Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Engine Roster

Expand Messages
  • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
    A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had and he wanted me to check it. I m posting his so that Paul Larner and Aaron Keller could
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 2, 1999
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
      and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
      and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
      Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
      incomplete...

      here it is...

      1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
      ren."David A.Wells"
      2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
      2nd.2 ??
      1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
      2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
      1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
      2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
      2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
      2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
      1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
      2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
      1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
      1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
      10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
      1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
      Manhattan Ry.111
      2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
      12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
      13 ??
      14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
      Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
      0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
      0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
      0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
    • Aaron Keller
      Gino, I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 1999
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        Gino,

        I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
        correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
        most common rosters are inaccurate.

        Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
        unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
        college.

        -Aaron

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
        To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
        Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
        Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster


        >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
        >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
        >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
        >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
        >incomplete...
        >
        >here it is...
        >
        >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
        > ren."David A.Wells"
        >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
        >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
        >2nd.2 ??
        >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
        >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
        >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
        >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
        >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
        >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
        >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
        >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
        >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
        >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
        >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
        >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
        >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
        >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
        >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
        >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
        >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
        > Manhattan Ry.111
        >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
        >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
        >13 ??
        >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
        > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
        >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
        >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
        >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
      • Paul Charland
        Aaron, Get your priorities right! Do you really need to be in college!!! Paul PS: I am too!
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 1999
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          Aaron,

          Get your priorities right! Do you really need to be in college!!!

          Paul

          PS: I am too!

          Aaron Keller wrote:

          > From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
          >
          > Gino,
          >
          > I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
          > correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
          > most common rosters are inaccurate.
          >
          > Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
          > unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
          > college.
          >
          > -Aaron
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
          > To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
          > Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
          > Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
          >
          > >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
          > >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
          > >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
          > >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
          > >incomplete...
          > >
          > >here it is...
          > >
          > >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
          > > ren."David A.Wells"
          > >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
          > >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
          > >2nd.2 ??
          > >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
          > >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
          > >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
          > >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
          > >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
          > >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
          > >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
          > >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
          > >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
          > >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
          > >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
          > >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
          > >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
          > >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
          > >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
          > >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
          > >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
          > > Manhattan Ry.111
          > >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
          > >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
          > >13 ??
          > >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
          > > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
          > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
          > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
          > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
          >
          > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
          > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
        • paul larner
          Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving another
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 1999
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
            week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving another
            locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't indicate a
            locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We do
            know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
            shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
            especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
            other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester bell
            on the Pioneer.

            The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
            engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the source
            and other material acquired at the same time ???.

            Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in the
            first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
            numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March 30,
            1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No. 5
            was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the electric
            road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase of
            the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4, 11
            in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co. I
            have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
            built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
            seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the company
            re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile these
            dates with the dates given in the roster.

            The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in fiscal
            6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The FJ&G
            fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
            over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
            Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record of
            when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
            1897.

            The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
            Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3 and 4
            were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is reference
            to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.

            I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
            consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info today.

            Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
            FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
            FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
            FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
            FY 1874 3 engines

            The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
            freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
            undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad, which
            wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their own.
            They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
            explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
            didn't vary.

            During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of contract
            work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives which
            were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own locomotives,
            so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New cabs,
            tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did it
            for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin that
            resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
            domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
            extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.

            Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and won't
            answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working the
            1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early eighties
            right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
            much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm afraid
            the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.

            Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were the
            directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was done
            in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does anyone
            know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period appear
            to be in the couty files, not state.

            Now does this get another discussion going?

            I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth, however if
            someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.

            Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the group
            and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's lying
            dormant.

            PKL


            >From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
            >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
            >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
            >Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
            >
            >Gino,
            >
            >I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
            >correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
            >most common rosters are inaccurate.
            >
            >Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
            >unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
            >college.
            >
            >-Aaron
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
            >To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
            >Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
            >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
            >
            >
            > >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
            > >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
            > >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
            > >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
            > >incomplete...
            > >
            > >here it is...
            > >
            > >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
            > > ren."David A.Wells"
            > >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
            > >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
            > >2nd.2 ??
            > >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
            > >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
            > >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
            > >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
            > >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
            > >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
            > >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
            > >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
            > >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
            > >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
            > >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
            > >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
            > >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
            > >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
            > >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
            > >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
            > >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
            > > Manhattan Ry.111
            > >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
            > >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
            > >13 ??
            > >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
            > > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
            > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
            > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
            > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
            >http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
            ><< text3.html >>
          • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
            Thanks for all the info Paul! Gino
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 3, 1999
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks for all the info Paul!

              Gino

              ----------
              >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
              >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
              >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
              >

              > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
              >
              > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
              > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving another
              > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't indicate a
              > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We do
              > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
              > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
              > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
              > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester bell
              > on the Pioneer.
              >
              > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
              > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the source
              > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
              >
              > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in the
              > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
              > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March 30,
              > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No. 5
              > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the electric
              > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase of
              > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4, 11
              > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co. I
              > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
              > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
              > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the company
              > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile these
              > dates with the dates given in the roster.
              >
              > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in fiscal
              > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The FJ&G
              > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
              > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
              > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record of
              > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
              > 1897.
              >
              > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
              > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3 and 4
              > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is reference
              > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
              >
              > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
              > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info today.
              >
              > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
              > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
              > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
              > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
              > FY 1874 3 engines
              >
              > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
              > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
              > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad, which
              > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their own.
              > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
              > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
              > didn't vary.
              >
              > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of contract
              > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives which
              > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own locomotives,
              > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New cabs,
              > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did it
              > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin that
              > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
              > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
              > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
              >
              > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and won't
              > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working the
              > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early eighties
              > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
              > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm afraid
              > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
              >
              > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were the
              > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was done
              > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does anyone
              > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period appear
              > to be in the couty files, not state.
              >
              > Now does this get another discussion going?
              >
              > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth, however if
              > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
              >
              > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the group
              > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's lying
              > dormant.
              >
              > PKL
              >
              >
              >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
              >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
              >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
              >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
              >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
              >>
              >>Gino,
              >>
              >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
              >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
              >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
              >>
              >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
              >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
              >>college.
              >>
              >>-Aaron
              >>
              >>-----Original Message-----
              >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
              >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
              >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
              >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
              >>
              >>
              >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
              >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
              >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
              >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
              >> >incomplete...
              >> >
              >> >here it is...
              >> >
              >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
              >> > ren."David A.Wells"
              >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
              >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
              >> >2nd.2 ??
              >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
              >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
              >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
              >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
              >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
              >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
              >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
              >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
              >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
              >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
              >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
              >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
              >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
              >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
              >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
              >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
              >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
              >> > Manhattan Ry.111
              >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
              >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
              >> >13 ??
              >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
              >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
              >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
              >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
              >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
              >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
              >><< text3.html >>
              >
              > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
              > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
              >
            • paul larner
              Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group? Walt
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 3, 1999
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
                information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
                Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
                other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
                archives at the NYS Library.

                PKL


                >From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                >Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
                >
                >Thanks for all the info Paul!
                >
                >Gino
                >
                >----------
                > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                > >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
                > >
                >
                > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                > >
                > > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
                > > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
                >another
                > > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
                >indicate a
                > > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
                >do
                > > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
                > > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
                > > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
                > > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
                >bell
                > > on the Pioneer.
                > >
                > > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
                > > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
                >source
                > > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
                > >
                > > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
                >the
                > > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
                > > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
                >30,
                > > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
                >5
                > > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
                >electric
                > > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
                >of
                > > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
                >11
                > > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
                >I
                > > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
                > > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
                > > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
                >company
                > > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
                >these
                > > dates with the dates given in the roster.
                > >
                > > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
                >fiscal
                > > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
                >FJ&G
                > > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
                > > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
                > > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
                >of
                > > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
                > > 1897.
                > >
                > > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
                > > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
                >and 4
                > > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
                >reference
                > > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
                > >
                > > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
                > > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
                >today.
                > >
                > > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
                > > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
                > > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
                > > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
                > > FY 1874 3 engines
                > >
                > > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
                > > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
                > > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
                >which
                > > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
                >own.
                > > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
                > > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
                > > didn't vary.
                > >
                > > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
                >contract
                > > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
                >which
                > > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
                >locomotives,
                > > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
                >cabs,
                > > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
                >it
                > > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
                >that
                > > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
                > > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
                > > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
                > >
                > > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
                >won't
                > > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
                >the
                > > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
                >eighties
                > > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
                > > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
                >afraid
                > > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
                > >
                > > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
                >the
                > > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
                >done
                > > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
                >anyone
                > > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
                >appear
                > > to be in the couty files, not state.
                > >
                > > Now does this get another discussion going?
                > >
                > > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
                >however if
                > > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
                > >
                > > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
                >group
                > > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
                >lying
                > > dormant.
                > >
                > > PKL
                > >
                > >
                > >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
                > >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                > >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                > >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                > >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
                > >>
                > >>Gino,
                > >>
                > >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
                >is
                > >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
                >hear,
                > >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
                > >>
                > >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
                > >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
                > >>college.
                > >>
                > >>-Aaron
                > >>
                > >>-----Original Message-----
                > >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
                > >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                > >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
                > >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
                > >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
                > >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
                > >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
                > >> >incomplete...
                > >> >
                > >> >here it is...
                > >> >
                > >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
                > >> > ren."David A.Wells"
                > >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                > >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
                > >> >2nd.2 ??
                > >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
                > >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                > >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
                > >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
                > >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                > >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
                > >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                > >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
                > >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
                > >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
                > >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
                > >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                > >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
                > >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                > >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
                > >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
                > >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
                > >> > Manhattan Ry.111
                > >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
                > >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
                > >> >13 ??
                > >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
                > >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
                > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
                > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
                > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                > >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                > >><< text3.html >>
                > >
                > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                > >
                >
                >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                >Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                >http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                ><< text3.html >>
              • Paul Charland
                Hi Gino, Walt also has all the articles ever published in the railroad magazines over the years. It would be nice if they could be posted to the group. Paul
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 3, 1999
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Gino,

                  Walt also has all the articles ever published in the railroad magazines over the
                  years. It would be nice if they could be posted to the group.

                  Paul

                  paul larner wrote:

                  > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                  >
                  > Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
                  > information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
                  > Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
                  > other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
                  > archives at the NYS Library.
                  >
                  > PKL
                  >
                  > >From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                  > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                  > >Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
                  > >
                  > >Thanks for all the info Paul!
                  > >
                  > >Gino
                  > >
                  > >----------
                  > > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                  > > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                  > > >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                  > > >
                  > > > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
                  > > > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
                  > >another
                  > > > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
                  > >indicate a
                  > > > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
                  > >do
                  > > > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
                  > > > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
                  > > > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
                  > > > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
                  > >bell
                  > > > on the Pioneer.
                  > > >
                  > > > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
                  > > > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
                  > >source
                  > > > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
                  > > >
                  > > > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
                  > >the
                  > > > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
                  > > > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
                  > >30,
                  > > > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
                  > >5
                  > > > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
                  > >electric
                  > > > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
                  > >of
                  > > > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
                  > >11
                  > > > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
                  > >I
                  > > > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
                  > > > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
                  > > > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
                  > >company
                  > > > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
                  > >these
                  > > > dates with the dates given in the roster.
                  > > >
                  > > > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
                  > >fiscal
                  > > > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
                  > >FJ&G
                  > > > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
                  > > > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
                  > > > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
                  > >of
                  > > > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
                  > > > 1897.
                  > > >
                  > > > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
                  > > > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
                  > >and 4
                  > > > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
                  > >reference
                  > > > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
                  > > >
                  > > > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
                  > > > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
                  > >today.
                  > > >
                  > > > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
                  > > > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
                  > > > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
                  > > > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
                  > > > FY 1874 3 engines
                  > > >
                  > > > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
                  > > > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
                  > > > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
                  > >which
                  > > > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
                  > >own.
                  > > > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
                  > > > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
                  > > > didn't vary.
                  > > >
                  > > > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
                  > >contract
                  > > > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
                  > >which
                  > > > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
                  > >locomotives,
                  > > > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
                  > >cabs,
                  > > > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
                  > >it
                  > > > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
                  > >that
                  > > > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
                  > > > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
                  > > > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
                  > >won't
                  > > > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
                  > >the
                  > > > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
                  > >eighties
                  > > > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
                  > > > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
                  > >afraid
                  > > > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
                  > > >
                  > > > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
                  > >the
                  > > > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
                  > >done
                  > > > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
                  > >anyone
                  > > > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
                  > >appear
                  > > > to be in the couty files, not state.
                  > > >
                  > > > Now does this get another discussion going?
                  > > >
                  > > > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
                  > >however if
                  > > > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
                  > > >
                  > > > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
                  > >group
                  > > > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
                  > >lying
                  > > > dormant.
                  > > >
                  > > > PKL
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
                  > > >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                  > > >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                  > > >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                  > > >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
                  > > >>
                  > > >>Gino,
                  > > >>
                  > > >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
                  > >is
                  > > >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
                  > >hear,
                  > > >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
                  > > >>
                  > > >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
                  > > >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
                  > > >>college.
                  > > >>
                  > > >>-Aaron
                  > > >>
                  > > >>-----Original Message-----
                  > > >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
                  > > >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                  > > >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
                  > > >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
                  > > >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
                  > > >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
                  > > >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
                  > > >> >incomplete...
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >here it is...
                  > > >> >
                  > > >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
                  > > >> > ren."David A.Wells"
                  > > >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                  > > >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
                  > > >> >2nd.2 ??
                  > > >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
                  > > >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                  > > >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
                  > > >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
                  > > >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                  > > >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
                  > > >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                  > > >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
                  > > >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
                  > > >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
                  > > >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
                  > > >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                  > > >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
                  > > >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                  > > >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
                  > > >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
                  > > >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
                  > > >> > Manhattan Ry.111
                  > > >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
                  > > >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
                  > > >> >13 ??
                  > > >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
                  > > >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
                  > > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
                  > > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
                  > > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > > >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  > > >><< text3.html >>
                  > > >
                  > > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > >http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                  > ><< text3.html >>
                  >
                  > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                  > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
                  Paul, Does Walt have an e-mail address, or can he be reached only by mail? Gino ... the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 4, 1999
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Paul,

                    Does Walt have an e-mail address, or can he be reached only by mail?

                    Gino


                    ----------
                    >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                    >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                    >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 1999, 9:38 PM
                    >

                    > From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                    >
                    > Hi Gino,
                    >
                    > Walt also has all the articles ever published in the railroad magazines over
                    the
                    > years. It would be nice if they could be posted to the group.
                    >
                    > Paul
                    >
                    > paul larner wrote:
                    >
                    >> From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                    >>
                    >> Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
                    >> information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
                    >> Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
                    >> other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
                    >> archives at the NYS Library.
                    >>
                    >> PKL
                    >>
                    >> >From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                    >> >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >> >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >> >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                    >> >Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
                    >> >
                    >> >Thanks for all the info Paul!
                    >> >
                    >> >Gino
                    >> >
                    >> >----------
                    >> > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                    >> > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >> > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                    >> > >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
                    >> > > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
                    >> >another
                    >> > > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
                    >> >indicate a
                    >> > > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
                    >> >do
                    >> > > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
                    >> > > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
                    >> > > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
                    >> > > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
                    >> >bell
                    >> > > on the Pioneer.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
                    >> > > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
                    >> >source
                    >> > > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
                    >> >the
                    >> > > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
                    >> > > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
                    >> >30,
                    >> > > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
                    >> >5
                    >> > > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
                    >> >electric
                    >> > > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
                    >> >of
                    >> > > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
                    >> >11
                    >> > > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
                    >> >I
                    >> > > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
                    >> > > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
                    >> > > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
                    >> >company
                    >> > > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
                    >> >these
                    >> > > dates with the dates given in the roster.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
                    >> >fiscal
                    >> > > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
                    >> >FJ&G
                    >> > > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
                    >> > > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
                    >> > > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
                    >> >of
                    >> > > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
                    >> > > 1897.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
                    >> > > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
                    >> >and 4
                    >> > > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
                    >> >reference
                    >> > > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
                    >> > > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
                    >> >today.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
                    >> > > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
                    >> > > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
                    >> > > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
                    >> > > FY 1874 3 engines
                    >> > >
                    >> > > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
                    >> > > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
                    >> > > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
                    >> >which
                    >> > > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
                    >> >own.
                    >> > > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
                    >> > > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
                    >> > > didn't vary.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
                    >> >contract
                    >> > > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
                    >> >which
                    >> > > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
                    >> >locomotives,
                    >> > > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
                    >> >cabs,
                    >> > > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
                    >> >it
                    >> > > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
                    >> >that
                    >> > > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
                    >> > > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
                    >> > > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
                    >> >won't
                    >> > > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
                    >> >the
                    >> > > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
                    >> >eighties
                    >> > > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
                    >> > > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
                    >> >afraid
                    >> > > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
                    >> >the
                    >> > > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
                    >> >done
                    >> > > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
                    >> >anyone
                    >> > > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
                    >> >appear
                    >> > > to be in the couty files, not state.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Now does this get another discussion going?
                    >> > >
                    >> > > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
                    >> >however if
                    >> > > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
                    >> >group
                    >> > > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
                    >> >lying
                    >> > > dormant.
                    >> > >
                    >> > > PKL
                    >> > >
                    >> > >
                    >> > >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
                    >> > >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                    >> > >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                    >> > >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                    >> > >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>Gino,
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
                    >> >is
                    >> > >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
                    >> >hear,
                    >> > >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
                    >> > >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
                    >> > >>college.
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>-Aaron
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>-----Original Message-----
                    >> > >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
                    >> > >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                    >> > >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
                    >> > >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
                    >> > >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
                    >> > >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
                    >> > >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
                    >> > >> >incomplete...
                    >> > >> >
                    >> > >> >here it is...
                    >> > >> >
                    >> > >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
                    >> > >> > ren."David A.Wells"
                    >> > >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                    >> > >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
                    >> > >> >2nd.2 ??
                    >> > >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
                    >> > >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                    >> > >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
                    >> > >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
                    >> > >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                    >> > >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
                    >> > >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                    >> > >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
                    >> > >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
                    >> > >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
                    >> > >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
                    >> > >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                    >> > >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
                    >> > >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                    >> > >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
                    >> > >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
                    >> > >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
                    >> > >> > Manhattan Ry.111
                    >> > >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
                    >> > >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
                    >> > >> >13 ??
                    >> > >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
                    >> > >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
                    >> > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
                    >> > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
                    >> > >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>
                    >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >> > >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    >> > >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >> > >><< text3.html >>
                    >> > >
                    >> > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    >> > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >> > >
                    >> >
                    >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >> >Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    >> >http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >> ><< text3.html >>
                    >>
                    >> > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    >> http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >
                    > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                    > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                    >
                  • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
                    Paul, I haven t heard a response from him. I m just trying to get some discussions going on the list. Especially yours and Aarons because you guys don t
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 4, 1999
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Paul,

                      I haven't heard a response from him. I'm just trying to get some
                      discussions going on the list. Especially yours and Aarons because
                      you guys don't skimp on the details. I've asked him to join the list
                      but still no reply...

                      Gino


                      ----------
                      >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                      >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 1999, 7:51 PM
                      >

                      > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      >
                      > Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
                      > information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
                      > Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
                      > other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
                      > archives at the NYS Library.
                      >
                      > PKL
                      >
                      >
                      >>From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                      >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      >>To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                      >>Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
                      >>
                      >>Thanks for all the info Paul!
                      >>
                      >>Gino
                      >>
                      >>----------
                      >> >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      >> >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      >> >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                      >> >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >> > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                      >> >
                      >> > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
                      >> > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
                      >>another
                      >> > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
                      >>indicate a
                      >> > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
                      >>do
                      >> > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
                      >> > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
                      >> > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
                      >> > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
                      >>bell
                      >> > on the Pioneer.
                      >> >
                      >> > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
                      >> > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
                      >>source
                      >> > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
                      >> >
                      >> > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
                      >>the
                      >> > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
                      >> > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
                      >>30,
                      >> > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
                      >>5
                      >> > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
                      >>electric
                      >> > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
                      >>of
                      >> > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
                      >>11
                      >> > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
                      >>I
                      >> > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
                      >> > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
                      >> > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
                      >>company
                      >> > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
                      >>these
                      >> > dates with the dates given in the roster.
                      >> >
                      >> > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
                      >>fiscal
                      >> > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
                      >>FJ&G
                      >> > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
                      >> > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
                      >> > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
                      >>of
                      >> > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
                      >> > 1897.
                      >> >
                      >> > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
                      >> > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
                      >>and 4
                      >> > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
                      >>reference
                      >> > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
                      >> >
                      >> > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
                      >> > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
                      >>today.
                      >> >
                      >> > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
                      >> > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
                      >> > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
                      >> > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
                      >> > FY 1874 3 engines
                      >> >
                      >> > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
                      >> > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
                      >> > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
                      >>which
                      >> > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
                      >>own.
                      >> > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
                      >> > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
                      >> > didn't vary.
                      >> >
                      >> > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
                      >>contract
                      >> > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
                      >>which
                      >> > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
                      >>locomotives,
                      >> > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
                      >>cabs,
                      >> > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
                      >>it
                      >> > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
                      >>that
                      >> > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
                      >> > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
                      >> > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
                      >> >
                      >> > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
                      >>won't
                      >> > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
                      >>the
                      >> > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
                      >>eighties
                      >> > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
                      >> > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
                      >>afraid
                      >> > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
                      >> >
                      >> > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
                      >>the
                      >> > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
                      >>done
                      >> > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
                      >>anyone
                      >> > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
                      >>appear
                      >> > to be in the couty files, not state.
                      >> >
                      >> > Now does this get another discussion going?
                      >> >
                      >> > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
                      >>however if
                      >> > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
                      >> >
                      >> > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
                      >>group
                      >> > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
                      >>lying
                      >> > dormant.
                      >> >
                      >> > PKL
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
                      >> >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                      >> >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                      >> >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                      >> >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
                      >> >>
                      >> >>Gino,
                      >> >>
                      >> >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
                      >>is
                      >> >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
                      >>hear,
                      >> >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
                      >> >>
                      >> >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
                      >> >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
                      >> >>college.
                      >> >>
                      >> >>-Aaron
                      >> >>
                      >> >>-----Original Message-----
                      >> >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
                      >> >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                      >> >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
                      >> >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
                      >> >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
                      >> >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
                      >> >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
                      >> >> >incomplete...
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >here it is...
                      >> >> >
                      >> >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
                      >> >> > ren."David A.Wells"
                      >> >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                      >> >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
                      >> >> >2nd.2 ??
                      >> >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
                      >> >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                      >> >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
                      >> >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
                      >> >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                      >> >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
                      >> >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                      >> >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
                      >> >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
                      >> >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
                      >> >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
                      >> >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                      >> >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
                      >> >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                      >> >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
                      >> >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
                      >> >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
                      >> >> > Manhattan Ry.111
                      >> >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
                      >> >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
                      >> >> >13 ??
                      >> >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
                      >> >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
                      >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
                      >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
                      >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >>
                      >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >> >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      >> >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >> >><< text3.html >>
                      >> >
                      >> > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      >> > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >><< text3.html >>
                      >
                      > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      >
                    • Paul Charland
                      Hi Gino, Has Walt moved to Gloversville? He used to be in Syracuse. The other Paul!
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 4, 1999
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Gino,

                        Has Walt moved to Gloversville? He used to be in Syracuse.

                        The other Paul!

                        Gino And Kelly DiCarlo wrote:

                        > From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                        >
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > I haven't heard a response from him. I'm just trying to get some
                        > discussions going on the list. Especially yours and Aarons because
                        > you guys don't skimp on the details. I've asked him to join the list
                        > but still no reply...
                        >
                        > Gino
                        >
                        > ----------
                        > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                        > >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 1999, 7:51 PM
                        > >
                        >
                        > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > >
                        > > Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
                        > > information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
                        > > Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
                        > > other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
                        > > archives at the NYS Library.
                        > >
                        > > PKL
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >>From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
                        > >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > >>To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                        > >>Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
                        > >>
                        > >>Thanks for all the info Paul!
                        > >>
                        > >>Gino
                        > >>
                        > >>----------
                        > >> >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > >> >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > >> >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                        > >> >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >> > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
                        > >> > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
                        > >>another
                        > >> > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
                        > >>indicate a
                        > >> > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
                        > >>do
                        > >> > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
                        > >> > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
                        > >> > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
                        > >> > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
                        > >>bell
                        > >> > on the Pioneer.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
                        > >> > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
                        > >>source
                        > >> > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
                        > >>the
                        > >> > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
                        > >> > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
                        > >>30,
                        > >> > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
                        > >>5
                        > >> > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
                        > >>electric
                        > >> > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
                        > >>of
                        > >> > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
                        > >>11
                        > >> > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
                        > >>I
                        > >> > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
                        > >> > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
                        > >> > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
                        > >>company
                        > >> > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
                        > >>these
                        > >> > dates with the dates given in the roster.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
                        > >>fiscal
                        > >> > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
                        > >>FJ&G
                        > >> > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
                        > >> > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
                        > >> > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
                        > >>of
                        > >> > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
                        > >> > 1897.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
                        > >> > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
                        > >>and 4
                        > >> > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
                        > >>reference
                        > >> > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
                        > >> > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
                        > >>today.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
                        > >> > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
                        > >> > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
                        > >> > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
                        > >> > FY 1874 3 engines
                        > >> >
                        > >> > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
                        > >> > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
                        > >> > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
                        > >>which
                        > >> > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
                        > >>own.
                        > >> > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
                        > >> > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
                        > >> > didn't vary.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
                        > >>contract
                        > >> > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
                        > >>which
                        > >> > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
                        > >>locomotives,
                        > >> > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
                        > >>cabs,
                        > >> > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
                        > >>it
                        > >> > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
                        > >>that
                        > >> > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
                        > >> > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
                        > >> > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
                        > >>won't
                        > >> > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
                        > >>the
                        > >> > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
                        > >>eighties
                        > >> > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
                        > >> > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
                        > >>afraid
                        > >> > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
                        > >>the
                        > >> > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
                        > >>done
                        > >> > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
                        > >>anyone
                        > >> > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
                        > >>appear
                        > >> > to be in the couty files, not state.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Now does this get another discussion going?
                        > >> >
                        > >> > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
                        > >>however if
                        > >> > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
                        > >>group
                        > >> > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
                        > >>lying
                        > >> > dormant.
                        > >> >
                        > >> > PKL
                        > >> >
                        > >> >
                        > >> >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
                        > >> >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
                        > >> >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                        > >> >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                        > >> >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>Gino,
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
                        > >>is
                        > >> >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
                        > >>hear,
                        > >> >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
                        > >> >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
                        > >> >>college.
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>-Aaron
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>-----Original Message-----
                        > >> >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
                        > >> >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
                        > >> >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
                        > >> >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
                        > >> >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
                        > >> >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
                        > >> >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
                        > >> >> >incomplete...
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >here it is...
                        > >> >> >
                        > >> >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
                        > >> >> > ren."David A.Wells"
                        > >> >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                        > >> >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
                        > >> >> >2nd.2 ??
                        > >> >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
                        > >> >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
                        > >> >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
                        > >> >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
                        > >> >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                        > >> >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
                        > >> >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
                        > >> >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
                        > >> >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
                        > >> >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
                        > >> >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
                        > >> >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                        > >> >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
                        > >> >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
                        > >> >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
                        > >> >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
                        > >> >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
                        > >> >> > Manhattan Ry.111
                        > >> >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
                        > >> >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
                        > >> >> >13 ??
                        > >> >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
                        > >> >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
                        > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
                        > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
                        > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>
                        > >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >> >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > >> >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                        > >> >><< text3.html >>
                        > >> >
                        > >> > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > >> > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                        > >><< text3.html >>
                        > >
                        > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                        > >
                        >
                        > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
                        > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.