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Re: [FJGRailroad] From the Archives - Schenectady Locomotive Works

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  • joseph Klapkowski
    Thanks Paul. ... _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial!
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 26, 2006
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      Thanks Paul.


      >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] From the Archives - Schenectady Locomotive Works
      >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 18:46:38 -0500
      >
      >Hi Joe,
      >
      >The Adirondack and St. Lawrence became NYC's Adirondack Division from
      >Utica/Herkimer to Lake Placid and Ottawa. A bit of their history is at:
      >
      >http://adirondackalmanack.blogspot.com/2006/09/new-york-central-rr-adirondack-and-st.html
      >
      >Paul :-)
      >
      >joseph Klapkowski wrote:
      > > Awhile back, I acquired a whole bunch of paper builder's photos. These
      > > measure 16 x 4 1/2 and were printed by the Lithotype Print Co., 111
      >Nassua
      > > Street ,N.Y.
      > >
      > > There must be 25 photos here some with road names that I can not figure
      >out
      > > like the handsome photo of JSA&HR 4-4-0 passenger engine (Jacksonville
      >St.
      > > Aug & Halifax River? This line is listed as a 3 foot gauge in Edson,
      > > Railroad Names). This engne had a tractive effort of 1,234 lbs on a
      >level
      > > with 63" drivers. The Tender had a tank capacity of 2500 gallons.
      > >
      > > Another neat picture is of FE&MVR (Fremont, Elkhorn & Missouri Valley
      >later
      > > part of CNW) #208, a brawny looking 4-8-0 with 37 inch drivers, a
      >tractive
      > > effort of 1,994 and a tank capacity of 2100 gallons.
      > >
      > > There is also a photo of NYC&HRRR #94 a six wheel switching locomotive
      >with
      > > a tractive effort of 3,594 and 51 inch drivers.
      > >
      > > My favorite in the collection has to be of # 31, a 4-4-0 of the
      >Rochester &
      > > Lake Ontario Railway Company which looks like an inspection engine.
      >However
      > > the description notes that this is an eight wheel Forney locomotive for
      > > Suburban and Street Railway Traffic. This engine had 43 inch drivers and
      > > tractive effort of 1,118 with the rear tank holding 700 gallons (no
      >tender).
      > > There are cow catchers at both ends and the largest builders plate I
      >have
      > > ever seen on the side of the exposed boiler ahead of the carbody and a
      >huge
      > > boxy headlight that sits on a platform ahead of the number plate on the
      > > nose. Since this is a photo of only one side of the engine, I can not
      >tell
      > > you for sure, but it appears that there is only one way to climb aboard,
      > > that being from the front of the engine. There are seven large windows
      >along
      > > the carbody. There are headlights forward and rear. By the way this is
      >the
      > > ONLY engine that is listed as burning anthracite.
      > >
      > > Now having said all this I have finally come to the part that I get a
      >little
      > > confused about that actually started me think about this while I wa
      > > rummagging around in the archives. There are four photos of Adirondack &
      >St.
      > > Lawrence Ry Co. engines. Is this the Adirondack Railroad that became
      >part of
      > > the D&H or part of the RW&O or other later NYC lines ?
      > >
      > > Anyway the details are as follows:
      > >
      > > #1, 0-4-0 with 51 inch drivers and 2328 tractive effort with an eight
      >wheel
      > > sloping tender that has a capacity of 2,250 gallons and headlights front
      >and
      > > rear.
      > >
      > > Next are #11 and 12 but they are not identical.
      > >
      > > # 11 is a 4-4-0 and has 70 inch drivers, 1,472 TE and a tender with a
      >3600
      > > gallon capacity.
      > >
      > > # 12 is also a 4-4-0 with 64 inch drivers, 1,668 TE and a tender with
      >3200
      > > gallon capacity.
      > >
      > > Question - Is the Tender capacity an indictaion of whether or not the
      >engine
      > > is a road engine ?
      > >
      > > Last is #33 another brawny looking 4-6-0 with 57 inch drivers, 2,670 TE
      >and
      > > a tender with 3,600 gallon capacity.
      > >
      > > Now it is time to watch the second half of the GIANTS
      > > game.......................Oh I almost forgot, What's in your
      > > archives????????????????
      >

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    • paul larner
      Hello Joe, Was going to do a check the easy way from the ALCO files copied from the Schen. Hist. Soc but the first several pages were either misplaced or not
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 27, 2006
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        Hello Joe,

        Was going to do a check the easy way from the ALCO files copied from the
        Schen. Hist. Soc but the first several pages were either misplaced or not
        copied??? so I did it another way:

        The locomotive numbers and wheel arrangements match those owned by the A&StL
        but not the driving wheel diameter, except for No. 1. Let me give you the
        builders numbers to see if they correspond with those on the photos.
        Rebuilding could have resulted in altered wheel diameters.

        Not sure, off the top of my head, what other road would have used the A&StL
        initials.

        1 - CN# 3510; Blt. 1891
        11 - CN# 3593; Blt. 1892
        12 - CN# 3512; Blt. 1891
        33 - CN# 3723; Blt. 1892

        Each of these locomotives eventually saw service under CV, Rutland and NYCL
        after there time on the A&StL. My guess this later service was in upstate
        NY during the periods those other roads had their turn with what was the
        O&LC. H. Walter Webb, builder of the A&StL, allegedly to the chagrin of
        his father in law who had just acquired control of the RW&O, was a frequent
        visitor to the FJ&G during 1892 and 1893.

        The D&H connection confused me a bit because you mentioned the RW&O. The
        D&H inherited two railroads from the NY&OM in 1875, connecting to the RW&O
        but not in the Adirondacks. It was the line that became the DL&W's lines
        to Utica and Rome - Rome and Clinton and the Utica, Clinton and Binghamton.
        The Adirondack RR on the other hand, and other side of the mountains, was
        always the Adirondack until absorbed into the D&H. The A&St.L ran north
        from Herkimer, always allied with the NYC, never RW&O.. To the best of my
        knowledge the only connection A&StL had with any D&H lines was near Saranac
        Lake.

        Sources: "A Century of Progress: The History of the D&H Co."
        Henry Harter's, " Fairy Tale Railroad"

        Does that help or create more questions.

        PKL



        >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: dandh@yahoogroups.com, HudsonRiverRailLines@...,
        >FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] From the Archives - Schenectady Locomotive Works
        >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:03:59 +0000
        >
        >Awhile back, I acquired a whole bunch of paper builder's photos. These
        >measure 16 x 4 1/2 and were printed by the Lithotype Print Co., 111 Nassua
        >Street ,N.Y.
        >
        >There must be 25 photos here some with road names that I can not figure out
        >like the handsome photo of JSA&HR 4-4-0 passenger engine (Jacksonville St.
        >Aug & Halifax River? This line is listed as a 3 foot gauge in Edson,
        >Railroad Names). This engne had a tractive effort of 1,234 lbs on a level
        >with 63" drivers. The Tender had a tank capacity of 2500 gallons.
        >
        >Another neat picture is of FE&MVR (Fremont, Elkhorn & Missouri Valley later
        >part of CNW) #208, a brawny looking 4-8-0 with 37 inch drivers, a tractive
        >effort of 1,994 and a tank capacity of 2100 gallons.
        >
        >There is also a photo of NYC&HRRR #94 a six wheel switching locomotive with
        >a tractive effort of 3,594 and 51 inch drivers.
        >
        >My favorite in the collection has to be of # 31, a 4-4-0 of the Rochester &
        >Lake Ontario Railway Company which looks like an inspection engine. However
        >the description notes that this is an eight wheel Forney locomotive for
        >Suburban and Street Railway Traffic. This engine had 43 inch drivers and
        >tractive effort of 1,118 with the rear tank holding 700 gallons (no
        >tender).
        >There are cow catchers at both ends and the largest builders plate I have
        >ever seen on the side of the exposed boiler ahead of the carbody and a huge
        >boxy headlight that sits on a platform ahead of the number plate on the
        >nose. Since this is a photo of only one side of the engine, I can not tell
        >you for sure, but it appears that there is only one way to climb aboard,
        >that being from the front of the engine. There are seven large windows
        >along
        >the carbody. There are headlights forward and rear. By the way this is the
        >ONLY engine that is listed as burning anthracite.
        >
        >Now having said all this I have finally come to the part that I get a
        >little
        >confused about that actually started me think about this while I wa
        >rummagging around in the archives. There are four photos of Adirondack &
        >St.
        >Lawrence Ry Co. engines. Is this the Adirondack Railroad that became part
        >of
        >the D&H or part of the RW&O or other later NYC lines ?
        >
        >Anyway the details are as follows:
        >
        >#1, 0-4-0 with 51 inch drivers and 2328 tractive effort with an eight wheel
        >sloping tender that has a capacity of 2,250 gallons and headlights front
        >and
        >rear.
        >
        >Next are #11 and 12 but they are not identical.
        >
        ># 11 is a 4-4-0 and has 70 inch drivers, 1,472 TE and a tender with a 3600
        >gallon capacity.
        >
        ># 12 is also a 4-4-0 with 64 inch drivers, 1,668 TE and a tender with 3200
        >gallon capacity.
        >
        >Question - Is the Tender capacity an indictaion of whether or not the
        >engine
        >is a road engine ?
        >
        >Last is #33 another brawny looking 4-6-0 with 57 inch drivers, 2,670 TE
        >and
        >a tender with 3,600 gallon capacity.
        >
        >Now it is time to watch the second half of the GIANTS
        >game.......................Oh I almost forgot, What's in your
        >archives????????????????
        >
        >_________________________________________________________________
        >Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
        >list.
        >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk
        >
      • joseph Klapkowski
        You created some clarity. The name Adirondack & st. lawrence was spelled out on the tender. No doubt about the name. My confusion was whether the Adirondack
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 28, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          You created some clarity. The name Adirondack & st. lawrence was spelled out
          on the tender. No doubt about the name. My confusion was whether the
          Adirondack railroad was the same as the Adirondack & St. Lawrence..... can
          not account for the wheel diameter discrepancy....


          >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE: Schenectady Locomotive Works - A&StL
          >locomotives.
          >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 19:12:05 -0500
          >
          >Hello Joe,
          >
          >Was going to do a check the easy way from the ALCO files copied from the
          >Schen. Hist. Soc but the first several pages were either misplaced or not
          >copied??? so I did it another way:
          >
          >The locomotive numbers and wheel arrangements match those owned by the
          >A&StL
          >but not the driving wheel diameter, except for No. 1. Let me give you the
          >builders numbers to see if they correspond with those on the photos.
          >Rebuilding could have resulted in altered wheel diameters.
          >
          >Not sure, off the top of my head, what other road would have used the A&StL
          >initials.
          >
          > 1 - CN# 3510; Blt. 1891
          >11 - CN# 3593; Blt. 1892
          >12 - CN# 3512; Blt. 1891
          >33 - CN# 3723; Blt. 1892
          >
          >Each of these locomotives eventually saw service under CV, Rutland and NYCL
          >after there time on the A&StL. My guess this later service was in upstate
          >NY during the periods those other roads had their turn with what was the
          >O&LC. H. Walter Webb, builder of the A&StL, allegedly to the chagrin of
          >his father in law who had just acquired control of the RW&O, was a frequent
          >visitor to the FJ&G during 1892 and 1893.
          >
          >The D&H connection confused me a bit because you mentioned the RW&O. The
          >D&H inherited two railroads from the NY&OM in 1875, connecting to the RW&O
          >but not in the Adirondacks. It was the line that became the DL&W's lines
          >to Utica and Rome - Rome and Clinton and the Utica, Clinton and Binghamton.
          >The Adirondack RR on the other hand, and other side of the mountains, was
          >always the Adirondack until absorbed into the D&H. The A&St.L ran north
          >from Herkimer, always allied with the NYC, never RW&O.. To the best of my
          >knowledge the only connection A&StL had with any D&H lines was near Saranac
          >Lake.
          >
          >Sources: "A Century of Progress: The History of the D&H Co."
          > Henry Harter's, " Fairy Tale Railroad"
          >
          >Does that help or create more questions.
          >
          >PKL
          >
          >
          >
          > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: dandh@yahoogroups.com, HudsonRiverRailLines@...,
          > >FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] From the Archives - Schenectady Locomotive Works
          > >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 23:03:59 +0000
          > >
          > >Awhile back, I acquired a whole bunch of paper builder's photos. These
          > >measure 16 x 4 1/2 and were printed by the Lithotype Print Co., 111
          >Nassua
          > >Street ,N.Y.
          > >
          > >There must be 25 photos here some with road names that I can not figure
          >out
          > >like the handsome photo of JSA&HR 4-4-0 passenger engine (Jacksonville
          >St.
          > >Aug & Halifax River? This line is listed as a 3 foot gauge in Edson,
          > >Railroad Names). This engne had a tractive effort of 1,234 lbs on a level
          > >with 63" drivers. The Tender had a tank capacity of 2500 gallons.
          > >
          > >Another neat picture is of FE&MVR (Fremont, Elkhorn & Missouri Valley
          >later
          > >part of CNW) #208, a brawny looking 4-8-0 with 37 inch drivers, a
          >tractive
          > >effort of 1,994 and a tank capacity of 2100 gallons.
          > >
          > >There is also a photo of NYC&HRRR #94 a six wheel switching locomotive
          >with
          > >a tractive effort of 3,594 and 51 inch drivers.
          > >
          > >My favorite in the collection has to be of # 31, a 4-4-0 of the Rochester
          >&
          > >Lake Ontario Railway Company which looks like an inspection engine.
          >However
          > >the description notes that this is an eight wheel Forney locomotive for
          > >Suburban and Street Railway Traffic. This engine had 43 inch drivers and
          > >tractive effort of 1,118 with the rear tank holding 700 gallons (no
          > >tender).
          > >There are cow catchers at both ends and the largest builders plate I have
          > >ever seen on the side of the exposed boiler ahead of the carbody and a
          >huge
          > >boxy headlight that sits on a platform ahead of the number plate on the
          > >nose. Since this is a photo of only one side of the engine, I can not
          >tell
          > >you for sure, but it appears that there is only one way to climb aboard,
          > >that being from the front of the engine. There are seven large windows
          > >along
          > >the carbody. There are headlights forward and rear. By the way this is
          >the
          > >ONLY engine that is listed as burning anthracite.
          > >
          > >Now having said all this I have finally come to the part that I get a
          > >little
          > >confused about that actually started me think about this while I wa
          > >rummagging around in the archives. There are four photos of Adirondack &
          > >St.
          > >Lawrence Ry Co. engines. Is this the Adirondack Railroad that became part
          > >of
          > >the D&H or part of the RW&O or other later NYC lines ?
          > >
          > >Anyway the details are as follows:
          > >
          > >#1, 0-4-0 with 51 inch drivers and 2328 tractive effort with an eight
          >wheel
          > >sloping tender that has a capacity of 2,250 gallons and headlights front
          > >and
          > >rear.
          > >
          > >Next are #11 and 12 but they are not identical.
          > >
          > ># 11 is a 4-4-0 and has 70 inch drivers, 1,472 TE and a tender with a
          >3600
          > >gallon capacity.
          > >
          > ># 12 is also a 4-4-0 with 64 inch drivers, 1,668 TE and a tender with
          >3200
          > >gallon capacity.
          > >
          > >Question - Is the Tender capacity an indictaion of whether or not the
          > >engine
          > >is a road engine ?
          > >
          > >Last is #33 another brawny looking 4-6-0 with 57 inch drivers, 2,670 TE
          > >and
          > >a tender with 3,600 gallon capacity.
          > >
          > >Now it is time to watch the second half of the GIANTS
          > >game.......................Oh I almost forgot, What's in your
          > >archives????????????????
          > >
          > >_________________________________________________________________
          > >Stay up-to-date with your friends through the Windows Live Spaces friends
          > >list.
          > >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk
          > >
          >
          >

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