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RE: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

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  • Paul Larner
    The CERR was built in 1893. According to the Stranahan and Nichols 1868 atlas of Fulton County there were skin mills at that location. Suspect the
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 17, 2007
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      The CERR was built in 1893.  According to the Stranahan and Nichols 1868 atlas of Fulton County there were skin mills at that location.  Suspect the availability of a steady source of water was a reason for mills at that place.  

      A number of significant mills were located away from the railroad.  Other than coal the bulk of the freight that went in and out of Gloversville and Johnstown was handled through the freight houses or team tracks, as opposed to the concept of car load shipments to and from warehouses and loading doors on spur tracks.  Coal was handled through the Coal Company's coal houses.  Think of Mulligan and Higgins and Karg Bros. both good customers of the FJ&G, they drayed the bulk of there raw materials and product. 
       
      The "Back line", as it came to be known, was the Main Line of the CERR.   The relocations and construction of other routes with which we're more familiar were subsequent to the initial construction of the CERR; ie. the lines through Johnstown, Miller Street to King's Jct., the second track paralleling the steam line from Market Street to the Steam station and the route around Burr Hill.
       
      PKL 



      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      From: Gino.Dicarlo@...
      Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:28:19 -0500
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      The CERR was built  in 1898.  Did it use the path of the Backline that early?  I can't
      believe that mill has been there since the 1890s...
       
      Gino


      From: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FJGRailroad @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Paul Larner
      Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 9:52 AM
      To: fjgrailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      Not sure when the mill was built but would believe it may have been there before he electric line was built.  The Starr mill was also located closer to the electric line though they had a long siding from the Hill Street area back to bring in coal.  The back line was maintained to service the Hair Mill.   Interesting name "Back Line."  What we know as the back line was the eastbound main lline to King's Junction with the original CERR main line between King's and Johnstown Jct. seeing only work train and deadhead movements.  I can only surmise why the name arose.
      PKL




      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: Gino.Dicarlo@ qg.com
      Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:22:26 -0500
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      I didn't realize that the Parkhurst Mill was in operation as early as 1925.  I don't understand
      why they would build on the Electric Line and not the Steam.   Can I assume that service
      was switched over to the Steam Division after 1938?
       
      Gino


      From: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:FJGRailroad @yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Paul Larner
      Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:20 PM
      To: fjgrailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      It's a written record, not a photo; yes, a photo would be interesting.  The interchange in 1904 for cars destined the Hair Mill and other locations on the electric lines in the G&J area, which the records I have in front of me cover, was the Gravel Bed track near Hill Street.  It appears  cars were picked up and left there.  I find only one regular freight car handled in this year between Gloversville and Akin.  This was NYO&W 10718 taken from Gloversville to Amsterdam on 12/26/04 then brought from Amsterdam to Akin on 12/30/04.  Do not know who the shipper and consignee were; possibly the car was loaded with company material for this move.  Perhaps someone with an ancient equipment register can tell us what type of car was this NYO&W 10718.
       
      Parkhurst shipped wool, hair and shoddy: 994 cars in 1925, 723 cars in 1926. 
       
      My records are by no means complete - just gleanings.
       
      PKL



      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: fjgrailroad@ gmail.com
      Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 08:16:35 -0400
      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      Wow, I'd love to see a photo of the Electric loco with freight cars crossing
      the trestle in Tribes Hills. 
       
      Gino

       
      On 3/15/07, Paul Larner <pklarner@hotmail. com> wrote:

      Paul :-),
       
      Both would be correct. 
       
      As constructed the switch to the Parkhurst "Hair Mill" went in from the south, that is the points faced south or east.  Two of the  small ME Ry. locomotives, Mamie, used by the Cayadutta (don't find that this locomotive was ever "owned" by the FJ&GRR - recall that the CERR acquired control of the FJ&G, not consolidating the companies until 1902.), and the Oregon, purchased by the FJ&G with another unknown locomotive to run a competitive commuter service against the CERR,, were on the property for several years after the Cayadutta was completed and the lines came under single control, so I suppose they went up there to provide the freight service and deliver coal to the Johnstown power house.  BTW, I am of the opinion these locomotive were "numbered" 8, 9 and 11 , which explains the application of the No. 10 in 1893 and the use of 9 and 12  before an 8 was acquired in 1901.  At any rate two of these three lasted til 1898 and 1901 respectively - a story for another day.  After the Amsterdam extension was built I have a record of cars being delivered to the hair mill  by the electric locomotive from the interchange with the NY Central at Fort Johnson.
       
      IIRC the Parkhurst switch was reversed in the early sixties (before July 1963, when I went to work there, anyway).  Can't  locate a record of capitalization for the work so it must have been treated as merely a movement of the location with little or no significant amount of new material put  in.  I recall Tony Marotta telling me about installing the new location, especially about the stiff degree of curvature to get down by the loading sites.  I can believe it might have been earlier, at the time the arterial was extended beyond Johnstown in 1957 or shortly thereafter, as accomodating the highway may have shortened the tail track too much to be practicable.  If you're doing the fifties I'd show the switch with points facing south; the sixties points face north.
       
      PKL



      To: FJGRailroad@ yahoogroups. com
      From: p.charlie@sympatico .ca
      Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:23:24 -0400
      Subject: [FJGRailroad] Pankhurst Siding?

      Hi All,

      I have a question about the direction of the switch leading to the
      siding at Pankhurst. Did the switch begin at the north and the siding
      swing around about 120 degrees to the west... or... was the switch just
      south of the plant and the siding took about a 40 degree turn to the
      west (heading north).

      If you look at a USGS contour map the siding is shown coming from the
      south most part of the old electric line, you would have to run power
      first with Pankhurst's car trailing and back into the plant. The
      problem with this is there is no tail track south of the switch and
      there is a pond where the tail track would have to go. If you look on
      Google Earth there may be a switch from the north that would have the
      siding cranking around the eastern most building on a pretty sharp curve
      for about 120 degrees before a car length or two of straight track. You
      can make out the former branch but not truly the switch or beginning of
      the siding. I'm leaning towards this siding but am not 100% sure.

      Any help would be appreciated.

      Paul :-)


       








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