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NSL

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  • Dicarlo, Gino
    Hi guys, Can someone give me a little info on the company that owned the NSL? I ve been noticing some models Lately that have the same logo and figure there
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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      NSL

      Hi guys,

      Can someone give me a little info on the company that owned the NSL?  I've been noticing some models
      Lately that have the same logo and figure there must have been a company who owned different railroads?
      I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a PICKens boxcar and there's that logo again.  I also have
      Something else in my layout, can't think of her right now but maybe a New Jersey line?  Maybe Morristown
      And something-or-other?

      Gino

      Gino DiCarlo
      Imaging

      Quad/Imaging
      A Division of Quad/Graphics

      Saratoga Springs, New York
      518-581-4276 phone
      gino.dicarlo@...
      www.QG.com

    • Jason C
      Gino, Might be Middletown and New Jersey. I think they were a Pickens line for a while. Here s a picture of one of their cars:
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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        Gino,

        Might be Middletown and New Jersey. I think they were
        a Pickens line for a while. Here's a picture of one
        of their cars:

        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mnj120840.jpg

        I *think* this one is a match for the Berwick car that
        Branchline trains has out. BTW, the D&H cars in the
        255xx series MAY have been from one of the former
        NRUC/Pickens roads. Here's a picture of one:

        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh25542ajk.jpg

        It did have a door opener 'brake wheel' at one time
        but that's missing in the picture. Somewhere, I
        remember reading where these cars came from prior to
        the D&H getting them but I can't remember at the
        moment.

        Since I'm already off track and going on about the
        D&H's IPD cars, here's another class of car that was
        lettered for a shortline before the D&H acquired them:

        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27242k.jpg
        http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27324agd.jpg

        These 272xx and 273xx series cars were originally
        Upper Merrion and Plymouth (UM&P) I believe. This car
        is the Pullman Standard 5344 cuft plate C car. This
        can be easily modeled from the Athearn model of the PS
        5344 and they even produced it in the D&H paint as a
        kit.

        Hope that answers your question and maybe a couple
        more questions that you didn't know you needed to
        know.

        Jason Cook
        Fort Wayne, IN

        --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:

        >
        > Hi guys,
        >
        > Can someone give me a little info on the company
        > that owned the NSL?
        > I've been noticing some models
        > Lately that have the same logo and figure there must
        > have been a company
        > who owned different railroads?
        > I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a
        > PICKens boxcar and there's
        > that logo again. I also have
        > Something else in my layout, can't think of her
        > right now but maybe a
        > New Jersey line? Maybe Morristown
        > And something-or-other?
        >
        > Gino
        >
        > Gino DiCarlo
        > Imaging
        >
        > > Quad/Imaging
        > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
        > >
        > Saratoga Springs, New York
        > 518-581-4276 phone
        > gino.dicarlo@...
        > > www.QG.com
        > >
        >





        __________________________________
        Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Jason C
        Gino, I didn t really answer your question about the company that owned the cars. Try this link, it s very interesting reading:
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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          Gino,

          I didn't really answer your question about the company
          that 'owned' the cars. Try this link, it's very
          interesting reading:

          http://www.mnjrhs.org/nruc.html

          Some more history:

          http://yardlimit.railfan.net/gallery/nsl/

          Another blurb (under National Railway Utilization
          Company):

          http://www.ironhorse129.com/rollingstock/list/bldr_list_N.htm

          Jason

          --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:

          >
          > Hi guys,
          >
          > Can someone give me a little info on the company
          > that owned the NSL?
          > I've been noticing some models
          > Lately that have the same logo and figure there must
          > have been a company
          > who owned different railroads?
          > I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a
          > PICKens boxcar and there's
          > that logo again. I also have
          > Something else in my layout, can't think of her
          > right now but maybe a
          > New Jersey line? Maybe Morristown
          > And something-or-other?
          >
          > Gino
          >
          > Gino DiCarlo
          > Imaging
          >
          > > Quad/Imaging
          > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
          > >
          > Saratoga Springs, New York
          > 518-581-4276 phone
          > gino.dicarlo@...
          > > www.QG.com
          > >
          >




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        • Dicarlo, Gino
          Yeah Jason, thanks for the info! The boxcars I have are a Middletown & New Jersey And a Norwood and St. Lawrence. Athearn has new N-scale Berwick cars and
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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            Yeah Jason, thanks for the info! The boxcars I have are a Middletown &
            New Jersey
            And a Norwood and St. Lawrence. Athearn has new N-scale Berwick cars
            and PICKens is
            One of the roads. I'd never heard of her though...

            Gino

            -----Original Message-----
            From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Jason C
            Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:00 PM
            To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL


            Gino,

            Might be Middletown and New Jersey. I think they were
            a Pickens line for a while. Here's a picture of one
            of their cars:

            http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mnj120840.jpg

            I *think* this one is a match for the Berwick car that Branchline trains
            has out. BTW, the D&H cars in the 255xx series MAY have been from one
            of the former NRUC/Pickens roads. Here's a picture of one:

            http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh25542ajk.jpg

            It did have a door opener 'brake wheel' at one time
            but that's missing in the picture. Somewhere, I
            remember reading where these cars came from prior to
            the D&H getting them but I can't remember at the
            moment.

            Since I'm already off track and going on about the
            D&H's IPD cars, here's another class of car that was
            lettered for a shortline before the D&H acquired them:

            http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27242k.jpg
            http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27324agd.jpg

            These 272xx and 273xx series cars were originally
            Upper Merrion and Plymouth (UM&P) I believe. This car
            is the Pullman Standard 5344 cuft plate C car. This
            can be easily modeled from the Athearn model of the PS
            5344 and they even produced it in the D&H paint as a
            kit.

            Hope that answers your question and maybe a couple
            more questions that you didn't know you needed to
            know.

            Jason Cook
            Fort Wayne, IN
          • Paul Charland
            Hi Gino, Check this out: http://yardlimit.railfan.net/gallery/nsl/index.html I think Paul C has a few shots on this site. Paul C :-)
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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              Hi Gino,

              Check this out:

              http://yardlimit.railfan.net/gallery/nsl/index.html

              I think Paul C has a few shots on this site.

              Paul C :-)

              Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
              > Hi guys,
              >
              > Can someone give me a little info on the company that owned the NSL?
              > I've been noticing some models
              > Lately that have the same logo and figure there must have been a company
              > who owned different railroads?
              > I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a PICKens boxcar and there's
              > that logo again. I also have
              > Something else in my layout, can't think of her right now but maybe a
              > New Jersey line? Maybe Morristown
              > And something-or-other?
              >
              > Gino
            • Gino's Railpage
              Great site Paul! I love the 70-tonners that they used. There s a railroad up in Canada that uses the 70-tonner that the Saratoga & Schuylerville used. They
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                Great site Paul!  I love the 70-tonners that they used.  There's a railroad up in
                Canada that uses the 70-tonner that the Saratoga & Schuylerville used.  They
                must have been good locos to last this long!
                 
                Gino

                 
                On 11/3/05, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
                Hi Gino,

                Check this out:

                http://yardlimit.railfan.net/gallery/nsl/index.html

                I think Paul C has a few shots on this site.

                Paul C :-)

              • Paul Charland
                For a while Canada Starch in Cardinal (right across the St. Lawrence River from Ogdensburg NY) used an ex- NSL 70 Tonner for it s plant switcher, they ended up
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                  For a while Canada Starch in Cardinal (right across the St. Lawrence
                  River from Ogdensburg NY) used an ex- NSL 70 Tonner for it's plant
                  switcher, they ended up with one of the few remaining Central of New
                  Jersey RS-3s.

                  NSL at one time was a booming little line. They invested heavily in
                  "Incentive Per Diem" cars and as we all know, the money made from these
                  cars could only be put back into more boxcars. When the boxcar crunch
                  became a glut, cars were returned to their owners including the NSL who
                  had a couple of thousand returned in such a short period they ended up
                  having about eight miles of cars sitting on their mainline to the 'Burg
                  and couldn't deliver anything for quite some time.

                  Paul :-)

                  Gino's Railpage wrote:
                  > Great site Paul! I love the 70-tonners that they used. There's a railroad up
                  > in
                  > Canada that uses the 70-tonner that the Saratoga & Schuylerville used. They
                  > must have been good locos to last this long!
                  > Gino
                • Dicarlo, Gino
                  I think they had about 2 miles of boxcars on the FJ&G. It gave people the impression That the FJ&G was so busy, just because of those cars. I remember them
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                    I think they had about 2 miles of boxcars on the FJ&G. It gave people
                    the impression
                    That the FJ&G was so busy, just because of those cars. I remember them
                    getting pulled
                    Out in 1983. There were some long string of NSL boxcars heading down
                    the line. They
                    Could pull a bunch of empty cars downhill. I also remember them sitting
                    at the CR
                    Interchange...

                    Gino

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Paul Charland
                    Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:25 PM
                    To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL


                    For a while Canada Starch in Cardinal (right across the St. Lawrence
                    River from Ogdensburg NY) used an ex- NSL 70 Tonner for it's plant
                    switcher, they ended up with one of the few remaining Central of New
                    Jersey RS-3s.

                    NSL at one time was a booming little line. They invested heavily in
                    "Incentive Per Diem" cars and as we all know, the money made from these
                    cars could only be put back into more boxcars. When the boxcar crunch
                    became a glut, cars were returned to their owners including the NSL who
                    had a couple of thousand returned in such a short period they ended up
                    having about eight miles of cars sitting on their mainline to the 'Burg
                    and couldn't deliver anything for quite some time.

                    Paul :-)
                  • Paul Charland
                    Hi Gino, There were NSL cars stored just about everywhere, plus lots of lines picked up pretty good boxcars at a reduced price. Paul :-)
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                      Hi Gino,

                      There were NSL cars stored just about everywhere, plus lots of lines
                      picked up pretty good boxcars at a reduced price.

                      Paul :-)

                      Dicarlo, Gino wrote:
                      > I think they had about 2 miles of boxcars on the FJ&G. It gave people
                      > the impression
                      > That the FJ&G was so busy, just because of those cars. I remember them
                      > getting pulled
                      > Out in 1983. There were some long string of NSL boxcars heading down
                      > the line. They
                      > Could pull a bunch of empty cars downhill. I also remember them sitting
                      > at the CR
                      > Interchange...
                      >
                      > Gino
                    • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                      Nothing like pulling out 60 cars out of a long track so we could spot a car for the Leader Herald on Harrison St. Three hour move to spot one car. Mark
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                        Nothing like pulling out 60 cars out of a long track so we could spot a
                        car for the Leader Herald on Harrison St. Three hour move to spot one
                        car. Mark
                      • paul larner
                        Do a search on NRUC, National Railway Utilization Company or Corporation. Many years ago as the per diem business began to fail, we made a deal to store a
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                          Do a search on NRUC, National Railway Utilization Company or Corporation.
                          Many years ago as the per diem business began to fail, we made a deal to
                          store a number of their cars on our line. We also took 26 of them into our
                          inventory. 600400-600425, I think were their numbers. These cars were the
                          light blue wiith star and stripe logo, many marked NSL. If someone has
                          access to an Equipment Register for the early eighties yoiu should be able
                          to find them. This was one of the free wheeling companys buying freight
                          cars using other people's money when the box car market became tight. The
                          cars fall into the same category as the FJ&G XM box cars used to raise
                          earnings through per diem from the railroads. With deprescription of car
                          hire the railroads found ways to frustrate the "non railroad" car owners and
                          eventually most of the cars were sidelined. Non railroad in the sense that
                          these non railroad companies created or bought short lines in order to put
                          their cars out with railroad markings. NRUC I believe was one of the
                          companies which owned more cars than they had track to hold them.

                          PKL


                          >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                          >Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:12:30 -0600
                          >
                          >
                          >Hi guys,
                          >
                          >Can someone give me a little info on the company that owned the NSL?
                          >I've been noticing some models
                          >Lately that have the same logo and figure there must have been a company
                          >who owned different railroads?
                          >I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a PICKens boxcar and there's
                          >that logo again. I also have
                          >Something else in my layout, can't think of her right now but maybe a
                          >New Jersey line? Maybe Morristown
                          >And something-or-other?
                          >
                          >Gino
                          >
                          >Gino DiCarlo
                          >Imaging
                          >
                          > > Quad/Imaging
                          > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
                          > >
                          >Saratoga Springs, New York
                          >518-581-4276 phone
                          >gino.dicarlo@...
                          > > www.QG.com
                          > >
                        • paul larner
                          You mention that brake wheel that was used as an assist in opening the doors. They were a pain i n the neck if not the owners pocketbook, I m sure. They
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                            You mention that "brake wheel" that was used as an assist in opening the
                            doors. They were a pain i n the neck if not the owners pocketbook, I'm
                            sure. They were often broken and could be repaired by the handling road
                            charging the car owner.

                            PKL

                            >From: Jason C <dhc628@...>
                            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                            >Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 10:00:15 -0800 (PST)
                            >
                            >Gino,
                            >
                            >Might be Middletown and New Jersey. I think they were
                            >a Pickens line for a while. Here's a picture of one
                            >of their cars:
                            >
                            >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-m/mnj120840.jpg
                            >
                            >I *think* this one is a match for the Berwick car that
                            >Branchline trains has out. BTW, the D&H cars in the
                            >255xx series MAY have been from one of the former
                            >NRUC/Pickens roads. Here's a picture of one:
                            >
                            >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh25542ajk.jpg
                            >
                            >It did have a door opener 'brake wheel' at one time
                            >but that's missing in the picture. Somewhere, I
                            >remember reading where these cars came from prior to
                            >the D&H getting them but I can't remember at the
                            >moment.
                            >
                            >Since I'm already off track and going on about the
                            >D&H's IPD cars, here's another class of car that was
                            >lettered for a shortline before the D&H acquired them:
                            >
                            >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27242k.jpg
                            >http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/dh/dh27324agd.jpg
                            >
                            >These 272xx and 273xx series cars were originally
                            >Upper Merrion and Plymouth (UM&P) I believe. This car
                            >is the Pullman Standard 5344 cuft plate C car. This
                            >can be easily modeled from the Athearn model of the PS
                            >5344 and they even produced it in the D&H paint as a
                            >kit.
                            >
                            >Hope that answers your question and maybe a couple
                            >more questions that you didn't know you needed to
                            >know.
                            >
                            >Jason Cook
                            >Fort Wayne, IN
                            >
                            >--- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Hi guys,
                            > >
                            > > Can someone give me a little info on the company
                            > > that owned the NSL?
                            > > I've been noticing some models
                            > > Lately that have the same logo and figure there must
                            > > have been a company
                            > > who owned different railroads?
                            > > I just saw a new car come out for Ahearn of a
                            > > PICKens boxcar and there's
                            > > that logo again. I also have
                            > > Something else in my layout, can't think of her
                            > > right now but maybe a
                            > > New Jersey line? Maybe Morristown
                            > > And something-or-other?
                            > >
                            > > Gino
                            > >
                            > > Gino DiCarlo
                            > > Imaging
                            > >
                            > > > Quad/Imaging
                            > > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
                            > > >
                            > > Saratoga Springs, New York
                            > > 518-581-4276 phone
                            > > gino.dicarlo@...
                            > > > www.QG.com
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >__________________________________
                            >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                            >http://mail.yahoo.com
                          • Paul Charland
                            Hi Paul, 28 cars total, think they were stored just north of Waterbury in 81 before they became CV cars. 600400-600427 XM Boxcar 28
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                              Hi Paul,

                              28 cars total, think they were stored just north of Waterbury in '81
                              before they became CV cars.

                              600400-600427 XM Boxcar 28 7/1981-1/2002 50.6
                              11.0 10.0 5277 SIECO 5/78 Stl. 20" travel cush.
                              underframe, strap anchors, newsprint svc. xNSL 155009-155027 (+?)

                              Paul :-)

                              paul larner wrote:
                              > Do a search on NRUC, National Railway Utilization Company or Corporation.
                              > Many years ago as the per diem business began to fail, we made a deal to
                              > store a number of their cars on our line. We also took 26 of them into our
                              > inventory. 600400-600425, I think were their numbers. These cars were the
                              > light blue wiith star and stripe logo, many marked NSL. If someone has
                              > access to an Equipment Register for the early eighties yoiu should be able
                              > to find them. This was one of the free wheeling companys buying freight
                              > cars using other people's money when the box car market became tight. The
                              > cars fall into the same category as the FJ&G XM box cars used to raise
                              > earnings through per diem from the railroads. With deprescription of car
                              > hire the railroads found ways to frustrate the "non railroad" car owners and
                              > eventually most of the cars were sidelined. Non railroad in the sense that
                              > these non railroad companies created or bought short lines in order to put
                              > their cars out with railroad markings. NRUC I believe was one of the
                              > companies which owned more cars than they had track to hold them.
                              >
                              > PKL
                            • paul larner
                              Hello Paul, As I recall that deal was forced on us by GTW; someone had some connection with one of the NRUC principles. These equipment trusts were the first
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                                Hello Paul,

                                As I recall that deal was forced on us by GTW; someone had some connection
                                with one of the NRUC principles. These equipment trusts were the first
                                companies to go around buying up dead railroads and branches only so they
                                could get into the per diem pool.

                                We also had a large number of their cars stored in Oakland and other under
                                utilized tracks. When they went out they often were called for by number
                                and needed to be switched out then run by the repair track. A lot of work
                                for little return as I recall the episode. I really don't believe the cars
                                were that good, though the incentive perdiem market made some quick money
                                for savvy investors, savvy enough to get out early.

                                The shake out was interesting. The real railroads with their own fleets of
                                box cars wouldn't use them or move them. They did serve their purpose but
                                they filled a gap as the XM box car was being supplanted by TOFC and COFC.

                                Are you able to trace the rest of the NRUC history. I suppose someone has
                                done the book on that period in railroad history; would like to see it.

                                PKL


                                >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                >Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:09:45 -0500
                                >
                                >Hi Paul,
                                >
                                >28 cars total, think they were stored just north of Waterbury in '81
                                >before they became CV cars.
                                >
                                >600400-600427 XM Boxcar 28 7/1981-1/2002 50.6
                                >11.0 10.0 5277 SIECO 5/78 Stl. 20" travel cush.
                                >underframe, strap anchors, newsprint svc. xNSL 155009-155027 (+?)
                                >
                                >Paul :-)
                                >
                                >paul larner wrote:
                                > > Do a search on NRUC, National Railway Utilization Company or
                                >Corporation.
                                > > Many years ago as the per diem business began to fail, we made a deal to
                                > > store a number of their cars on our line. We also took 26 of them into
                                >our
                                > > inventory. 600400-600425, I think were their numbers. These cars were
                                >the
                                > > light blue wiith star and stripe logo, many marked NSL. If someone has
                                > > access to an Equipment Register for the early eighties yoiu should be
                                >able
                                > > to find them. This was one of the free wheeling companys buying freight
                                > > cars using other people's money when the box car market became tight.
                                >The
                                > > cars fall into the same category as the FJ&G XM box cars used to raise
                                > > earnings through per diem from the railroads. With deprescription of
                                >car
                                > > hire the railroads found ways to frustrate the "non railroad" car owners
                                >and
                                > > eventually most of the cars were sidelined. Non railroad in the sense
                                >that
                                > > these non railroad companies created or bought short lines in order to
                                >put
                                > > their cars out with railroad markings. NRUC I believe was one of the
                                > > companies which owned more cars than they had track to hold them.
                                > >
                                > > PKL
                              • paul larner
                                Googled NRUC and found a good M&NJ article explaing the effect of this scheme on one road and the impact on some of the investors. Where did NRUC go? About
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 3, 2005
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                                  Googled NRUC and found a good M&NJ article explaing the effect of this
                                  scheme on one road and the impact on some of the investors. Where did NRUC
                                  go? About nine pages in I found a title "Exhibit B". This is a bankruptcy
                                  filing by a company CII from Pickens (in one of the Carolinas). It's a
                                  long read but several pages in it begins to talk about the company and it's
                                  relationship with the parent, originally NRUC and later Emergent and other
                                  charades.

                                  This filing should make every one who reads it think real hard about who
                                  they are doing business with when they consider mortgages or equity loans.
                                  There are a lot of sharks out there looking for our money. It appears NRUC
                                  was (is - under a new name)one of them. I'm reminded of adages about only
                                  the little guys lose their money - the big fish swim away with it.

                                  I'll now have to go back and review my notes on the box cars assigned the
                                  FJG reporting marks. They were part of this same IPD pool of cars, not
                                  meaning to imply they were NRUC cars, others were using this loophole too.
                                  Their acquisition and use may have been under the same circumstances as
                                  defined existing between NRUC and M&NJ.

                                  PKL



                                  >From: Paul Charland <p.charlie@...>
                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                  >Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 22:09:45 -0500
                                  >
                                  >Hi Paul,
                                  >
                                  >28 cars total, think they were stored just north of Waterbury in '81
                                  >before they became CV cars.
                                  >
                                  >600400-600427 XM Boxcar 28 7/1981-1/2002 50.6
                                  >11.0 10.0 5277 SIECO 5/78 Stl. 20" travel cush.
                                  >underframe, strap anchors, newsprint svc. xNSL 155009-155027 (+?)
                                  >
                                  >Paul :-)
                                  >
                                  >paul larner wrote:
                                  > > Do a search on NRUC, National Railway Utilization Company or
                                  >Corporation.
                                  > > Many years ago as the per diem business began to fail, we made a deal to
                                  > > store a number of their cars on our line. We also took 26 of them into
                                  >our
                                  > > inventory. 600400-600425, I think were their numbers. These cars were
                                  >the
                                  > > light blue wiith star and stripe logo, many marked NSL. If someone has
                                  > > access to an Equipment Register for the early eighties yoiu should be
                                  >able
                                  > > to find them. This was one of the free wheeling companys buying freight
                                  > > cars using other people's money when the box car market became tight.
                                  >The
                                  > > cars fall into the same category as the FJ&G XM box cars used to raise
                                  > > earnings through per diem from the railroads. With deprescription of
                                  >car
                                  > > hire the railroads found ways to frustrate the "non railroad" car owners
                                  >and
                                  > > eventually most of the cars were sidelined. Non railroad in the sense
                                  >that
                                  > > these non railroad companies created or bought short lines in order to
                                  >put
                                  > > their cars out with railroad markings. NRUC I believe was one of the
                                  > > companies which owned more cars than they had track to hold them.
                                  > >
                                  > > PKL
                                • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                                  I remember some one saying we got $1.50 per NSL car per day for storage. Mark
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I remember some one saying we got $1.50 per NSL car per day for storage.
                                    Mark
                                  • Gino's Railpage
                                    So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying to keep them on someone s line? How did the NSL make money if product wasn t being shipped
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying to keep them on someone's line?  How did the NSL make money if product wasn't being shipped in their cars?
                                       
                                      Gino

                                       
                                      On 11/4/05, choochoo1802@... <choochoo1802@...> wrote:
                                      I remember some one saying we got $1.50 per NSL car per day for storage.
                                      Mark



                                      Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                                      Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                                      http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                                      Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
                                      http://ny.existingstations.com/




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                                    • Paul Charland
                                      Hi All, The way Incentive per Diem rates were set up, at the stroke of midnight, the railroad where the IPD car was sitting paid the rate for the day. This
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                        Hi All,

                                        The way Incentive per Diem rates were set up, at the stroke of midnight,
                                        the railroad where the IPD car was sitting paid the rate for the day.
                                        This lead to a lot of last minute switching to dump these cars on you
                                        neighbor's interchange track before the clock struck twelve. In the
                                        early '80s the IPD rate was dropped and many shortlines ended up with
                                        way too many cars and had to make arrangements to store cars off line at
                                        a cost or sell them at a loss for the most part. As Paul said, these
                                        cars may not have been great but they did allow many lines to retire old
                                        40' cars and therefore increase revenue by being able to offer 50' cars.
                                        Ontario Northland picked up about 25 NSL cars to become ONTA for
                                        international service.

                                        Pickens, Middletown and New Jersey, Peninsula Terminal, and Norwood and
                                        St. Lawrence were all members of National Railway Utilization
                                        Corporation, probably others I can't remember. They were buying boxcar
                                        kits to assemble in Ogdensburg and it was such a hopping business for a
                                        while they had to have trucks built in Germany and shipped over, the
                                        North American suppliers couldn't keep up with the demand.

                                        Paul :-)

                                        Gino's Railpage wrote:
                                        > So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying
                                        > to keep them on someone's line? How did the NSL make money if product
                                        > wasn't being shipped in their cars? Gino
                                        >
                                      • Gino's Railpage
                                        That s the other car I have the NSL logo on it. The Penisula Terminal. Any idea where this line was located? Gino
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          That's the other car I have the NSL logo on it.  The Penisula Terminal.  Any idea where this line was located?
                                           
                                          Gino

                                           
                                          On 11/4/05, Paul Charland <p.charlie@...> wrote:
                                          Hi All,

                                          The way Incentive per Diem rates were set up, at the stroke of midnight,
                                          the railroad where the IPD car was sitting paid the rate for the day.
                                          This lead to a lot of last minute switching to dump these cars on you
                                          neighbor's interchange track before the clock struck twelve.  In the
                                          early '80s the IPD rate was dropped and many shortlines ended up with
                                          way too many cars and had to make arrangements to store cars off line at
                                          a cost or sell them at a loss for the most part.  As Paul said, these
                                          cars may not have been great but they did allow many lines to retire old
                                          40' cars and therefore increase revenue by being able to offer 50' cars.
                                            Ontario Northland picked up about 25 NSL cars to become ONTA for
                                          international service.

                                          Pickens, Middletown and New Jersey, Peninsula Terminal, and Norwood and
                                          St. Lawrence were all members of National Railway Utilization
                                          Corporation, probably others I can't remember.  They were buying boxcar
                                          kits to assemble in Ogdensburg and it was such a hopping business for a
                                          while they had to have trucks built in Germany and shipped over, the
                                          North American suppliers couldn't keep up with the demand.

                                          Paul :-)

                                          Gino's Railpage wrote:
                                          > So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying
                                          > to keep them on someone's line? How did the NSL make money if product
                                          >  wasn't being shipped in their cars? Gino
                                          >
                                        • Paul Charland
                                          Just west of Syracuse in a place called Oregon! Paul :-)
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                            Just west of Syracuse in a place called Oregon!

                                            Paul :-)

                                            Gino's Railpage wrote:

                                            > That's the other car I have the NSL logo on it. The Penisula Terminal. Any
                                            > idea where this line was located?
                                            > Gino
                                          • paul larner
                                            That was the whole point. They didn t make money. it was an investment scheme, perhaps like a pyrammid where the early guys got in made money then the
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              That was the whole point. They didn't make money. it was an investment
                                              scheme, perhaps like a pyrammid where the early guys got in made money then
                                              the railroads were flooded with these cars. it was a good idea to solve a
                                              XM shortage the wenrt as tray as the sharks got in. Called unexpected
                                              consequences. RThe railroads who had cars that weren't being used would
                                              return the cars to the owning road unloaded, eventually the roads received
                                              all their cars back and since so many were dead already or marginal withpout
                                              sufficient on line business to reload and get them back into the system. if
                                              they didn't move they didn't earn.

                                              After deprescription of car hire, the railroads could refuse to move them
                                              unless the owner paid. They also had tjhe ability to negotiate individual
                                              car hire rates. I thought I would have to start this processs but never had
                                              the need. Our cars continued in service and earned what they had, can't
                                              recall any problems though I'm sure I must hve discussed my concerns with
                                              other industry Car Service people. I can't recall any of the discussions I
                                              had at the time, but believe we had no real problems because we were a
                                              "real" railroad and of course had an outlet to the CN for papare loading.
                                              When we got the "Buncher " cars (600400 et.seq.)we didn't need them. There
                                              was a while the CN wouldn't take our cars as business declined and they had
                                              an over supply. That sounds a little ridiculous that CN would have an
                                              oversupply but this was it existed for a short while. I recall talking with
                                              them on that - kind of wish I had kept a diary now. Been a lot of trains
                                              passed by and I can't recall all the engine numbers, dates, places or times.

                                              The NSL needed places to put their cars once no one would load them. They
                                              had to pay not only to have someone store them but also they had to pay the
                                              class ones to get them there. What we received I do not know. VTR fell
                                              into this too. We hadtheir surplus cars stored on line for a while too.
                                              Like I said - the glut was an unintended consequence of a very liberal idea
                                              re funding to get needed XM box cars. As I said inanother missive at
                                              thistime TOFC and COFC was absorbing much of the XM market.

                                              Check tht aarticle on NRUC from Google. The guys who ran that company were
                                              folks who made their money making deals with other peoples money. Good work
                                              if you can get it. WHther it's the over hyped stock market, freight car
                                              market or Real Estate investment trust, the adage of is it sounds to good
                                              to be true (sound) it probably is.

                                              Gotta go or 447 won't leave on time.

                                              PKL




                                              >From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...>
                                              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                              >Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:05:21 -0500
                                              >
                                              >So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying to
                                              >keep
                                              >them on someone's line? How did the NSL make money if product wasn't being
                                              >shipped in their cars?
                                              > Gino
                                              >
                                              > On 11/4/05, choochoo1802@... <choochoo1802@...> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > I remember some one saying we got $1.50 per NSL car per day for storage.
                                              > > Mark
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                                              > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                                              > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                                              > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State
                                              > > at
                                              > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                              > > Business finance
                                              >course<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+course&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=JpO2n_TPM_hCfATLtBqWFQ>
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                                              >Business
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                                              > > ------------------------------
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                                              >"FJGRailroad<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad>"
                                              > > on the web.
                                              > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > >
                                              >FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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                                              > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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                                            • paul larner
                                              Boy typing fast on a laptop sure leaves a lot to e edited.
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Boy typing fast on a laptop sure leaves a lot to e edited.


                                                >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                                >Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 11:24:26 -0500
                                                >
                                                >That was the whole point. They didn't make money. it was an investment
                                                >scheme, perhaps like a pyrammid where the early guys got in made money then
                                                >the railroads were flooded with these cars. it was a good idea to solve a
                                                >XM shortage the wenrt as tray as the sharks got in. Called unexpected
                                                >consequences. RThe railroads who had cars that weren't being used would
                                                >return the cars to the owning road unloaded, eventually the roads received
                                                >all their cars back and since so many were dead already or marginal
                                                >withpout
                                                >sufficient on line business to reload and get them back into the system.
                                                >if
                                                >they didn't move they didn't earn.
                                                >
                                                >After deprescription of car hire, the railroads could refuse to move them
                                                >unless the owner paid. They also had tjhe ability to negotiate individual
                                                >car hire rates. I thought I would have to start this processs but never
                                                >had
                                                >the need. Our cars continued in service and earned what they had, can't
                                                >recall any problems though I'm sure I must hve discussed my concerns with
                                                >other industry Car Service people. I can't recall any of the discussions I
                                                >had at the time, but believe we had no real problems because we were a
                                                >"real" railroad and of course had an outlet to the CN for papare loading.
                                                >When we got the "Buncher " cars (600400 et.seq.)we didn't need them. There
                                                >was a while the CN wouldn't take our cars as business declined and they had
                                                >an over supply. That sounds a little ridiculous that CN would have an
                                                >oversupply but this was it existed for a short while. I recall talking
                                                >with
                                                >them on that - kind of wish I had kept a diary now. Been a lot of trains
                                                >passed by and I can't recall all the engine numbers, dates, places or
                                                >times.
                                                >
                                                >The NSL needed places to put their cars once no one would load them. They
                                                >had to pay not only to have someone store them but also they had to pay the
                                                >class ones to get them there. What we received I do not know. VTR fell
                                                >into this too. We hadtheir surplus cars stored on line for a while too.
                                                >Like I said - the glut was an unintended consequence of a very liberal idea
                                                >re funding to get needed XM box cars. As I said inanother missive at
                                                >thistime TOFC and COFC was absorbing much of the XM market.
                                                >
                                                >Check tht aarticle on NRUC from Google. The guys who ran that company were
                                                >folks who made their money making deals with other peoples money. Good
                                                >work
                                                >if you can get it. WHther it's the over hyped stock market, freight car
                                                >market or Real Estate investment trust, the adage of is it sounds to good
                                                >to be true (sound) it probably is.
                                                >
                                                >Gotta go or 447 won't leave on time.
                                                >
                                                >PKL
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > >From: Gino's Railpage <fjgrailroad@...>
                                                > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                                > >Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 08:05:21 -0500
                                                > >
                                                > >So then why would the NSL have the cars all over if they were paying to
                                                > >keep
                                                > >them on someone's line? How did the NSL make money if product wasn't
                                                >being
                                                > >shipped in their cars?
                                                > > Gino
                                                > >
                                                > > On 11/4/05, choochoo1802@... <choochoo1802@...> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I remember some one saying we got $1.50 per NSL car per day for
                                                >storage.
                                                > > > Mark
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Visit The FJ&G Store At http://www.cafepress.com/fjgrr
                                                > > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                                                > > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                                                > > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York
                                                >State
                                                > > > at
                                                > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > SPONSORED LINKS
                                                > > > Business finance
                                                > >course<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+course&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=JpO2n_TPM_hCfATLtBqWFQ>
                                                > >Business
                                                > > > finance
                                                > >consultant<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+consultant&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=aryVRG_eQwFA_Zj4WpqS0w>
                                                > >Business
                                                > > > finance
                                                > >magazine<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+magazine&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=loX29H2Vpoabg0kdSat1kg>
                                                > > Business
                                                > > > finance
                                                > >schools<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=8xSySceZzPwIai3yZxztbA>
                                                > >Business
                                                > > > finance
                                                > >schools<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+schools&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=8xSySceZzPwIai3yZxztbA>
                                                > >Business
                                                > > > finance small
                                                > >software<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Business+finance+small+software&w1=Business+finance+course&w2=Business+finance+consultant&w3=Business+finance+magazine&w4=Business+finance+schools&w5=Business+finance+schools&w6=Business+finance+small+software&c=6&s=190&.sig=SFQ_EiyusJ0ZqFq8oP_fNA>
                                                > > > ------------------------------
                                                > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > - Visit your group
                                                > >"FJGRailroad<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad>"
                                                > > > on the web.
                                                > > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > > >
                                                > >FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                                                > > > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                                                > > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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                                                > >--
                                                > >www.ginosrailpage.com <http://www.ginosrailpage.com>
                                                > >www.fjgrr.org <http://www.fjgrr.org>
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Dave Brennan
                                                Glad you noticed. But I don t think even the newspapers have proof readers anymore. paul larner wrote:Boy typing fast on a laptop sure
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                                              Glad you noticed.  But I don't think even the newspapers have proof readers anymore.

                                                  paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                                                  Boy typing fast on a laptop sure leaves a lot to e edited.


                                                  >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com


                                                  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                • paul larner
                                                  Isn t that the truth. It s obvious they are using their computers and going straight tot he print when phrases are dropped or cut in half; but the worst is
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Nov 4, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Isn't that the truth. It's obvious they are using their computers and going
                                                    straight tot he print when phrases are dropped or cut in half; but the worst
                                                    is the lack of a spell check.

                                                    These laptop keys are too close for my fat fingers.

                                                    PKL


                                                    >From: Dave Brennan <oldcrab62@...>
                                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                                    >Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 21:11:08 -0800 (PST)
                                                    >
                                                    > Glad you noticed. But I don't think even the newspapers have
                                                    >proof readers anymore.
                                                    >
                                                    >paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:Boy typing fast on a laptop sure
                                                    >leaves a lot to e edited.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                                                    > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >---------------------------------
                                                    > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
                                                  • Dicarlo, Gino
                                                    My favorite is the Saratogian that will have a story end on one page, say continued On another and it s not there. Their slogan should be, we give you HALF
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Nov 5, 2005
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                                                      Message

                                                      My favorite is the Saratogian that will have a story end on one page, say continued
                                                      On another and it's not there.  Their slogan should be, "we give you HALF the story!"

                                                      Gino

                                                      -----Original Message-----
                                                      From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [
                                                      mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of paul larner
                                                      Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:21 AM
                                                      To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] NSL


                                                      Isn't that the truth.  It's obvious they are using their computers and going
                                                      straight tot he print when phrases are dropped or cut in half; but the worst
                                                      is the lack of a spell check.

                                                      These laptop keys are too close for my fat fingers.

                                                      PKL

                                                    • paul larner
                                                      Actually very much like that. Hardly worth the $1.50 per day if you had to do it a lot. PKL
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Nov 5, 2005
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Actually very much like that. Hardly worth the $1.50 per day if you had to
                                                        do it a lot.

                                                        PKL


                                                        >From: choochoo1802@...
                                                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                                        >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] NSL
                                                        >Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 21:51:01 -0500
                                                        >
                                                        >Nothing like pulling out 60 cars out of a long track so we could spot a
                                                        >car for the Leader Herald on Harrison St. Three hour move to spot one
                                                        >car. Mark
                                                        >
                                                      • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                                                        t wasnt that too much of a problem,Leader Herald didnt get too many cars. The biggest problem was moving them in Milford on the CACV.Mark
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Nov 5, 2005
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          t wasnt that too much of a problem,Leader Herald didnt get too many
                                                          cars. The biggest problem was moving them in Milford on the CACV.Mark
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