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Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Trees along the FJ&G

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  • Paul Charland
    Hi Mike, Coming at you! As for the mail contract, someone else is going to have to tell us. My guess would be some time around 1958ish but it s only a guess.
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 7, 2006
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      Hi Mike,

      Coming at you!

      As for the mail contract, someone else is going to have to tell us. My
      guess would be some time around 1958ish but it's only a guess.

      Paul :-)

      Mike Clifford wrote:
      > Hi Paul. If its possible I would like to see the small shelf drawing
      > and the modest bedroom drawing.
      > I am also wondering what year the FJ&G lost their mail contract.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Mike Clifford
    • paul larner
      Mail contract was lost in the fall of 1964 if I recall correctly. We expected to be bumped by a couple of the driers but they had failed to keep up their
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 7, 2006
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        Mail contract was lost in the fall of 1964 if I recall correctly. We
        expected to be bumped by a couple of the driers but they had failed to keep
        up their union membership when they left the craft; thus we held our jobs.

        PKL


        >From: "Mike Clifford" <mbcliff@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Re: Trees along the FJ&G
        >Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 16:56:40 -0000
        >
        >Hi Paul. If its possible I would like to see the small shelf drawing
        >and the modest bedroom drawing.
        >I am also wondering what year the FJ&G lost their mail contract.
        >
        >Thanks,
        >Mike Clifford
        >
        >
        >--- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi All,
        > >
        > > Not being a "local" I didn't jump on this one but guessed from the many
        > > photos I have what the answer would be.
        > >
        > > As Gino says, I have drawn several versions of the FJ&G in N scale from
        > > a small shelf switching layout of Johnstown, to a modest bedroom layout
        > > to a serious basement layout. If anyone in interested in having a look
        > > at any of these you are more then welcome.
        > >
        > > Paul :-)
        > >
        > > Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
        > >
        > > > Hi Skip,
        > > >
        > > > That's cool, the FJ&G in N-Scale. How much of the line will you do?
        > > > You should talk to Paul Charland, our resident 'V-Scale' expert. He
        > > > Has designed an awesome FJ&G layout for N-Scale and has also come up
        > > > With a neat little Johnstown Layout that would be circa-1950. I was
        > > > Thinking of doing this, but gave up on N-Scale.
        > > >
        > > > If you're looking to do a smaller layout, ask Paul to send you the
        >plan
        > > > For the FJ&G in Johnstown. As for trees, I lived on the FJ&G and all
        > > > I can identify is Maples, oaks and pines. I know there were plenty of
        > > > those.
        > > >
        > > > Good luck with the layout!
        > > >
        > > > Gino
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Paul Charland
        Hi Paul, When was mail bumped off the rails... as in the last run of 340? Many years ago I had my hands on a 1960ish article in Trains that showed 340 at
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 7, 2006
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          Hi Paul,

          When was mail bumped off the rails... as in the last run of 340? Many
          years ago I had my hands on a 1960ish article in Trains that showed 340
          at Gloversville transferring mail and express to one of the highway
          trucks for Northville. There was no date on the shot so you would have
          to think it was "current" to the writing of the article but Trains could
          have easily sat on the transcript for a year or two before publishing
          the article.

          Paul :-)

          paul larner wrote:
          > Mail contract was lost in the fall of 1964 if I recall correctly. We
          > expected to be bumped by a couple of the driers but they had failed to keep
          > up their union membership when they left the craft; thus we held our jobs.
          >
          > PKL
        • paul larner
          Evening Paul, I started a quick reply with indefinites then decided to do some checking to supply dates. The following information is from annual reports, ETT
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 7, 2006
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            Evening Paul,

            I started a quick reply with indefinites then decided to do some checking to
            supply dates. The following information is from annual reports, ETT and
            newspapers.

            The FJ&G railroad started trucking the mail when the line to Northville went
            out March 1930. That would be to all stations north of Gloversville. Off
            the top of my head I think the Broadalbin mail was delivered from Amsterdam.
            From the employee timetables it appears that trucks operating between
            Fonda and Gloversville were handling the mail at the demise of the trolley
            service. The ETT's indicate more daily truck trips between Gloversville and
            Fonda than gas car; also the gas car didn't run on Sundays and holidays.
            Every indication I find is that the gas car carried mail, well complimented
            by truck service. The use of the gas car seems to have been primarily
            Railway Express. Follows is the newspaper report of the authorization to
            buy the gas car:

            061638 "New Gas-Electric Car to Carry Baggage Over FJG Steam Line �
            Authorization for the purchase of a gasoline-electric car for the
            transportation of mail, express and baggage over the steam line as a
            substitute for similar service now carried over the electric division
            between Fonda and Gloversville was granted to the F., J. & G. Railroad in
            Federal Court at Syracuse yesterday.

            "J. Ledlie Hees, trustee of the railroad, said that the new car will be
            placed in service shortly after July 1 and will operate over the tracks of
            the steam division. Application for authority to make the purchase was
            filed with Federal Judge Frederick Bryant by Wes H. Maider, attorney for the
            railroad.

            "The car is 73 feet long and weighs approximately fifty tons, being driven
            by two 150 horsepower gasoline engines to generate its own electric power.
            It may be operated from either end and provides 55 feet of space for
            carrying mail and baggage.

            "It also is capable of drawing regulation railway equipment behind it in
            case of necessity. It is manufactured by the American Car and Foundry
            Company."

            The next couple quotes indicate by 1948 the car was considered an express
            car, not mail.

            092848 #9 is out on the express run while #340 is in for overhaul. Probably
            #9 will be out for a week or so. 21 and 20 are both out. Last week #20 was
            in the shop. #9 didn�t make the night express run; #21 and the baggage car
            made the trip.

            101848 #340 Express car was out today for the first in about three weeks she
            is gainly decked out in the company�s standard colors of orange, yellow, and
            a black trim. Her motor sounds as if the overhaul did some good.

            102548 #21 took a railway express car as well as combine #22 down on night
            run in place of #340. What is wrong with the 340 is not yet known.

            Reading through the news accounts I doubt the mail was carried on the gas
            car; it s service was not dependable enough for the US Mail.

            Dates of interest:

            1958 - trucks substituted for gas car for Ry. Express (assume that all mail
            was by truck at this date?);

            7/18/1960 Ry. Express stops using the railroad, substituting their own
            trucks;

            between 4/1/1964 and 4/24/1968 REA used the railroad truck to handle their
            business.

            The FJ&G lost the mail contract September 11, 1964.

            Effective October 1, 1964, LCL was no longer handled through the company's
            freight house. This latter coincided with the NYC giving up LCL service
            over Fonda.

            PKL

            >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Trees along the FJ&G
            >Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2006 17:19:50 -0400
            >
            >Hi Paul,
            >
            >When was mail bumped off the rails... as in the last run of 340? Many
            >years ago I had my hands on a 1960ish article in Trains that showed 340
            >at Gloversville transferring mail and express to one of the highway
            >trucks for Northville. There was no date on the shot so you would have
            >to think it was "current" to the writing of the article but Trains could
            >have easily sat on the transcript for a year or two before publishing
            >the article.
            >
            >Paul :-)
            >
            >paul larner wrote:
            > > Mail contract was lost in the fall of 1964 if I recall correctly. We
            > > expected to be bumped by a couple of the driers but they had failed to
            >keep
            > > up their union membership when they left the craft; thus we held our
            >jobs.
            > >
            > > PKL
            >
          • Paul Charland
            Hi Paul, Thanks for the time line on the mail and express business, must have been express business being exchanged in the photo I saw years ago. Does anyone
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 8, 2006
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              Hi Paul,

              Thanks for the time line on the mail and express business, must have
              been express business being exchanged in the photo I saw years ago.

              Does anyone have a shot of one of these highway trucks? The shot was
              black and white and appeared to be an orange carbody with a cream
              rectangle outlined with a black pin stripe and had black lettering...

              FONDA JOHNSTOWN AND GLOVERSVILLE
              MAIL - EXPRESS - FREIGHT

              ...sort of thing.

              One interesting thing that appeared in the description of 340 was the
              claim the car was being built by American Car and Foundry Company. The
              car was actually a Brill car built in St. Louis, MO. There may have
              been a chance the carbody was subcontracted and built by AC&F, but it's
              an 'off the shelf' Brill car that was bought by several other railroads
              as well... see this Northeast Railfan page to see the 340 and several
              other examples of the Brill gas-electrics:

              http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop4.html

              Paul :-)

              paul larner wrote:

              > Evening Paul,
              >
              > I started a quick reply with indefinites then decided to do some checking to
              > supply dates. The following information is from annual reports, ETT and
              > newspapers.
              >
              > The FJ&G railroad started trucking the mail when the line to Northville went
              > out March 1930. That would be to all stations north of Gloversville. Off
              > the top of my head I think the Broadalbin mail was delivered from Amsterdam.
              > From the employee timetables it appears that trucks operating between
              > Fonda and Gloversville were handling the mail at the demise of the trolley
              > service. The ETT's indicate more daily truck trips between Gloversville and
              > Fonda than gas car; also the gas car didn't run on Sundays and holidays.
              > Every indication I find is that the gas car carried mail, well complimented
              > by truck service. The use of the gas car seems to have been primarily
              > Railway Express. Follows is the newspaper report of the authorization to
              > buy the gas car:
              >
              > 061638 "New Gas-Electric Car to Carry Baggage Over FJG Steam Line –
              > Authorization for the purchase of a gasoline-electric car for the
              > transportation of mail, express and baggage over the steam line as a
              > substitute for similar service now carried over the electric division
              > between Fonda and Gloversville was granted to the F., J. & G. Railroad in
              > Federal Court at Syracuse yesterday.
              >
              > "J. Ledlie Hees, trustee of the railroad, said that the new car will be
              > placed in service shortly after July 1 and will operate over the tracks of
              > the steam division. Application for authority to make the purchase was
              > filed with Federal Judge Frederick Bryant by Wes H. Maider, attorney for the
              > railroad.
              >
              > "The car is 73 feet long and weighs approximately fifty tons, being driven
              > by two 150 horsepower gasoline engines to generate its own electric power.
              > It may be operated from either end and provides 55 feet of space for
              > carrying mail and baggage.
              >
              > "It also is capable of drawing regulation railway equipment behind it in
              > case of necessity. It is manufactured by the American Car and Foundry
              > Company."
              >
              > The next couple quotes indicate by 1948 the car was considered an express
              > car, not mail.
              >
              > 092848 #9 is out on the express run while #340 is in for overhaul. Probably
              > #9 will be out for a week or so. 21 and 20 are both out. Last week #20 was
              > in the shop. #9 didn’t make the night express run; #21 and the baggage car
              > made the trip.
              >
              > 101848 #340 Express car was out today for the first in about three weeks she
              > is gainly decked out in the company’s standard colors of orange, yellow, and
              > a black trim. Her motor sounds as if the overhaul did some good.
              >
              > 102548 #21 took a railway express car as well as combine #22 down on night
              > run in place of #340. What is wrong with the 340 is not yet known.
              >
              > Reading through the news accounts I doubt the mail was carried on the gas
              > car; it s service was not dependable enough for the US Mail.
              >
              > Dates of interest:
              >
              > 1958 - trucks substituted for gas car for Ry. Express (assume that all mail
              > was by truck at this date?);
              >
              > 7/18/1960 Ry. Express stops using the railroad, substituting their own
              > trucks;
              >
              > between 4/1/1964 and 4/24/1968 REA used the railroad truck to handle their
              > business.
              >
              > The FJ&G lost the mail contract September 11, 1964.
              >
              > Effective October 1, 1964, LCL was no longer handled through the company's
              > freight house. This latter coincided with the NYC giving up LCL service
              > over Fonda.
              >
              > PKL
            • paul larner
              Paul, I suspect at the time permission was received to acquire a car that they may have had a new car in mind; note also the reference to two engines, etc.
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 8, 2006
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                Paul, I suspect at the time permission was received to acquire a car that
                they may have had a new car in mind; note also the reference to two engines,
                etc. Definitely not the car they eventually purchased. It is interesting
                to note that when the FJ&G came out of receivership the diesels and busses
                were acquired for cash.

                You are correct that the trucks were painted in the orange, cream and black
                FJ&G color scheme.

                PKL


                >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Mail, Express and No. 340
                >Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 07:22:19 -0400
                >
                >Hi Paul,
                >
                >Thanks for the time line on the mail and express business, must have
                >been express business being exchanged in the photo I saw years ago.
                >
                >Does anyone have a shot of one of these highway trucks? The shot was
                >black and white and appeared to be an orange carbody with a cream
                >rectangle outlined with a black pin stripe and had black lettering...
                >
                >FONDA JOHNSTOWN AND GLOVERSVILLE
                > MAIL - EXPRESS - FREIGHT
                >
                >...sort of thing.
                >
                >One interesting thing that appeared in the description of 340 was the
                >claim the car was being built by American Car and Foundry Company. The
                >car was actually a Brill car built in St. Louis, MO. There may have
                >been a chance the carbody was subcontracted and built by AC&F, but it's
                >an 'off the shelf' Brill car that was bought by several other railroads
                >as well... see this Northeast Railfan page to see the 340 and several
                >other examples of the Brill gas-electrics:
                >
                >http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop4.html
                >
                >Paul :-)
                >
                >paul larner wrote:
                >
                > > Evening Paul,
                > >
                > > I started a quick reply with indefinites then decided to do some
                >checking to
                > > supply dates. The following information is from annual reports, ETT and
                > > newspapers.
                > >
                > > The FJ&G railroad started trucking the mail when the line to Northville
                >went
                > > out March 1930. That would be to all stations north of Gloversville.
                >Off
                > > the top of my head I think the Broadalbin mail was delivered from
                >Amsterdam.
                > > From the employee timetables it appears that trucks operating between
                > > Fonda and Gloversville were handling the mail at the demise of the
                >trolley
                > > service. The ETT's indicate more daily truck trips between Gloversville
                >and
                > > Fonda than gas car; also the gas car didn't run on Sundays and holidays.
                > > Every indication I find is that the gas car carried mail, well
                >complimented
                > > by truck service. The use of the gas car seems to have been primarily
                > > Railway Express. Follows is the newspaper report of the authorization
                >to
                > > buy the gas car:
                > >
                > > 061638 "New Gas-Electric Car to Carry Baggage Over FJG Steam Line �
                > > Authorization for the purchase of a gasoline-electric car for the
                > > transportation of mail, express and baggage over the steam line as a
                > > substitute for similar service now carried over the electric division
                > > between Fonda and Gloversville was granted to the F., J. & G. Railroad
                >in
                > > Federal Court at Syracuse yesterday.
                > >
                > > "J. Ledlie Hees, trustee of the railroad, said that the new car will be
                > > placed in service shortly after July 1 and will operate over the tracks
                >of
                > > the steam division. Application for authority to make the purchase was
                > > filed with Federal Judge Frederick Bryant by Wes H. Maider, attorney for
                >the
                > > railroad.
                > >
                > > "The car is 73 feet long and weighs approximately fifty tons, being
                >driven
                > > by two 150 horsepower gasoline engines to generate its own electric
                >power.
                > > It may be operated from either end and provides 55 feet of space for
                > > carrying mail and baggage.
                > >
                > > "It also is capable of drawing regulation railway equipment behind it
                >in
                > > case of necessity. It is manufactured by the American Car and Foundry
                > > Company."
                > >
                > > The next couple quotes indicate by 1948 the car was considered an
                >express
                > > car, not mail.
                > >
                > > 092848 #9 is out on the express run while #340 is in for overhaul.
                >Probably
                > > #9 will be out for a week or so. 21 and 20 are both out. Last week #20
                >was
                > > in the shop. #9 didn�t make the night express run; #21 and the baggage
                >car
                > > made the trip.
                > >
                > > 101848 #340 Express car was out today for the first in about three weeks
                >she
                > > is gainly decked out in the company�s standard colors of orange, yellow,
                >and
                > > a black trim. Her motor sounds as if the overhaul did some good.
                > >
                > > 102548 #21 took a railway express car as well as combine #22 down on
                >night
                > > run in place of #340. What is wrong with the 340 is not yet known.
                > >
                > > Reading through the news accounts I doubt the mail was carried on the
                >gas
                > > car; it s service was not dependable enough for the US Mail.
                > >
                > > Dates of interest:
                > >
                > > 1958 - trucks substituted for gas car for Ry. Express (assume that all
                >mail
                > > was by truck at this date?);
                > >
                > > 7/18/1960 Ry. Express stops using the railroad, substituting their own
                > > trucks;
                > >
                > > between 4/1/1964 and 4/24/1968 REA used the railroad truck to handle
                >their
                > > business.
                > >
                > > The FJ&G lost the mail contract September 11, 1964.
                > >
                > > Effective October 1, 1964, LCL was no longer handled through the
                >company's
                > > freight house. This latter coincided with the NYC giving up LCL
                >service
                > > over Fonda.
                > >
                > > PKL
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                >Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                >http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                >Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
                >http://ny.existingstations.com/
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Paul Charland
                Hi Paul, I was wondering how two engines fit into the description, that s almost an RDC-3 they were describing. Thanks for confirming the orange on the highway
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 9, 2006
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                  Hi Paul,

                  I was wondering how two engines fit into the description, that's almost
                  an RDC-3 they were describing.

                  Thanks for confirming the orange on the highway trucks. I'd guessed
                  this years ago but it could have easily been gray.

                  Paul :-)

                  paul larner wrote:
                  > Paul, I suspect at the time permission was received to acquire a car that
                  > they may have had a new car in mind; note also the reference to two engines,
                  > etc. Definitely not the car they eventually purchased. It is interesting
                  > to note that when the FJ&G came out of receivership the diesels and busses
                  > were acquired for cash.
                  >
                  > You are correct that the trucks were painted in the orange, cream and black
                  > FJ&G color scheme.
                  >
                  > PKL
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