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Re: [FJGRailroad] Digest Number 1803

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  • joseph Klapkowski
    Well I would bet that I have heard one of those stories before. The story about the farmer s so n and the jack ass racing the train is my favorite because of
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 4, 2006
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      Well I would bet that I have heard one of those stories before. The story
      about the farmer's so n and the jack ass racing the train is my favorite
      because of wjhere i heard it. In the Yard Office in Oswego one night just
      before I got a ride to Dewitt and back on the head end.


      >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Digest Number 1803
      >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:21:44 -0500
      >
      >Have you seen this page of the Wiki:
      >
      >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome,_Watertown_and_Ogdensburg_Railroad
      >
      >Paul :-)
      >
      >joseph Klapkowski wrote:
      > > There is precious little written about the Hojack west of Oswego.
      >According
      > > to my NYC ETT the hojack actuall ended at a place called Tower 65 which
      >was
      > > somewhere near Niagara Falls. I have an old RW&O public timetable that
      >of
      > > course shows the destination as Suspension Bridge.
      > >
      > > Anyone know where tower 65 was. Better yet anyone belong to the NYC
      > > Historical society ? Maybe some member there would have some info on the
      > > line.
    • Paul Charland
      Hi Paul, Here s a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 4, 2006
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        Hi Paul,

        Here's a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC
        timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:

        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc.html

        Scroll down a bit more and you will find this 1954 NYC map that includes
        the RW&O line:

        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-map54.gif

        This is a nice historic map page that includes this 1883 New York map
        that still has the line labeled RW&O. You'll need to select a zoom, and
        then click on the map in the area of the railroad, but then you can
        either zoom in more, or simply click on the map and follow the line to
        where you want to go:

        http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:13:./temp/~ammem_7v16::

        Af for "Tower 65", I have a Conrail ETT from '78 that still shows the
        remains of the RW&O line on the Buffalo map but it's only dots like it's
        abandon. There is no reference in the ETT to this line, and no such
        animal as tower in the area. I suspect Conrail refers to towers as
        "CP"s or Control Points and if this is the case I can find CP 61 but no
        CP 65. CP 61 is on a line between Buffalo station and Suspension Bridge
        on what Conrail called the "Niagara Falls Secondary Track". It would
        look like one of the other rail lines that formed Conrail had a parallel
        line which Conrail calls the "Niagara Branch" and this is the line
        Conrail chose over the Niagara Falls Secondary what looks like it would
        have contained CP 65... this line is mentioned in a couple of other
        schedules as connecting to them, just not listed in the ETT.

        Paul :-)

        paul larner wrote:

        > Location of tower 65. Today where the Amtrak trains come in from Toronto
        > they stop for customs just as they come off the bridge. At that point can
        > be seen the remnants ofteh RW&O line which went north to Lewiston and
        > further along the lake shore. This point where the lines crossed was the
        > location of NYC tower 65 which seems to have controlled the junction. For
        > reference I use NYC employee timetable No. 7, Buffalo division.
        >
        > Paul
      • paul larner
        Paul, Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the consolidations,
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 4, 2006
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          Paul,

          Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the
          timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the
          consolidations, rationalizations and installation of TCS or CTC the term
          control point (CP) came into use. There were a number of railroads serving
          Niagara Falls in the 60's and earlier. Most remaining consolidated into Con
          Rail, obviously an apt road name. Going up there today you can see the
          ramnants and road beds of various different routes that converged on the
          Falls. The present main track between CP 8, near Black Rock, and the Falls
          is a combination of a couple former routes and a bit of relocation too.

          Today there is nothing left downtown where once there was station and
          support yards. (I haven't been there in a couple of years; there was a
          convention center on part of the former site, now maybe a Casino.) As an
          aside an interesting facet of the Falls is the generation of power for the
          industries that once huddled along the chasms edge. To accomplish this
          tunnels were dug beneath the central city from above the falls to below to
          service first the individual industries and then the large tunnel for the
          power plant that collapsed some years ago. The tunnels are still there and
          today I believe have an impact on how and where the city builds.

          PKL

          >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Digest Number 1803
          >Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 13:10:54 -0500
          >
          >Hi Paul,
          >
          >Here's a site with a ton of NYC files, scroll down and you will find NYC
          >timetables from as far back as the mid-teens:
          >
          >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc.html
          >
          >Scroll down a bit more and you will find this 1954 NYC map that includes
          >the RW&O line:
          >
          >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/nyc/nyc-map54.gif
          >
          >This is a nice historic map page that includes this 1883 New York map
          >that still has the line labeled RW&O. You'll need to select a zoom, and
          >then click on the map in the area of the railroad, but then you can
          >either zoom in more, or simply click on the map and follow the line to
          >where you want to go:
          >
          >http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:13:./temp/~ammem_7v16::
          >
          >Af for "Tower 65", I have a Conrail ETT from '78 that still shows the
          >remains of the RW&O line on the Buffalo map but it's only dots like it's
          >abandon. There is no reference in the ETT to this line, and no such
          >animal as tower in the area. I suspect Conrail refers to towers as
          >"CP"s or Control Points and if this is the case I can find CP 61 but no
          >CP 65. CP 61 is on a line between Buffalo station and Suspension Bridge
          >on what Conrail called the "Niagara Falls Secondary Track". It would
          >look like one of the other rail lines that formed Conrail had a parallel
          >line which Conrail calls the "Niagara Branch" and this is the line
          >Conrail chose over the Niagara Falls Secondary what looks like it would
          >have contained CP 65... this line is mentioned in a couple of other
          >schedules as connecting to them, just not listed in the ETT.
          >
          >Paul :-)
          >
          >paul larner wrote:
          >
          > > Location of tower 65. Today where the Amtrak trains come in from
          >Toronto
          > > they stop for customs just as they come off the bridge. At that point
          >can
          > > be seen the remnants ofteh RW&O line which went north to Lewiston and
          > > further along the lake shore. This point where the lines crossed was
          >the
          > > location of NYC tower 65 which seems to have controlled the junction.
          >For
          > > reference I use NYC employee timetable No. 7, Buffalo division.
          > >
          > > Paul
          >
        • Paul Charland
          Hi Paul, I have a Buffalo article from March 76 Trains Magazine with a map of all the rail lines in the area including the abandoned RW&O line but the
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2006
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            Hi Paul,

            I have a "Buffalo" article from March '76 Trains Magazine with a map of
            all the rail lines in the area including the abandoned RW&O line but the
            article is written as an Erie Lackawanna article and only labels EL
            yards, towers, and points of interest, along with showing what mainlines
            in the area belong to who at the time (think this was one of the many
            'day before Conrail' articles that appeared at the time).

            There has been talk of Niagara Mohawk drilling four more tunnels for
            more turbines at the original site.

            paul larner wrote:

            > Paul,
            >
            > Thanks for the references. I neglected to give you the date of the
            > timetable I used. It was from April 1960. Sometime after the
            > consolidations, rationalizations and installation of TCS or CTC the term
            > control point (CP) came into use. There were a number of railroads serving
            > Niagara Falls in the 60's and earlier. Most remaining consolidated into Con
            > Rail, obviously an apt road name. Going up there today you can see the
            > ramnants and road beds of various different routes that converged on the
            > Falls. The present main track between CP 8, near Black Rock, and the Falls
            > is a combination of a couple former routes and a bit of relocation too.
            >
            > Today there is nothing left downtown where once there was station and
            > support yards. (I haven't been there in a couple of years; there was a
            > convention center on part of the former site, now maybe a Casino.) As an
            > aside an interesting facet of the Falls is the generation of power for the
            > industries that once huddled along the chasms edge. To accomplish this
            > tunnels were dug beneath the central city from above the falls to below to
            > service first the individual industries and then the large tunnel for the
            > power plant that collapsed some years ago. The tunnels are still there and
            > today I believe have an impact on how and where the city builds.
            >
            > PKL
          • Paul Charland
            NYC Tower 65 still existed on Conrail in the 1978 ETT I have, it s the former Boston and Albany tower across from the station in Chatham, NY!
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 5, 2006
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              NYC Tower 65 still existed on Conrail in the 1978 ETT I have, it's the
              former Boston and Albany tower across from the station in Chatham, NY!

              http://www.trainweb.org/rshs/GRS%20-%20Chatham,%20NY.htm

              Paul :-)
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