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RE: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster

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  • joseph Klapkowski
    Sign me up ! To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com From: pklarner@hotmail.com Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:17:47 -0400 Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 5, 2009
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      Sign me up !
       

      To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com
      From: pklarner@...
      Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:17:47 -0400
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster



      Thanks Gino.  Seems like I just talked to Jim, this week.  If we do have a get together this summer a trip up the Mtn Lk rr might be able to be arranged.  Jim said the man in charge was more than willing and happy to accommodate him for a trip over the route.
       
      I'll be in Piseco Wednesday night for a talk on the FJ&G and its relation to Piseco.  Short talk.
       
      Paul
       

      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
      Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:46:36 -0400
      Subject: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster





      In 1902, Fourth of July revelers met disaster on railroad tracks
      Saturday, July 4, 2009

      Photo of
      Wreckage lies on the tracks in the wake of the 1902 Mountain Lake Train wreck between Gloversville and Bleecker, which took the lives of 14 people.
      Text Size: A | A | A

       — The forest has encroached on what is now a jeep-track service road for the Gloversville Water Department, but photos of the fatal 1902 crash on the hairpin turn halfway up Bleecker Mountain leave no doubt where the railway car lay in the ditch.
      Given what happened there that Fourth of July, the serenity of the scene more than a century later evokes an eerie feeling at the spot where the two Mountain Lake Electric Railroad cars left the track, killing 14 and injuring 60.
      The rails were removed in 1918, but the railbed appears completely intact as it winds its way up the mountain to the site of the former Mountain Lake Park resort, where holiday revelers viewed the fireworks that evening before boarding the cars about 10 p.m.
      The crash has been immortalized in railroad lore and written about almost every anniversary. Fulton County Historian Peter Betz has written about it himself and keeps a thick file that includes a front-page account in The Gloversville Daily Leader. The headline declares: “Dying Motorman Makes Statement.” A subheadline reads: “Survivors Tell Thrilling Stories of their Experiences.”
      As much as Betz knows about how novice motorman William Dodge violated procedure by starting Car 5 down the hill only 500 feet behind Car 1, he defers on the subject to Gloversville native and author Paul Larner, whose second volume on the history of the FJ&G Railroad will include a chapter on the crash. It was the accident and the subsequent wave of lawsuits that bankrupted the Mountain Lake Railroad and led to its sale in 1904 to the FJ&G, which operated it until 1917 through its subsidiary, the Adirondack Lakes Traction Co.
      The Mountain Lake tracks began at North Main and State streets, allowing riders to disembark there from an FJ&G trolley and catch the ride to Mountain Lake. FJ&G later joined the lines, Larner said.
      Larner, who has copies of the state and local records from that period, said the resort at Mountain Lake as well as the railbed were sold in 1903 to Gloversville attorney Jeremiah Wood for what was described as “a nominal sum.” Wood did not buy the rails or any of the cars and railroad equipment, said Larner, who recently retired from a railroad career that began in his youth with the FJ&G and concluded with Amtrak.
      Larner said his second volume, like his first, “Our Railroad,” will be more of a community history than a book for train buffs. As in “Our Railroad,” which traces the FJ&G through 1894, Larner said the story of the Mountain Lake Electric Railroad involves many local people whose descendants remain in Fulton County.
      Going through the records, Larner said, “you start picking up the family names and who did what and when.”
      FAMILY TIES
      Those family connections surfaced immediately as he spoke of the group of investors who put up $60,000 in 1895 to start the venture that would include the railroad and resort. Another $20,000, assigned to a separate corporation, was raised to buy the land at the lake and build a three-story hotel, dance pavilion, shooting gallery and other facilities.
      Among those investors was James Washburn, great-grandfather of William, John and Elmer Washburn. James Washburn may not have boasted of his investment in the line, but it was passed down through the family that he was in the car due next to descend.
      James Washburn’s son was William Louis “Lou” Washburn, who founded Washburn’s Dairy and ice cream company. Two of his grandsons continue to run the North Main Street business.
      John Washburn, a Wells Fargo stockbroker, said he was only vaguely aware of his great-grandfather’ s activities involving the railroad. However, he said, there is a letter in which a Massachusetts man inquires of James Washburn, “How’s our investment going up there?”
      Just a couple of blocks from the dairy is the law office of Wood & Seward where Jeremiah Wood’s great-grandson, Jeremiah “Jay” Wood IV, keeps up the practice passed down in the family.
      Jay Wood said he knows his forebear was a big land speculator but he said he was unaware of the connection to the railroad and resort. However, he said, it does explain the roll of Mountain Lake railroad tickets he discovered in the family possessions.
      “I wondered what that was,” Wood said. It is also clear, Wood said, concurring with Larner about the local connections, “people don’t get far around here.”
      Larner has the accident records kept by the state Railroad Commission. The agency did a detailed study of the cars and tracks, calculating degrees of curves and grades, which at the hairpin exceeded 11 percent.
      It is evident, Larner said, that Dodge “was going too fast.” There was testimony that the Mountain Lake Railroad failed to equip its cars with the most modern magnetic brake systems.
      “They were lax, they were poor,” Larner said of the railroad company, which had actually made a profit in 1901, its first year in business.
      Dodge and the motorman in Car 1, the veteran Arthur Perkins, pulled on levers that applied the brakes to the steel wheels. Car 5, a closed car carrying about 55 passengers, also had a reputation for being hard to brake, according to the accident investigators.
      The motormen, said Larner, “pulled the lever and held on as hard as they could.” But, he said, with that system on a wet, rainy night, traveling too fast, “there’s no stopping; you’ve got to understand the physics.”
      An 11 percent grade on a hairpin turn, Larner said, “is one hell of a grade.”
      DEADLY CRASH
      As the two cars approached the curve above the hairpin where they left the tracks, Car 5 crashed into the rear of open sided Car 1 with its 75 passengers, sending both out of control.
      As Dodge explained before dying two days later, “The brakes would not work and I could not control the car.”
      Larner said Dodge tried to regain control by putting it in reverse, but that action blew the circuit breaker, extinguishing the lights in both cars.
      Though accounts of the day estimate the cars traveling at up to 70 mph as they approached the hairpin, Larner said that is improbable although it may have seemed that way in the darkness.
      When Car 1 left the rails and flopped on its side, passengers were thrown beneath it. Those who could or dared to, jumped from the cars before the crash.
      Newspaper stories credit 17-year-old William Berghoff with running back up the tracks to stop the next car. The members of the Vaudeville company performing that night, Patten and Perry, joined in the rescue effort.
      Electricity was restored an hour later, allowing a rescue car carrying medical personnel from Nathan Littauer Hospital to reach the scene.
      The Daily Leader, describing the accident scene, said, “The mental torture was something terrible, and to those who were penned up in the charnel place, with the dead underneath them and the wounded among them, with no lights to show them the awful state of affairs, and the shrieks and groans of the injured and the ominous silence of the people under the car and in the creek, it is something which no lifetime will ever make them forget.”
      On an inside page is the advertisement for the Mountain Lake Park program for the first week in July.
      The man who organized the Mountain Lake Railroad, silk salesman Samuel Elmer, died before the disaster. “The way I see it,” Larner said, “it was fortunate Elmer died before he saw this wreck destroy his railroad.”
      If the wreck did not destroy it, Betz said, the lightning strike that burned down the Mountain Lake Hotel in 1908 sent the resort into an irreversible slide.
      Larner’s first volume is available at Mysteries on Main Street in Johnstown, or from the Web site FJGRR.org.


      Sent from my iPhone



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    • Jerry Snyder
      Railfest is August 8 this year.  If we want to get together/do anything relating to that we need to get moving on it.  I m willing to help out with
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 6, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Railfest is August 8 this year.  If we want to get together/do anything relating to that we need to get moving on it.  I'm willing to help out with arrangements at this end.
        Jerry

        --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...> wrote:

        From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...>
        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster
        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:35 PM

        A trip up the Mountain Lake ROW would be awesome!

        Gino

        On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:


        Thanks Gino.  Seems like I just talked to Jim, this week.  If we do have a get together this summer a trip up the Mtn Lk rr might be able to be arranged.  Jim said the man in charge was more than willing and happy to accommodate him for a trip over the route.
         
        I'll be in Piseco Wednesday night for a talk on the FJ&G and its relation to Piseco.  Short talk.
         
        Paul
         

        To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
        From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
        Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:46:36 -0400
        Subject: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster





        In 1902, Fourth of July revelers met disaster on railroad tracks
        Saturday, July 4, 2009
        By Jim McGuire (Contact)
        Gazette Reporter

        Photo of
        Wreckage lies on the tracks in the wake of the 1902 Mountain Lake Train wreck between Gloversville and Bleecker, which took the lives of 14 people.
        Text Size: A | A | A
        GLOVERSVILLE — The forest has encroached on what is now a jeep-track service road for the Gloversville Water Department, but photos of the fatal 1902 crash on the hairpin turn halfway up Bleecker Mountain leave no doubt where the railway car lay in the ditch.
        Given what happened there that Fourth of July, the serenity of the scene more than a century later evokes an eerie feeling at the spot where the two Mountain Lake Electric Railroad cars left the track, killing 14 and injuring 60.
        The rails were removed in 1918, but the railbed appears completely intact as it winds its way up the mountain to the site of the former Mountain Lake Park resort, where holiday revelers viewed the fireworks that evening before boarding the cars about 10 p.m.
        The crash has been immortalized in railroad lore and written about almost every anniversary. Fulton County Historian Peter Betz has written about it himself and keeps a thick file that includes a front-page account in The Gloversville Daily Leader. The headline declares: “Dying Motorman Makes Statement.” A subheadline reads: “Survivors Tell Thrilling Stories of their Experiences.”
        As much as Betz knows about how novice motorman William Dodge violated procedure by starting Car 5 down the hill only 500 feet behind Car 1, he defers on the subject to Gloversville native and author Paul Larner, whose second volume on the history of the FJ&G Railroad will include a chapter on the crash. It was the accident and the subsequent wave of lawsuits that bankrupted the Mountain Lake Railroad and led to its sale in 1904 to the FJ&G, which operated it until 1917 through its subsidiary, the Adirondack Lakes Traction Co.
        The Mountain Lake tracks began at North Main and State streets, allowing riders to disembark there from an FJ&G trolley and catch the ride to Mountain Lake. FJ&G later joined the lines, Larner said.
        Larner, who has copies of the state and local records from that period, said the resort at Mountain Lake as well as the railbed were sold in 1903 to Gloversville attorney Jeremiah Wood for what was described as “a nominal sum.” Wood did not buy the rails or any of the cars and railroad equipment, said Larner, who recently retired from a railroad career that began in his youth with the FJ&G and concluded with Amtrak.
        Larner said his second volume, like his first, “Our Railroad,” will be more of a community history than a book for train buffs. As in “Our Railroad,” which traces the FJ&G through 1894, Larner said the story of the Mountain Lake Electric Railroad involves many local people whose descendants remain in Fulton County.
        Going through the records, Larner said, “you start picking up the family names and who did what and when.”
        FAMILY TIES
        Those family connections surfaced immediately as he spoke of the group of investors who put up $60,000 in 1895 to start the venture that would include the railroad and resort. Another $20,000, assigned to a separate corporation, was raised to buy the land at the lake and build a three-story hotel, dance pavilion, shooting gallery and other facilities.
        Among those investors was James Washburn, great-grandfather of William, John and Elmer Washburn. James Washburn may not have boasted of his investment in the line, but it was passed down through the family that he was in the car due next to descend.
        James Washburn’s son was William Louis “Lou” Washburn, who founded Washburn’s Dairy and ice cream company. Two of his grandsons continue to run the North Main Street business.
        John Washburn, a Wells Fargo stockbroker, said he was only vaguely aware of his great-grandfather’ s activities involving the railroad. However, he said, there is a letter in which a Massachusetts man inquires of James Washburn, “How’s our investment going up there?”
        Just a couple of blocks from the dairy is the law office of Wood & Seward where Jeremiah Wood’s great-grandson, Jeremiah “Jay” Wood IV, keeps up the practice passed down in the family.
        Jay Wood said he knows his forebear was a big land speculator but he said he was unaware of the connection to the railroad and resort. However, he said, it does explain the roll of Mountain Lake railroad tickets he discovered in the family possessions.
        “I wondered what that was,” Wood said. It is also clear, Wood said, concurring with Larner about the local connections, “people don’t get far around here.”
        Larner has the accident records kept by the state Railroad Commission. The agency did a detailed study of the cars and tracks, calculating degrees of curves and grades, which at the hairpin exceeded 11 percent.
        It is evident, Larner said, that Dodge “was going too fast.” There was testimony that the Mountain Lake Railroad failed to equip its cars with the most modern magnetic brake systems.
        “They were lax, they were poor,” Larner said of the railroad company, which had actually made a profit in 1901, its first year in business.
        Dodge and the motorman in Car 1, the veteran Arthur Perkins, pulled on levers that applied the brakes to the steel wheels. Car 5, a closed car carrying about 55 passengers, also had a reputation for being hard to brake, according to the accident investigators.
        The motormen, said Larner, “pulled the lever and held on as hard as they could.” But, he said, with that system on a wet, rainy night, traveling too fast, “there’s no stopping; you’ve got to understand the physics.”
        An 11 percent grade on a hairpin turn, Larner said, “is one hell of a grade.”
        DEADLY CRASH
        As the two cars approached the curve above the hairpin where they left the tracks, Car 5 crashed into the rear of open sided Car 1 with its 75 passengers, sending both out of control.
        As Dodge explained before dying two days later, “The brakes would not work and I could not control the car.”
        Larner said Dodge tried to regain control by putting it in reverse, but that action blew the circuit breaker, extinguishing the lights in both cars.
        Though accounts of the day estimate the cars traveling at up to 70 mph as they approached the hairpin, Larner said that is improbable although it may have seemed that way in the darkness.
        When Car 1 left the rails and flopped on its side, passengers were thrown beneath it. Those who could or dared to, jumped from the cars before the crash.
        Newspaper stories credit 17-year-old William Berghoff with running back up the tracks to stop the next car. The members of the Vaudeville company performing that night, Patten and Perry, joined in the rescue effort.
        Electricity was restored an hour later, allowing a rescue car carrying medical personnel from Nathan Littauer Hospital to reach the scene.
        The Daily Leader, describing the accident scene, said, “The mental torture was something terrible, and to those who were penned up in the charnel place, with the dead underneath them and the wounded among them, with no lights to show them the awful state of affairs, and the shrieks and groans of the injured and the ominous silence of the people under the car and in the creek, it is something which no lifetime will ever make them forget.”
        On an inside page is the advertisement for the Mountain Lake Park program for the first week in July.
        The man who organized the Mountain Lake Railroad, silk salesman Samuel Elmer, died before the disaster. “The way I see it,” Larner said, “it was fortunate Elmer died before he saw this wreck destroy his railroad.”
        If the wreck did not destroy it, Betz said, the lightning strike that burned down the Mountain Lake Hotel in 1908 sent the resort into an irreversible slide.
        Larner’s first volume is available at Mysteries on Main Street in Johnstown, or from the Web site FJGRR.org.

        Sent from my iPhone



        Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out.



        --
        http://fjgrr. org
        http://ginosrailpag e.com
        http://ginostrolley page.com
        http://ginosmusicse rvice.com

      • Aaron Keller
        I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare time to help with planning. I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 6, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare time to help with planning.  I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.

          -Aaron

        • Dicarlo, Gino
          We should get together this date! Gino From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Snyder Sent: Monday, July 06,
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 6, 2009
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            We should get together this date!

             

            Gino

             

            From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Snyder
            Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:14 PM
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster

             




            Railfest is August 8 this year.  If we want to get together/do anything relating to that we need to get moving on it.  I'm willing to help out with arrangements at this end.

            Jerry

            --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...> wrote:


            From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...>
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:35 PM

            A trip up the Mountain Lake ROW would be awesome!

             

            Gino

            On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:

             

            Thanks Gino.  Seems like I just talked to Jim, this week.  If we do have a get together this summer a trip up the Mtn Lk rr might be able to be arranged.  Jim said the man in charge was more than willing and happy to accommodate him for a trip over the route.
             
            I'll be in Piseco Wednesday night for a talk on the FJ&G and its relation to Piseco.  Short talk.
             
            Paul
             


            To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
            From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
            Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:46:36 -0400
            Subject: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster

             

             

            RichText


            In 1902, Fourth of July revelers met disaster on railroad tracks

            Saturday, July 4, 2009

            By Jim McGuire (Contact)
            Gazette Reporter


            Error! Filename not specified.

            Wreckage lies on the tracks in the wake of the 1902 Mountain Lake Train wreck between Gloversville and Bleecker, which took the lives of 14 people.

            Text Size: A | A | A

            GLOVERSVILLE — The forest has encroached on what is now a jeep-track service road for the Gloversville Water Department, but photos of the fatal 1902 crash on the hairpin turn halfway up Bleecker Mountain leave no doubt where the railway car lay in the ditch.
            Given what happened there that Fourth of July, the serenity of the scene more than a century later evokes an eerie feeling at the spot where the two Mountain Lake Electric Railroad cars left the track, killing 14 and injuring 60.
            The rails were removed in 1918, but the railbed appears completely intact as it winds its way up the mountain to the site of the former Mountain Lake Park resort, where holiday revelers viewed the fireworks that evening before boarding the cars about 10 p.m.
            The crash has been immortalized in railroad lore and written about almost every anniversary. Fulton County Historian Peter Betz has written about it himself and keeps a thick file that includes a front-page account in The Gloversville Daily Leader. The headline declares: “Dying Motorman Makes Statement.” A subheadline reads: “Survivors Tell Thrilling Stories of their Experiences.”
            As much as Betz knows about how novice motorman William Dodge violated procedure by starting Car 5 down the hill only 500 feet behind Car 1, he defers on the subject to Gloversville native and author Paul Larner, whose second volume on the history of the FJ&G Railroad will include a chapter on the crash. It was the accident and the subsequent wave of lawsuits that bankrupted the Mountain Lake Railroad and led to its sale in 1904 to the FJ&G, which operated it until 1917 through its subsidiary, the Adirondack Lakes Traction Co.
            The Mountain Lake tracks began at North Main and State streets, allowing riders to disembark there from an FJ&G trolley and catch the ride to Mountain Lake. FJ&G later joined the lines, Larner said.
            Larner, who has copies of the state and local records from that period, said the resort at Mountain Lake as well as the railbed were sold in 1903 to Gloversville attorney Jeremiah Wood for what was described as “a nominal sum.” Wood did not buy the rails or any of the cars and railroad equipment, said Larner, who recently retired from a railroad career that began in his youth with the FJ&G and concluded with Amtrak.
            Larner said his second volume, like his first, “Our Railroad,” will be more of a community history than a book for train buffs. As in “Our Railroad,” which traces the FJ&G through 1894, Larner said the story of the Mountain Lake Electric Railroad involves many local people whose descendants remain in Fulton County.
            Going through the records, Larner said, “you start picking up the family names and who did what and when.”
            FAMILY TIES
            Those family connections surfaced immediately as he spoke of the group of investors who put up $60,000 in 1895 to start the venture that would include the railroad and resort. Another $20,000, assigned to a separate corporation, was raised to buy the land at the lake and build a three-story hotel, dance pavilion, shooting gallery and other facilities.
            Among those investors was James Washburn, great-grandfather of William, John and Elmer Washburn. James Washburn may not have boasted of his investment in the line, but it was passed down through the family that he was in the car due next to descend.
            James Washburn’s son was William Louis “Lou” Washburn, who founded Washburn’s Dairy and ice cream company. Two of his grandsons continue to run the North Main Street business.
            John Washburn, a Wells Fargo stockbroker, said he was only vaguely aware of his great-grandfather’ s activities involving the railroad. However, he said, there is a letter in which a Massachusetts man inquires of James Washburn, “How’s our investment going up there?”
            Just a couple of blocks from the dairy is the law office of Wood & Seward where Jeremiah Wood’s great-grandson, Jeremiah “Jay” Wood IV, keeps up the practice passed down in the family.
            Jay Wood said he knows his forebear was a big land speculator but he said he was unaware of the connection to the railroad and resort. However, he said, it does explain the roll of Mountain Lake railroad tickets he discovered in the family possessions.
            “I wondered what that was,” Wood said. It is also clear, Wood said, concurring with Larner about the local connections, “people don’t get far around here.”
            Larner has the accident records kept by the state Railroad Commission. The agency did a detailed study of the cars and tracks, calculating degrees of curves and grades, which at the hairpin exceeded 11 percent.
            It is evident, Larner said, that Dodge “was going too fast.” There was testimony that the Mountain Lake Railroad failed to equip its cars with the most modern magnetic brake systems.
            “They were lax, they were poor,” Larner said of the railroad company, which had actually made a profit in 1901, its first year in business.
            Dodge and the motorman in Car 1, the veteran Arthur Perkins, pulled on levers that applied the brakes to the steel wheels. Car 5, a closed car carrying about 55 passengers, also had a reputation for being hard to brake, according to the accident investigators.
            The motormen, said Larner, “pulled the lever and held on as hard as they could.” But, he said, with that system on a wet, rainy night, traveling too fast, “there’s no stopping; you’ve got to understand the physics.”
            An 11 percent grade on a hairpin turn, Larner said, “is one hell of a grade.”
            DEADLY CRASH
            As the two cars approached the curve above the hairpin where they left the tracks, Car 5 crashed into the rear of open sided Car 1 with its 75 passengers, sending both out of control.
            As Dodge explained before dying two days later, “The brakes would not work and I could not control the car.”
            Larner said Dodge tried to regain control by putting it in reverse, but that action blew the circuit breaker, extinguishing the lights in both cars.
            Though accounts of the day estimate the cars traveling at up to 70 mph as they approached the hairpin, Larner said that is improbable although it may have seemed that way in the darkness.
            When Car 1 left the rails and flopped on its side, passengers were thrown beneath it. Those who could or dared to, jumped from the cars before the crash.
            Newspaper stories credit 17-year-old William Berghoff with running back up the tracks to stop the next car. The members of the Vaudeville company performing that night, Patten and Perry, joined in the rescue effort.
            Electricity was restored an hour later, allowing a rescue car carrying medical personnel from Nathan Littauer Hospital to reach the scene.
            The Daily Leader, describing the accident scene, said, “The mental torture was something terrible, and to those who were penned up in the charnel place, with the dead underneath them and the wounded among them, with no lights to show them the awful state of affairs, and the shrieks and groans of the injured and the ominous silence of the people under the car and in the creek, it is something which no lifetime will ever make them forget.”
            On an inside page is the advertisement for the Mountain Lake Park program for the first week in July.
            The man who organized the Mountain Lake Railroad, silk salesman Samuel Elmer, died before the disaster. “The way I see it,” Larner said, “it was fortunate Elmer died before he saw this wreck destroy his railroad.”
            If the wreck did not destroy it, Betz said, the lightning strike that burned down the Mountain Lake Hotel in 1908 sent the resort into an irreversible slide.
            Larner’s first volume is available at Mysteries on Main Street in Johnstown, or from the Web site FJGRR.org.


            Sent from my iPhone

             

             


            Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out.




            --
            http://fjgrr. org
            http://ginosrailpag e.com
            http://ginostrolley page.com
            http://ginosmusicse rvice.com

             

          • Jerry Snyder
            Welcome back! ... From: Aaron Keller Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 6, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Welcome back!

              --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:

              From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...>
              Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM

              I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare time to help with planning.  I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.

              -Aaron


            • Paul Larner
              Jerry, I ll be at Railfest this year selling books but we will be glad to participate in the evening activities. PKL To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com From:
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 6, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Jerry, I'll be at Railfest this year selling books but we will be glad to participate in the evening activities.  PKL
                 

                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                From: handyman756@...
                Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:13:47 -0700
                Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster



                Railfest is August 8 this year.  If we want to get together/do anything relating to that we need to get moving on it.  I'm willing to help out with arrangements at this end.
                Jerry

                --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@ gmail.com> wrote:

                From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@ gmail.com>
                Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster
                To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:35 PM

                A trip up the Mountain Lake ROW would be awesome!

                Gino

                On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:


                Thanks Gino.  Seems like I just talked to Jim, this week.  If we do have a get together this summer a trip up the Mtn Lk rr might be able to be arranged.  Jim said the man in charge was more than willing and happy to accommodate him for a trip over the route.
                 
                I'll be in Piseco Wednesday night for a talk on the FJ&G and its relation to Piseco.  Short talk.
                 
                Paul
                 

                To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
                Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:46:36 -0400
                Subject: [FJGRailroad] Mountain Lake Disaster





                In 1902, Fourth of July revelers met disaster on railroad tracks
                Saturday, July 4, 2009
                By Jim McGuire (Contact)
                Gazette Reporter

                Photo of
                Wreckage lies on the tracks in the wake of the 1902 Mountain Lake Train wreck between Gloversville and Bleecker, which took the lives of 14 people.
                Text Size: A | A | A
                GLOVERSVILLE — The forest has encroached on what is now a jeep-track service road for the Gloversville Water Department, but photos of the fatal 1902 crash on the hairpin turn halfway up Bleecker Mountain leave no doubt where the railway car lay in the ditch.
                Given what happened there that Fourth of July, the serenity of the scene more than a century later evokes an eerie feeling at the spot where the two Mountain Lake Electric Railroad cars left the track, killing 14 and injuring 60.
                The rails were removed in 1918, but the railbed appears completely intact as it winds its way up the mountain to the site of the former Mountain Lake Park resort, where holiday revelers viewed the fireworks that evening before boarding the cars about 10 p.m.
                The crash has been immortalized in railroad lore and written about almost every anniversary. Fulton County Historian Peter Betz has written about it himself and keeps a thick file that includes a front-page account in The Gloversville Daily Leader. The headline declares: “Dying Motorman Makes Statement.” A subheadline reads: “Survivors Tell Thrilling Stories of their Experiences.”
                As much as Betz knows about how novice motorman William Dodge violated procedure by starting Car 5 down the hill only 500 feet behind Car 1, he defers on the subject to Gloversville native and author Paul Larner, whose second volume on the history of the FJ&G Railroad will include a chapter on the crash. It was the accident and the subsequent wave of lawsuits that bankrupted the Mountain Lake Railroad and led to its sale in 1904 to the FJ&G, which operated it until 1917 through its subsidiary, the Adirondack Lakes Traction Co.
                The Mountain Lake tracks began at North Main and State streets, allowing riders to disembark there from an FJ&G trolley and catch the ride to Mountain Lake. FJ&G later joined the lines, Larner said.
                Larner, who has copies of the state and local records from that period, said the resort at Mountain Lake as well as the railbed were sold in 1903 to Gloversville attorney Jeremiah Wood for what was described as “a nominal sum.” Wood did not buy the rails or any of the cars and railroad equipment, said Larner, who recently retired from a railroad career that began in his youth with the FJ&G and concluded with Amtrak.
                Larner said his second volume, like his first, “Our Railroad,” will be more of a community history than a book for train buffs. As in “Our Railroad,” which traces the FJ&G through 1894, Larner said the story of the Mountain Lake Electric Railroad involves many local people whose descendants remain in Fulton County.
                Going through the records, Larner said, “you start picking up the family names and who did what and when.”
                FAMILY TIES
                Those family connections surfaced immediately as he spoke of the group of investors who put up $60,000 in 1895 to start the venture that would include the railroad and resort. Another $20,000, assigned to a separate corporation, was raised to buy the land at the lake and build a three-story hotel, dance pavilion, shooting gallery and other facilities.
                Among those investors was James Washburn, great-grandfather of William, John and Elmer Washburn. James Washburn may not have boasted of his investment in the line, but it was passed down through the family that he was in the car due next to descend.
                James Washburn’s son was William Louis “Lou” Washburn, who founded Washburn’s Dairy and ice cream company. Two of his grandsons continue to run the North Main Street business.
                John Washburn, a Wells Fargo stockbroker, said he was only vaguely aware of his great-grandfather’ s activities involving the railroad. However, he said, there is a letter in which a Massachusetts man inquires of James Washburn, “How’s our investment going up there?”
                Just a couple of blocks from the dairy is the law office of Wood & Seward where Jeremiah Wood’s great-grandson, Jeremiah “Jay” Wood IV, keeps up the practice passed down in the family.
                Jay Wood said he knows his forebear was a big land speculator but he said he was unaware of the connection to the railroad and resort. However, he said, it does explain the roll of Mountain Lake railroad tickets he discovered in the family possessions.
                “I wondered what that was,” Wood said. It is also clear, Wood said, concurring with Larner about the local connections, “people don’t get far around here.”
                Larner has the accident records kept by the state Railroad Commission. The agency did a detailed study of the cars and tracks, calculating degrees of curves and grades, which at the hairpin exceeded 11 percent.
                It is evident, Larner said, that Dodge “was going too fast.” There was testimony that the Mountain Lake Railroad failed to equip its cars with the most modern magnetic brake systems.
                “They were lax, they were poor,” Larner said of the railroad company, which had actually made a profit in 1901, its first year in business.
                Dodge and the motorman in Car 1, the veteran Arthur Perkins, pulled on levers that applied the brakes to the steel wheels. Car 5, a closed car carrying about 55 passengers, also had a reputation for being hard to brake, according to the accident investigators.
                The motormen, said Larner, “pulled the lever and held on as hard as they could.” But, he said, with that system on a wet, rainy night, traveling too fast, “there’s no stopping; you’ve got to understand the physics.”
                An 11 percent grade on a hairpin turn, Larner said, “is one hell of a grade.”
                DEADLY CRASH
                As the two cars approached the curve above the hairpin where they left the tracks, Car 5 crashed into the rear of open sided Car 1 with its 75 passengers, sending both out of control.
                As Dodge explained before dying two days later, “The brakes would not work and I could not control the car.”
                Larner said Dodge tried to regain control by putting it in reverse, but that action blew the circuit breaker, extinguishing the lights in both cars.
                Though accounts of the day estimate the cars traveling at up to 70 mph as they approached the hairpin, Larner said that is improbable although it may have seemed that way in the darkness.
                When Car 1 left the rails and flopped on its side, passengers were thrown beneath it. Those who could or dared to, jumped from the cars before the crash.
                Newspaper stories credit 17-year-old William Berghoff with running back up the tracks to stop the next car. The members of the Vaudeville company performing that night, Patten and Perry, joined in the rescue effort.
                Electricity was restored an hour later, allowing a rescue car carrying medical personnel from Nathan Littauer Hospital to reach the scene.
                The Daily Leader, describing the accident scene, said, “The mental torture was something terrible, and to those who were penned up in the charnel place, with the dead underneath them and the wounded among them, with no lights to show them the awful state of affairs, and the shrieks and groans of the injured and the ominous silence of the people under the car and in the creek, it is something which no lifetime will ever make them forget.”
                On an inside page is the advertisement for the Mountain Lake Park program for the first week in July.
                The man who organized the Mountain Lake Railroad, silk salesman Samuel Elmer, died before the disaster. “The way I see it,” Larner said, “it was fortunate Elmer died before he saw this wreck destroy his railroad.”
                If the wreck did not destroy it, Betz said, the lightning strike that burned down the Mountain Lake Hotel in 1908 sent the resort into an irreversible slide.
                Larner’s first volume is available at Mysteries on Main Street in Johnstown, or from the Web site FJGRR.org.

                Sent from my iPhone



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              • johnnychristman
                It s nice to hear that you re back in the state Aaron :) I would very much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to meet all of you
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 8, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  It's nice to hear that you're back in the state Aaron :) I would very much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to meet all of you guys. Let me know!

                  John Christman

                  --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Welcome back!
                  >
                  > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...>
                  > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
                  > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare time to help with planning.  I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.
                  >
                  > -Aaron
                  >
                • Dicarlo, Gino
                  I think we should plan something. The Railfest day, although very close would be the best time! Paul will be tied up until 4, but perhaps we can arrange a
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 8, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment

                    I think we should plan something.  The Railfest day, although very close would be the best time!

                    Paul will be tied up until 4, but perhaps we can arrange a trip up to Mountain Lake after?  We also

                    still have the option of riding Gloversville Transit around the Gloversville Belt Line.  All that would

                    cost us is the local fare, which might be around $1.50. 

                     

                    Of course we can visit the Museum during the day.  There is a new exhibit chronicling  Fulton

                    County Baseball History and there is a new addition of Eber Davis' FJ&G Models on Display.  That

                    alone is worth the trip.  I could also rig up a slide show on the FJ&G if we can get a hold of a

                    projector to hook up to my laptop!  I also have scanned the archives of the Schenectady Railway

                    that I would love to share.  I got more trolley photos than the law allows!

                     

                    Why don't we get a head count of who might be able to visit on the 8th of August.  I hope it's not

                    too late for hotels, but I do see a new one open in Johnstown.  That may help.

                     

                    Of course, we can always finish up the evening at the RailYard.

                     

                    Let me know!

                     

                    Gino

                     

                    From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnnychristman
                    Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:10 AM
                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Railfest

                     




                    It's nice to hear that you're back in the state Aaron :) I would very much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to meet all of you guys. Let me know!

                    John Christman

                    --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > Welcome back!
                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...>
                    > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
                    > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare
                    time to help with planning.  I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.
                    >
                    > -Aaron
                    >

                  • odakyu2003
                    I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County? I d like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 8, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County?
                      I'd like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice time for me to change my plans.
                      Gordon Davis
                    • slamora1@nycap.rr.com
                      I m in Steve Lamora
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 8, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I'm in

                        Steve Lamora


                        ---- "Dicarlo wrote:
                        > I think we should plan something. The Railfest day, although very close
                        > would be the best time!
                        >
                        > Paul will be tied up until 4, but perhaps we can arrange a trip up to
                        > Mountain Lake after? We also
                        >
                        > still have the option of riding Gloversville Transit around the
                        > Gloversville Belt Line. All that would
                        >
                        > cost us is the local fare, which might be around $1.50.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Of course we can visit the Museum during the day. There is a new
                        > exhibit chronicling Fulton
                        >
                        > County Baseball History and there is a new addition of Eber Davis' FJ&G
                        > Models on Display. That
                        >
                        > alone is worth the trip. I could also rig up a slide show on the FJ&G
                        > if we can get a hold of a
                        >
                        > projector to hook up to my laptop! I also have scanned the archives of
                        > the Schenectady Railway
                        >
                        > that I would love to share. I got more trolley photos than the law
                        > allows!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Why don't we get a head count of who might be able to visit on the 8th
                        > of August. I hope it's not
                        >
                        > too late for hotels, but I do see a new one open in Johnstown. That may
                        > help.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Of course, we can always finish up the evening at the RailYard.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Let me know!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Gino
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of johnnychristman
                        > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:10 AM
                        > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Railfest
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > It's nice to hear that you're back in the state Aaron :) I would very
                        > much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to
                        > meet all of you guys. Let me know!
                        >
                        > John Christman
                        >
                        > --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:FJGRailroad%40yahoogroups.com> , Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Welcome back!
                        > >
                        > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...>
                        > > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
                        > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FJGRailroad%40yahoogroups.com>
                        >
                        > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no
                        > spare time to help with planning. I just moved back to the Albany area
                        > to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.
                        > >
                        > > -Aaron
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Aaron Keller
                        Thank you for the welcomes back. Please do not forget; at some point I want to see if this group is interested in seeking permission to get some of the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 8, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thank you for the welcomes back.

                          Please do not forget; at some point I want to see if this group is interested in seeking permission to get some of the remaining FJ&G signage fixed up, and then in actually doing the work to fix it up.  A few cement repairs could be done on three existing mileposts and they could all be repainted.

                          A small work party could be arranged by some of us who are in the area.

                          -Aaron

                        • andrewsfusco
                          Count me in for August 8. I d be willing to help Aaron s crew on the mile marker/whistle post work detail. ---Andy Fusco
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Count me in for August 8. I'd be willing to help Aaron's crew
                            on the mile marker/whistle post work detail. ---Andy Fusco



                            --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, <slamora1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm in
                            >
                            > Steve Lamora
                            >
                            >
                            > ---- "Dicarlo wrote:
                            > > I think we should plan something. The Railfest day, although very close
                            > > would be the best time!
                            > >
                            > > Paul will be tied up until 4, but perhaps we can arrange a trip up to
                            > > Mountain Lake after? We also
                            > >
                            > > still have the option of riding Gloversville Transit around the
                            > > Gloversville Belt Line. All that would
                            > >
                            > > cost us is the local fare, which might be around $1.50.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Of course we can visit the Museum during the day. There is a new
                            > > exhibit chronicling Fulton
                            > >
                            > > County Baseball History and there is a new addition of Eber Davis' FJ&G
                            > > Models on Display. That
                            > >
                            > > alone is worth the trip. I could also rig up a slide show on the FJ&G
                            > > if we can get a hold of a
                            > >
                            > > projector to hook up to my laptop! I also have scanned the archives of
                            > > the Schenectady Railway
                            > >
                            > > that I would love to share. I got more trolley photos than the law
                            > > allows!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Why don't we get a head count of who might be able to visit on the 8th
                            > > of August. I hope it's not
                            > >
                            > > too late for hotels, but I do see a new one open in Johnstown. That may
                            > > help.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Of course, we can always finish up the evening at the RailYard.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Let me know!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Gino
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                            > > On Behalf Of johnnychristman
                            > > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:10 AM
                            > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Railfest
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > It's nice to hear that you're back in the state Aaron :) I would very
                            > > much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to
                            > > meet all of you guys. Let me know!
                            > >
                            > > John Christman
                            > >
                            > > --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > <mailto:FJGRailroad%40yahoogroups.com> , Jerry Snyder <handyman756@>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Welcome back!
                            > > >
                            > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@>
                            > > > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
                            > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com <mailto:FJGRailroad%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > >
                            > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no
                            > > spare time to help with planning. I just moved back to the Albany area
                            > > to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.
                            > > >
                            > > > -Aaron
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Paul Larner
                            Hello Gordon, Yes, its an annual event. The Gloversville Chamber of Commerce promotes the city and rail trail with an annual festival titled Railfest. What we
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 10, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Gordon, 
                               
                              Yes, its an annual event. The Gloversville Chamber of Commerce promotes the city and rail trail with an annual festival titled Railfest.  What we FJ&G group members decided to do a few yars ago was coordinate our annual (now semi-annual) get together with the festival both to perhaps increase interest in the FJ&G and also, because we chose to hold our pressentation at the Fulton County Historical society museum, boost their attendance that day as well.  The last meeting at the Museum was very successful.
                               
                              That is the connection with railfest.  There really is none other than the how interested citizens were invited to participate in our public show and tell session.  In the previous years we were on either the weekend before or after Railfest.  Gino is correct, I will be at the Railfest promoting my history of the FJ&G, thus unable to participate in the day's events until after perjaps four p.m.
                               
                              All of the preceding get togethers have been excellent days spent touring, walking and show and tell, culminating with a group dinner at the Railyard restaurant in Gloversville.  There is a lot left to explore so this could turn into a great event this year too.
                               
                              The trip over the Mountain Lake route would be great opportunity to view the site and experience the topography of a major event in Fulton county railroad history, even if not related directly to the FJ&G.  The bus trip is another opportunity which, as a charter, could be expanded to revisit the entire FJ&G bus routes in Fulton and Montgomery county, i.e. the steam division and local routes converted from steam and trolley in 1930.  Plus there is always "show and tell" time where Q&A and sharing of our finds and treasures occurs.

                              PKL

                              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              From: gdavis4@...
                              Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:47:26 +0000
                              Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest



                              I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County?
                              I'd like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice time for me to change my plans.
                              Gordon Davis




                              Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Spread the word when you add celeb photos to your e-mails. Check it out.
                            • Paul Larner
                              Re reading Gordon s message I am inclined to agree that if this get together is possible this year, that is if enough of us choose to meet at Gloversville, it
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 10, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Re reading Gordon's message I am inclined to agree that if this get together is possible this year, that is if enough of us choose to meet at Gloversville, it might be better to allow a couple months notice.  We are a bit late for this summer in as much as most of us set our plans well before now.  How's late September or early October (foliage season)?  Also I will be able to make it.
                                 
                                Now, we have three volunteers to pull it together, Aaron, Jerry and John.  That's more than we've had in the past so can we assume a date will be set and an agenda that can be executed aranged?
                                 
                                PKL


                                To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                From: pklarner@...
                                Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:10:49 -0400
                                Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Railfest




                                Hello Gordon, 
                                 
                                Yes, its an annual event. The Gloversville Chamber of Commerce promotes the city and rail trail with an annual festival titled Railfest.  What we FJ&G group members decided to do a few yars ago was coordinate our annual (now semi-annual) get together with the festival both to perhaps increase interest in the FJ&G and also, because we chose to hold our pressentation at the Fulton County Historical society museum, boost their attendance that day as well.  The last meeting at the Museum was very successful.
                                 
                                That is the connection with railfest.  There really is none other than the how interested citizens were invited to participate in our public show and tell session.  In the previous years we were on either the weekend before or after Railfest.  Gino is correct, I will be at the Railfest promoting my history of the FJ&G, thus unable to participate in the day's events until after perjaps four p.m.
                                 
                                All of the preceding get togethers have been excellent days spent touring, walking and show and tell, culminating with a group dinner at the Railyard restaurant in Gloversville.  There is a lot left to explore so this could turn into a great event this year too.
                                 
                                The trip over the Mountain Lake route would be great opportunity to view the site and experience the topography of a major event in Fulton county railroad history, even if not related directly to the FJ&G.  The bus trip is another opportunity which, as a charter, could be expanded to revisit the entire FJ&G bus routes in Fulton and Montgomery county, i.e. the steam division and local routes converted from steam and trolley in 1930.  Plus there is always "show and tell" time where Q&A and sharing of our finds and treasures occurs.

                                PKL


                                To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                                From: gdavis4@twcny. rr.com
                                Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:47:26 +0000
                                Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest



                                I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County?
                                I'd like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice time for me to change my plans.
                                Gordon Davis




                                Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Spread the word when you add celeb photos to your e-mails. Check it out.




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                              • Gino's Railpage
                                September or October is a great idea Paul! Yeah, we need some time to warn our out of towners who make the trip! There s a good chance we won t over heat in
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 10, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  September or October is a great idea Paul!  Yeah, we need some time to warn our
                                  out of towners who make the trip!  There's a good chance we won't over heat in
                                  the fall also!
                                   
                                  We can also coordinate a trip up to Mountain Lake.  Not to mention, it would be
                                  a waste not to have you until after 4 pm!
                                   
                                  Gino

                                  On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:


                                  Re reading Gordon's message I am inclined to agree that if this get together is possible this year, that is if enough of us choose to meet at Gloversville, it might be better to allow a couple months notice.  We are a bit late for this summer in as much as most of us set our plans well before now.  How's late September or early October (foliage season)?  Also I will be able to make it.
                                   
                                  Now, we have three volunteers to pull it together, Aaron, Jerry and John.  That's more than we've had in the past so can we assume a date will be set and an agenda that can be executed aranged?
                                   
                                  PKL



                                  To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: pklarner@...
                                  Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:10:49 -0400
                                  Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Railfest




                                  Hello Gordon, 
                                   
                                  Yes, its an annual event. The Gloversville Chamber of Commerce promotes the city and rail trail with an annual festival titled Railfest.  What we FJ&G group members decided to do a few yars ago was coordinate our annual (now semi-annual) get together with the festival both to perhaps increase interest in the FJ&G and also, because we chose to hold our pressentation at the Fulton County Historical society museum, boost their attendance that day as well.  The last meeting at the Museum was very successful.
                                   
                                  That is the connection with railfest.  There really is none other than the how interested citizens were invited to participate in our public show and tell session.  In the previous years we were on either the weekend before or after Railfest.  Gino is correct, I will be at the Railfest promoting my history of the FJ&G, thus unable to participate in the day's events until after perjaps four p.m.
                                   
                                  All of the preceding get togethers have been excellent days spent touring, walking and show and tell, culminating with a group dinner at the Railyard restaurant in Gloversville.  There is a lot left to explore so this could turn into a great event this year too.
                                   
                                  The trip over the Mountain Lake route would be great opportunity to view the site and experience the topography of a major event in Fulton county railroad history, even if not related directly to the FJ&G.  The bus trip is another opportunity which, as a charter, could be expanded to revisit the entire FJ&G bus routes in Fulton and Montgomery county, i.e. the steam division and local routes converted from steam and trolley in 1930.  Plus there is always "show and tell" time where Q&A and sharing of our finds and treasures occurs.

                                  PKL


                                  To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: gdavis4@...
                                  Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:47:26 +0000
                                  Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest



                                  I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County?
                                  I'd like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice time for me to change my plans.
                                  Gordon Davis




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                                • joseph Klapkowski
                                  I am in and as long as I am looking around for a job I can help with the arrangements. To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com From: pklarner@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 10
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 10, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I am in and as long as I am looking around for a job I can help with the arrangements.
                                     

                                    To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: pklarner@...
                                    Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:20:28 -0400
                                    Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Railfest



                                    Re reading Gordon's message I am inclined to agree that if this get together is possible this year, that is if enough of us choose to meet at Gloversville, it might be better to allow a couple months notice.  We are a bit late for this summer in as much as most of us set our plans well before now.  How's late September or early October (foliage season)?  Also I will be able to make it.
                                     
                                    Now, we have three volunteers to pull it together, Aaron, Jerry and John.  That's more than we've had in the past so can we assume a date will be set and an agenda that can be executed aranged?
                                     
                                    PKL


                                    To: fjgrailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                                    From: pklarner@hotmail. com
                                    Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:10:49 -0400
                                    Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Railfest




                                    Hello Gordon, 
                                     
                                    Yes, its an annual event. The Gloversville Chamber of Commerce promotes the city and rail trail with an annual festival titled Railfest.  What we FJ&G group members decided to do a few yars ago was coordinate our annual (now semi-annual) get together with the festival both to perhaps increase interest in the FJ&G and also, because we chose to hold our pressentation at the Fulton County Historical society museum, boost their attendance that day as well.  The last meeting at the Museum was very successful.
                                     
                                    That is the connection with railfest.  There really is none other than the how interested citizens were invited to participate in our public show and tell session.  In the previous years we were on either the weekend before or after Railfest.  Gino is correct, I will be at the Railfest promoting my history of the FJ&G, thus unable to participate in the day's events until after perjaps four p.m.
                                     
                                    All of the preceding get togethers have been excellent days spent touring, walking and show and tell, culminating with a group dinner at the Railyard restaurant in Gloversville.  There is a lot left to explore so this could turn into a great event this year too.
                                     
                                    The trip over the Mountain Lake route would be great opportunity to view the site and experience the topography of a major event in Fulton county railroad history, even if not related directly to the FJ&G.  The bus trip is another opportunity which, as a charter, could be expanded to revisit the entire FJ&G bus routes in Fulton and Montgomery county, i.e. the steam division and local routes converted from steam and trolley in 1930.  Plus there is always "show and tell" time where Q&A and sharing of our finds and treasures occurs.

                                    PKL


                                    To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                                    From: gdavis4@twcny. rr.com
                                    Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:47:26 +0000
                                    Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest



                                    I must be somewhat out of the loop re; Railfest. Is this some annual event in Fulton County?
                                    I'd like to participate, however it seems a bit short on notice time for me to change my plans.
                                    Gordon Davis




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                                  • Skip Barber
                                    Gino and all,   Hopefully things will firm up soon.  I need to plan my trip up from Virginia.   Skip ... From: Dicarlo, Gino Subject:
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 11, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Gino and all,
                                       
                                      Hopefully things will firm up soon.  I need to plan my trip up from Virginia.
                                       
                                      Skip


                                      --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Dicarlo, Gino <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:

                                      From: Dicarlo, Gino <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                                      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Re: Railfest
                                      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 5:16 PM



                                      I think we should plan something.  The Railfest day, although very close would be the best time!

                                      Paul will be tied up until 4, but perhaps we can arrange a trip up to Mountain Lake after?  We also

                                      still have the option of riding Gloversville Transit around the Gloversville Belt Line.  All that would

                                      cost us is the local fare, which might be around $1.50. 

                                       

                                      Of course we can visit the Museum during the day.  There is a new exhibit chronicling  Fulton

                                      County Baseball History and there is a new addition of Eber Davis' FJ&G Models on Display.  That

                                      alone is worth the trip.  I could also rig up a slide show on the FJ&G if we can get a hold of a

                                      projector to hook up to my laptop!  I also have scanned the archives of the Schenectady Railway

                                      that I would love to share.  I got more trolley photos than the law allows!

                                       

                                      Why don't we get a head count of who might be able to visit on the 8th of August.  I hope it's not

                                      too late for hotels, but I do see a new one open in Johnstown.  That may help.

                                       

                                      Of course, we can always finish up the evening at the RailYard.

                                       

                                      Let me know!

                                       

                                      Gino

                                       

                                      From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of johnnychristman
                                      Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:10 AM
                                      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Railfest

                                       




                                      It's nice to hear that you're back in the state Aaron :) I would very much like to help with any railfest prep, it would give me a chance to meet all of you guys. Let me know!

                                      John Christman

                                      --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Welcome back!
                                      >
                                      > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > From: Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...>
                                      > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Railfest
                                      > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:29 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I am once again in town and willing to attend; however, I have no spare time to help with planning.  I just moved back to the Albany area to accept a new job and to begin examining graduate programs.
                                      >
                                      > -Aaron
                                      >




                                    • Glenn J. Williams
                                      ... Family obligations will keep me tied up until just before Labour Day, so Paul s suggestion of late September or early October is fine with me. Glenn
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 14, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Re reading Gordon's message I am inclined to agree that if this get together is possible this year, that is if enough of us choose to meet at Gloversville, it might be better to allow a couple months notice. We are a bit late for this summer in as much as most of us set our plans well before now. How's late September or early October (foliage season)? Also I will be able to make it.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Now, we have three volunteers to pull it together, Aaron, Jerry and John. That's more than we've had in the past so can we assume a date will be set and an agenda that can be executed aranged?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > PKL

                                        Family obligations will keep me tied up until just before Labour Day, so Paul's suggestion of late September or early October is fine with me.

                                        Glenn
                                        Penacook, NH
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