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FJ&G RR's Alco S2 # 20 and #21

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  • d.michael holdridge
    I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right. Paul Larner
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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        I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


      Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
      Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
       
      PKL





      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
      Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
      Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

      Hi all,

      I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
      my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
      like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
      background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

      Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
      suspect they were always this way.

      Skip




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    • d.michael holdridge
      I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right. Paul Larner
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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          I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


        Paul Larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
        Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
         
        PKL





        To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
        From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
        Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
        Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

        Hi all,

        I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
        my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
        like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
        background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

        Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
        suspect they were always this way.

        Skip




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      • Aaron Keller
        I don t think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange). Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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          I don't think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange).

          Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the locomotive(s) taken solely for modeling details such as this.  If anyone wants them, I will post a folder and scan them as time permits.

          -Aaron



          "d.michael holdridge" <dmike27@...> wrote:
            I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


          Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:
          Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
           
          PKL





          To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
          From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
          Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
          Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

          Hi all,

          I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
          my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
          like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
          background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

          Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
          suspect they were always this way.

          Skip




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        • Skip Barber
          Aaron, That would be great. Let me know when, I m going to paint soon. Skip Aaron Keller wrote: I don t think the #21 was attached to
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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            Aaron,
             
            That would be great.  Let me know when, I'm going to paint soon.
             
            Skip


            Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:
            I don't think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange).

            Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the locomotive(s) taken solely for modeling details such as this.  If anyone wants them, I will post a folder and scan them as time permits.

            -Aaron



            "d.michael holdridge" <dmike27@...> wrote:
              I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


            Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:
            Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
             
            PKL





            To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
            From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
            Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
            Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

            Hi all,

            I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
            my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
            like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
            background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

            Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
            suspect they were always this way.

            Skip




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          • Robert Schoneman
            I suspect Paul is correct. Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint changes almost daily, pending the unit.
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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              I suspect Paul is correct.

              Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
              changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure wannabe regional doesn't
              compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN; but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
              warehouse, and fastest, er cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
              Regardless of age of unit.

              In these two views I've taken over the past few weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
              changes as sill stripes fade or wear off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
              jobs: Yellow sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.

              Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is painted as they were built for IC. The
              yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )

              http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937

              Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:

              http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234

              I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to her home shop, 200+
              miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI, and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
              slowly do they repaint these into CN colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
              it's primer base.

              At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it right:

              http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248

              ...as well as one of yours:

              http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401


              Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.

              Take Care all-

              Bob Schoneman
              Appleton, WI
            • Paul Charland
              Hi Bob, The yellow crap on CN side sills is reflective Scotch Bright used by CN since the early 70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                Hi Bob,

                The "yellow crap" on CN side sills is reflective "Scotch Bright" used by
                CN since the early '70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
                GP-40-2Ws, and then anything new or repainted into the "Zebra Stripe"
                scheme.

                Unfortunately the CN is plagued with Hunter Harris, former president of
                the IC, so you may want to address your displeasure over the WC
                situation to him. In the years since he's taken the helm of CN he's
                done a great job laying off most of CN's car control, car maintenance
                (no longer done in Canada, everything is sent to IC in the States for
                repair if it make it that far), nearly 75% of track maintenance has been
                laid off, and magically derailments have almost tripled. Harris was so
                pleased to have saved all that money he gave himself a whopping
                seventy-five million dollar bonus two years ago.

                Paul, who's grandfather die during his shift on the Canadian National.

                Robert Schoneman wrote:
                > I suspect Paul is correct.
                >
                > Apology on subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
                > changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure wannabe regional doesn't
                > compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN; but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
                > warehouse, and fastest, er cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
                > Regardless of age of unit.
                >
                > In these two views I've taken over the past few weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
                > changes as sill stripes fade or wear off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
                > jobs: Yellow sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.
                >
                > Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is painted as they were built for IC. The
                > yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )
                >
                > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937
                >
                > Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:
                >
                > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234
                >
                > I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to her home shop, 200+
                > miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI, and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
                > slowly do they repaint these into CN colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
                > it's primer base.
                >
                > At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it right:
                >
                > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248
                >
                > ...as well as one of yours:
                >
                > http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401
                >
                >
                > Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.
                >
                > Take Care all-
                >
                > Bob Schoneman
                > Appleton, WI
              • Dicarlo, Gino
                Let s see em Aaron! Gino ________________________________ From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Keller
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                  Let's see 'em Aaron!
                   
                  Gino


                  From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Keller
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:28 AM
                  To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G RR's Alco S2 # 20 and #21

                  I don't think the #21 was attached to a plate; I think the background was just painted cream (not orange).

                  Somewhere I have about 20 or so tight shots of the locomotive(s) taken solely for modeling details such as this.  If anyone wants them, I will post a folder and scan them as time permits.

                  -Aaron



                  "d.michael holdridge" <dmike27@yahoo. com> wrote:

                    I appreciate you that know the FJ&G locomotive paint detailing differences, and also appreciate you modelers that want to get it right.


                  Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:
                  Skip, I don't have an explanation as to "why" but that is the way they were.  Notice also that the fronts of the cabs are different colors as well, 20 orange and 21 black.  The number on the nose of the 21 is on line with the lettering on the sides whereas with the 20 the nose number is above.  The number boards are also distinctive: 20 white on black; 21 black on white.  They were a year apart and it would seem whomever wasn't looking that close.
                   
                  PKL





                  To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
                  From: skip_8933@yahoo. com
                  Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0000
                  Subject: [FJGRailroad] S2's 20 and 21

                  Hi all,

                  I am working on getting some decals done for my S2s. It was brought to
                  my attention that the front numbers on the S2s are different. It looks
                  like 20 has the number applied to a plate that has a yellow
                  background. On the other hand, 21 is on the orange background.

                  Does anyone know why this is? My era is early 1950s, but I would
                  suspect they were always this way.

                  Skip




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                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.


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                • Dicarlo, Gino
                  Paul, Do you guys call the CN Cannuck National north of the border? ;-) Gino ________________________________ From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                    Paul,
                     
                    Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
                     
                    Gino


                    From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Charland
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:54 PM
                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: S2's 20 and 21

                    Hi Bob,

                    The "yellow crap" on CN side sills is reflective "Scotch Bright" used by
                    CN since the early '70s with the delivery of their first order of GMD
                    GP-40-2Ws, and then anything new or repainted into the "Zebra Stripe"
                    scheme.

                    Unfortunately the CN is plagued with Hunter Harris, former president of
                    the IC, so you may want to address your displeasure over the WC
                    situation to him. In the years since he's taken the helm of CN he's
                    done a great job laying off most of CN's car control, car maintenance
                    (no longer done in Canada, everything is sent to IC in the States for
                    repair if it make it that far), nearly 75% of track maintenance has been
                    laid off, and magically derailments have almost tripled. Harris was so
                    pleased to have saved all that money he gave himself a whopping
                    seventy-five million dollar bonus two years ago.

                    Paul, who's grandfather die during his shift on the Canadian National.

                    Robert Schoneman wrote:

                    > I suspect Paul is correct.
                    >
                    > Apology on
                    subject, but proves a point. Over here with the Cannuck National, we see paint
                    > changes almost daily, pending the unit. Granted a small obscure
                    wannabe regional doesn't
                    > compare to a large wanabee railroad like CN;
                    but it has boiled down to what's in stock in
                    > warehouse, and fastest, er
                    cheapest method of recitifying and getting back on road.
                    > Regardless of
                    age of unit.
                    >
                    > In these two views I've taken over the past few
                    weeks, the IC, er CN SD70's undergo
                    > changes as sill stripes fade or wear
                    off. On a fair portion of units now, we see patch
                    > jobs: Yellow
                    sillstrpe, a section of white, yellow, white then none at all. Looks horrid.
                    >
                    > Despite the lack of a bath, the trailing SD70 is
                    painted as they were built for IC. The
                    > yellow crap is CN. ( As we learn
                    now recently as a suggestion from the FRA )
                    >
                    >
                    href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1012937">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=1012937
                    >
                    > Same is true for IC 6011, whatever is in stock:
                    >
                    >
                    href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1002234">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=1002234
                    >
                    > I suspect sill stripe will be changed next time she makes it back to
                    her home shop, 200+
                    > miles away. CN closed the two big shops here in WI,
                    and cut 80% of the workforce. VERY
                    > slowly do they repaint these into CN
                    colors, usually when the unit has wore back down to
                    > it's primer
                    base.
                    >
                    > At least one of our our small regionals know how to do it
                    right:
                    >
                    >
                    href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=740248">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=740248
                    >
                    > ...as well as one of yours:
                    >
                    >
                    href="http://robertschoneman.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=463401">http://robertschone man.rrpicturearc hives.net/ showPicture. aspx?id=463401
                    >
                    >
                    > Well enough about WI and everyone else's RR's.
                    >
                    > Take Care all-
                    >
                    > Bob Schoneman
                    > Appleton,
                    WI

                  • Paul Charland
                    No, never heard it before now. Paul
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                      No, never heard it before now.

                      Paul

                      Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                      > Paul,
                      >
                      > Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
                      >
                      > Gino
                    • Paul Larner
                      When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and Indian. It also implied
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 22, 2008
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                        When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and Indian.  It also implied a particular social status, hard working, but lacking wealth and in many cases opportunity (education).  My stepmother's father was an Adirondack guide, between WW1 and WW2, born in Waubeek.  I can't say we were taught not to use the term but it was reserved.
                         
                        On the north side of the border does it still carry the same connotation?
                         
                        PKL




                        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        From: p.charlie@...
                        Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:48:19 -0500
                        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: S2's 20 and 21

                        No, never heard it before now.

                        Paul

                        Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                        > Paul,
                        >
                        > Do you guys call the CN "Cannuck National" north of the border? ;-)
                        >
                        > Gino



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                      • Paul Charland
                        Hi Paul, I have nothing against being called a Canuck, just as I m sure if I called you a Yank or some guy an Aussie nobody would bat an eye. When it s used
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 23, 2008
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                          Hi Paul,

                          I have nothing against being called a Canuck, just as I'm sure if I
                          called you a Yank or some guy an Aussie nobody would bat an eye. When
                          it's used in an e-mail that includes such things as "a large wanabee
                          railroad like CN", or "The yellow crap is CN" it's obviously just Canada
                          bashing.

                          To take the time to bitch about CN not getting everything repainted
                          overnight is odd when WC didn't get the Algoma Central power repainted
                          overnight either but I don't remember hearing Mr Schoneman bitch about that.

                          Paul

                          Paul Larner wrote:
                          > When I heard that term for the first time it was in the Tupper Lake
                          > area and referred to a person whose blood was French Canadian and
                          > Indian. It also implied a particular social status, hard working,
                          > but lacking wealth and in many cases opportunity (education). My
                          > stepmother's father was an Adirondack guide, between WW1 and WW2,
                          > born in Waubeek. I can't say we were taught not to use the term but
                          > it was reserved.
                          >
                          > On the north side of the border does it still carry the same
                          > connotation?
                          >
                          > PKL
                        • Robert Schoneman
                          Paul- Thank you very much for your reply. I m sorry to hear about your grandfather. To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 23, 2008
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                            Paul-

                            Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.

                            To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck termonolgy.
                            Harrison's business philosophy has turned many a family and community out here into
                            wasteland, and he is not very well respected/liked.

                            CN may have the best financial operating ratio in the nation, but they are asking for
                            trouble. CP here has started to see the light and reinvesting back into it's
                            infrastructure, and people. To better compete with the CN.

                            I love trains, period. CN used to be my favorite railroad growing up. I'm not really mad
                            at CN per se, just the normal business practices, profit maximization, and skimming at
                            the expense of the line worker that gets me going. So what is new,,,?

                            I have shots of FJ&G 20 & 21 as well that I can post by this weekend here.

                            Bob
                          • Aaron Keller
                            Gino, I ll start scanning pictures as time becomes available. And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old. I ve been ridiculously
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 26, 2008
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                              Gino,

                              I'll start scanning pictures as time becomes available.

                              And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old.  I've been ridiculously busy.

                              -Aaron


                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                            • Gino's Railpage
                              Aaron,, I looked all over Ebay and couldn t find any DO Line shot. Gino ... -- http://ginosrailpage.com http://fjgrr.org http://ginosmusicservice.com
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                                Aaron,,
                                 
                                I looked all over Ebay and couldn't find any DO Line shot.
                                 
                                Gino

                                 
                                On 1/26/08, Aaron Keller <akeller_1979@...> wrote:

                                Gino,

                                I'll start scanning pictures as time becomes available.

                                And I apologize for the late replies to topics that are several days old.  I've been ridiculously busy.

                                -Aaron


                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.




                                --
                                http://ginosrailpage.com
                                http://fjgrr.org
                                http://ginosmusicservice.com
                              • Robert Schoneman
                                Ditto here as well. I still have all these fj&g related disks here from last summer. If they are desired out east, I will ship back, prepaid. Robert Schoneman
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                                  Ditto here as well. I still have all these fj&g related disks here from last summer. If
                                  they are desired out east, I will ship back, prepaid.

                                  Robert Schoneman
                                  Appleton, WI
                                • Gino's Railpage
                                  Hey guys, I really liked the sound of Canuck National and wanted to tease my Canadian friend on the list! Didn t want to stir up trouble here! Bob and Paul
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jan 27, 2008
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                                    Hey guys, I really liked the sound of Canuck National and wanted to tease
                                    my Canadian friend on the list!  Didn't want to stir up trouble here!  Bob and Paul
                                    are both great guys.
                                     
                                    I'll stick to off-color jokes in the future!
                                     
                                    Gino

                                     
                                    On 1/23/08, Robert Schoneman <suds@...> wrote:

                                    Paul-

                                    Thank you very much for your reply. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather.

                                    To be legal and honest, no disrespect or offense is meant by the Cannuck termonolgy.
                                    Harrison's business philosophy has turned many a family and community out here into
                                    wasteland, and he is not very well respected/liked.

                                    CN may have the best financial operating ratio in the nation, but they are asking for
                                    trouble. CP here has started to see the light and reinvesting back into it's
                                    infrastructure, and people. To better compete with the CN.

                                    I love trains, period. CN used to be my favorite railroad growing up. I'm not really mad
                                    at CN per se, just the normal business practices, profit maximization, and skimming at
                                    the expense of the line worker that gets me going. So what is new,,,?

                                    I have shots of FJ&G 20 & 21 as well that I can post by this weekend here.

                                    Bob




                                    --
                                    http://ginosrailpage.com
                                    http://fjgrr.org
                                    http://ginosmusicservice.com
                                  • Robert Schoneman
                                    Yes, Paul is a great guy; but I don t know about this Robert fellow though. With interests that stem from Fulton Co, NY to the Milwaukee Road, and lives next
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jan 28, 2008
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                                      Yes, Paul is a great guy; but I don't know about this Robert fellow though.

                                      With interests that stem from Fulton Co, NY to the Milwaukee Road, and lives next to the
                                      Cannuck National; I've been all over purgatory and back. One thing I haven't done is work
                                      at Quad. ;-)

                                      BUT, my employer is Canadian. So I do have close ties to Lucifer...

                                      I know this is a public list. NOTHING you can say about the CN could be offensive enough
                                      to us who've seen the damage they've done.

                                      Now, I'd better behave and get myself to church on Wednesday.

                                      :-)

                                      Bob
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