Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [FJGRailroad] From The Archives - Give me a date

Expand Messages
  • Paul Larner
    Joe and Gino, The money was called incentive per diem (IPD). I was doing car service during some of those years. The railroad realizing they were being
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 23, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Joe and Gino,  The money was called incentive per diem (IPD).  I was doing car service during some of those years.  The railroad realizing they were being taken to the cleaners in per diem charges, that is the amount paid per day (originally and hourly after some date back in the sixties) by the holding railroad for the time the car is on their line, paid to non railroad (bogus) businesses.  IPD was established to assist in solving the shortage of good box cars.   I wrote something on this a long while ago but to understand this better I think anyone interested will find plenty on google using the term "incentive per diem."  You can also look up the "car service rules" and "car hire rules" during that heady period of easy money for high earning professionals with cash to spare.  (Kind of like buying ethanol stocks three years ago and holding them. Does derivatives ring a bell?)
       
      Those covered hoppers used by Omnicology were more likely than not, private cars.  The railroads  pay only a rate per mile run for privately owned cars, whereas for railroad owned cars  the handling carrier pays "time/mileage charges,"  so much per mile plus so much per hour (hence the need for a qualifying RR reporting mark to entitle one for IPD).  While those cars sat at Omnicology they cost the rr nothing.  They were likely leased to Omnicology who paid a term lease depending on their quality and need.  Some private cars are trip leased others are company leased for terms.  Those time mileage expenses are figured into the freight rate, as should be the first free days of time after placement for rr owned cars, thus passing the cost on to the shipper/receiver then ultimately the customer.  The more I write on this the more I recall.  So I'll stop.  It can all be looked up if you care.
       
      The other factor mentioned but not related to IPD is the change in the car hire rules to hourly accounting from daily accounting.  That eliminated the daily race to the 23:00 interchange, a fundamental factor in freight train dispatching a generation ago.  Understanding these chages will help understand part of the changes in the railroad industry through the past fifty years.  And of course the Staggers Act (railroad deregulation) maybe more than anything else permitted changes in the railroad business model.
       
      Many interesting (or boring  by perspective) books available on the transition years in the industry.
       
      PKL

      To: fjgrailroad@yahoogroups.com
      From: riverlinejoe@...
      Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 01:04:32 +0000
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] From The Archives - Give me a date

      Gino,
      The way I understood the deal to work (because I set up a similar transaction for an investor once upon a time) the key is the shortline reporting marks pre 197? because they are grandfathered into a different rate division than newer short lines or the bigger railroads. I actaully hired an appraiser who opined that two sets of cars that were identical in age, one with shortline reporting marks and one with non-qualifying shortline reporting marks, the shortline cars were more valuable because of the higher rate division. One other very important aspect of the deal was that you could designate the cars as floating or roaming meaning that they could be loaded by anyone anywhere and did not have to be returned to thier home road. I have forgotten more about the details than I have put down here. On the M&NJ when the cars began to return "Home" because of the eceonomic downturn, Pete Rasmussen (President of the M&NJ) told me that they literally had to go out with chainsaws and cut back the ROW that had not seen a train in twenty plus years. This even though he did not actualluy own the cars. 
       
       The actual owner of much (but I am not sure all) of the equipment was a gentleman down south who owned the Louisiana Midland (that is why the LOAM spreader showed up on the FJ&G). I do not know the exact affiliation but there was one.
       

      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
      Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:39:47 -0400
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] From The Archives - Give me a date

      I meant that there were Delaware Otsego cars on the line.  Didn't they own
      those cars or were they the same deal as the PC cars which were kind of
      rented by the FJG?DO, right?
       
      Gino

      On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:19 PM, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      He means non-Delaware Otsego cars.  In other words, all the cars that were NOT owned by the DO were taken off the line the on date of the last run, Nov. 26th, 1984.  Privately owned freight cars, such as the ones at Omnicology, incur fees when they're on someone else's line.  Getting those cars off the line meant that the railroad could just sit in abandonment.

      I wonder how much they were paying in property taxes.  I was told in the mid 1990s that DO still owned property in the Gloversville and Mayfield area, and possibly in Johnstown; a couple isolated pockets as it was described to me.  That came straight from the tax people in Cooperstown with whom I spoke one day.

      -Aaron



      From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@ gmail.com>
      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 5:11:17 PM
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] From The Archives - Give me a date

      When you say no more DO cars, what do you mean?  There were the blue-DO
      boxcars, but that's not what you're saying, right?
       
      Gino

      On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:

      Just got off the phone with the other principal of the last train date.  It is confirmed the date was November 26, 1984 when the photos were taken.  Also after the 26th there were no none Delaware Otsego cars remaining on the former FJ&G line.
       
      Further:  The last two revenue cars carried over the line were covered hoppers, inbound to Coleco, June 5, 1984.  Belief is the cars at Omnicology, being private cars, had been on line for a long while.  Stilll not known if they were loaded or empty when taken down on the 26th.
       
      So Joe, if you haven't already applied the paint, and since you really want to cover the actual and not the official dates. they are 8/24/70 to 11/26/84.

      From: pklarner@hotmail. com
      Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:41:54 -0400

      Subject: [FJGRailroad] From The Archives - Give me a date

      Am cleaning up and putting away information from Book 1 and cross checking to make sure I have everything entered before putting the papers in storage.  What do I find but an overlooked newspaper entry, buried on a page with an entry that was noticed, which gives the date and locomotive id for the very first train to "darken the rails of the Fonda, Johnstown and Gloversville Railroad."
       
      From the Mohawk Vally Democrat of August 27, 1870: GRAND EXCURSION. - An excursion train, drawn by Engine "36" Larry Murry, Engineer, passed over the Fonda, Johnstown & Gloversville Railroad to its terminus, on Wednesday afternoon.  Engine "36," let it be recorded, was the first to darken the rails of the new road.  Teamsters stood amazed, and like Othello, "thought their occupation gone." 
       
      Wednesday of that week was August 24, 1870.
       
      PKL 
       
       



      Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for HotmailĀ®. See how.



      HotmailĀ® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more.










      --
      http://fjgrr. org
      http://ginosrailpag e.com
      http://ginostrolley page.com
      http://ginosmusicse rvice.com



      Get quick access to your favorite MSN content with Internet Explorer 8. Download FREE now!




      HotmailĀ® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more.
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.