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RE: [FJGRailroad] Feeding Steam

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  • paul larner
    Good morning Paul, I started a reply, then while digging out answers I lost the message. Will try again without all the quotes and just give you the skinny. I
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
      Good morning Paul,

      I started a reply, then while digging out answers I lost the message. Will
      try again without all the quotes and just give you the skinny.

      I am surprised that there are no pictures of the large coal facilities on
      the FJ&G; probabl;y because there were none. FJ&G locomotives were fueld at
      Fonda from the beginning, later Gloversville and then also at Northville.
      The Fonda facility was located off the turntable lead drawing coal from cars
      placed on the track crossing the lead on the diamond. Coal was hand
      shovelled into the tenders until 1889 when the company put in a hoist and
      bucket system.

      072082 RIOT � A riot on a small scale occurred at Fonda, Tuesday between the
      striking employees of the F. J. & G. R. R. Company. It grew out of the
      willing disposition of one of them to proceed with his work, being engaged
      in heaving coal into the tender of an engine. Being remonstrated with he
      refused to quit, whereupon the rest of the gang set upon him and gave him a
      severe beating.

      101789 The F. J. & G. have put up a large crane for the loading of coal on
      their locomotives at Fonda. (DL)

      In Gloversville coaling engines was similarly ar hand job. Coal would be
      dumped or shovelled out onto the ground or into sheds then hand loaded in to
      the tenders. The round house at Gloversville was always in the same
      location. Until the building of the south roundhouse I suspect coaling was
      done south of the turntable location from the ground. LAter coaling was
      done from teh ground or from caol hoppers on a track located roughly where
      the track into the new carpenter shop (1911) lay. There was a team track
      east of that track where coal hoppers and other cars were spotted. Later,
      probably after 1911 and until the end of steam on teh FJ&G the tenders were
      filled on the track leading into the old coach house. Coal was dumped on
      the ground and shoveled, hoisted and lastly conveyored in to the tenders.

      At Northville coal was similarly hand shovelled into the tenders. Coal was
      stored in the original two stall engine house and also in a shed adjacent to
      the engine house.

      Water was taken at Fonda, Gloversville and Northville. The NYC stands were
      used at Fonda adjacent the little FJ&G yard west toward the bridge. In
      Gloversville water was first supplied by a tub system in the old round
      house. Water was pumped into the tub then flowed in to the tenders. Best I
      can determine water would be taken while standing on the tarck adjacent to
      the round house but have no pictures except one poor one of No. 4 standing
      next to the building. Northvile also used a tub system in the original
      roundhouse.

      After the fire destroyed to original Northville roundhouse, a water tower
      was erected beside the new engine house, now only a single stall. This can
      be seen in the postcard of the Northville facility titled "Train Arriving
      Sacandaga Park".

      With the building of a new roundhouse on the site of the original roundhouse
      in Gloversville the tub system was discontinued. At this time arrangements
      wer made with the city of Gloversville to supply water to a stand pipe
      located between W. Fulton Street and the crossover switch from the "Main" to
      the "Northville." This too lasted until the end of steam.

      Plans were discussed for placing a standpipe in Johnstown but nothing came
      of it. The city fathers were afraid of breaking pipes with the shutoff of
      so great a flow.

      For a short, very short, while the company may have coaled and watered (from
      the creek) engines at Broadalbin. As winter approached and there being no
      roundhouse or turntable at Broadalbin yet, the engines were soon run back to
      Gloversville for the night and presumably the trains also. This lasted just
      over a year when, in November 1896, the service was changed to the first
      train originating at, and the last train terminating at, Gloversville.
      Interestingly that pattern for the first train is the pattern that continued
      to the end of passenger service in 1956.

      There was as ahs pit at Gloversville on the coaling track. This was built
      later (near the turn of the 20th century + or - a few years) previously the
      ashes were handle from the ground. They would be placed on flat cars, taken
      out and dumped along the right of way.

      Did that answer your question? Once I get settled down here I will be
      completing my book. The first volume is supposed to be in edit now (it's a
      part time job and haven't heard back in the past couple weeks.).

      PKL

      >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Feeding Steam
      >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:56:40 -0400
      >
      >Hi All,
      >
      >I was looking through the FJ&G shots I have collected over the last few
      >years and started to wonder about something. All the coal that the FJ&G
      >hauled for all their customers, what about the coal needed to feed the
      >steamers over the years... I didn't see any coaling facilities or an ash
      >pit for use by the steam engines. Can't say I seen a water tank or even
      >a stand pipe in any of the shots either. Just looked on Gino's site and
      >nothing appeared in those shots either.
      >
      >Am I just missing something in the background or maybe there were no
      >"formal" facilities. I did see one of the early steamers beside a
      >gondola of coal and the tender and gondola were the same height making
      >it possible coal was manually shoveled into the tender from the gon,
      >would appear that No. 11's tender was also low, but No. 14s was built up
      >to almost the height of the cab roof pretty much ending that theory.
      >
      >Anyone know the real method of coaling and dumping the ashes on the FJ&G?
      >
      >Paul :-)
      >
    • Paul Charland
      Hi Gino, Guess this was all armstrong coaling. I zoomed in on an old Fonda Yard Map I think Saul or Paul posted to the list years ago and found a small
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
        Hi Gino,

        Guess this was all "armstrong" coaling. I zoomed in on an old Fonda
        Yard Map I think Saul or Paul posted to the list years ago and found a
        small triangular shaped thingie just west of the switch leading to the
        Fonda turntable labeled "Coal Platform". I guess that makes the
        stopping beside a gondola load of coal a probability as well. Can you
        imaging having to hand shovel 50 tons of coal from a gon to a tender to
        start your day!

        Paul :-)

        Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
        > Paul,
        >
        > There was a water plug on the south side of Fulton Street. I have a
        > Picture somewhere, I guess it's not on the site. Also, there was an
        > Ash pit on the West Side of Gloversville Yard. I know there was a
        > Water tower in Northville, but I can't think of any other ones!
        >
        > Gino
      • Aaron Keller
        I have a photo which shows two hoppers of coal on the far west track near the coach shed in Gloversville... and you can barely see the conveyor. This is a
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
          I have a photo which shows two hoppers of coal on the far west track near
          the coach shed in Gloversville... and you can barely see the conveyor.
          This is a relatively popular photo taken during the 1949(?) fan trip.

          I have another photo which shows No. 8 next to what appears to be a coal
          loading facilitiy. It's labeled Gloversville but I can't seem to place it.
          Paul Larner --- maybe you know the picture. Behind the locomotive is a
          pile of coal at least as high as the top of No. 8's boiler; and at least as
          long as the locomotive. Sticking out of the coal is a series of what
          appears to be wooden trusses holding a metal track, attached to which is
          some sort of bucket. Is this in fact a Gloversville picture?
          (Unfortuately I don't have a scanner here).

          I also have a photo of No. 9 approaching Kingsboro Avenue. There is a coal
          conveyor facing the tracks near the coal tubes. Not sure why this was
          here.

          -Aaron
        • Paul Charland
          Hi Paul and Aaron, Thanks for a great explanation. While drawing the original layout I seen hundreds of photos but as I was drawing a diesel layout it just
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
            Hi Paul and Aaron,

            Thanks for a great explanation. While drawing the original layout I
            seen hundreds of photos but as I was drawing a diesel layout it just
            never occurred to me that there was nothing in the background for
            servicing steam... well maybe there was... I'll have to have a look
            again now that I have an idea what to look for.

            Paul :-)

            paul larner wrote:
            > Good morning Paul,
            >
            > I started a reply, then while digging out answers I lost the message. Will
            > try again without all the quotes and just give you the skinny.
            >
            > I am surprised that there are no pictures of the large coal facilities on
            > the FJ&G; probabl;y because there were none. FJ&G locomotives were fueld at
            > Fonda from the beginning, later Gloversville and then also at Northville.
            > The Fonda facility was located off the turntable lead drawing coal from cars
            > placed on the track crossing the lead on the diamond. Coal was hand
            > shovelled into the tenders until 1889 when the company put in a hoist and
            > bucket system.
            >
            > 072082 RIOT – A riot on a small scale occurred at Fonda, Tuesday between the
            > striking employees of the F. J. & G. R. R. Company. It grew out of the
            > willing disposition of one of them to proceed with his work, being engaged
            > in heaving coal into the tender of an engine. Being remonstrated with he
            > refused to quit, whereupon the rest of the gang set upon him and gave him a
            > severe beating.
            >
            > 101789 The F. J. & G. have put up a large crane for the loading of coal on
            > their locomotives at Fonda. (DL)
            >
            > In Gloversville coaling engines was similarly ar hand job. Coal would be
            > dumped or shovelled out onto the ground or into sheds then hand loaded in to
            > the tenders. The round house at Gloversville was always in the same
            > location. Until the building of the south roundhouse I suspect coaling was
            > done south of the turntable location from the ground. LAter coaling was
            > done from teh ground or from caol hoppers on a track located roughly where
            > the track into the new carpenter shop (1911) lay. There was a team track
            > east of that track where coal hoppers and other cars were spotted. Later,
            > probably after 1911 and until the end of steam on teh FJ&G the tenders were
            > filled on the track leading into the old coach house. Coal was dumped on
            > the ground and shoveled, hoisted and lastly conveyored in to the tenders.
            >
            > At Northville coal was similarly hand shovelled into the tenders. Coal was
            > stored in the original two stall engine house and also in a shed adjacent to
            > the engine house.
            >
            > Water was taken at Fonda, Gloversville and Northville. The NYC stands were
            > used at Fonda adjacent the little FJ&G yard west toward the bridge. In
            > Gloversville water was first supplied by a tub system in the old round
            > house. Water was pumped into the tub then flowed in to the tenders. Best I
            > can determine water would be taken while standing on the tarck adjacent to
            > the round house but have no pictures except one poor one of No. 4 standing
            > next to the building. Northvile also used a tub system in the original
            > roundhouse.
            >
            > After the fire destroyed to original Northville roundhouse, a water tower
            > was erected beside the new engine house, now only a single stall. This can
            > be seen in the postcard of the Northville facility titled "Train Arriving
            > Sacandaga Park".
            >
            > With the building of a new roundhouse on the site of the original roundhouse
            > in Gloversville the tub system was discontinued. At this time arrangements
            > wer made with the city of Gloversville to supply water to a stand pipe
            > located between W. Fulton Street and the crossover switch from the "Main" to
            > the "Northville." This too lasted until the end of steam.
            >
            > Plans were discussed for placing a standpipe in Johnstown but nothing came
            > of it. The city fathers were afraid of breaking pipes with the shutoff of
            > so great a flow.
            >
            > For a short, very short, while the company may have coaled and watered (from
            > the creek) engines at Broadalbin. As winter approached and there being no
            > roundhouse or turntable at Broadalbin yet, the engines were soon run back to
            > Gloversville for the night and presumably the trains also. This lasted just
            > over a year when, in November 1896, the service was changed to the first
            > train originating at, and the last train terminating at, Gloversville.
            > Interestingly that pattern for the first train is the pattern that continued
            > to the end of passenger service in 1956.
            >
            > There was as ahs pit at Gloversville on the coaling track. This was built
            > later (near the turn of the 20th century + or - a few years) previously the
            > ashes were handle from the ground. They would be placed on flat cars, taken
            > out and dumped along the right of way.
            >
            > Did that answer your question? Once I get settled down here I will be
            > completing my book. The first volume is supposed to be in edit now (it's a
            > part time job and haven't heard back in the past couple weeks.).
            >
            > PKL
          • paul larner
            Yes. I wrote a reply this morning (twice again) but haven t seen it here yet. When it hits the site I expect it will provoke more questions. PKL
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
              Yes. I wrote a reply this morning (twice again) but haven't seen it here
              yet. When it hits the site I expect it will provoke more questions.

              PKL


              >From: "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@...>
              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Feeding Steam
              >Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 12:27:46 -0500
              >
              >I have a photo which shows two hoppers of coal on the far west track near
              >the coach shed in Gloversville... and you can barely see the conveyor.
              >This is a relatively popular photo taken during the 1949(?) fan trip.
              >
              >I have another photo which shows No. 8 next to what appears to be a coal
              >loading facilitiy. It's labeled Gloversville but I can't seem to place it.
              >Paul Larner --- maybe you know the picture. Behind the locomotive is a
              >pile of coal at least as high as the top of No. 8's boiler; and at least as
              >long as the locomotive. Sticking out of the coal is a series of what
              >appears to be wooden trusses holding a metal track, attached to which is
              >some sort of bucket. Is this in fact a Gloversville picture?
              >(Unfortuately I don't have a scanner here).
              >
              >I also have a photo of No. 9 approaching Kingsboro Avenue. There is a coal
              >conveyor facing the tracks near the coal tubes. Not sure why this was
              >here.
              >
              >-Aaron
              >
              >
              >
              >Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
              >Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
              >http://www.lostlandmarks.org
              >Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
              >http://ny.existingstations.com/
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Paul Charland
              Hi Paul, Your reply did show up on the list at 12:28 this afternoon. I replied to it and Aaron s reply at 4:31. My mail and news group messages have been
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
                Hi Paul,

                Your reply did show up on the list at 12:28 this afternoon. I replied
                to it and Aaron's reply at 4:31.

                My mail and news group messages have been acting strange in the past
                couple of days, maybe there is a larger problem out there if you are
                having problems too.

                Paul :-)

                paul larner wrote:
                > Yes. I wrote a reply this morning (twice again) but haven't seen it here
                > yet. When it hits the site I expect it will provoke more questions.
                >
                > PKL
              • paul larner
                Nope haven t seen it yet. It could be my server doesn t work friendly with Yahoo all the time; I have another site that seems to lose threads of a message
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 12, 2006
                  Nope haven't seen it yet. It could be my server doesn't work friendly with
                  Yahoo all the time; I have another site that seems to lose threads of a
                  message series. If that answer earlier didn't cover your questions, tell me
                  what you need.

                  PKL


                  >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Feeding Steam
                  >Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:06:31 -0400
                  >
                  >Hi Paul,
                  >
                  >Your reply did show up on the list at 12:28 this afternoon. I replied
                  >to it and Aaron's reply at 4:31.
                  >
                  >My mail and news group messages have been acting strange in the past
                  >couple of days, maybe there is a larger problem out there if you are
                  >having problems too.
                  >
                  >Paul :-)
                  >
                  >paul larner wrote:
                  > > Yes. I wrote a reply this morning (twice again) but haven't seen it
                  >here
                  > > yet. When it hits the site I expect it will provoke more questions.
                  > >
                  > > PKL
                  >
                  >
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