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Re: [FJGRailroad] Digest Number 1803

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  • Paul Charland
    Hi Paul, Here s a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 4, 2006
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      Hi Paul,

      Here's a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC
      timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:

      http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc.html

      Scroll down a bit more and you will find this 1954 NYC map that includes
      the RW&O line:

      http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-map54.gif

      This is a nice historic map page that includes this 1883 New York map
      that still has the line labeled RW&O. You'll need to select a zoom, and
      then click on the map in the area of the railroad, but then you can
      either zoom in more, or simply click on the map and follow the line to
      where you want to go:

      http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:13:./temp/~ammem_7v16::

      Af for "Tower 65", I have a Conrail ETT from '78 that still shows the
      remains of the RW&O line on the Buffalo map but it's only dots like it's
      abandon. There is no reference in the ETT to this line, and no such
      animal as tower in the area. I suspect Conrail refers to towers as
      "CP"s or Control Points and if this is the case I can find CP 61 but no
      CP 65. CP 61 is on a line between Buffalo station and Suspension Bridge
      on what Conrail called the "Niagara Falls Secondary Track". It would
      look like one of the other rail lines that formed Conrail had a parallel
      line which Conrail calls the "Niagara Branch" and this is the line
      Conrail chose over the Niagara Falls Secondary what looks like it would
      have contained CP 65... this line is mentioned in a couple of other
      schedules as connecting to them, just not listed in the ETT.

      Paul :-)

      paul larner wrote:

      > Location of tower 65. Today where the Amtrak trains come in from Toronto
      > they stop for customs just as they come off the bridge. At that point can
      > be seen the remnants ofteh RW&O line which went north to Lewiston and
      > further along the lake shore. This point where the lines crossed was the
      > location of NYC tower 65 which seems to have controlled the junction. For
      > reference I use NYC employee timetable No. 7, Buffalo division.
      >
      > Paul
    • paul larner
      Paul, Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the consolidations,
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 4, 2006
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        Paul,

        Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the
        timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the
        consolidations, rationalizations and installation of TCS or CTC the term
        control point (CP) came into use. There were a number of railroads serving
        Niagara Falls in the 60's and earlier. Most remaining consolidated into Con
        Rail, obviously an apt road name. Going up there today you can see the
        ramnants and road beds of various different routes that converged on the
        Falls. The present main track between CP 8, near Black Rock, and the Falls
        is a combination of a couple former routes and a bit of relocation too.

        Today there is nothing left downtown where once there was station and
        support yards. (I haven't been there in a couple of years; there was a
        convention center on part of the former site, now maybe a Casino.) As an
        aside an interesting facet of the Falls is the generation of power for the
        industries that once huddled along the chasms edge. To accomplish this
        tunnels were dug beneath the central city from above the falls to below to
        service first the individual industries and then the large tunnel for the
        power plant that collapsed some years ago. The tunnels are still there and
        today I believe have an impact on how and where the city builds.

        PKL

        >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Digest Number 1803
        >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:10:54 -0500
        >
        >Hi Paul,
        >
        >Here's a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC
        >timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:
        >
        >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc.html
        >
        >Scroll down a bit more and you will find this 1954 NYC map that includes
        >the RW&O line:
        >
        >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-map54.gif
        >
        >This is a nice historic map page that includes this 1883 New York map
        >that still has the line labeled RW&O. You'll need to select a zoom, and
        >then click on the map in the area of the railroad, but then you can
        >either zoom in more, or simply click on the map and follow the line to
        >where you want to go:
        >
        >http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:13:./temp/~ammem_7v16::
        >
        >Af for "Tower 65", I have a Conrail ETT from '78 that still shows the
        >remains of the RW&O line on the Buffalo map but it's only dots like it's
        >abandon. There is no reference in the ETT to this line, and no such
        >animal as tower in the area. I suspect Conrail refers to towers as
        >"CP"s or Control Points and if this is the case I can find CP 61 but no
        >CP 65. CP 61 is on a line between Buffalo station and Suspension Bridge
        >on what Conrail called the "Niagara Falls Secondary Track". It would
        >look like one of the other rail lines that formed Conrail had a parallel
        >line which Conrail calls the "Niagara Branch" and this is the line
        >Conrail chose over the Niagara Falls Secondary what looks like it would
        >have contained CP 65... this line is mentioned in a couple of other
        >schedules as connecting to them, just not listed in the ETT.
        >
        >Paul :-)
        >
        >paul larner wrote:
        >
        > > Location of tower 65. Today where the Amtrak trains come in from
        >Toronto
        > > they stop for customs just as they come off the bridge. At that point
        >can
        > > be seen the remnants ofteh RW&O line which went north to Lewiston and
        > > further along the lake shore. This point where the lines crossed was
        >the
        > > location of NYC tower 65 which seems to have controlled the junction.
        >For
        > > reference I use NYC employee timetable No. 7, Buffalo division.
        > >
        > > Paul
        >
      • Paul Charland
        Hi Paul, I have a Buffalo article from March 76 Trains Magazine with a map of all the rail lines in the area including the abandoned RW&O line but the
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 5, 2006
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          Hi Paul,

          I have a "Buffalo" article from March '76 Trains Magazine with a map of
          all the rail lines in the area including the abandoned RW&O line but the
          article is written as an Erie Lackawanna article and only labels EL
          yards, towers, and points of interest, along with showing what mainlines
          in the area belong to who at the time (think this was one of the many
          'day before Conrail' articles that appeared at the time).

          There has been talk of Niagara Mohawk drilling four more tunnels for
          more turbines at the original site.

          paul larner wrote:

          > Paul,
          >
          > Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the
          > timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the
          > consolidations, rationalizations and installation of TCS or CTC the term
          > control point (CP) came into use. There were a number of railroads serving
          > Niagara Falls in the 60's and earlier. Most remaining consolidated into Con
          > Rail, obviously an apt road name. Going up there today you can see the
          > ramnants and road beds of various different routes that converged on the
          > Falls. The present main track between CP 8, near Black Rock, and the Falls
          > is a combination of a couple former routes and a bit of relocation too.
          >
          > Today there is nothing left downtown where once there was station and
          > support yards. (I haven't been there in a couple of years; there was a
          > convention center on part of the former site, now maybe a Casino.) As an
          > aside an interesting facet of the Falls is the generation of power for the
          > industries that once huddled along the chasms edge. To accomplish this
          > tunnels were dug beneath the central city from above the falls to below to
          > service first the individual industries and then the large tunnel for the
          > power plant that collapsed some years ago. The tunnels are still there and
          > today I believe have an impact on how and where the city builds.
          >
          > PKL
        • Paul Charland
          NYC Tower 65 still existed on Conrail in the 1978 ETT I have, it s the former Boston and Albany tower across from the station in Chatham, NY!
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2006
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            NYC Tower 65 still existed on Conrail in the 1978 ETT I have, it's the
            former Boston and Albany tower across from the station in Chatham, NY!

            http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/GRS%20-%20Chatham,%20NY.htm

            Paul :-)
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