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Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL Cars

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  • Paul Charland
    Hi Gino and Aaron, At the height of Shortline Fever the NSL owned over 2000 50 boxcars under the Incentive per Diem program. There were so many railroads
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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      Hi Gino and Aaron,

      At the height of "Shortline Fever" the NSL owned over 2000 50' boxcars
      under the "Incentive per Diem" program. There were so many railroads
      involved in this program they could not get a builder to build cars for
      them at a reasonable time so they started building them themselves (cars
      came as "kits" and were assembled in Ogdensburg but NSL). The couldn't
      buy enough trucks so the had a builder in Germany build trucks to North
      American standards and ship them to the port of Ogdensburg.

      The Incentive per Diem program was to increase the supply of decent
      boxcars and any money a railroad made had to go back into increasing
      their fleet of boxcars. This was a really big success and NSL was one
      of the more successful participants until the program came to an abrupt
      halt one day as there was a glut of boxcars out there (April 1st 1981 if
      I recall). Almost over night these per diem cars were returned to their
      owners. When you have 20 miles (yes, miles) of 50' boxcars returned to
      you in about a two week period and you only have about 12 miles of
      mainline you start getting into trouble. The NSL was forced to pay many
      railroads in the northeast to store large numbers of cars. Just off the
      top of my head I remember see NSL cars stored on Conrail at Massena and
      Watertown NY, Waterbury VT on the CV and from reading this list, the
      FJ&G also stored NSL cars, I'm sure there were many others. This lead to
      bargain basement prices for fairly new boxcars in pretty good condition
      and by the summer of '81 you could see ex-NSL boxcars running around
      with new reporting marks. Some of the lines that took advantage of
      picking up cheap NSL cars were CN, CP, ONT, CV, RBOX, CNW, CR, and I
      think D&H, pretty sure there were others at the time, I still see these
      cars go by with strange reporting marks that didn't exist back in the '80s.

      Paul :-)

      Aaron Keller wrote:
      > Gino,
      >
      > The Escanaba and Lake Superior has a large fleet of ex- St. Lawrence cars
      > in service over here. There are dozens of them around Green Bay all the
      > time.
      >
      > -Aaron
    • Dicarlo, Gino
      I m know my message wasn t very clear. I guess I was wondering if this Car I saw the other day was of the same batch as earlier NSL cars. So, I take it Paul,
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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        I'm know my message wasn't very clear. I guess I was wondering if this
        Car I saw the other day was of the same batch as earlier NSL cars. So,
        I take it Paul, that you're saying this car I saw could be from the old
        Batch?

        If this is so, did a modification occur with these cars to bring them
        Up to current standards?

        Gino

        -----Original Message-----
        From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Paul Charland
        Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:27 AM
        To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL Cars

        Hi Gino and Aaron,

        At the height of "Shortline Fever" the NSL owned over 2000 50' boxcars
        under the "Incentive per Diem" program. There were so many railroads
        involved in this program they could not get a builder to build cars for
        them at a reasonable time so they started building them themselves (cars
        came as "kits" and were assembled in Ogdensburg but NSL). The couldn't
        buy enough trucks so the had a builder in Germany build trucks to North
        American standards and ship them to the port of Ogdensburg.

        The Incentive per Diem program was to increase the supply of decent
        boxcars and any money a railroad made had to go back into increasing
        their fleet of boxcars. This was a really big success and NSL was one
        of the more successful participants until the program came to an abrupt
        halt one day as there was a glut of boxcars out there (April 1st 1981 if
        I recall). Almost over night these per diem cars were returned to their
        owners. When you have 20 miles (yes, miles) of 50' boxcars returned to
        you in about a two week period and you only have about 12 miles of
        mainline you start getting into trouble. The NSL was forced to pay many
        railroads in the northeast to store large numbers of cars. Just off the
        top of my head I remember see NSL cars stored on Conrail at Massena and
        Watertown NY, Waterbury VT on the CV and from reading this list, the
        FJ&G also stored NSL cars, I'm sure there were many others. This lead to
        bargain basement prices for fairly new boxcars in pretty good condition
        and by the summer of '81 you could see ex-NSL boxcars running around
        with new reporting marks. Some of the lines that took advantage of
        picking up cheap NSL cars were CN, CP, ONT, CV, RBOX, CNW, CR, and I
        think D&H, pretty sure there were others at the time, I still see these
        cars go by with strange reporting marks that didn't exist back in the
        '80s.

        Paul :-)

        Aaron Keller wrote:
        > Gino,
        >
        > The Escanaba and Lake Superior has a large fleet of ex- St. Lawrence
        > cars in service over here. There are dozens of them around Green Bay
        > all the time.
        >
        > -Aaron


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      • Paul Charland
        Hi Gino, No doubt it was from the original batch of NSL per diem cars from the late 70s and early 80s, I m pretty sure NSL hasn t built or bought any more
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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          Hi Gino,

          No doubt it was from the original batch of NSL per diem cars from the
          late '70s and early '80s, I'm pretty sure NSL hasn't built or bought any
          more rolling stock from then on.

          I didn't see the car so I can't tell you if it's been modified or not.
          Many railroads who bought the cars did make one visible modification.
          Just about all NSL cars had a wheel connected to the door and t track
          the went ten or eleven feet to the right of the door, this was to make
          it easier to open the door. Worked well but became a costly maintenance
          problem as the cars got older, so many lines removed the track and wheel
          assembly. The most distinguishing feature that remains on most of these
          cars is the square plaque on the door that used to carry the National
          Railway Utilization Corporation logo.

          If by "current standards" you are referring to increased height, might
          be someone out there doing this but I haven't seen any ex-NSL cars
          converted is such a way... but that doesn't mean they don't exist, just
          that I haven't seen any myself. At the time of construction back in the
          late '70s these cars exceeded the "current standard" of the day.

          Paul :-)

          Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
          > I'm know my message wasn't very clear. I guess I was wondering if this
          > Car I saw the other day was of the same batch as earlier NSL cars. So,
          > I take it Paul, that you're saying this car I saw could be from the old
          > Batch?
          >
          > If this is so, did a modification occur with these cars to bring them
          > Up to current standards?
          >
          > Gino
        • Aaron Keller
          Gino, The FJ&G/LASB boxcars had friction bearing trucks... the NSL cars had roller bearing trucks... if that s what you re getting at. Friction bearing trucks
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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            Gino,

            The FJ&G/LASB boxcars had friction bearing trucks... the NSL cars had
            roller bearing trucks... if that's what you're getting at.

            Friction bearing trucks aren't used today.

            -Aaron
          • joseph Klapkowski
            The M&NJ had the same problem. Cars were being returned and they literally had to get out a chainsaw and clear the south end of the M&NJ ROW so they had a
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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              The M&NJ had the same problem. Cars were being returned and they literally
              had to get out a chainsaw and clear the south end of the M&NJ ROW so they
              had a place to store them. In the M&NJ's case they only used the first five
              miles of the line so this meant that the south end of the railroad, which
              had not seen a wheel in the rails in many many years had to be cleared. They
              discovered that in a couple of places someone had actually removed some of
              the rails.

              >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL Cars
              >Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:26:56 -0400
              >
              >Hi Gino and Aaron,
              >
              >At the height of "Shortline Fever" the NSL owned over 2000 50' boxcars
              >under the "Incentive per Diem" program. There were so many railroads
              >involved in this program they could not get a builder to build cars for
              >them at a reasonable time so they started building them themselves (cars
              >came as "kits" and were assembled in Ogdensburg but NSL). The couldn't
              >buy enough trucks so the had a builder in Germany build trucks to North
              >American standards and ship them to the port of Ogdensburg.
              >
              >The Incentive per Diem program was to increase the supply of decent
              >boxcars and any money a railroad made had to go back into increasing
              >their fleet of boxcars. This was a really big success and NSL was one
              >of the more successful participants until the program came to an abrupt
              >halt one day as there was a glut of boxcars out there (April 1st 1981 if
              >I recall). Almost over night these per diem cars were returned to their
              >owners. When you have 20 miles (yes, miles) of 50' boxcars returned to
              >you in about a two week period and you only have about 12 miles of
              >mainline you start getting into trouble. The NSL was forced to pay many
              >railroads in the northeast to store large numbers of cars. Just off the
              >top of my head I remember see NSL cars stored on Conrail at Massena and
              >Watertown NY, Waterbury VT on the CV and from reading this list, the
              >FJ&G also stored NSL cars, I'm sure there were many others. This lead to
              >bargain basement prices for fairly new boxcars in pretty good condition
              >and by the summer of '81 you could see ex-NSL boxcars running around
              >with new reporting marks. Some of the lines that took advantage of
              >picking up cheap NSL cars were CN, CP, ONT, CV, RBOX, CNW, CR, and I
              >think D&H, pretty sure there were others at the time, I still see these
              >cars go by with strange reporting marks that didn't exist back in the '80s.
              >
              >Paul :-)
              >
              >Aaron Keller wrote:
              > > Gino,
              > >
              > > The Escanaba and Lake Superior has a large fleet of ex- St. Lawrence
              >cars
              > > in service over here. There are dozens of them around Green Bay all the
              > > time.
              > >
              > > -Aaron
            • Paul Charland
              I heard at the time this started being a problem for the NSL they had a 100 ton hopper of coal show up at the Conrail interchange in Norwood for the
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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                I heard at the time this started being a problem for the NSL they had a
                100 ton hopper of coal show up at the Conrail interchange in Norwood for
                the Psychiatric Hospital in Ogdensburg. Took nearly a week to send cars
                away to be stored on other railroads as well as plugging every siding
                they could in order to open the mainline up and deliver the car... just
                in time for the next one to show up!

                Paul :-)

                joseph Klapkowski wrote:

                > The M&NJ had the same problem. Cars were being returned and they literally
                > had to get out a chainsaw and clear the south end of the M&NJ ROW so they
                > had a place to store them. In the M&NJ's case they only used the first five
                > miles of the line so this meant that the south end of the railroad, which
                > had not seen a wheel in the rails in many many years had to be cleared. They
                > discovered that in a couple of places someone had actually removed some of
                > the rails.
              • oleroadslug
                ... cars in service over here. There are dozens of them around Green Bay all the time. ... Gino. They come through Appleton to get to Green Bay. However, I
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 22, 2006
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                  --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Gino,
                  >
                  > The Escanaba and Lake Superior has a large fleet of ex- St. Lawrence
                  cars in service over here. There are dozens of them around Green Bay
                  all the time.
                  >
                  > -Aaron
                  >
                  >
                  >Aaron I assume, as well as I can get shots of these cars for you
                  Gino. They come through Appleton to get to Green Bay. However, I don't
                  think they are what your after. Paper service cars now if I'm not
                  mistaken.

                  Bob Schoneman

                  P.S. Aaron- Got your e mail. ;-)
                • Gino's Railpage
                  Aaron, This is exactly what I m talking about. That s what I was looking for. It was the fact that the FJG/PC cars had friction-bearing trucks making them
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 24, 2006
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                    Aaron,
                     
                    This is exactly what I'm talking about.  That's what I was looking for.  It was the fact that the FJG/PC cars had friction-bearing trucks making them incompatible today!  I thought that any car that was over 30 years old couldn't be switched over a class 1 railroad...
                     
                    Gino

                     
                    On 7/22/06, Aaron Keller <akeller1979@...> wrote:

                    Gino,

                    The FJ&G/LASB boxcars had friction bearing trucks... the NSL cars had
                    roller bearing trucks... if that's what you're getting at.

                    Friction bearing trucks aren't used today.

                    -Aaron




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