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Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G RR's Alco S2 # 20 and #21

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  • Skip Barber
    Aaron, That would be great. Let me know when, I m going to paint soon. Skip Aaron Keller wrote: I don t think the #21 was attached to
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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      Aaron,
       
      That would be great.  Let me know when, I'm going to paint soon.
       
      Skip


      Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
      I don't think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange).

      Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the locomotive(s) taken solely for modeling details such as this.  If anyone wants them, I will post a folder and scan them as time permits.

      -Aaron



      "d.michael holdridge" <dmike27@...> wrote:
        I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


      Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:
      Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
       
      PKL





      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
      Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
      Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

      Hi all,

      I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
      my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
      like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
      background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

      Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
      suspect they were always this way.

      Skip




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    • Robert Schoneman
      I suspect Paul is correct. Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint changes almost daily, pending the unit.
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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        I suspect Paul is correct.

        Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
        changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure wannabe regional doesn't
        compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN; but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
        warehouse, and fastest, er cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
        Regardless of age of unit.

        In these two views I've taken over the past few weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
        changes as sill stripes fade or wear off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
        jobs: Yellow sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.

        Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is painted as they were built for IC. The
        yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )

        http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937

        Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:

        http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234

        I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to her home shop, 200+
        miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI, and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
        slowly do they repaint these into CN colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
        it's primer base.

        At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it right:

        http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248

        ...as well as one of yours:

        http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401


        Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.

        Take Care all-

        Bob Schoneman
        Appleton, WI
      • Paul Charland
        Hi Bob, The yellow crap on CN side sills is reflective Scotch Bright used by CN since the early 70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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          Hi Bob,

          The "yellow crap" on CN side sills is reflective "Scotch Bright" used by
          CN since the early '70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
          GP-40-2Ws, and then anything new or repainted into the "Zebra Stripe"
          scheme.

          Unfortunately the CN is plagued with Hunter Harris, former president of
          the IC, so you may want to address your displeasure over the WC
          situation to him. In the years since he's taken the helm of CN he's
          done a great job laying off most of CN's car control, car maintenance
          (no longer done in Canada, everything is sent to IC in the States for
          repair if it make it that far), nearly 75% of track maintenance has been
          laid off, and magically derailments have almost tripled. Harris was so
          pleased to have saved all that money he gave himself a whopping
          seventy-five million dollar bonus two years ago.

          Paul, who's grandfather die during his shift on the Canadian National.

          Robert Schoneman wrote:
          > I suspect Paul is correct.
          >
          > Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
          > changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure wannabe regional doesn't
          > compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN; but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
          > warehouse, and fastest, er cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
          > Regardless of age of unit.
          >
          > In these two views I've taken over the past few weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
          > changes as sill stripes fade or wear off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
          > jobs: Yellow sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.
          >
          > Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is painted as they were built for IC. The
          > yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )
          >
          > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937
          >
          > Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:
          >
          > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234
          >
          > I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to her home shop, 200+
          > miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI, and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
          > slowly do they repaint these into CN colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
          > it's primer base.
          >
          > At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it right:
          >
          > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248
          >
          > ...as well as one of yours:
          >
          > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401
          >
          >
          > Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.
          >
          > Take Care all-
          >
          > Bob Schoneman
          > Appleton, WI
        • Dicarlo, Gino
          Let s see em Aaron! Gino ________________________________ From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Keller
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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            Let's see 'em Aaron!
             
            Gino


            From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Keller
            Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:28 AM
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G RR's Alco S2 # 20 and #21

            I don't think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange).

            Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the locomotive(s) taken solely for modeling details such as this.  If anyone wants them, I will post a folder and scan them as time permits.

            -Aaron



            "d.michael holdridge" <dmike27@yahoo. com> wrote:

              I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


            Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:
            Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
             
            PKL





            To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
            From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
            Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
            Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

            Hi all,

            I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
            my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
            like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
            background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

            Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
            suspect they were always this way.

            Skip




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            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


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          • Dicarlo, Gino
            Paul, Do you guys call the CN Cannuck National north of the border? ;-) Gino ________________________________ From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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              Paul,
               
              Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
               
              Gino


              From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Charland
              Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:54 PM
              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: S2's 20 and 21

              Hi Bob,

              The "yellow crap" on CN side sills is reflective "Scotch Bright" used by
              CN since the early '70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
              GP-40-2Ws, and then anything new or repainted into the "Zebra Stripe"
              scheme.

              Unfortunately the CN is plagued with Hunter Harris, former president of
              the IC, so you may want to address your displeasure over the WC
              situation to him. In the years since he's taken the helm of CN he's
              done a great job laying off most of CN's car control, car maintenance
              (no longer done in Canada, everything is sent to IC in the States for
              repair if it make it that far), nearly 75% of track maintenance has been
              laid off, and magically derailments have almost tripled. Harris was so
              pleased to have saved all that money he gave himself a whopping
              seventy-five million dollar bonus two years ago.

              Paul, who's grandfather die during his shift on the Canadian National.

              Robert Schoneman wrote:

              > I suspect Paul is correct.
              >
              > Apology on
              subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
              > changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure
              wannabe regional doesn't
              > compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN;
              but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
              > warehouse, and fastest, er
              cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
              > Regardless of
              age of unit.
              >
              > In these two views I've taken over the past few
              weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
              > changes as sill stripes fade or wear
              off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
              > jobs: Yellow
              sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.
              >
              > Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is
              painted as they were built for IC. The
              > yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn
              now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )
              >
              >
              href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=1012937
              >
              > Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:
              >
              >
              href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=1002234
              >
              > I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to
              her home shop, 200+
              > miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI,
              and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
              > slowly do they repaint these into CN
              colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
              > it's primer
              base.
              >
              > At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it
              right:
              >
              >
              href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=740248
              >
              > ...as well as one of yours:
              >
              >
              href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=463401
              >
              >
              > Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.
              >
              > Take Care all-
              >
              > Bob Schoneman
              > Appleton,
              WI

            • Paul Charland
              No, never heard it before now. Paul
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                No, never heard it before now.

                Paul

                Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                > Paul,
                >
                > Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
                >
                > Gino
              • Paul Larner
                When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and Indian. It also implied
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                  When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and Indian.  It also implied a particular social status, hard working, but lacking wealth and in many cases opportunity (education).  My stepmother's father was an Adirondack guide, between WW1 and WW2, born in Waubeek.  I can't say we were taught not to use the term but it was reserved.
                   
                  On the north side of the border does it still carry the same connotation?
                   
                  PKL




                  To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  From: p.charlie@...
                  Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:48:19 -0500
                  Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: S2's 20 and 21

                  No, never heard it before now.

                  Paul

                  Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                  > Paul,
                  >
                  > Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
                  >
                  > Gino



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                • Paul Charland
                  Hi Paul, I have nothing against being called a Canuck, just as I m sure if I called you a Yank or some guy an Aussie nobody would bat an eye. When it s used
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 23, 2008
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                    Hi Paul,

                    I have nothing against being called a Canuck, just as I'm sure if I
                    called you a Yank or some guy an Aussie nobody would bat an eye. When
                    it's used in an e-mail that includes such things as "a large wanabee
                    railroad like CN", or "The yellow crap is CN" it's obviously just Canada
                    bashing.

                    To take the time to bitch about CN not getting everything repainted
                    overnight is odd when WC didn't get the Algoma Central power repainted
                    overnight either but I don't remember hearing Mr Schoneman bitch about that.

                    Paul

                    Paul Larner wrote:
                    > When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake
                    > area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and
                    > Indian. It also implied a particular social status, hard working,
                    > but lacking wealth and in many cases opportunity (education). My
                    > stepmother's father was an Adirondack guide, between WW1 and WW2,
                    > born in Waubeek. I can't say we were taught not to use the term but
                    > it was reserved.
                    >
                    > On the north side of the border does it still carry the same
                    > connotation?
                    >
                    > PKL
                  • Robert Schoneman
                    Paul- Thank you very much for your reply. I m sorry to hear about your grandfather. To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 23, 2008
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                      Paul-

                      Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.

                      To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck termonolgy.
                      Harrison's business philosophy has turned many a family and community out here into
                      wasteland, and he is not very well respected/liked.

                      CN may have the best financial operating ratio in the nation, but they are asking for
                      trouble. CP here has started to see the light and reinvesting back into it's
                      infrastructure, and people. To better compete with the CN.

                      I love trains, period. CN used to be my favorite railroad growing up. I'm not really mad
                      at CN per se, just the normal business practices, profit maximization, and skimming at
                      the expense of the line worker that gets me going. So what is new,,,?

                      I have shots of FJ&G 20 & 21 as well that I can post by this weekend here.

                      Bob
                    • Aaron Keller
                      Gino, I ll start scanning pictures as time becomes available. And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old. I ve been ridiculously
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 26, 2008
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                        Gino,

                        I'll start scanning pictures as time becomes available.

                        And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old.  I've been ridiculously busy.

                        -Aaron


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                      • Gino's Railpage
                        Aaron,, I looked all over Ebay and couldn t find any DO Line shot. Gino ... -- http://ginosrailpage.com http://fjgrr.org http://ginosmusicservice.com
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                          Aaron,,
                           
                          I looked all over Ebay and couldn't find any DO Line shot.
                           
                          Gino

                           
                          On 1/26/08, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:

                          Gino,

                          I'll start scanning pictures as time becomes available.

                          And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old.  I've been ridiculously busy.

                          -Aaron


                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.




                          --
                          http://ginosrailpage.com
                          http://fjgrr.org
                          http://ginosmusicservice.com
                        • Robert Schoneman
                          Ditto here as well. I still have all these fj&g related disks here from last summer. If they are desired out east, I will ship back, prepaid. Robert Schoneman
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                            Ditto here as well. I still have all these fj&g related disks here from last summer. If
                            they are desired out east, I will ship back, prepaid.

                            Robert Schoneman
                            Appleton, WI
                          • Gino's Railpage
                            Hey guys, I really liked the sound of Canuck National and wanted to tease my Canadian friend on the list! Didn t want to stir up trouble here! Bob and Paul
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                              Hey guys, I really liked the sound of Canuck National and wanted to tease
                              my Canadian friend on the list!  Didn't want to stir up trouble here!  Bob and Paul
                              are both great guys.
                               
                              I'll stick to off-color jokes in the future!
                               
                              Gino

                               
                              On 1/23/08, Robert Schoneman <suds@...> wrote:

                              Paul-

                              Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.

                              To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck termonolgy.
                              Harrison's business philosophy has turned many a family and community out here into
                              wasteland, and he is not very well respected/liked.

                              CN may have the best financial operating ratio in the nation, but they are asking for
                              trouble. CP here has started to see the light and reinvesting back into it's
                              infrastructure, and people. To better compete with the CN.

                              I love trains, period. CN used to be my favorite railroad growing up. I'm not really mad
                              at CN per se, just the normal business practices, profit maximization, and skimming at
                              the expense of the line worker that gets me going. So what is new,,,?

                              I have shots of FJ&G 20 & 21 as well that I can post by this weekend here.

                              Bob




                              --
                              http://ginosrailpage.com
                              http://fjgrr.org
                              http://ginosmusicservice.com
                            • Robert Schoneman
                              Yes, Paul is a great guy; but I don t know about this Robert fellow though. With interests that stem from Fulton Co, NY to the Milwaukee Road, and lives next
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                Yes, Paul is a great guy; but I don't know about this Robert fellow though.

                                With interests that stem from Fulton Co, NY to the Milwaukee Road, and lives next to the
                                Cannuck National; I've been all over purgatory and back. One thing I haven't done is work
                                at Quad. ;-)

                                BUT, my employer is Canadian. So I do have close ties to Lucifer...

                                I know this is a public list. NOTHING you can say about the CN could be offensive enough
                                to us who've seen the damage they've done.

                                Now, I'd better behave and get myself to church on Wednesday.

                                :-)

                                Bob
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