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Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update

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  • Paul Charland
    Hi Gino, Thanks for the comments, hadn t seen the section sign but I ll look for it now that I know I should be seeing on near NIMO. As for the color of the
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 23, 2007
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      Hi Gino,

      Thanks for the comments, hadn't seen the section sign but I'll look for
      it now that I know I should be seeing on near NIMO.

      As for the color of the brick work for Continental, I draw these things
      in one program and used a lightly colored brick, pretty close the the
      shot you sent years ago, problem is the lighting in MSTS darkens just
      about everything, that might change though as MSTS changes lighting as
      the day goes by, might brighten up later in the afternoon. I see this
      all the time and wonder if I should be finding out how to change the
      world setting for brightness for the entire route. I'm not too
      satisfied with the lack of light overall.

      Paul :-)

      Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
      > Paul,
      >
      > Great job as always!!!! The Sandbank itself looks great. I can almost
      > smell Independent Leather!!! Here's
      > some comments, but certainly not criticism. There was a section sign
      > for 3-4 that was located right
      > near NIMO. You could throw that in if you'd like. Also, I have a color
      > picture somewhere of the
      > Gloversville Knitting Mill. If I remember, the silos were a light
      > color, but I'm not sure.
      >
      > Anyhow, not critics, but some tidbits that you might want to enjoy.
      > Heck, if you're going the extra mile
      > to include the NIMO sign, which is sweet, you may want something else...
      >
      > Gino
    • Paul Charland
      Hi Gino, I couldn t find the sign in any of my photos, I do have a section sign in one of the Harold Russell articles, do you have a location for the sign...
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 23, 2007
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        Hi Gino,

        I couldn't find the sign in any of my photos, I do have a section sign
        in one of the Harold Russell articles, do you have a location for the
        sign... NIMO, but about where?

        Paul :-)

        Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
        > Paul,
        >
        > Great job as always!!!! The Sandbank itself looks great. I can almost
        > smell Independent Leather!!! Here's
        > some comments, but certainly not criticism. There was a section sign
        > for 3-4 that was located right
        > near NIMO. You could throw that in if you'd like. Also, I have a color
        > picture somewhere of the
        > Gloversville Knitting Mill. If I remember, the silos were a light
        > color, but I'm not sure.
        >
        > Anyhow, not critics, but some tidbits that you might want to enjoy.
        > Heck, if you're going the extra mile
        > to include the NIMO sign, which is sweet, you may want something else...
        >
        > Gino
      • Paul Larner
        IIRC the section sign west of the main track, south of the Hill Street crossing, 100 feet or so, was the split of section 2 and 3. 3 and 6 met at Broadalbin
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 24, 2007
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          IIRC the section sign west of the main track, south of the Hill Street crossing, 100 feet or so, was the split of section 2 and 3.  3 and 6 met at Broadalbin Jct. 6 being the rest of the ROW to Broadalbin.  Your work looks very nice.  Hopefully after Christmas I'll have MSTS and can give it a run.
           
          PKL




          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          From: Gino.Dicarlo@...
          Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:49:49 -0600
          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update

          Paul,
           
          Great job as always!!!!  The Sandbank itself looks great.  I can almost smell Independent Leather!!!  Here's
          some comments, but certainly not criticism.  There was a section sign for 3-4 that was located right
          near NIMO.  You could throw that in if you'd like.  Also, I have a color picture somewhere of the
          Gloversville Knitting Mill.  If I remember, the silos were a light color, but I'm not sure.
           
          Anyhow, not critics, but some tidbits that you might want to enjoy.  Heck, if you're going the extra mile
          to include the NIMO sign, which is sweet, you may want something else...
           
          Gino


          From: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FJGRailroad @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Paul Charland
          Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 3:07 PM
          To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update

          Hi All,

          Here are a few more screen shots of the section of the Microsoft
          Train-Sim route I've been working on:

          http://forums. flightsim. com/ts/dcboard. php?az=show_ topic&forum= 13&topic_ id=89877& mesg_id=89877& page=

          This completes the route to West Pine Street in Gloversville, just short
          of the yard.

          If anyone is interested Skip Barber informs me that MS Train_Sim is
          selling for only $10 at his local Wal-Mart. If anyone is interested in
          getting MSTS and would like to get the latest beta of the route, I can
          supply them with a link to the file and help get them set up and
          running. The only thing that cost anything is the MS Train-Sim itself,
          the rest are files downloaded off the internet for free.

          Paul :-)




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        • Paul Larner
          If you place that section sign 60 feet south of the center of Hill Street (west side) it will be close enough for government work. The section 1/2 sign was
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 24, 2007
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            If you place that section sign 60 feet south of the center of Hill Street (west side) it will be close enough for government work.  The section 1/2 sign was located 3,707 feet south of the points for the Knox switch.
             
            PKL





            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            From: p.charlie@...
            Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:24:44 -0500
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update

            Hi Gino,

            I couldn't find the sign in any of my photos, I do have a section sign
            in one of the Harold Russell articles, do you have a location for the
            sign... NIMO, but about where?

            Paul :-)

            Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
            > Paul,
            >
            > Great job as always!!!! The Sandbank itself looks great. I can almost
            > smell Independent Leather!!! Here's
            > some comments, but certainly not criticism. There was a section sign
            > for 3-4 that was located right
            > near NIMO. You could throw that in if you'd like. Also, I have a color
            > picture somewhere of the
            > Gloversville Knitting Mill. If I remember, the silos were a light
            > color, but I'm not sure.
            >
            > Anyhow, not critics, but some tidbits that you might want to enjoy.
            > Heck, if you're going the extra mile
            > to include the NIMO sign, which is sweet, you may want something else...
            >
            > Gino




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          • Paul Charland
            Hi Paul, Thanks for the help. I wasn t sure where the sign was going to be and went and draw it as if it was going to be placed on the east side of the
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 25, 2007
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              Hi Paul,

              Thanks for the help. I wasn't sure where the sign was going to be and
              went and draw it as if it was going to be placed on the east side of the
              tracks, guess I'll be drawing that again!

              Working on 20 and 21. Started with someone else's "undecorated" 3D model
              but as I go along I've had to delete things and redraw them, replaced
              the hood yesterday and have it painted and lettered for 20. I have to
              replace the cab and add an interior, them make a copy and replace the
              different lettering and stripes for 21. Starting to look like something
              though.

              Paul :-)

              Paul Larner wrote:
              > If you place that section sign 60 feet south of the center of Hill
              > Street (west side) it will be close enough for government work. The
              > section 1/2 sign was located 3,707 feet south of the points for the
              > Knox switch.
              >
              > PKL
            • Paul Charland
              Thanks again Paul, Added the two signs in their respective locations. Never going to be able to make this sim perfect but adding small details like these
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 25, 2007
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                Thanks again Paul,

                Added the two signs in their respective locations. Never going to be
                able to make this sim perfect but adding small details like these signs
                may make it a bit more "real" in the end.

                Paul :-)

                Paul Larner wrote:
                > If you place that section sign 60 feet south of the center of Hill
                > Street (west side) it will be close enough for government work. The
                > section 1/2 sign was located 3,707 feet south of the points for the
                > Knox switch.
                >
                > PKL
              • Paul Larner
                Good afternoon Paul, The octagon bridge signs were also used and maintained; since, like the section signs, they didn t easily fall down, they continued to be
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 25, 2007
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                  Good afternoon Paul,
                   
                  The octagon bridge signs were also used and maintained; since, like the section signs, they didn't easily fall down, they continued to be a presence.  The bridges were numbered in whole numbers starting with No. 1 at Fonda.  Side of track and end of bridge varied by location.
                   
                  I don't recall having seen the city limit sign but if it's in the drawings it likely existed.  The practice of marking municipal boundaries was common and may have been required for one reason or another I can think of.  The location was 56 feet south of MP 8, which was 1000 feet south of the center of Harrison Street, for 1056 ft. south of Harrison St.
                   
                  PKL





                  > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: p.charlie@...
                  > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 07:02:39 -0500
                  > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update
                  >
                  > Hi Paul,
                  >
                  > Thanks for the help. I wasn't sure where the sign was going to be and
                  > went and draw it as if it was going to be placed on the east side of the
                  > tracks, guess I'll be drawing that again!
                  >
                  > Working on 20 and 21. Started with someone else's "undecorated" 3D model
                  > but as I go along I've had to delete things and redraw them, replaced
                  > the hood yesterday and have it painted and lettered for 20. I have to
                  > replace the cab and add an interior, them make a copy and replace the
                  > different lettering and stripes for 21. Starting to look like something
                  > though.
                  >
                  > Paul :-)
                  >
                  > Paul Larner wrote:
                  > > If you place that section sign 60 feet south of the center of Hill
                  > > Street (west side) it will be close enough for government work. The
                  > > section 1/2 sign was located 3,707 feet south of the points for the
                  > > Knox switch.
                  > >
                  > > PKL
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                  > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                  > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                  > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
                  > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad/
                  >
                  > <*> Your email settings:
                  > Individual Email | Traditional
                  >
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                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >



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                • Paul Charland
                  Hi Paul I was holding off adding the bridge signs as I wasn t sure what was on them. The drawing in Harold Russell s article shows S 14.73 which I would
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 25, 2007
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                    Hi Paul

                    I was holding off adding the bridge signs as I wasn't sure what was on
                    them. The drawing in Harold Russell's article shows "S 14.73" which I
                    would think would be 14.73 miles south of Broadalbin. I see these signs
                    in many photos but was planning on holding off until I have set the mile
                    markers along the route. In MSTS mile markers are set by adding a
                    signal at mile zero, then running along the route and watching for the
                    mileage in the Track Monitor to change, hitting the Print Screen key on
                    the keyboard and later looking at the latitude and longitude the screen
                    shot was taken at. Then you have to go find the matching coordinates
                    and plant your mile marker. To do the bridge markers you would have to
                    do the same thing.

                    The reason for not doing this now is that mile posts are something
                    called an Interactive Object. This includes things like signals,
                    crossing gates and lights (that will also be added later), and mile
                    posts that are indicated on the track monitor. The problem with
                    interactive objects is if you alter any track on the route after placing
                    interactive objects they stop working and have to be removed and placed
                    again, so most people don't place them until the very last stages of
                    route development...

                    I can place the political boundary sign though, I'll have to convert the
                    1056' measurement to metric (not my choice, the designers of the sim
                    were from England and set all track pieces in metric), then measure from
                    Harrison Street.

                    Paul :-)

                    Paul Larner wrote:
                    > Good afternoon Paul,
                    >
                    > The octagon bridge signs were also used and maintained; since, like
                    > the section signs, they didn't easily fall down, they continued to be
                    > a presence. The bridges were numbered in whole numbers starting with
                    > No. 1 at Fonda. Side of track and end of bridge varied by location.
                    >
                    > I don't recall having seen the city limit sign but if it's in the
                    > drawings it likely existed. The practice of marking municipal
                    > boundaries was common and may have been required for one reason or
                    > another I can think of. The location was 56 feet south of MP 8,
                    > which was 1000 feet south of the center of Harrison Street, for 1056
                    > ft. south of Harrison St.
                    >
                    > PKL
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
                  • Paul Larner
                    One of the reports I read somewhere here indicates the bridge signs had simply the bridge number, 1, 2, etc. Broadalbin never figured in the mileage of the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 26, 2007
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                      One of the reports I read somewhere here indicates the bridge signs had simply the bridge number, 1, 2, etc.  Broadalbin never figured in the mileage of the FJ&G and so far as I know had no mile posts.  As a leased line it had separate chainage starting at Broadalbin Jct.  The mileages went Fonda to Northville after the concrete post were installed and, as I recall, the only letter designation was F (Fonda) and the mile number therefrom.  Chainage was measured from Fonda commencing at at point sixty feet south of the points of the switch to the turntable; the points of the respective switch were used for measuring sidings and spurs.
                       
                      Cannot offer an explanation for that S 14.73 on the sign example used in Russell's article.  There was never a bridge on the FJ&G steam line at mile 14.73 or 10.91 counting from both Fonda and Northville respectively.  On the electric division that mileage from end of FJ&G track would be on the streets of Amsterdam.  Mileages on the electric to Schenectady were designated G.  Will have to do some looking to find electric division bridge designations - but that's not what you're looking for anyway.

                      When you're ready let me know I'll give you the numbers as they changed over the years as bridges were converted to culverts.
                       
                      PKL


                      > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: p.charlie@...
                      > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:51:07 -0500
                      > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update
                      >
                      > Hi Paul
                      >
                      > I was holding off adding the bridge signs as I wasn't sure what was on
                      > them. The drawing in Harold Russell's article shows "S 14.73" which I
                      > would think would be 14.73 miles south of Broadalbin. I see these signs
                      > in many photos but was planning on holding off until I have set the mile
                      > markers along the route. In MSTS mile markers are set by adding a
                      > signal at mile zero, then running along the route and watching for the
                      > mileage in the Track Monitor to change, hitting the Print Screen key on
                      > the keyboard and later looking at the latitude and longitude the screen
                      > shot was taken at. Then you have to go find the matching coordinates
                      > and plant your mile marker. To do the bridge markers you would have to
                      > do the same thing.
                      >
                      > The reason for not doing this now is that mile posts are something
                      > called an Interactive Object. This includes things like signals,
                      > crossing gates and lights (that will also be added later), and mile
                      > posts that are indicated on the track monitor. The problem with
                      > interactive objects is if you alter any track on the route after placing
                      > interactive objects they stop working and have to be removed and placed
                      > again, so most people don't place them until the very last stages of
                      > route development...
                      >
                      > I can place the political boundary sign though, I'll have to convert the
                      > 1056' measurement to metric (not my choice, the designers of the sim
                      > were from England and set all track pieces in metric), then measure from
                      > Harrison Street.
                      >
                      > Paul :-)
                      >
                      > Paul Larner wrote:
                      > > Good afternoon Paul,
                      > >
                      > > The octagon bridge signs were also used and maintained; since, like
                      > > the section signs, they didn't easily fall down, they continued to be
                      > > a presence. The bridges were numbered in whole numbers starting with
                      > > No. 1 at Fonda. Side of track and end of bridge varied by location.
                      > >
                      > > I don't recall having seen the city limit sign but if it's in the
                      > > drawings it likely existed. The practice of marking municipal
                      > > boundaries was common and may have been required for one reason or
                      > > another I can think of. The location was 56 feet south of MP 8,
                      > > which was 1000 feet south of the center of Harrison Street, for 1056
                      > > ft. south of Harrison St.
                      > >
                      > > PKL
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
                      >
                      >
                      > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                      > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                      > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                      > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
                      > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad/
                      >
                      > <*> Your email settings:
                      > Individual Email | Traditional
                      >
                      > <*> To change settings online go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad/join
                      > (Yahoo! ID required)
                      >
                      > <*> To change settings via email:
                      > mailto:FJGRailroad-digest@yahoogroups.com
                      > mailto:FJGRailroad-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >



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                    • Paul Charland
                      Hi Paul, Post away! I ll do what I can for the bridges I have in place and add the remainder as I get further along the route. I take it the first bridge
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 27, 2007
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                        Hi Paul,

                        Post away! I'll do what I can for the bridges I have in place and add
                        the remainder as I get further along the route.

                        I take it the first bridge would be the one just south of Route 5 in
                        Fonda (but I can't remember seeing and bridge marker for that one),
                        making High Bridge bridge 2?

                        I'm shotting for about 1955 to 1957 for the MSTS route.

                        Paul :-)

                        Paul Larner wrote:
                        > One of the reports I read somewhere here indicates the bridge signs
                        > had simply the bridge number, 1, 2, etc. Broadalbin never figured in
                        > the mileage of the FJ&G and so far as I know had no mile posts. As a
                        > leased line it had separate chainage starting at Broadalbin Jct. The
                        > mileages went Fonda to Northville after the concrete post were
                        > installed and, as I recall, the only letter designation was F (Fonda)
                        > and the mile number therefrom. Chainage was measured from Fonda
                        > commencing at at point sixty feet south of the points of the switch
                        > to the turntable; the points of the respective switch were used for
                        > measuring sidings and spurs.
                        >
                        > Cannot offer an explanation for that S 14.73 on the sign example used
                        > in Russell's article. There was never a bridge on the FJ&G steam
                        > line at mile 14.73 or 10.91 counting from both Fonda and Northville
                        > respectively. On the electric division that mileage from end of FJ&G
                        > track would be on the streets of Amsterdam. Mileages on the electric
                        > to Schenectady were designated G. Will have to do some looking to
                        > find electric division bridge designations - but that's not what
                        > you're looking for anyway. When you're ready let me know I'll give
                        > you the numbers as they changed over the years as bridges were
                        > converted to culverts.
                        >
                        > PKL
                      • Paul Larner
                        Good morning Paul, Yes the bridge in Fonda was No. 1; No. 2 is the High Bridge; 3 near Washington Street in Johnstown, just north of the little coal shed; No.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 28, 2007
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                          Good morning Paul,
                           
                          Yes the bridge in Fonda was No. 1; No. 2 is the High Bridge; 3 near Washington Street in Johnstown, just north of the little coal shed; No. 4 is the one north of Harrison Street which washed out under a night extra freight and locomotive 12; No. 5, just south of Hill Street, mileage 8.5; No. 6, Below South Main Street, mileage 9.0.  On the Broadalbin line No. 1 was the 11 foot span over Anthony Creek, mileage 0.6 on the branch and if mileage were figured from Fonda, 14.05; No. 2 at this time would be over Skinner Brook at mileage 17.4, south of the Johnstown Road crossing.  Bridges 7, 8, 9, and 10 were on the main line north of the junction.
                           
                          As point of reference there were originally other bridges that were converted to concrete box culverts, some fairly large.  Original No. 4 was over the canal at Johnstown; there were also Nos. 7, 8, and 9 which were in the yard at Gloversville.  North of Gloversville (station) the bridges at Spring Street and just north of 8th Avenue had also been converted to culverts.  On the branch there had also been a bridge at Kasson's creek, which became a culvert.  Lansing Brook and Skinner Brook IIRC were originally crossed on trestle work; when filling the former became a culvert and the latter a bridge.
                           
                          Just how close can you approach reality in this program?  I have not yet seen any other productions in this genre but I'm wondering is it possible to approach the detail of some of the other video creations out there.  In my mind I can visualize approaching and running through Gloversville with true virtual reality in both directions.  I have enough photos, some I'm sure now that you have seen from Gino, which will enable you to recreate the buildings and grounds with a serious degree of reality.  The gentleman who is responsible for preserving the images of the complete physical FJ&G would love nothing more than to be able to travel it again.  It never entered his mind when he set out to preserve every aspect of the railroad that what you're doing today would be possible.  With his photos and those of a couple of his contemporaries, who though not as meticulous as he, we can today view the complete FJ&G millieu of the 50's and early 60's, its buildings and facilities from about every approachable angle.  Together with the valuation drawings every detail ought to be available for a complete virtual excursion - even down to the details of the diesel excursion trains.
                           
                          Where is your residence?  I am wondering how far you are from me here in St. Albans Vt.  I'd really like to see the FJ&G available as a "virtual reality."  Can sound be added?  For example could the sounds of an S-2, 44 tonner, and doodlebug be recorded then applied to the background?  Just a few ideas to achieve perfection in preserving not only the history but the reality of my favorite obsession. 
                           
                          Paul
                           
                           
                           


                          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          From: p.charlie@...
                          Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:28:16 -0500
                          Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] FJ&G on MSTS Update


                          Hi Paul,

                          Post away! I'll do what I can for the bridges I have in place and add
                          the remainder as I get further along the route.

                          I take it the first bridge would be the one just south of Route 5 in
                          Fonda (but I can't remember seeing and bridge marker for that one),
                          making High Bridge bridge 2?

                          I'm shotting for about 1955 to 1957 for the MSTS route.

                          Paul :-)

                          Paul Larner wrote:

                          > One of the reports I read somewhere here indicates the bridge signs
                          > had simply the bridge number, 1, 2, etc. Broadalbin never figured in
                          > the mileage of the FJ&G and so far as I know had no mile posts. As a
                          > leased line it had separate chainage starting at Broadalbin Jct. The
                          > mileages went Fonda to Northville after the concrete post were
                          > installed and, as I recall, the only letter designation was F (Fonda)
                          > and the mile number therefrom. Chainage was measured from Fonda
                          > commencing at at point sixty feet south of the points of the switch
                          > to the turntable; the points of the respective switch were used for
                          > measuring sidings and spurs.
                          >
                          > Cannot offer an explanation for that S 14.73 on the sign example used
                          > in Russell's article. There was never a bridge on the FJ&G steam
                          > line at mile 14.73 or 10.91 counting from both Fonda and Northville
                          > respectively. On the electric division that mileage from end of FJ&G
                          > track would be on the streets of Amsterdam. Mileages on the electric
                          > to Schenectady were designated G. Will have to do some looking to
                          > find electric division bridge designations - but that's not what
                          > you're looking for anyway. When you're ready let me know I'll give
                          > you the numbers as they changed over the years as bridges were
                          > converted to culverts.
                          >
                          > PKL




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                        • Paul Charland
                          Hi Paul, I ll keep a note of the bridge numbers from your message and place what I can now. I m in Brockville Ontario, about 125 mile west of St Albans. Loved
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 28, 2007
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                            Hi Paul,

                            I'll keep a note of the bridge numbers from your message and place what
                            I can now.

                            I'm in Brockville Ontario, about 125 mile west of St Albans. Loved
                            going there in the early 80's to shot the CV, LVRC, and VTR down in
                            Rutland, but lost interest when the CV was sold. Had an uncle living in
                            Chazy, NY during that time.

                            MSTS, when you run the S-2s, they will sound like S-2s, if you're in
                            Fonda and and NYC train passes, you will hear that too. There are
                            sounds for different factories but for the most part they're for noisy
                            foundries that I wouldn't use on this route. Birds chirping, cars
                            honking their horns, traffic stopping at crossings, gates lowering,
                            crossing lights flashing, crossing bells dinging, the sound of rushing
                            water, the different sound of going across a crossing, it's all there.
                            If you had the time and money you could photograph every structure along
                            the line and use the photos for textures to create your structures...
                            leading to the problem of not being able to photograph structures and
                            equipment that no longer exists. At this time there is no specific
                            sound files for the 44 tonner, it relies on the default sounds of a
                            GP-38. There are 44 tonners still out there, not sure why nobody has
                            taken the time to record one. Likewise for 340, Delaware and Ulster
                            still runs a Brill car with the same engine (I think), might be worth
                            someone's time to record it if it's still being used.

                            How realistic can you get? Hit a car at more then 4 mph and there's a
                            good change you'll put it on the ground. Aside from explore more, every
                            thing you do is based on an activity you have to create. What I hope to
                            do is to be able to do is to create a morning and afternoon activity for
                            the freight runs between Gloversville and Fonda. "AI" traffic in the
                            sim is controlled by what you set up in the activity such as passing NYC
                            trains through Fonda and the express runs 340 would do that you would
                            have to work around. There is an add-on called "BIN" that would allow
                            you to set 340 to leave the enginehouse, move along a path that you set
                            to the station, then to Johnstown for a stop, then to Fonda station for
                            a stop, back into the passing siding where the freight that you are
                            running would have a chance to get by and into the yard, then back to
                            the station, wait for the NYC passenger train to stop, then head back
                            north... all this has to be thought of and spelled out in the
                            activities. Fortunately once you set something like this up you can
                            keep using it. My goal is to create enough activities that you work the
                            freights for a complete month. I'm estimating the line handled in the
                            16 to 20 cars per day for mid fifties, and based on the number of
                            industries served, no two operating activities would ever be the same.
                            Some industries may only get one car in a month, some might get a car a
                            day, mix everything up and no two days would be the same.

                            As far as how realistic can you get visually, this is never going to get
                            to be movie quality. MSTS 2 is in the debugging stage now and they have
                            people working on it who would normally be doing animated type movies.
                            The screen shots are great but the average guy on the street who will be
                            making routes with this program doesn't have the bucks to do what these
                            guys are doing to promote the new version. Paying BNSF to allow them to
                            take a cherry picker around an engine to get hundreds of shots to create
                            a set of textures for an engine is a bit out of most peoples reach, but
                            it can be done and the end results look great.

                            I've wanted to model the FJ&G for 25 years, I'm looking at this as the
                            model railroad I have no space for. When it's finished I'll be able to
                            operate trains on it, make up a switch list and deliver cars to their
                            destinations. Hopefully I'll have done enough research and picked your
                            collective brains enough that some of you will be able to recognize
                            enough of what I've drawn to make you forget for a few minutes it's only
                            a simulation.

                            Now, I know some of you might be thinking about getting MSTS with
                            Christmas coming up. The FJ&G route will probably take another five or
                            six months to complete. You're all welcome to download the beta version
                            of the route as I upload them once in a while, the route has all the
                            trackage and scenery pretty complete to West Pine St. in Gloversville.
                            There are a couple of hundred free routes you can download, install, and
                            run. There are thousands of free rolling stock files you can use, there
                            are also payware routes, you can do more with this program then wait for
                            the FJ&G to be completed.

                            Paul :-)

                            Paul Larner wrote:
                            > Good morning Paul,
                            >
                            > Yes the bridge in Fonda was No. 1; No. 2 is the High Bridge; 3 near
                            > Washington Street in Johnstown, just north of the little coal shed;
                            > No. 4 is the one north of Harrison Street which washed out under a
                            > night extra freight and locomotive 12; No. 5, just south of Hill
                            > Street, mileage 8.5; No. 6, Below South Main Street, mileage 9.0. On
                            > the Broadalbin line No. 1 was the 11 foot span over Anthony Creek,
                            > mileage 0.6 on the branch and if mileage were figured from Fonda,
                            > 14.05; No. 2 at this time would be over Skinner Brook at mileage
                            > 17.4, south of the Johnstown Road crossing. Bridges 7, 8, 9, and 10
                            > were on the main line north of the junction.
                            >
                            > As point of reference there were originally other bridges that were
                            > converted to concrete box culverts, some fairly large. Original No.
                            > 4 was over the canal at Johnstown; there were also Nos. 7, 8, and 9
                            > which were in the yard at Gloversville. North of Gloversville
                            > (station) the bridges at Spring Street and just north of 8th Avenue
                            > had also been converted to culverts. On the branch there had also
                            > been a bridge at Kasson's creek, which became a culvert. Lansing
                            > Brook and Skinner Brook IIRC were originally crossed on trestle work;
                            > when filling the former became a culvert and the latter a bridge.
                            >
                            > Just how close can you approach reality in this program? I have not
                            > yet seen any other productions in this genre but I'm wondering is it
                            > possible to approach the detail of some of the other video creations
                            > out there. In my mind I can visualize approaching and running
                            > through Gloversville with true virtual reality in both directions. I
                            > have enough photos, some I'm sure now that you have seen from Gino,
                            > which will enable you to recreate the buildings and grounds with a
                            > serious degree of reality. The gentleman who is responsible for
                            > preserving the images of the complete physical FJ&G would love
                            > nothing more than to be able to travel it again. It never entered
                            > his mind when he set out to preserve every aspect of the railroad
                            > that what you're doing today would be possible. With his photos and
                            > those of a couple of his contemporaries, who though not as meticulous
                            > as he, we can today view the complete FJ&G millieu of the 50's and
                            > early 60's, its buildings and facilities from about every
                            > approachable angle. Together with the valuation drawings every
                            > detail ought to be available for a complete virtual excursion - even
                            > down to the details of the diesel excursion trains.
                            >
                            > Where is your residence? I am wondering how far you are from me here
                            > in St. Albans Vt. I'd really like to see the FJ&G available as a
                            > "virtual reality." Can sound be added? For example could the sounds
                            > of an S-2, 44 tonner, and doodlebug be recorded then applied to the
                            > background? Just a few ideas to achieve perfection in preserving not
                            > only the history but the reality of my favorite obsession.
                            >
                            > Paul
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