Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG

Expand Messages
  • Gerald Snyder
    The other major Coleco (Conneticut Leather Company)operation in the area was here in Amsterdam, which is where the Cabbage Patch dolls and Adam computers were
    Message 1 of 21 , May 27, 2006
      The other major Coleco (Conneticut Leather
      Company)operation in the area was here in Amsterdam,
      which is where the Cabbage Patch dolls and Adam
      computers were being distributed from. It was located
      in the old Sanford Mills complex and had rail service,
      along with the rest of the sweatshops in there, from
      the NYC Kellogg branch (old AC&N). As far as the Adam
      computer was concerned, it wasn't that bad a product
      for its day, but was to a large extent a victim of
      it's own design. It used a tape drive and cassette
      tapes as it's memory storage media, and a television
      for it's monitor. This was early in the PC era so
      most people just used their regular television set
      without having one dedicated just to the computer.
      People naturally tended to store their tapes on top of
      or next to the TV, which did wonders for the integrity
      of the data stored on them. Some of the people that
      worked at Coleco told me that about 75% of the Adams
      returned as defective were in perfect operating
      condition - it was the corruped software and lost data
      on the zapped tapes that was really the problem.
      Unfortunately, by that point it had gotten a
      reputation as a piece of junk and they couldn't give
      them away.
      Jerry

      --- Dave Brennan <oldcrab62@...> wrote:

      > They had the Cabbage Patch doll and a failed (?)
      > attempt at a computer.
      >
      > joseph Klapkowski <riverlinejoe@...> wrote:
      > The answer is that the FJ&G lost enough traffic that
      > it was economically not
      > worthwhile to operate the line anymore. The
      > newsprint traffic went to trucks
      > and the hides went to containers. The last customer
      > outlived regular service
      > on the FJ&G. HOWEVER the DO still got this traffic.
      >
      > Coleco was at the far end (Broadalbin) of the line
      > and they received
      > pellitized plastic. These cars are fairly heavy and
      > subject to harmonic
      > rock, which means that between something like 9 and
      > 13 mph every other car
      > would rock the opposite way and cause a derailment.
      > Since the FJ&G was only
      > a 10 mph road, fixing the track to allow higher
      > speeds was impractical. When
      > all the intermediate traffic dried up, DO did not
      > want to operate 20 miles
      > of railroad to get to the customer. However all was
      > not lost. Pellitized
      > plastic travels well in trucks too. So while DO
      > abondoned the FJ&G, they
      > continued to serve Coleco by having the covered
      > hoppers delivered to Utica
      > Yard. Here they set up a transfer facility where the
      > plastic was loaded into
      > trailers by use of compressed air. They could then
      > deliver the plastic to
      > Coleco and still get the revenue without maintaining
      > the railroad.
      >
      > This turned out to be a particularly good move for
      > two reasons. First the
      > economics made sense. Second, and DO could not have
      > known this at the time,
      > Coleco filed for Chapter 11 a couple years later.
      > Seems they had too much
      > inventory.
      >
      > Coleco, to add some color had three products. Toys
      > primarily Buddy L (aka
      > like Tonka Trucks), CCM which produced skates,
      > jerseys, sticks etc for
      > hockey including the NHL, and the original
      > manufacturing operation, making
      > those little pools that are 18 inches deep for
      > little kids. This was a
      > fascinating and somewhat sad operation at the same
      > time. It was located in
      > Broadalbin and the way it worked was Coleco took
      > delivery of these big
      > sheets of plastic. I am guessing what 48 inches
      > across. The plastic sheets
      > were placed on a wooden frame that rotated. The
      > first sheet wehn on and I
      > think there were four quadrants. The frame right
      > next to the first one was
      > where the fininshed product was. This is hard to
      > explain so please forgive
      > me. What happened was the plastic sheet went under
      > what I can best describe
      > as a giant hairdryer. The hot air melted the plastic
      > enough for the middle
      > to drop down and form the pool. The guy standing
      > there would take off the
      > finished pool and trim it with a knife. Then he
      > would put the sheet of
      > plastic on the "turntable" for lack of a better
      > phrase and it would go
      > around until it went under the hot air and poof,
      > pool.
      >
      > I said it was sad too because when I toured the
      > facility, there was a young
      > guy, maybe 25 doing this operation. He did not have
      > all his teeth and those
      > that he did have were not in the best of shape. This
      > was a mindless task
      > too. So it made me sad.
      >
      > thats all from here I have rambled again.
      >
      >
      > >From: "Dan Sapochetti" <dansapo@...>
      > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
      > >Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 13:54:11 -0000
      > >
      > >I'm a newbie to your list.So go easy on me.Why did
      > the FLG shut down?
      > >Did a big customer shut down or was it DO just
      > didn't want to own it
      > >anymore?Inquiring minds want to know.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Visit The FJ&G Store At
      > http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
      > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
      > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
      > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad
      > Stations in New York State at
      > http://ny.existingstations.com/
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      > Business finance course Business to
      > business finance Small business finance
      > Business finance consultant Business finance
      > magazine Business finance schools
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > Visit your group "FJGRailroad" on the web.
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
      > to:
      > FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
      > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low
      > PC-to-Phone call rates.


      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      http://mail.yahoo.com
    • choochoo1802@webtv.net
      If I may add to this. Also that,Coleco was the number #1 supplier in swimming pools,and pinball games for Montgomery Wards.When the catalog was no longer,and
      Message 2 of 21 , May 28, 2006
        If I may add to this. Also that,Coleco was the number #1 supplier in
        swimming pools,and pinball games for Montgomery Wards.When the catalog
        was no longer,and closing of some stores,the demand from Coleco was not
        there. Then when the video games came out,they were mostly trucked. Mark
      • Aaron Keller
        Paul, ... While this is true, I d be careful as an author to henceforth compare the mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as compared
        Message 3 of 21 , May 28, 2006
          Paul,

          > Every effort after 1973
          > depended on the taxpayer to ensure it's success; further all those who
          > offered alternatives to keep the road open, DO and after, understood that
          > they would get any profit for themselves from the taxpayer, not railroad
          > operations.

          While this is true, I'd be careful as an author to henceforth compare the
          mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as compared
          to a mile of railroad. Every trucking company operating in America relies
          on "subsidies" to a much higher degree than the railroads. J. B. Hunt,
          Roadway, United Van Lines, etc., all operate over highways paid for 100% by
          the taxpayer and maintained by the taxpayer's employees. They'd be out of
          business if they had to maintain the highways. The difference is that the
          highway system is neatly disguised as a public interest project for the
          general public when in fact it is a subsidy. Other communities and in some
          cases entire nations have forced traffic onto their rail systems in an
          effort to keep people off the highways. It just depends on what the
          individual community chooses as its transportation system.

          PS -- who was the Amtrak engineer who ran out of fuel the other day near
          Ft. Edward?

          -Aaron
        • Gino's Railpage
          This is what Walt Rich told me about the demise of the FJ&G. It s 2 biggest shippers were Coleco at Broadalbin Junction and Kargs in Johnstown. Coleco
          Message 4 of 21 , May 28, 2006
            This is what Walt Rich told me about the demise of the FJ&G.  It's 2 biggest shippers were Coleco at Broadalbin Junction and Kargs in Johnstown.  Coleco started making Colecovision Game Systems and ADAM computers.  They stopped making pools and tried their hands at the electronic market. Kargs switched from Trains to trucks and that was a big killer.  Also, the cities of Johnstown and Gloversville stopped getting salt by rail.  Pretty much, OMnicology Labs (Fertilizer) of Johnstown was the only REAL shipper. 
             
            According to Walt, they made many improvements to the track, so that wasn't a factor.  Mark Wilber will tell you different!
             
            Gino
             
            p.s.  Coleco was 10 years too early.  Their gaming system was top of the line for the
            time, but their computer wasn't ready for public yet!!! 
             
             
            On 5/28/06, Aaron Keller <akeller1979@...> wrote:
            Paul,


            > Every effort after 1973
            > depended on the taxpayer to ensure it's success; further all those who
            > offered alternatives to keep the road open, DO and after, understood that
            > they would get any profit for themselves from the taxpayer, not railroad
            > operations.

            While this is true, I'd be careful as an author to henceforth compare the
            mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as compared
            to a mile of railroad.  Every trucking company operating in America relies
            on "subsidies" to a much higher degree than the railroads.  J. B. Hunt,
            Roadway, United Van Lines, etc., all operate over highways paid for 100% by
            the taxpayer and maintained by the taxpayer's employees.  They'd be out of
            business if they had to maintain the highways.  The difference is that the
            highway system is neatly disguised as a public interest project for the
            general public when in fact it is a subsidy.  Other communities and in some
            cases entire nations have forced traffic onto their rail systems in an
            effort to keep people off the highways.  It just depends on what the
            individual community chooses as its transportation system.

            PS -- who was the Amtrak engineer who ran out of fuel the other day near
            Ft. Edward?
             

            -Aaron




            Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
            Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
            http://www.lostlandmarks.org
            Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
            http://ny.existingstations.com/




            SPONSORED LINKS
            Business finance course Business to business finance Small business finance
            Business finance consultant Business finance magazine Business finance schools


            YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS






            --
            www.ginosrailpage.com
            www.fjgrr.org
          • paul larner
            No argument here your point is understood but was not the question. The question was why did the FJ&G go out of business. Consider J.B. Hunt Schneider, UPS,
            Message 5 of 21 , May 29, 2006
              No argument here your point is understood but was not the question. The
              question was why did the FJ&G go out of business. Consider J.B. Hunt
              Schneider, UPS, many smaller truck operators and many, many container lines
              partner with the railroads today. What may have been bad for the FJ&G and
              other lines was not necessarily bad for the country. A railroad is nothing
              more than a tool or means to an end.

              The FJ&G was a tool of its owners no different than a machine or a building
              - when the tool becomes obsolete you either scrap it or sell in the used
              market. That is what happened to the FJ&G in 1973; the company no longer
              served a function for its owners and frankly no one else but Coleco "needed"
              it. The answer was simple and was followed. Coleco found a way to keep the
              railroad operating as long as it served their needs. The MCA changed the
              playing field; trucks became a more economical tool for transportation. DO
              keeping a piece of the action over their site in Utica was good for them but
              not designed to help do in the FJ&G. Those are business decisions.

              There should be no question I really have a passion for the FJ&G, however by
              no means am I one of those who want to see it operating just because it's a
              neat railroad and the community needs it. Those positions are bunk. The
              men who founded the FJ&G and those who later operated it understood what the
              business was about; besides people transportation that railroad supported
              industrial development and later in the trolley era settlement of "suburbs,
              selling electricity and filling the labor pool for companies like GE and
              Alco in Schenectady. I was told Judson Zimmer commented something to the
              effect that it was only scrap metal when asked about keeping No. 9 (or
              another of them) for nostalgia purposes.

              What happened when the local club undertook to restore coach 17? A lot of
              action, then less, then nothing; when it began to cost more money, that was
              all she wrote and 17 went into the south round house until it was taken
              apart, board by board in 1961.

              With regard to the government subsidizing transportation: Think about it in
              the context of what may be referred to as "essential public needs." Pretty
              tough to put the FJ&G in there after 1980. Recall that the city, county and
              state did support continued operation while the rail line was considered
              essential. It was only after MCA that the need and the traffic went
              literally to nothing. That's a fact ( if I had the clippings here I would
              give you the numbers and the years - went from hundreds of cars to, I think,
              two the following year), there was no longer a need for the railroad, plain
              and simple. It was then that the local governments and the state decided
              not to continue their investment. DO was not about to run the railroad for
              railfans. Note that DO kept its ownership of the real estate, locomotives
              and charter, by paying the mortgage debt for that portion. I believe this
              was done by selling those portions used by the county and city for more than
              the outstanding mortgage. Good move in my book. I do not know if the
              construction monies were ever repaid; what do you think?

              Look at what happened to the railroads on PEI and New Foundland. What
              "really" ended the railroads at those locations? When you put your money
              away for the future, I surely hope you invest with your head and not your
              heart. Charity comes from the heart.

              On another note - today I understand why many railroaders think
              photographers are unworthy. We encountered two different and separate
              photographers, yesterday and today, who took their picture, gathered their
              cameras, got into their cars without ever looking up at the locomotive, much
              less look the train over. Those guys aren't railfans. They're picture
              takers who take pictures of trains. I mean these clowns are on the right of
              way and never so much as look up or wave. One guy snapped then actually
              turned away as he got into his car. It was all about the picture, nothing
              about the train or railroad. They're the kind of guys who'll chase trips
              and carp about the trip operators and schedule or route, but don't buy a
              ticket. Too bad they get lumped into the group called railfans. Just a
              glance and a wave would have saved my impression.

              Paul

              >From: "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@...>
              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
              >Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 11:43:06 -0500
              >
              >Paul,
              >
              > > Every effort after 1973
              > > depended on the taxpayer to ensure it's success; further all those who
              > > offered alternatives to keep the road open, DO and after, understood
              >that
              > > they would get any profit for themselves from the taxpayer, not railroad
              > > operations.
              >
              >While this is true, I'd be careful as an author to henceforth compare the
              >mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as compared
              >to a mile of railroad. Every trucking company operating in America relies
              >on "subsidies" to a much higher degree than the railroads. J. B. Hunt,
              >Roadway, United Van Lines, etc., all operate over highways paid for 100% by
              >the taxpayer and maintained by the taxpayer's employees. They'd be out of
              >business if they had to maintain the highways. The difference is that the
              >highway system is neatly disguised as a public interest project for the
              >general public when in fact it is a subsidy. Other communities and in some
              >cases entire nations have forced traffic onto their rail systems in an
              >effort to keep people off the highways. It just depends on what the
              >individual community chooses as its transportation system.
              >
              >PS -- who was the Amtrak engineer who ran out of fuel the other day near
              >Ft. Edward?
              >
              >-Aaron
              >
            • choochoo1802@webtv.net
              My understanding with Karg Bros.,they use to get the hides from the midwest and was shipped in from the BN and to Conrail,then to us. Then they changed their
              Message 6 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                My understanding with Karg Bros.,they use to get the hides from the
                midwest and was shipped in from the BN and to Conrail,then to us. Then
                they changed their buying market. Then they started buying the hides
                from South America ( I think) and was shipped by boat into New York
                Harbor,then trucked from NY to Gloversville. Gino,you are right about
                the Colecovision. All that was trucked out also. Mark
              • Gino DiCarlo
                Mark, How about Walt s comment to me that the line was upgraded? He was telling me about extensive track-work and boosting the speed limits. Gino ...
                Message 7 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                  Mark,

                  How about Walt's comment to me that the line was
                  upgraded? He was telling me about extensive
                  track-work and boosting the speed limits.

                  Gino

                  --- choochoo1802@... wrote:

                  > My understanding with Karg Bros.,they use to get the
                  > hides from the
                  > midwest and was shipped in from the BN and to
                  > Conrail,then to us. Then
                  > they changed their buying market. Then they started
                  > buying the hides
                  > from South America ( I think) and was shipped by
                  > boat into New York
                  > Harbor,then trucked from NY to Gloversville.
                  > Gino,you are right about
                  > the Colecovision. All that was trucked out also.
                  > Mark
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                  Gino-The speed was never upgraded. Always was 10mph. There was some stone spredding on the line,but not the whole thing,just selected areas with tamping. I
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                    Gino-The speed was never upgraded. Always was 10mph. There was some
                    stone spredding on the line,but not the whole thing,just selected areas
                    with tamping. I remember one summer we ran train only at night because
                    the track gang had the machines out there relacing the ties. I believe
                    it was the summer of 1979 the work was being done. Within 2 to 3 years
                    after that the track was failing again,especially the track bed itself.
                    I dont blame the company for it,it was just a hard line to maintain.
                    Just needed alot of money to take care of it. Yes there was State money
                    involved,but they had to watch their spending. With the shippers
                    slowing down,I dont think Walt wanted to put much more money into it.I
                    know he tried to hang onto it as long he could of. Mark
                  • joseph Klapkowski
                    The hides were coming from Texas and thereabouts for years. Then they started coming from south america by container. It was not practical to put the
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                      The hides were coming from Texas and thereabouts for years. Then they
                      started coming from south america by container. It was not practical to put
                      the containers on railcars from any east coast port when you could have it
                      by truck in one tenth the time for much less money. Dollars tied up in
                      inventory is a bad thing.


                      >From: "Gino's Railpage" <fjgrailroad@...>
                      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
                      >Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 16:33:22 -0400
                      >
                      >This is what Walt Rich told me about the demise of the FJ&G. It's 2
                      >biggest
                      >shippers were Coleco at Broadalbin Junction and Kargs in Johnstown. Coleco
                      >started making Colecovision Game Systems and ADAM computers. They stopped
                      >making pools and tried their hands at the electronic market. Kargs switched
                      >from Trains to trucks and that was a big killer. Also, the cities of
                      >Johnstown and Gloversville stopped getting salt by rail. Pretty much,
                      >OMnicology Labs (Fertilizer) of Johnstown was the only REAL shipper.
                      >
                      >According to Walt, they made many improvements to the track, so that wasn't
                      >a factor. Mark Wilber will tell you different!
                      >
                      >Gino
                      >
                      >p.s. Coleco was 10 years too early. Their gaming system was top of the
                      >line for the
                      >time, but their computer wasn't ready for public yet!!!
                      >
                      >
                      >On 5/28/06, Aaron Keller <akeller1979@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Paul,
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> > Every effort after 1973
                      >> > depended on the taxpayer to ensure it's success; further all those who
                      >> > offered alternatives to keep the road open, DO and after, understood
                      >>that
                      >> > they would get any profit for themselves from the taxpayer, not
                      >>railroad
                      >> > operations.
                      >>
                      >>While this is true, I'd be careful as an author to henceforth compare the
                      >>mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as
                      >>compared
                      >>to a mile of railroad. Every trucking company operating in America relies
                      >>
                      >>on "subsidies" to a much higher degree than the railroads. J. B. Hunt,
                      >>Roadway, United Van Lines, etc., all operate over highways paid for 100%
                      >>by
                      >>the taxpayer and maintained by the taxpayer's employees. They'd be out of
                      >>
                      >>business if they had to maintain the highways. The difference is that the
                      >>
                      >>highway system is neatly disguised as a public interest project for the
                      >>general public when in fact it is a subsidy. Other communities and in
                      >>some
                      >>cases entire nations have forced traffic onto their rail systems in an
                      >>effort to keep people off the highways. It just depends on what the
                      >>individual community chooses as its transportation system.
                      >>
                      >>PS -- who was the Amtrak engineer who ran out of fuel the other day near
                      >>Ft. Edward?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>-Aaron
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                      >>Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                      >>http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                      >>Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State
                      >>at
                      >>http://ny.existingstations.com/
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>SPONSORED LINKS
                      >> Business finance
                      >>course<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+course&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=I8jDsORmsaYn0BeqghcJ2w>
                      >>Business
                      >>to business
                      >>finance<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+to+business+finance&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=fCzze7cxm1K7TVKkzAaOrA>
                      >>Small
                      >>business
                      >>finance<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Small+business+finance&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=v9sWAno7Kz4WuL8Tadcdhw>
                      >> Business
                      >>finance
                      >>consultant<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+consultant&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=d1xwT3WL0E6XBf6cAV5BXA>
                      >>Business
                      >>finance
                      >>magazine<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+magazine&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=qphRINaNuVm_6bwoQxgUmg>
                      >>Business
                      >>finance
                      >>schools<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+to+business+finance&w3=Small+business+finance&w4=Business+finance+consultant&w5=Business+finance+magazine&w6=Business+finance+schools&c=6&s=185&.sig=1RfnhYZpV99RKWRZzSH4gA>
                      >> ------------------------------
                      >>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> - Visit your group
                      >>"FJGRailroad<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad>"
                      >> on the web.
                      >>
                      >> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >>
                      >>FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                      >>
                      >> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >--
                      >www.ginosrailpage.com
                      >www.fjgrr.org
                    • joseph Klapkowski
                      Based upon newspaper accounts i have the State of New York did spend quite a bit of money on the FJ&G. However a lot of that money was for grade crossing
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                        Based upon newspaper accounts i have the State of New York did spend quite a
                        bit of money on the FJ&G. However a lot of that money was for grade crossing
                        improvements. Nice new heavy rail at the crossing but crappy old light rail
                        between the crossings.


                        >From: Gino DiCarlo <thedicarlos@...>
                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
                        >Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
                        >
                        >Mark,
                        >
                        >How about Walt's comment to me that the line was
                        >upgraded? He was telling me about extensive
                        >track-work and boosting the speed limits.
                        >
                        >Gino
                        >
                        >--- choochoo1802@... wrote:
                        >
                        > > My understanding with Karg Bros.,they use to get the
                        > > hides from the
                        > > midwest and was shipped in from the BN and to
                        > > Conrail,then to us. Then
                        > > they changed their buying market. Then they started
                        > > buying the hides
                        > > from South America ( I think) and was shipped by
                        > > boat into New York
                        > > Harbor,then trucked from NY to Gloversville.
                        > > Gino,you are right about
                        > > the Colecovision. All that was trucked out also.
                        > > Mark
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >__________________________________________________
                        >Do You Yahoo!?
                        >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                        >http://mail.yahoo.com
                      • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                        Joe- Maybe the cow hides came from Texas,I believe the deer and elk hides came in from North Central states. I remember the old CBQ s cars that brought them
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                          Joe- Maybe the cow hides came from Texas,I believe the deer and elk
                          hides came in from North Central states. I remember the old CBQ's cars
                          that brought them in. I also use to make the waybills up for the reverse
                          routing back to the BN and the GN.Mark
                        • joseph Klapkowski
                          I feel a need to add my two cents here. If you are a highly sucessful operation like say UP or NS (with Graham Claytor at the helm) and you want to spend a few
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                            I feel a need to add my two cents here. If you are a highly sucessful
                            operation like say UP or NS (with Graham Claytor at the helm) and you want
                            to spend a few bucks to have a couple of steam engines for "publicity" sake,
                            the shareholders are not going to miss $2 million out of $350 million in
                            profits. However if you are having trouble meeting the payroll, then
                            scrapping some equipment or tearing up an un-needed side track will probably
                            yield you a few bucks. Hard to argue the working capital end when you are
                            hard pressed for money.......................


                            >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
                            >Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:57:55 -0400
                            >
                            >No argument here your point is understood but was not the question. The
                            >question was why did the FJ&G go out of business. Consider J.B. Hunt
                            >Schneider, UPS, many smaller truck operators and many, many container lines
                            >partner with the railroads today. What may have been bad for the FJ&G and
                            >other lines was not necessarily bad for the country. A railroad is nothing
                            >more than a tool or means to an end.
                            >
                            >The FJ&G was a tool of its owners no different than a machine or a building
                            >- when the tool becomes obsolete you either scrap it or sell in the used
                            >market. That is what happened to the FJ&G in 1973; the company no longer
                            >served a function for its owners and frankly no one else but Coleco
                            >"needed"
                            >it. The answer was simple and was followed. Coleco found a way to keep
                            >the
                            >railroad operating as long as it served their needs. The MCA changed the
                            >playing field; trucks became a more economical tool for transportation. DO
                            >keeping a piece of the action over their site in Utica was good for them
                            >but
                            >not designed to help do in the FJ&G. Those are business decisions.
                            >
                            >There should be no question I really have a passion for the FJ&G, however
                            >by
                            >no means am I one of those who want to see it operating just because it's a
                            >neat railroad and the community needs it. Those positions are bunk. The
                            >men who founded the FJ&G and those who later operated it understood what
                            >the
                            >business was about; besides people transportation that railroad supported
                            >industrial development and later in the trolley era settlement of "suburbs,
                            >selling electricity and filling the labor pool for companies like GE and
                            >Alco in Schenectady. I was told Judson Zimmer commented something to the
                            >effect that it was only scrap metal when asked about keeping No. 9 (or
                            >another of them) for nostalgia purposes.
                            >
                            >What happened when the local club undertook to restore coach 17? A lot of
                            >action, then less, then nothing; when it began to cost more money, that was
                            >all she wrote and 17 went into the south round house until it was taken
                            >apart, board by board in 1961.
                            >
                            >With regard to the government subsidizing transportation: Think about it
                            >in
                            >the context of what may be referred to as "essential public needs." Pretty
                            >tough to put the FJ&G in there after 1980. Recall that the city, county
                            >and
                            >state did support continued operation while the rail line was considered
                            >essential. It was only after MCA that the need and the traffic went
                            >literally to nothing. That's a fact ( if I had the clippings here I would
                            >give you the numbers and the years - went from hundreds of cars to, I
                            >think,
                            >two the following year), there was no longer a need for the railroad, plain
                            >and simple. It was then that the local governments and the state decided
                            >not to continue their investment. DO was not about to run the railroad for
                            >railfans. Note that DO kept its ownership of the real estate, locomotives
                            >and charter, by paying the mortgage debt for that portion. I believe this
                            >was done by selling those portions used by the county and city for more
                            >than
                            >the outstanding mortgage. Good move in my book. I do not know if the
                            >construction monies were ever repaid; what do you think?
                            >
                            >Look at what happened to the railroads on PEI and New Foundland. What
                            >"really" ended the railroads at those locations? When you put your money
                            >away for the future, I surely hope you invest with your head and not your
                            >heart. Charity comes from the heart.
                            >
                            >On another note - today I understand why many railroaders think
                            >photographers are unworthy. We encountered two different and separate
                            >photographers, yesterday and today, who took their picture, gathered their
                            >cameras, got into their cars without ever looking up at the locomotive,
                            >much
                            >less look the train over. Those guys aren't railfans. They're picture
                            >takers who take pictures of trains. I mean these clowns are on the right
                            >of
                            >way and never so much as look up or wave. One guy snapped then actually
                            >turned away as he got into his car. It was all about the picture, nothing
                            >about the train or railroad. They're the kind of guys who'll chase trips
                            >and carp about the trip operators and schedule or route, but don't buy a
                            >ticket. Too bad they get lumped into the group called railfans. Just a
                            >glance and a wave would have saved my impression.
                            >
                            >Paul
                            >
                            > >From: "Aaron Keller" <akeller1979@...>
                            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                            > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
                            > >Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 11:43:06 -0500
                            > >
                            > >Paul,
                            > >
                            > > > Every effort after 1973
                            > > > depended on the taxpayer to ensure it's success; further all those who
                            > > > offered alternatives to keep the road open, DO and after, understood
                            > >that
                            > > > they would get any profit for themselves from the taxpayer, not
                            >railroad
                            > > > operations.
                            > >
                            > >While this is true, I'd be careful as an author to henceforth compare the
                            > >mile-by-mile and ton-by-ton cost of maintaining a state highway as
                            >compared
                            > >to a mile of railroad. Every trucking company operating in America
                            >relies
                            > >on "subsidies" to a much higher degree than the railroads. J. B. Hunt,
                            > >Roadway, United Van Lines, etc., all operate over highways paid for 100%
                            >by
                            > >the taxpayer and maintained by the taxpayer's employees. They'd be out
                            >of
                            > >business if they had to maintain the highways. The difference is that
                            >the
                            > >highway system is neatly disguised as a public interest project for the
                            > >general public when in fact it is a subsidy. Other communities and in
                            >some
                            > >cases entire nations have forced traffic onto their rail systems in an
                            > >effort to keep people off the highways. It just depends on what the
                            > >individual community chooses as its transportation system.
                            > >
                            > >PS -- who was the Amtrak engineer who ran out of fuel the other day near
                            > >Ft. Edward?
                            > >
                            > >-Aaron
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                          • joseph Klapkowski
                            Walter rich was interviewed after a town Hall meeting about shutting down the FJ&G. The reporter from the Leader Herald asked a leading question about the
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 29, 2006
                              Walter rich was interviewed after a "town Hall" meeting about shutting down
                              the FJ&G. The reporter from the Leader Herald asked a leading question about
                              the impact the closing of the line might have on the local economy and the
                              county's ability to attract other businesses who needed rail service.

                              Walter pointed out that the Leader Herald had switched to trucks.

                              End of conversation.


                              >From: choochoo1802@...
                              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG
                              >Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:36:12 -0400
                              >
                              >Gino-The speed was never upgraded. Always was 10mph. There was some
                              >stone spredding on the line,but not the whole thing,just selected areas
                              >with tamping. I remember one summer we ran train only at night because
                              >the track gang had the machines out there relacing the ties. I believe
                              >it was the summer of 1979 the work was being done. Within 2 to 3 years
                              >after that the track was failing again,especially the track bed itself.
                              >I dont blame the company for it,it was just a hard line to maintain.
                              >Just needed alot of money to take care of it. Yes there was State money
                              >involved,but they had to watch their spending. With the shippers
                              >slowing down,I dont think Walt wanted to put much more money into it.I
                              >know he tried to hang onto it as long he could of. Mark
                              >
                            • Dicarlo, Gino
                              Yeah Mark, Walt told me that there just wasn t anything else to do with the line. I believe him, although I still think the NYSW became the bigger priority.
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 30, 2006
                                Yeah Mark, Walt told me that there just wasn't anything else to do with
                                the line.
                                I believe him, although I still think the NYSW became the bigger
                                priority. As it
                                Should have been, being it remains and pretty good line today! I just
                                wanted to
                                Stress the point that Walt told me the condition of the line wasn't a
                                factor at
                                All!

                                I remember reading a proposition from the Fulton County Industrial
                                committee from
                                1981. It stated that the line was going to need A LOT of money to be
                                raised to
                                15 miles an hour and that prospective shippers were turned off by the 10
                                MPH
                                Speeds. Tell me, what's the difference between 10 and 15 MPH when it
                                comes to a
                                Short line? The report also noted that the Broadalbin Line was going to
                                need to
                                Be rebuilt from scratch!!!

                                Gino

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of choochoo1802@...
                                Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 9:36 PM
                                To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG


                                Gino-The speed was never upgraded. Always was 10mph. There was some
                                stone spredding on the line,but not the whole thing,just selected areas
                                with tamping. I remember one summer we ran train only at night because
                                the track gang had the machines out there relacing the ties. I believe
                                it was the summer of 1979 the work was being done. Within 2 to 3 years
                                after that the track was failing again,especially the track bed itself.
                                I dont blame the company for it,it was just a hard line to maintain.
                                Just needed alot of money to take care of it. Yes there was State money
                                involved,but they had to watch their spending. With the shippers
                                slowing down,I dont think Walt wanted to put much more money into it.I
                                know he tried to hang onto it as long he could of. Mark




                                Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                                Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page http://www.lostlandmarks.org Visit
                                Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
                                http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Dicarlo, Gino
                                Your 2 cents is always welcome Joe! Gino ... From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joseph Klapkowski Sent:
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 30, 2006
                                  Your 2 cents is always welcome Joe!

                                  Gino

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of joseph Klapkowski
                                  Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:16 PM
                                  To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG


                                  I feel a need to add my two cents here. If you are a highly sucessful
                                  operation like say UP or NS (with Graham Claytor at the helm) and you
                                  want
                                  to spend a few bucks to have a couple of steam engines for "publicity"
                                  sake,
                                  the shareholders are not going to miss $2 million out of $350 million in

                                  profits. However if you are having trouble meeting the payroll, then
                                  scrapping some equipment or tearing up an un-needed side track will
                                  probably
                                  yield you a few bucks. Hard to argue the working capital end when you
                                  are
                                  hard pressed for money.......................
                                • Dicarlo, Gino
                                  Oh, that s great!!! Gino ... From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of joseph Klapkowski Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006
                                  Message 16 of 21 , May 30, 2006
                                    Oh, that's great!!!

                                    Gino

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of joseph Klapkowski
                                    Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 10:20 PM
                                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] The final; years of the FJG


                                    Walter rich was interviewed after a "town Hall" meeting about shutting
                                    down
                                    the FJ&G. The reporter from the Leader Herald asked a leading question
                                    about
                                    the impact the closing of the line might have on the local economy and
                                    the
                                    county's ability to attract other businesses who needed rail service.

                                    Walter pointed out that the Leader Herald had switched to trucks.

                                    End of conversation.
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.