
              > > Gino, thanks for posting the LH alldoor article. Joe, can you post those 3 articles in the files section or does copyright not allow that? After reading the alldoor article (and reading the responses to my original post) I was wondering why they decided to put the lumber load facility in Broadalbin. While Broadalbin is closer to Lake George then Gville it would have been logistically easier for the FJG if they trucked the lumber to the G'ville yard for transload--or for that matter, why not just load direct on Conrail at Fonda (siding west of village that Keymark used occassionally) or Conrail West Albany transload? Maybe it had something to do with number of roundtrips a driver could make per shift to get the lumber to the railhead?
              > >
              > > Regarding those CACV black alldoors, I am still curious why they were originally painted with DH reporting marks and shields but Cooperstown & Charlotte Valley heralds. If they were originally DH cars why not have D&H spelled out on the cars. Just seems like an odd mix and can't recall other examples of cars being jointly painted for a class one and shortline. I realize they soon became pure CACV boxcars. The D&H Color Guide has a picture of the car in as delivered lettering.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jsesonske@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I had 3 questions......
              > > >
              > > > First, does anyone know the story behind the black CACV All Door cars. Why did they initially have DH reporting marks but CACV heralds and why did CACV need them. Were they just per diem cars? I do not believe they were for originating loads on the CACV or were they. I think I initially remember them bringing some loads onto the FJG and then they ended up in the Broadalbin pool.
              > > >
              > > > Second, regarding the Broadalbin lumber business, this was just an open shed south of the station. Where was the lumber cut and who was doing it. Seemed like this operation just sprung up with little publicity and then disappeared just as quickly and quietly (at least as much as I remember). They did load a lot of cars while they were in business.
              > > >
              > > > Finally, does anyone know of any lettering diagrams in existence for the blue DO all doors?
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
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