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RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?

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  • paul larner
    Jerry, I m inclined to say that locomotive didn t work on the FJ&G if it ever went there. That engine may be a McQueen. it s inside connected pre dating
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 7 8:35 PM
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      Jerry, I'm inclined to say that locomotive didn't "work" on the FJ&G if it
      ever went there. That engine may be a McQueen. it's inside connected pre
      dating the Civil war by a couple years and then a couple more. I started
      when I saw the tankbecause I have not yet found pictures of the Baldwin
      "dummy" purchased new in 1874, but then saw the six drivers. It a nice photo
      but unlikely an engine ever taken to Gloversville. However, we still cannot
      identify the engine from which that shop boiler was taken.

      PKL

      >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
      >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
      >
      >Paul/Joe,
      >Thanks for the info. Picture of engine attached.
      >Jerry
      >
      >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
      >
      > > This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5
      > > while being delivered. I
      > > believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at least
      > > the newspaper accounts of
      > > the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a ten
      > > wheeler and the fifth
      > > engine known to have been actually owned by the
      > > road. My thinking is that
      > > Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the
      > > company shops. Match the
      > > picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab,
      > > drivers or domes match; Putman
      > > rebuilt everything that needed to be done but more
      > > often his rebuilding
      > > involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and smoke
      > > stacks (front end work).
      > >
      > > While there is reference to a sixth locomotive owned
      > > by the road, if not a
      > > typo, this may be a reference counting a second hand
      > > construction locomotive
      > > whose boiler provided the power and heat supply for
      > > the first machine shop
      > > and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive"
      > > quote and on the Sanborn
      > > map done of the shop area immediately after the big
      > > fire. An "old
      > > locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one of
      > > the known "owned"
      > > locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No. 1),
      > > Cayadutta, (No. 2), W. J.
      > > Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine). When
      > > the fire occurred
      > > Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines but
      > > there is not record
      > > either from the commissioner reports or the
      > > newspapers of acquisitions
      > > between 1876 and 1887.
      > >
      > > What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is that
      > > the Gloversville papers
      > > have not been found for the entire year and the
      > > Johnstown paper is still
      > > (five years now) at the State Library waiting, or
      > > maybe I'm the only one
      > > waiting, to be put on microfilm.
      > >
      > > Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and
      > > later became a partner in
      > > what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I
      > > think McQueen came from the
      > > Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for the
      > > original works at
      > > Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an opportune
      > > time then it became the
      > > Ellis Locomotive Works.
      > >
      > > Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady
      > > Locomotive Works if not the one
      > > with the most money invested. For the whole story
      > > of Schenectady and its
      > > locomotive works and the men involved go to
      > > Schenectadyhistory.org where you
      > > will find a link to the railroad history or do a
      > > google search "McQueen
      > > Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady link.
      > >
      > > PKL
      > >
      > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski"
      > > <riverlinejoe@...>
      > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
      > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
      > > >
      > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate Dave's
      > > book right now) the
      > > >FJ&G
      > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit the
      > > time frame:
      > > >
      > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
      > > >
      > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen other
      > > than Steve)
      > > >
      > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that they
      > > were being deliverd and
      > > >came that route......
      > > >
      > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
      > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
      > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
      > > > >
      > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are
      > > supposedly all FJ&G. Six of
      > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously correctly
      > > identified. The
      > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0 identified
      > > as having been taken
      > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own a
      > > 4-6-0? And if so, any
      > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at that
      > > time? There is no
      > > > >identification on the engine that I can see in
      > > the picture.
      > > > >Thanks,
      > > > >Jerry
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >__________________________________________________
      >Do You Yahoo!?
      >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
      >http://mail.yahoo.com
      ><< 460.jpg >>
    • Gerald Snyder
      At least the trolley shots are FJ&G! Thanks, Jerry ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 7 8:38 PM
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        At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
        Thanks,
        Jerry

        --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:

        > Jerry, I'm inclined to say that locomotive didn't
        > "work" on the FJ&G if it
        > ever went there. That engine may be a McQueen.
        > it's inside connected pre
        > dating the Civil war by a couple years and then a
        > couple more. I started
        > when I saw the tankbecause I have not yet found
        > pictures of the Baldwin
        > "dummy" purchased new in 1874, but then saw the six
        > drivers. It a nice photo
        > but unlikely an engine ever taken to Gloversville.
        > However, we still cannot
        > identify the engine from which that shop boiler was
        > taken.
        >
        > PKL
        >
        > >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
        > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
        > >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
        > >
        > >Paul/Joe,
        > >Thanks for the info. Picture of engine attached.
        > >Jerry
        > >
        > >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5
        > > > while being delivered. I
        > > > believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at
        > least
        > > > the newspaper accounts of
        > > > the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a
        > ten
        > > > wheeler and the fifth
        > > > engine known to have been actually owned by the
        > > > road. My thinking is that
        > > > Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the
        > > > company shops. Match the
        > > > picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab,
        > > > drivers or domes match; Putman
        > > > rebuilt everything that needed to be done but
        > more
        > > > often his rebuilding
        > > > involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and
        > smoke
        > > > stacks (front end work).
        > > >
        > > > While there is reference to a sixth locomotive
        > owned
        > > > by the road, if not a
        > > > typo, this may be a reference counting a second
        > hand
        > > > construction locomotive
        > > > whose boiler provided the power and heat supply
        > for
        > > > the first machine shop
        > > > and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive"
        > > > quote and on the Sanborn
        > > > map done of the shop area immediately after the
        > big
        > > > fire. An "old
        > > > locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one
        > of
        > > > the known "owned"
        > > > locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No.
        > 1),
        > > > Cayadutta, (No. 2), W. J.
        > > > Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine).
        > When
        > > > the fire occurred
        > > > Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines
        > but
        > > > there is not record
        > > > either from the commissioner reports or the
        > > > newspapers of acquisitions
        > > > between 1876 and 1887.
        > > >
        > > > What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is
        > that
        > > > the Gloversville papers
        > > > have not been found for the entire year and the
        > > > Johnstown paper is still
        > > > (five years now) at the State Library waiting,
        > or
        > > > maybe I'm the only one
        > > > waiting, to be put on microfilm.
        > > >
        > > > Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and
        > > > later became a partner in
        > > > what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I
        > > > think McQueen came from the
        > > > Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for
        > the
        > > > original works at
        > > > Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an
        > opportune
        > > > time then it became the
        > > > Ellis Locomotive Works.
        > > >
        > > > Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady
        > > > Locomotive Works if not the one
        > > > with the most money invested. For the whole
        > story
        > > > of Schenectady and its
        > > > locomotive works and the men involved go to
        > > > Schenectadyhistory.org where you
        > > > will find a link to the railroad history or do a
        > > > google search "McQueen
        > > > Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady
        > link.
        > > >
        > > > PKL
        > > >
        > > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski"
        > > > <riverlinejoe@...>
        > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
        > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
        > > > >
        > > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate
        > Dave's
        > > > book right now) the
        > > > >FJ&G
        > > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit
        > the
        > > > time frame:
        > > > >
        > > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
        > > > >
        > > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen
        > other
        > > > than Steve)
        > > > >
        > > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that
        > they
        > > > were being deliverd and
        > > > >came that route......
        > > > >
        > > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
        > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
        > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
        > > > > >
        > > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are
        > > > supposedly all FJ&G. Six of
        > > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously
        > correctly
        > > > identified. The
        > > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0
        > identified
        > > > as having been taken
        > > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own
        > a
        > > > 4-6-0? And if so, any
        > > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at
        > that
        > > > time? There is no
        > > > > >identification on the engine that I can see
        > in
        > > > the picture.
        > > > > >Thanks,
        > > > > >Jerry
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >__________________________________________________
        > >Do You Yahoo!?
        > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
        > protection around
        > >http://mail.yahoo.com
        > ><< 460.jpg >>
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
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      • paul larner
        I still wouldn t rule that photo out; may have been used during construction. When Lawton Caten came to the FJ&G in 1869 to complete the road, he came from
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 7 8:56 PM
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          I still wouldn't rule that photo out; may have been used during
          construction. When Lawton Caten came to the FJ&G in 1869 to complete the
          road, he came from that area. He was born and educated in the Syracuse area
          but his rr work took him to that area and it is very likely he brought the
          thing with him or purchased it from a known source. There is no record of
          any engine on the property prior to the Pioneer, but I have a hard time
          accepting that all the work laying rail was done without a locomotive of
          some sort.

          There is a photo of a 110 on the FJ&G allegedly a borrowed NYC engine, and
          also a picture of a Rogers' engine alllegedly on the property. The Rogers
          engine could have been one that Putman put trough the shop for NYE&P CO, a
          locomotive broker. I would really enjoy finding a picture of a NYC excursion
          train on the FJ&G at one of the identifiable stations of the Park. They
          came up regularly in the 1890's. NYC coaches were regularly borrowed for
          the large excursions unless the NYC was short. At the time of teh Buffalo
          exposition the NYC was actually using FJ&G coaches in their mainline trains
          between Albany and Buffalo.

          PKL

          >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
          >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:38:18 -0700 (PDT)
          >
          >At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
          >Thanks,
          >Jerry
          >
          >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Jerry, I'm inclined to say that locomotive didn't
          > > "work" on the FJ&G if it
          > > ever went there. That engine may be a McQueen.
          > > it's inside connected pre
          > > dating the Civil war by a couple years and then a
          > > couple more. I started
          > > when I saw the tankbecause I have not yet found
          > > pictures of the Baldwin
          > > "dummy" purchased new in 1874, but then saw the six
          > > drivers. It a nice photo
          > > but unlikely an engine ever taken to Gloversville.
          > > However, we still cannot
          > > identify the engine from which that shop boiler was
          > > taken.
          > >
          > > PKL
          > >
          > > >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
          > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
          > > >Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:17:46 -0700 (PDT)
          > > >
          > > >Paul/Joe,
          > > >Thanks for the info. Picture of engine attached.
          > > >Jerry
          > > >
          > > >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5
          > > > > while being delivered. I
          > > > > believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at
          > > least
          > > > > the newspaper accounts of
          > > > > the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a
          > > ten
          > > > > wheeler and the fifth
          > > > > engine known to have been actually owned by the
          > > > > road. My thinking is that
          > > > > Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the
          > > > > company shops. Match the
          > > > > picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab,
          > > > > drivers or domes match; Putman
          > > > > rebuilt everything that needed to be done but
          > > more
          > > > > often his rebuilding
          > > > > involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and
          > > smoke
          > > > > stacks (front end work).
          > > > >
          > > > > While there is reference to a sixth locomotive
          > > owned
          > > > > by the road, if not a
          > > > > typo, this may be a reference counting a second
          > > hand
          > > > > construction locomotive
          > > > > whose boiler provided the power and heat supply
          > > for
          > > > > the first machine shop
          > > > > and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive"
          > > > > quote and on the Sanborn
          > > > > map done of the shop area immediately after the
          > > big
          > > > > fire. An "old
          > > > > locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one
          > > of
          > > > > the known "owned"
          > > > > locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No.
          > > 1),
          > > > > Cayadutta, (No. 2), W. J.
          > > > > Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine).
          > > When
          > > > > the fire occurred
          > > > > Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines
          > > but
          > > > > there is not record
          > > > > either from the commissioner reports or the
          > > > > newspapers of acquisitions
          > > > > between 1876 and 1887.
          > > > >
          > > > > What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is
          > > that
          > > > > the Gloversville papers
          > > > > have not been found for the entire year and the
          > > > > Johnstown paper is still
          > > > > (five years now) at the State Library waiting,
          > > or
          > > > > maybe I'm the only one
          > > > > waiting, to be put on microfilm.
          > > > >
          > > > > Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and
          > > > > later became a partner in
          > > > > what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I
          > > > > think McQueen came from the
          > > > > Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for
          > > the
          > > > > original works at
          > > > > Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an
          > > opportune
          > > > > time then it became the
          > > > > Ellis Locomotive Works.
          > > > >
          > > > > Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady
          > > > > Locomotive Works if not the one
          > > > > with the most money invested. For the whole
          > > story
          > > > > of Schenectady and its
          > > > > locomotive works and the men involved go to
          > > > > Schenectadyhistory.org where you
          > > > > will find a link to the railroad history or do a
          > > > > google search "McQueen
          > > > > Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady
          > > link.
          > > > >
          > > > > PKL
          > > > >
          > > > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski"
          > > > > <riverlinejoe@...>
          > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
          > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
          > > > > >
          > > > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate
          > > Dave's
          > > > > book right now) the
          > > > > >FJ&G
          > > > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit
          > > the
          > > > > time frame:
          > > > > >
          > > > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
          > > > > >
          > > > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen
          > > other
          > > > > than Steve)
          > > > > >
          > > > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that
          > > they
          > > > > were being deliverd and
          > > > > >came that route......
          > > > > >
          > > > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
          > > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
          > > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are
          > > > > supposedly all FJ&G. Six of
          > > > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously
          > > correctly
          > > > > identified. The
          > > > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0
          > > identified
          > > > > as having been taken
          > > > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own
          > > a
          > > > > 4-6-0? And if so, any
          > > > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at
          > > that
          > > > > time? There is no
          > > > > > >identification on the engine that I can see
          > > in
          > > > > the picture.
          > > > > > >Thanks,
          > > > > > >Jerry
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >__________________________________________________
          > > >Do You Yahoo!?
          > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
          > > protection around
          > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
          > > ><< 460.jpg >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >__________________________________________________
          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          >http://mail.yahoo.com
        • joseph Klapkowski
          So Paul, you are saying that the RR Comm reports do not show anything about engines being acquired between 76 and 87?
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 7 9:03 PM
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            So Paul, you are saying that the RR Comm reports do not show anything about
            engines being acquired between '76 and '87?

            >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
            >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:09:43 -0400
            >
            >This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5 while being delivered. I
            >believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at least the newspaper accounts
            >of
            >the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a ten wheeler and the fifth
            >engine known to have been actually owned by the road. My thinking is that
            >Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the company shops. Match the
            >picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab, drivers or domes match;
            >Putman
            >rebuilt everything that needed to be done but more often his rebuilding
            >involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and smoke stacks (front end
            >work).
            >
            >While there is reference to a sixth locomotive owned by the road, if not a
            >typo, this may be a reference counting a second hand construction
            >locomotive
            >whose boiler provided the power and heat supply for the first machine shop
            >and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive" quote and on the Sanborn
            >map done of the shop area immediately after the big fire. An "old
            >locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one of the known "owned"
            >locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No. 1), Cayadutta, (No. 2), W.
            >J.
            >Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine). When the fire occurred
            >Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines but there is not record
            >either from the commissioner reports or the newspapers of acquisitions
            >between 1876 and 1887.
            >
            >What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is that the Gloversville papers
            >have not been found for the entire year and the Johnstown paper is still
            >(five years now) at the State Library waiting, or maybe I'm the only one
            >waiting, to be put on microfilm.
            >
            >Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and later became a partner in
            >what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I think McQueen came from
            >the
            >Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for the original works at
            >Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an opportune time then it became the
            >Ellis Locomotive Works.
            >
            >Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady Locomotive Works if not the one
            >with the most money invested. For the whole story of Schenectady and its
            >locomotive works and the men involved go to Schenectadyhistory.org where
            >you
            >will find a link to the railroad history or do a google search "McQueen
            >Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady link.
            >
            >PKL
            >
            > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
            > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
            > >
            > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate Dave's book right now) the
            > >FJ&G
            > >owned the following locomotives that would fit the time frame:
            > >
            > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
            > >
            > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen other than Steve)
            > >
            > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that they were being deliverd
            >and
            > >came that route......
            > >
            > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
            > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
            > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
            > > >
            > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are supposedly all FJ&G. Six of
            > > >the group are trolleys and obviously correctly identified. The
            > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0 identified as having been taken
            > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own a 4-6-0? And if so, any
            > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at that time? There is no
            > > >identification on the engine that I can see in the picture.
            > > >Thanks,
            > > >Jerry
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
          • Dicarlo, Gino
            Let s see those Jerry! gino ... From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 7 9:26 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Let's see those Jerry!

              gino

              -----Original Message-----
              From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
              Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?


              At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
              Thanks,
              Jerry

              --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
            • paul larner
              Between the Commissioner reports and the newspaper accounts there is no indication that the company acquired any new locomotives between 1876 and 1887. In the
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 7 9:34 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Between the Commissioner reports and the newspaper accounts there is no
                indication that the company acquired any new locomotives between 1876 and
                1887. In the commissioner reports you can find the number of freight and
                passenger locomotives, generally a distinction between a six drivered and
                four drivered respectively, and the capital acount amount.Both Dave's and
                Gordon's rosters are incomplete and in some measure incorrect. Locomotives
                were acquired in 1870 (Pioneer and Cayadutta, both 4-4-0), 1871 (Willard J.
                heacock 4-6-0), 1874 (No. 4, the Dummy 2-4-2T), 1876 (No. 5 described as a
                4-6-0 when delivered). The next acquisitions were three second hand
                locomotives acquired for a Pennsylvania road in September 1887. In 1888 the
                company acquired four more second hand locomotives. After that we get into
                the ara wher records are better available starting with purchased from
                Schenectady, No. 7, 10, Oregon No 8 (1893), 3 (1894), 6 (1899), 9, 12
                (1900), 8 (1901). The Mamie was a Cayadutta engine and maintained for
                several years likely using the No. 11 though it was never owned by the FJ&G.

                It took a lot of digging to understand the numbering logic between 1892 and
                1901. Those PA. engines were numberd up to 9, however, except for 1,4,6,7
                which were put into service for relatively long periods of time there are no
                pictures (so far), only newspaper references. Some of these remained in the
                account of the Machine Shop company, a private company owned by the
                railroad's directors, being leased to the railroad as needed. They seem to
                have been bought on spec to take advantage of Putman's abilities to rebuild
                locomotives. Those not needed were resold and eventually led to the
                contract with NYP&E Co, for whom the company rebuilt around 25 locomotives.
                During the period of the Foundry and Machine Company, Putman and his shop
                employees were not on the railroad payroll, but the GF&M Co.

                There is a reference to another tank engine in 1877, called the "Pony" vis a
                vis the "Dummy." Because the crisis was resolved almost as soon as the
                engine appeared on the property it must have been sold or scrapped. There
                is nothing known other than it was there and had to be rebuilt (Maybe this
                is the engine in Jerry's picture). It was not capitalized.

                Someday I'll get this book finished where you can read the whole story.
                $$$$

                Paul




                >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                >Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:03:26 +0000
                >
                >So Paul, you are saying that the RR Comm reports do not show anything about
                >engines being acquired between '76 and '87?
                >
                > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:09:43 -0400
                > >
                > >This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5 while being delivered. I
                > >believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at least the newspaper accounts
                > >of
                > >the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a ten wheeler and the fifth
                > >engine known to have been actually owned by the road. My thinking is
                >that
                > >Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the company shops. Match the
                > >picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab, drivers or domes match;
                > >Putman
                > >rebuilt everything that needed to be done but more often his rebuilding
                > >involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and smoke stacks (front end
                > >work).
                > >
                > >While there is reference to a sixth locomotive owned by the road, if not
                >a
                > >typo, this may be a reference counting a second hand construction
                > >locomotive
                > >whose boiler provided the power and heat supply for the first machine
                >shop
                > >and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive" quote and on the Sanborn
                > >map done of the shop area immediately after the big fire. An "old
                > >locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one of the known "owned"
                > >locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No. 1), Cayadutta, (No. 2), W.
                > >J.
                > >Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine). When the fire occurred
                > >Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines but there is not record
                > >either from the commissioner reports or the newspapers of acquisitions
                > >between 1876 and 1887.
                > >
                > >What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is that the Gloversville
                >papers
                > >have not been found for the entire year and the Johnstown paper is still
                > >(five years now) at the State Library waiting, or maybe I'm the only one
                > >waiting, to be put on microfilm.
                > >
                > >Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and later became a partner in
                > >what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I think McQueen came from
                > >the
                > >Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for the original works at
                > >Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an opportune time then it became
                >the
                > >Ellis Locomotive Works.
                > >
                > >Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady Locomotive Works if not the
                >one
                > >with the most money invested. For the whole story of Schenectady and its
                > >locomotive works and the men involved go to Schenectadyhistory.org where
                > >you
                > >will find a link to the railroad history or do a google search "McQueen
                > >Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady link.
                > >
                > >PKL
                > >
                > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
                > > >
                > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate Dave's book right now) the
                > > >FJ&G
                > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit the time frame:
                > > >
                > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
                > > >
                > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen other than Steve)
                > > >
                > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that they were being deliverd
                > >and
                > > >came that route......
                > > >
                > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
                > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
                > > > >
                > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are supposedly all FJ&G. Six
                >of
                > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously correctly identified. The
                > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0 identified as having been taken
                > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own a 4-6-0? And if so, any
                > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at that time? There is no
                > > > >identification on the engine that I can see in the picture.
                > > > >Thanks,
                > > > >Jerry
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
              • Gerald Snyder
                Gino, How do you want them? Jerry ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 8 7:56 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Gino,
                  How do you want them?
                  Jerry

                  --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:

                  > Let's see those Jerry!
                  >
                  > gino
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                  > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                  > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                  > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                  >
                  >
                  > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                  > Thanks,
                  > Jerry
                  >
                  > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
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                • Gerald Snyder
                  Gentlemen, Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of local postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 8 8:45 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Gentlemen,
                    Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of
                    "local" postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can
                    anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so, where the
                    shot may have been taken? I also did a high res scan
                    but blowing it up doesn't show me any detail or
                    landmarks that I can identify.
                    Thanks,
                    Jerry

                    --- Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:

                    > Gino,
                    > How do you want them?
                    > Jerry
                    >
                    > --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Let's see those Jerry!
                    > >
                    > > gino
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                    > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                    > > Thanks,
                    > > Jerry
                    > >
                    > > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                    > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                    > protection around
                    > http://mail.yahoo.com
                    >




                    __________________________________
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                    http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
                  • paul larner
                    It appears to be looking in a generally north direction at the high bridge. The FJ&G ran their freight locomotives backwards to Fonda, the creek is where it
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 8 9:46 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      It appears to be looking in a generally north direction at the high bridge.
                      The FJ&G ran their freight locomotives backwards to Fonda, the creek is
                      where it should be, the road and isn't that a bridge above the train. The
                      track geometry is correct for the area too. This is one I'd like a hi res
                      scan of.

                      PKL

                      >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE: FJG?
                      >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
                      >
                      >Gentlemen,
                      >Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of
                      >"local" postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can
                      >anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so, where the
                      >shot may have been taken? I also did a high res scan
                      >but blowing it up doesn't show me any detail or
                      >landmarks that I can identify.
                      >Thanks,
                      >Jerry
                      >
                      >--- Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Gino,
                      > > How do you want them?
                      > > Jerry
                      > >
                      > > --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Let's see those Jerry!
                      > > >
                      > > > gino
                      > > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                      > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                      > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                      > > > Thanks,
                      > > > Jerry
                      > > >
                      > > > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > __________________________________________________
                      > > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                      > > protection around
                      > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >__________________________________
                      >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                      >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
                      >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
                      ><< Mystery.jpg >>
                    • paul larner
                      The more I look at it the more certain I am that it is the high bridge. Notivce the road to the right proceeding up the hill across the photo and also you can
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 8 9:59 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The more I look at it the more certain I am that it is the high bridge.
                        Notivce the road to the right proceeding up the hill across the photo and
                        also you can see the Sammonsville road proceeding toward teh location of the
                        bridge and the creek. They all fit the area.

                        PKL

                        >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE: FJG?
                        >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
                        >
                        >Gentlemen,
                        >Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of
                        >"local" postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can
                        >anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so, where the
                        >shot may have been taken? I also did a high res scan
                        >but blowing it up doesn't show me any detail or
                        >landmarks that I can identify.
                        >Thanks,
                        >Jerry
                        >
                        >--- Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Gino,
                        > > How do you want them?
                        > > Jerry
                        > >
                        > > --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Let's see those Jerry!
                        > > >
                        > > > gino
                        > > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                        > > > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                        > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                        > > > Thanks,
                        > > > Jerry
                        > > >
                        > > > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                        > > protection around
                        > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >__________________________________
                        >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                        >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
                        >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
                        ><< Mystery.jpg >>
                      • paul larner
                        Also the tender makes it appear to be locomotive No. 12 putting the photo between 1900 and 1923 PKL
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 8 10:09 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Also the tender makes it appear to be locomotive No. 12 putting the photo
                          between 1900 and 1923

                          PKL

                          >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE: FJG?
                          >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
                          >
                          >Gentlemen,
                          >Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of
                          >"local" postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can
                          >anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so, where the
                          >shot may have been taken? I also did a high res scan
                          >but blowing it up doesn't show me any detail or
                          >landmarks that I can identify.
                          >Thanks,
                          >Jerry
                          >
                          >--- Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Gino,
                          > > How do you want them?
                          > > Jerry
                          > >
                          > > --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Let's see those Jerry!
                          > > >
                          > > > gino
                          > > >
                          > > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                          > > > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                          > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                          > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > Jerry
                          > > >
                          > > > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > __________________________________________________
                          > > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                          > > protection around
                          > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >__________________________________
                          >Yahoo! Mail Mobile
                          >Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
                          >http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
                          ><< Mystery.jpg >>
                        • joseph Klapkowski
                          I missed something. What was the GF&M and the NYP&E?
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 11 10:10 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I missed something. What was the GF&M and the NYP&E?

                            >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                            >Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:34:04 -0400
                            >
                            >Between the Commissioner reports and the newspaper accounts there is no
                            >indication that the company acquired any new locomotives between 1876 and
                            >1887. In the commissioner reports you can find the number of freight and
                            >passenger locomotives, generally a distinction between a six drivered and
                            >four drivered respectively, and the capital acount amount.Both Dave's and
                            >Gordon's rosters are incomplete and in some measure incorrect. Locomotives
                            >were acquired in 1870 (Pioneer and Cayadutta, both 4-4-0), 1871 (Willard J.
                            >heacock 4-6-0), 1874 (No. 4, the Dummy 2-4-2T), 1876 (No. 5 described as a
                            >4-6-0 when delivered). The next acquisitions were three second hand
                            >locomotives acquired for a Pennsylvania road in September 1887. In 1888
                            >the
                            >company acquired four more second hand locomotives. After that we get into
                            >the ara wher records are better available starting with purchased from
                            >Schenectady, No. 7, 10, Oregon No 8 (1893), 3 (1894), 6 (1899), 9, 12
                            >(1900), 8 (1901). The Mamie was a Cayadutta engine and maintained for
                            >several years likely using the No. 11 though it was never owned by the
                            >FJ&G.
                            >
                            >It took a lot of digging to understand the numbering logic between 1892 and
                            >1901. Those PA. engines were numberd up to 9, however, except for 1,4,6,7
                            >which were put into service for relatively long periods of time there are
                            >no
                            >pictures (so far), only newspaper references. Some of these remained in
                            >the
                            >account of the Machine Shop company, a private company owned by the
                            >railroad's directors, being leased to the railroad as needed. They seem to
                            >have been bought on spec to take advantage of Putman's abilities to rebuild
                            >locomotives. Those not needed were resold and eventually led to the
                            >contract with NYP&E Co, for whom the company rebuilt around 25 locomotives.
                            >During the period of the Foundry and Machine Company, Putman and his shop
                            >employees were not on the railroad payroll, but the GF&M Co.
                            >
                            >There is a reference to another tank engine in 1877, called the "Pony" vis
                            >a
                            >vis the "Dummy." Because the crisis was resolved almost as soon as the
                            >engine appeared on the property it must have been sold or scrapped. There
                            >is nothing known other than it was there and had to be rebuilt (Maybe this
                            >is the engine in Jerry's picture). It was not capitalized.
                            >
                            >Someday I'll get this book finished where you can read the whole story.
                            >$$$$
                            >
                            >Paul
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                            > >Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:03:26 +0000
                            > >
                            > >So Paul, you are saying that the RR Comm reports do not show anything
                            >about
                            > >engines being acquired between '76 and '87?
                            > >
                            > > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                            > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                            > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:09:43 -0400
                            > > >
                            > > >This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5 while being delivered.
                            >I
                            > > >believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at least the newspaper
                            >accounts
                            > > >of
                            > > >the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a ten wheeler and the
                            >fifth
                            > > >engine known to have been actually owned by the road. My thinking is
                            > >that
                            > > >Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the company shops. Match the
                            > > >picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab, drivers or domes match;
                            > > >Putman
                            > > >rebuilt everything that needed to be done but more often his rebuilding
                            > > >involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and smoke stacks (front end
                            > > >work).
                            > > >
                            > > >While there is reference to a sixth locomotive owned by the road, if
                            >not
                            > >a
                            > > >typo, this may be a reference counting a second hand construction
                            > > >locomotive
                            > > >whose boiler provided the power and heat supply for the first machine
                            > >shop
                            > > >and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive" quote and on the
                            >Sanborn
                            > > >map done of the shop area immediately after the big fire. An "old
                            > > >locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one of the known "owned"
                            > > >locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No. 1), Cayadutta, (No. 2),
                            >W.
                            > > >J.
                            > > >Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine). When the fire occurred
                            > > >Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines but there is not record
                            > > >either from the commissioner reports or the newspapers of acquisitions
                            > > >between 1876 and 1887.
                            > > >
                            > > >What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is that the Gloversville
                            > >papers
                            > > >have not been found for the entire year and the Johnstown paper is
                            >still
                            > > >(five years now) at the State Library waiting, or maybe I'm the only
                            >one
                            > > >waiting, to be put on microfilm.
                            > > >
                            > > >Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and later became a partner
                            >in
                            > > >what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I think McQueen came
                            >from
                            > > >the
                            > > >Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for the original works at
                            > > >Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an opportune time then it became
                            > >the
                            > > >Ellis Locomotive Works.
                            > > >
                            > > >Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady Locomotive Works if not the
                            > >one
                            > > >with the most money invested. For the whole story of Schenectady and
                            >its
                            > > >locomotive works and the men involved go to Schenectadyhistory.org
                            >where
                            > > >you
                            > > >will find a link to the railroad history or do a google search "McQueen
                            > > >Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady link.
                            > > >
                            > > >PKL
                            > > >
                            > > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                            > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                            > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
                            > > > >
                            > > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate Dave's book right now)
                            >the
                            > > > >FJ&G
                            > > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit the time frame:
                            > > > >
                            > > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
                            > > > >
                            > > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen other than Steve)
                            > > > >
                            > > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that they were being
                            >deliverd
                            > > >and
                            > > > >came that route......
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
                            > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                            > > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                            > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are supposedly all FJ&G.
                            >Six
                            > >of
                            > > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously correctly identified. The
                            > > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0 identified as having been
                            >taken
                            > > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own a 4-6-0? And if so,
                            >any
                            > > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at that time? There is no
                            > > > > >identification on the engine that I can see in the picture.
                            > > > > >Thanks,
                            > > > > >Jerry
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                          • paul larner
                            GF&M or GM&F was a company formed by the officers of the FJ&G. I do not know who the principles were of the New York Power and Equipment Co. Did some
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 11 11:07 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              GF&M or GM&F was a company formed by the officers of the FJ&G. I do not
                              know who the principles were of the New York Power and Equipment Co. Did
                              some searching at the Business library on Madison Ave at 34th but couldn't
                              find the company. FJ&G rebuilt 25 or more locomotives on their account in
                              the early nineties. Before that GF&M were doing it for themselves. Don't
                              recall, if I ever knew, who brokered the second hand locomotives to the FJ&G
                              in '87 and '88. Could have been NYP&E. They came to examine Putman's work
                              before agreeing to send work to the Gloversville shop. The rebuildings were
                              often major for which the shop was well equipped. It was when NYC took over
                              the reins that the heavy shop work went elsewhere. After the CE men took
                              control the heavy work was not reestablished in Gloversville though the shop
                              still did plenty. NYC returned the shop to the railroad's balance sheet,
                              thereby removing part of the old directors gravy train. The coal company
                              remained separate until 1901, when the CE company finally gave something
                              back to the holdouts from the original FJ&G company for they screwing the
                              brought on themselves by dealing with the NYC people. The old boys were
                              cagey but the got conned pretty good.

                              I have wondered where these extra dozen or so locomotives were kept while
                              awaiting repairs and whether or not the FJ&G used them in testing afer
                              completion. This might account for some of the various odd photos of
                              equipment alleged to be on the FJ&G.

                              PKL

                              >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                              >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              >Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 05:10:54 +0000
                              >
                              >I missed something. What was the GF&M and the NYP&E?
                              >
                              > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                              > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              > >Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 00:34:04 -0400
                              > >
                              > >Between the Commissioner reports and the newspaper accounts there is no
                              > >indication that the company acquired any new locomotives between 1876 and
                              > >1887. In the commissioner reports you can find the number of freight and
                              > >passenger locomotives, generally a distinction between a six drivered and
                              > >four drivered respectively, and the capital acount amount.Both Dave's and
                              > >Gordon's rosters are incomplete and in some measure incorrect.
                              >Locomotives
                              > >were acquired in 1870 (Pioneer and Cayadutta, both 4-4-0), 1871 (Willard
                              >J.
                              > >heacock 4-6-0), 1874 (No. 4, the Dummy 2-4-2T), 1876 (No. 5 described as
                              >a
                              > >4-6-0 when delivered). The next acquisitions were three second hand
                              > >locomotives acquired for a Pennsylvania road in September 1887. In 1888
                              > >the
                              > >company acquired four more second hand locomotives. After that we get
                              >into
                              > >the ara wher records are better available starting with purchased from
                              > >Schenectady, No. 7, 10, Oregon No 8 (1893), 3 (1894), 6 (1899), 9, 12
                              > >(1900), 8 (1901). The Mamie was a Cayadutta engine and maintained for
                              > >several years likely using the No. 11 though it was never owned by the
                              > >FJ&G.
                              > >
                              > >It took a lot of digging to understand the numbering logic between 1892
                              >and
                              > >1901. Those PA. engines were numberd up to 9, however, except for
                              >1,4,6,7
                              > >which were put into service for relatively long periods of time there are
                              > >no
                              > >pictures (so far), only newspaper references. Some of these remained in
                              > >the
                              > >account of the Machine Shop company, a private company owned by the
                              > >railroad's directors, being leased to the railroad as needed. They seem
                              >to
                              > >have been bought on spec to take advantage of Putman's abilities to
                              >rebuild
                              > >locomotives. Those not needed were resold and eventually led to the
                              > >contract with NYP&E Co, for whom the company rebuilt around 25
                              >locomotives.
                              > >During the period of the Foundry and Machine Company, Putman and his shop
                              > >employees were not on the railroad payroll, but the GF&M Co.
                              > >
                              > >There is a reference to another tank engine in 1877, called the "Pony"
                              >vis
                              > >a
                              > >vis the "Dummy." Because the crisis was resolved almost as soon as the
                              > >engine appeared on the property it must have been sold or scrapped.
                              >There
                              > >is nothing known other than it was there and had to be rebuilt (Maybe
                              >this
                              > >is the engine in Jerry's picture). It was not capitalized.
                              > >
                              > >Someday I'll get this book finished where you can read the whole story.
                              > >$$$$
                              > >
                              > >Paul
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                              > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              > > >Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:03:26 +0000
                              > > >
                              > > >So Paul, you are saying that the RR Comm reports do not show anything
                              > >about
                              > > >engines being acquired between '76 and '87?
                              > > >
                              > > > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
                              > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:09:43 -0400
                              > > > >
                              > > > >This may indeed be a picture of the first No. 5 while being
                              >delivered.
                              > >I
                              > > > >believe locomotive No. 5 came as a 4-6-0, at least the newspaper
                              > >accounts
                              > > > >of
                              > > > >the locomotive delivered January 27, 1876 was a ten wheeler and the
                              > >fifth
                              > > > >engine known to have been actually owned by the road. My thinking is
                              > > >that
                              > > > >Putman rebuilt the engine into a 2-6-0 in the company shops. Match
                              >the
                              > > > >picture to one of the No 5 to see if the cab, drivers or domes match;
                              > > > >Putman
                              > > > >rebuilt everything that needed to be done but more often his
                              >rebuilding
                              > > > >involved the smokeboxes, cylinder cradles and smoke stacks (front end
                              > > > >work).
                              > > > >
                              > > > >While there is reference to a sixth locomotive owned by the road, if
                              > >not
                              > > >a
                              > > > >typo, this may be a reference counting a second hand construction
                              > > > >locomotive
                              > > > >whose boiler provided the power and heat supply for the first machine
                              > > >shop
                              > > > >and is only referenced in the "sixth locomotive" quote and on the
                              > >Sanborn
                              > > > >map done of the shop area immediately after the big fire. An "old
                              > > > >locomotive" boiler is shown. It is not from one of the known "owned"
                              > > > >locomotives - Pioneer (David A. Wells, 1st No. 1), Cayadutta, (No.
                              >2),
                              > >W.
                              > > > >J.
                              > > > >Heacock (1st No. 3), No. 4 (the Dummy engine). When the fire
                              >occurred
                              > > > >Putman had done rebuildings of his own engines but there is not
                              >record
                              > > > >either from the commissioner reports or the newspapers of
                              >acquisitions
                              > > > >between 1876 and 1887.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >What makes certainty difficult during 1876 is that the Gloversville
                              > > >papers
                              > > > >have not been found for the entire year and the Johnstown paper is
                              > >still
                              > > > >(five years now) at the State Library waiting, or maybe I'm the only
                              > >one
                              > > > >waiting, to be put on microfilm.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >Walter McQueen was involved with John Ellis and later became a
                              >partner
                              > >in
                              > > > >what became the Schenectady Locomotive Works. I think McQueen came
                              > >from
                              > > > >the
                              > > > >Norris Brothers Works who put up the money for the original works at
                              > > > >Schenectady. Ellis bought control at an opportune time then it
                              >became
                              > > >the
                              > > > >Ellis Locomotive Works.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >Walter McQueen ws the heart of Schenectady Locomotive Works if not
                              >the
                              > > >one
                              > > > >with the most money invested. For the whole story of Schenectady and
                              > >its
                              > > > >locomotive works and the men involved go to Schenectadyhistory.org
                              > >where
                              > > > >you
                              > > > >will find a link to the railroad history or do a google search
                              >"McQueen
                              > > > >Locomotive Works" and click on the Schenectady link.
                              > > > >
                              > > > >PKL
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                              > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:57:41 +0000
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >According to Gordon & Mowers (can not locate Dave's book right now)
                              > >the
                              > > > > >FJ&G
                              > > > > >owned the following locomotives that would fit the time frame:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > ># 4 4-6-0 Cooke Works 1871
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > ># 6 McQueen no date (never heard of McQueen other than Steve)
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >The only reason to be in Elmira would be that they were being
                              > >deliverd
                              > > > >and
                              > > > > >came that route......
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > >From: "handyman756" <handyman756@...>
                              > > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                              > > > > > >Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:43:40 -0000
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >I just bought a group of 7 photos that are supposedly all FJ&G.
                              > >Six
                              > > >of
                              > > > > > >the group are trolleys and obviously correctly identified. The
                              > > > > > >remaining photo is a shot of an 4-6-0 identified as having been
                              > >taken
                              > > > > > >in Elmira NY in 1876. Did the FJ&G ever own a 4-6-0? And if so,
                              > >any
                              > > > > > >idea if/why it would have been in Elmira at that time? There is
                              >no
                              > > > > > >identification on the engine that I can see in the picture.
                              > > > > > >Thanks,
                              > > > > > >Jerry
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                            • joseph Klapkowski
                              Could tyhat be coming into Sammonsville ?
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 13 6:04 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Could tyhat be coming into Sammonsville ?

                                >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE: FJG?
                                >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
                                >
                                >Gentlemen,
                                >Another mystery to solve. This is from a group of
                                >"local" postcards (supposedly) that I acquired. Can
                                >anyone tell if this is the FJ&G, and if so, where the
                                >shot may have been taken? I also did a high res scan
                                >but blowing it up doesn't show me any detail or
                                >landmarks that I can identify.
                                >Thanks,
                                >Jerry
                                >
                                >--- Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > Gino,
                                > > How do you want them?
                                > > Jerry
                                > >
                                > > --- "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Let's see those Jerry!
                                > > >
                                > > > gino
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com]
                                > > > On Behalf Of Gerald Snyder
                                > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:38 PM
                                > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] 4-6-0 ?
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > At least the trolley shots are FJ&G!
                                > > > Thanks,
                                > > > Jerry
                                > > >
                                > > > --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                > > protection around
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                                >
                                >
                                >
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