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RE: [FJGRailroad] Chicago Line

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  • paul larner
    No, CSX is in the middle of a level three screw up. Level three is that level of managers just below the top but high enough to be insulated form the real
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 24, 2005
      No, CSX is in the middle of a level three screw up. Level three is that
      level of managers just below the top but high enough to be insulated form
      the real world. Remember we're from CSX; we know it all and we care for
      you.

      Everyone's making a lot of money, this is a good thing.

      PKL

      >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Chicago Line
      >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:22:14 -0500
      >
      >Was there a derailment on the Chicago Line in New York this week? I was
      >traveling west on the Thruway
      >This past Weds., and I must have saw 15 trains slowly moving in both
      >directions. I wish I was down at
      >Guy Park railfanning that day!
      >
      >Gino
      >
      >Gino DiCarlo
      >Imaging
      >
      > > Quad/Imaging
      > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
      > >
      >Saratoga Springs, New York
      >518-581-4276 phone
      >gino.dicarlo@...
      > > www.QG.com
      > >
    • Gino's Railpage
      What is early quits? Gino ... -- www.ginosrailpage.com www.fjgrr.com
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 25, 2005
        What is "early quits?"

        Gino

        On 4/24/05, choochoo1802@... <choochoo1802@...> wrote:
        > There was a frieght train that broke a knuckle in Syracuse,and put the
        > train in emergency.Not allowing any trains go by until it was inspected.
        > Created a turmoil,plus the Dispatcher or the DeWitt yardmaster accused
        > the engineer of doing it on purpose over the radio.DeWitt is very
        > congested lately.
        > A young 25 year old kid for the CSX from outside the area came in as
        > Terminal Manager and thought he can run the place. First thing he did
        > was to eliminate early quits,now nothing is moving in Syracuse.Mark
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Visit Gino's Railpage at
        > http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
        > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
        > http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
        > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
        > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
        > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York State at
        > http://ny.existingstations.com/
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FJGRailroad/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > FJGRailroad-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


        --
        www.ginosrailpage.com
        www.fjgrr.com
      • stevefjg30
        This is a report from the battle field we are winning this one!!!! Down with those southern !#!#!!#!!#^%^%^%&.Oh yea and it s making train crews lots of
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 26, 2005
          This is a report from the battle field we are winning this one!!!!
          Down with those southern !#!#!!#!!#^%^%^%&.Oh yea and it's making
          train crews lots of money.I wish i was.Another derailment in the yard
          last night two in three days Outlaws all over.They asked for this one
          Work by the rules or else your gone .There finding you cant work by
          the rules and run a railroad~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will never learn
          this is not Atlanta /Jacksonville or Waycross We stand up to these
          Pepole and they dont like it.TO BAD!!!!!!!!!Time to go to the battle
          field midnights are getting old Quick!!!!!

          Steve









          --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, "paul larner" <pklarner@h...>
          wrote:
          > No, CSX is in the middle of a level three screw up. Level three is
          that
          > level of managers just below the top but high enough to be
          insulated form
          > the real world. Remember we're from CSX; we know it all and we
          care for
          > you.
          >
          > Everyone's making a lot of money, this is a good thing.
          >
          > PKL
          >
          > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@q...>
          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
          > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Chicago Line
          > >Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:22:14 -0500
          > >
          > >Was there a derailment on the Chicago Line in New York this week?
          I was
          > >traveling west on the Thruway
          > >This past Weds., and I must have saw 15 trains slowly moving in
          both
          > >directions. I wish I was down at
          > >Guy Park railfanning that day!
          > >
          > >Gino
          > >
          > >Gino DiCarlo
          > >Imaging
          > >
          > > > Quad/Imaging
          > > > A Division of Quad/Graphics
          > > >
          > >Saratoga Springs, New York
          > >518-581-4276 phone
          > >gino.dicarlo@q...
          > > > www.QG.com
          > > >
        • choochoo1802@webtv.net
          Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard? I heard its a mess in Buffalo also. We have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem is that they are
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 26, 2005
            Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard? I heard its a mess in Buffalo also. We
            have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem is
            that they are not in DeWitt where they are suppose to be.They are
            scattered all over the place.Give it more time,it will start hitting the
            media. Mark
          • choochoo1802@webtv.net
            Paul- Whats it like along the Hudson? Mark
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 26, 2005
              Paul- Whats it like along the Hudson? Mark
            • choochoo1802@webtv.net
              Gino-Most crews are guaranteed 8 hours of pay for their assigned jobs.If you get your work done in less than 8 hours,its call an early quit with 8 hours
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 26, 2005
                Gino-Most crews are guaranteed 8 hours of pay for their assigned jobs.If
                you get your work done in less than 8 hours,its call an early quit with
                8 hours pay.What they are trying to do with CSX in yards,that they
                adding more work on their assigned job.Once you take away an incentive,
                progress will slow down.Mark
              • paul larner
                The Hudson doesn t handle much freight. Most traffic for the city runs on the River Line, former West Shore. The B&A was pretty good last week s trip because
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 26, 2005
                  The Hudson doesn't handle much freight. Most traffic for the city runs on
                  the River Line, former West Shore. The B&A was pretty good last week's trip
                  because everything must have been tied up west. On the Mohawk, where I've
                  made but one trip in several month, I had the best day in many months.
                  Bring it on.

                  The press doesn't give a rats ass about us. We will be presented as
                  stealing time and the majority of folks would consider us obstructionists.
                  The state doesn't really care; CSX knows they can buy about anyone in state
                  government for the right price. As an aside, in this area I have seen a few
                  cases where public employees have been prosecuted for stealing time. I
                  thought it was a little absurd, politics I'm sure, but a crime nevertheless.

                  Give CSX managers what they want - comply with all the rules even when they
                  are illogical. The best way to change a bad rule or practice is to comply.
                  Never give the impression that we are not already complying. That's suicide
                  and just asking for more attention from management and the FRA. It makes us
                  look bad., especially after a tragic incident (of which CSX has had a few
                  lately in this area). We alays copmply with the rules, even the foolish
                  ones - like calling signals over the radio. Just keep talking over the DS
                  and anyone else - it's the rule. Stop and walk through whenever the "flag"
                  isn't at his post. I know walking through seems too much like work for some
                  guys. We walked .9 of a mile at Syracuse the other day because CSX screwed
                  up the message and then didn't allow the DS discretion to correct it. The
                  culture and style of the NS management, now infiltrating CSX I hear, is not
                  conducive to good relationships between educated employees and themselves.

                  There's a better solution to the early quit issue. T&E are different because
                  they have a contract that specifies a minimun of eight once work is
                  performed. It isn't stealing if the work is done but you can't sign off at
                  11 pm if you go home at 9:30 pm. You have to sign off at 9:30. Should
                  something unfortunate happen to you between 9:30 and 11:00 you're still on
                  duty but at home, in your local tavern, or whatever. That's one problem
                  FELA. T&E get eight for the start.

                  If you're in one of the other crafts, that's a little different; surely
                  there must be something to be accomplished around your shops. Hard to get
                  sympathy from a general public that has to stay their full shift in their
                  jobs. Cultures are hard to change; doesn't mean its ethically right. If we
                  ran our own shop, how would we feel about paying eight hours for four or
                  six. Do you watch the Monster Shop or Orange County Choppers on TV? Think
                  any of those guys would last if they took early quits? Early quits is not
                  an issue to put before the public. The lip service would have you believe
                  there is nothing wrong with expecting eight hours work for eight hours pay,
                  if that the way the contract is written. Reality demontrates that even when
                  employees stay the full eight hours they actually work about six hours.

                  PKL



                  >From: choochoo1802@...
                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                  >Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:57:23 -0400
                  >
                  >Paul- Whats it like along the Hudson? Mark
                  >
                • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                  With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900 and work until 1500.We put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500. Then we have a section to fill out as
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 27, 2005
                    With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900 and work until 1500.We
                    put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500. Then we have a section
                    to fill out as worked for 6 hours,paid but not worked for 2 hours,total
                    is 8 hours. We work until management says so anyway,regardless its 6
                    hours,9 hours or 12 hours ( of which is no choice).Early quits for us is
                    seldom.We're working 10-12 hours per day.Mark
                  • paul larner
                    That s the good thing. If you show the actual hours worked then you can t be charged with stealing time. I heard a couple fellows were charged with stealing
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 27, 2005
                      That's the good thing. If you show the actual hours worked then you can't
                      be charged with stealing time. I heard a couple fellows were charged with
                      stealing time; I don't recall whether it was Selkirk or elsewhere, nor were
                      the circumstances clear. Another critical point is that managers are
                      allowing it. Once this happens it becomes part of the culture and is
                      expected. I maintain it's a good thing to have a few bones for employees.
                      Budget for them. It's a ploy for managers if done properly. The employee
                      think's he's getting away with something, a little something for nothing.
                      As a turnaround the employee is more willing to get his job done quickly
                      because he's geting a bit of gravy. A win win situation playing on human
                      nature. The danger is that once it becomes part of the culture, what
                      happens when a new manager comes in from outside.

                      If anyone ever wondered why promotions at a particular location don't come
                      from the ranks, it is to avoid these issues. Good workers get promoted then
                      are sent to other locations to do their supervision. Could breaking the
                      "culture" be the reason so many former CR managers are no longer employed at
                      CSX. (Remember UP took over SP) We went through the same process here. Took
                      steps and a couple changes at the top. I hadn't experienced this process
                      before I arrived here. I liked it. You did your job and every one got a
                      bone at the end of the tour. It was apparent in attitudes; that has
                      changed. There were more serious problems though. Auditing cash sales was
                      allowed to slip through the cracks; rules were not enforced. Most of us
                      knowing what's expected of us will comply. Forever it seems I have
                      emphasized that any rule not enforced doesn't exist. There was evidence of
                      that here. Several cases where one of us landed in trouble should properly
                      have been laid on management's attitude toward monitoring and compliance.
                      Many companies don't do a root cause analysis of their employee failures
                      because the results usually point to a manager at some level. Being on the
                      bottom level of the pyramid I can only presume other things were lax as
                      well.

                      Taking "bonuses" from employees working hard with a belief these are
                      entitlements, is difficult, though not impossible. Unless you get a gifted
                      manager with the balls to push back a bit to his manager, the process is
                      counter productive. Look at what's happening now. Even gifted managers are
                      up against a wall, too. They'd like to keep their jobs as well, so often
                      feel obligated, threatened, to push issues further than they might
                      otherwise.

                      Level Three. The board of directors expects profitability, a favorable
                      public image, and a days work for a days pay. The chairman passes the
                      message to the president who drops it on his department heads. Insulated
                      and largely isolated from the real world where the capital is produced,
                      decisions are made without a true picture of how things are. Why do you
                      suppose a company would shut down half of it's capacity and still try to run
                      a schedule as if nothing had changed? What about fleeting trains during a
                      work process? Was someone not listening or afraid to speak up? Sieg heil.

                      Cultural change is as painful corporately as it is internationally. Success
                      at every level is not to become a victim. This feeling applies to our
                      managers and to us. Our pants all go on the same way. My wife speaks to
                      more folks around the industry than I have in a number of years, she hears
                      "the railroad" is no longer a "fun" place to work. People don't like their
                      working situation anymore, at all levels. I suspect it isn't our industry
                      alone. Does it all have to do with money?

                      Basta.

                      PKL



                      >From: choochoo1802@...
                      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                      >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:58:17 -0400
                      >
                      >With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900 and work until 1500.We
                      >put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500. Then we have a section
                      >to fill out as worked for 6 hours,paid but not worked for 2 hours,total
                      >is 8 hours. We work until management says so anyway,regardless its 6
                      >hours,9 hours or 12 hours ( of which is no choice).Early quits for us is
                      >seldom.We're working 10-12 hours per day.Mark
                      >
                    • stevefjg30
                      No I m in Selkirk.Another derailment last night in the yard!!!!! Steve L ... We ... the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 27, 2005
                        No I'm in Selkirk.Another derailment last night in the yard!!!!!

                        Steve L







                        --- In FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com, choochoo1802@w... wrote:
                        > Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard? I heard its a mess in Buffalo also.
                        We
                        > have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem is
                        > that they are not in DeWitt where they are suppose to be.They are
                        > scattered all over the place.Give it more time,it will start hitting
                        the
                        > media. Mark
                      • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                        Steve-Is that hump yard still there,and if so how many humps are there? Mark
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 27, 2005
                          Steve-Is that hump yard still there,and if so how many humps are there?
                          Mark
                        • Stephen G. Myers
                          Which Steve? Steve Myers works out of Frontier yard, but is in Jacksonville Florida until Sunday. Steve s wife
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 28, 2005
                            Which Steve? Steve Myers works out of Frontier yard, but is in
                            Jacksonville Florida until Sunday.
                            Steve's wife
                            On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:56:29 -0400 choochoo1802@... writes:
                            >
                            > Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard? I heard its a mess in Buffalo
                            > also. We
                            > have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem
                            > is
                            > that they are not in DeWitt where they are suppose to be.They are
                            > scattered all over the place.Give it more time,it will start hitting
                            > the
                            > media. Mark
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                            >
                            >
                            > Visit Gino's Railpage at
                            > http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
                            > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
                            > http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
                            > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                            > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                            > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York
                            > State at
                            > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • choochoo1802@webtv.net
                            I had the two Steve s mixed up. Mark
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 28, 2005
                              I had the two Steve's mixed up. Mark
                            • Gerald Snyder
                              Unfortunately, yes, it all has to do with money. I know I used to enjoy going to work at least some days, but top management seems to have adopted the
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 28, 2005
                                Unfortunately, yes, it all has to do with money. I
                                know I used to enjoy going to work at least some days,
                                but top management seems to have adopted the
                                squeeze-all-you-can-out-of-them attitude and
                                everything has become a one way street. They
                                constantly remind you that you're being paid to do
                                your job, not put in x number of hours, so if the day
                                becomes 10 or 12 hours long because things have to get
                                done, so be it. And being on salary means overtime
                                does nothing for your take-home. Nobody remembers the
                                60 hours last week when you need an hour for the
                                doctor this week - just be sure you make it up this
                                week. And if you have to come in weekends or days
                                off, that's just part of the job - no comp time for
                                that. But the part that really bothers me is that the
                                bean counters are starting to impact our ability to do
                                the technically right thing, which is what has kept us
                                out of trouble for the last 50 years. Just look at
                                what's happened to NASA. There's some things that
                                just can't be done faster, better, and cheaper. End of
                                rant. Time to go see my son get inducted into the
                                Nation Honor Society.
                                Jerry
                                --- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:

                                > That's the good thing. If you show the actual hours
                                > worked then you can't
                                > be charged with stealing time. I heard a couple
                                > fellows were charged with
                                > stealing time; I don't recall whether it was Selkirk
                                > or elsewhere, nor were
                                > the circumstances clear. Another critical point is
                                > that managers are
                                > allowing it. Once this happens it becomes part of
                                > the culture and is
                                > expected. I maintain it's a good thing to have a
                                > few bones for employees.
                                > Budget for them. It's a ploy for managers if done
                                > properly. The employee
                                > think's he's getting away with something, a little
                                > something for nothing.
                                > As a turnaround the employee is more willing to get
                                > his job done quickly
                                > because he's geting a bit of gravy. A win win
                                > situation playing on human
                                > nature. The danger is that once it becomes part of
                                > the culture, what
                                > happens when a new manager comes in from outside.
                                >
                                > If anyone ever wondered why promotions at a
                                > particular location don't come
                                > from the ranks, it is to avoid these issues. Good
                                > workers get promoted then
                                > are sent to other locations to do their supervision.
                                > Could breaking the
                                > "culture" be the reason so many former CR managers
                                > are no longer employed at
                                > CSX. (Remember UP took over SP) We went through the
                                > same process here. Took
                                > steps and a couple changes at the top. I hadn't
                                > experienced this process
                                > before I arrived here. I liked it. You did your
                                > job and every one got a
                                > bone at the end of the tour. It was apparent in
                                > attitudes; that has
                                > changed. There were more serious problems though.
                                > Auditing cash sales was
                                > allowed to slip through the cracks; rules were not
                                > enforced. Most of us
                                > knowing what's expected of us will comply. Forever
                                > it seems I have
                                > emphasized that any rule not enforced doesn't exist.
                                > There was evidence of
                                > that here. Several cases where one of us landed in
                                > trouble should properly
                                > have been laid on management's attitude toward
                                > monitoring and compliance.
                                > Many companies don't do a root cause analysis of
                                > their employee failures
                                > because the results usually point to a manager at
                                > some level. Being on the
                                > bottom level of the pyramid I can only presume other
                                > things were lax as
                                > well.
                                >
                                > Taking "bonuses" from employees working hard with a
                                > belief these are
                                > entitlements, is difficult, though not impossible.
                                > Unless you get a gifted
                                > manager with the balls to push back a bit to his
                                > manager, the process is
                                > counter productive. Look at what's happening now.
                                > Even gifted managers are
                                > up against a wall, too. They'd like to keep their
                                > jobs as well, so often
                                > feel obligated, threatened, to push issues further
                                > than they might
                                > otherwise.
                                >
                                > Level Three. The board of directors expects
                                > profitability, a favorable
                                > public image, and a days work for a days pay. The
                                > chairman passes the
                                > message to the president who drops it on his
                                > department heads. Insulated
                                > and largely isolated from the real world where the
                                > capital is produced,
                                > decisions are made without a true picture of how
                                > things are. Why do you
                                > suppose a company would shut down half of it's
                                > capacity and still try to run
                                > a schedule as if nothing had changed? What about
                                > fleeting trains during a
                                > work process? Was someone not listening or afraid
                                > to speak up? Sieg heil.
                                >
                                > Cultural change is as painful corporately as it is
                                > internationally. Success
                                > at every level is not to become a victim. This
                                > feeling applies to our
                                > managers and to us. Our pants all go on the same
                                > way. My wife speaks to
                                > more folks around the industry than I have in a
                                > number of years, she hears
                                > "the railroad" is no longer a "fun" place to work.
                                > People don't like their
                                > working situation anymore, at all levels. I suspect
                                > it isn't our industry
                                > alone. Does it all have to do with money?
                                >
                                > Basta.
                                >
                                > PKL
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > >From: choochoo1802@...
                                > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                > >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:58:17 -0400
                                > >
                                > >With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900
                                > and work until 1500.We
                                > >put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500.
                                > Then we have a section
                                > >to fill out as worked for 6 hours,paid but not
                                > worked for 2 hours,total
                                > >is 8 hours. We work until management says so
                                > anyway,regardless its 6
                                > >hours,9 hours or 12 hours ( of which is no
                                > choice).Early quits for us is
                                > >seldom.We're working 10-12 hours per day.Mark
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >


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                              • joseph Klapkowski
                                Just because we are on the topic and somewhat off the topic....I work in a non union environment. One year just before year end, I made a lot of money for my
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 30, 2005
                                  Just because we are on the topic and somewhat off the topic....I work in a
                                  non union environment. One year just before year end, I made a lot of money
                                  for my company. One deal was me thinking and the other deal was me thinking
                                  hard. When bonus time came around I was told that I was paid to be
                                  smart.........................needless to say I left shortly
                                  thereafter..........

                                  At another employer several things went wrong. I was the mechanic that fixed
                                  what was broken. I did not break the things that were broke. After the fact
                                  the finger pointing started.............I left because it started to look
                                  like they were going to point at me even though everyone else knew it was
                                  someone else higher up in management that was at fault.........

                                  Non-union and some of you might think I am an executive but really I am the
                                  mechanic in my business.

                                  I know there are lots of injustices in evry workplace but at least you guys
                                  have rules and a union to support you. I get to work long hours whenever
                                  required and get dumped on a lot. Nobody backs me up..............sorry just
                                  wanted to say that.....now back to the topic.

                                  >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                                  >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                  >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
                                  >
                                  >Unfortunately, yes, it all has to do with money. I
                                  >know I used to enjoy going to work at least some days,
                                  >but top management seems to have adopted the
                                  >squeeze-all-you-can-out-of-them attitude and
                                  >everything has become a one way street. They
                                  >constantly remind you that you're being paid to do
                                  >your job, not put in x number of hours, so if the day
                                  >becomes 10 or 12 hours long because things have to get
                                  >done, so be it. And being on salary means overtime
                                  >does nothing for your take-home. Nobody remembers the
                                  >60 hours last week when you need an hour for the
                                  >doctor this week - just be sure you make it up this
                                  >week. And if you have to come in weekends or days
                                  >off, that's just part of the job - no comp time for
                                  >that. But the part that really bothers me is that the
                                  >bean counters are starting to impact our ability to do
                                  >the technically right thing, which is what has kept us
                                  >out of trouble for the last 50 years. Just look at
                                  >what's happened to NASA. There's some things that
                                  >just can't be done faster, better, and cheaper. End of
                                  >rant. Time to go see my son get inducted into the
                                  >Nation Honor Society.
                                  >Jerry
                                  >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > That's the good thing. If you show the actual hours
                                  > > worked then you can't
                                  > > be charged with stealing time. I heard a couple
                                  > > fellows were charged with
                                  > > stealing time; I don't recall whether it was Selkirk
                                  > > or elsewhere, nor were
                                  > > the circumstances clear. Another critical point is
                                  > > that managers are
                                  > > allowing it. Once this happens it becomes part of
                                  > > the culture and is
                                  > > expected. I maintain it's a good thing to have a
                                  > > few bones for employees.
                                  > > Budget for them. It's a ploy for managers if done
                                  > > properly. The employee
                                  > > think's he's getting away with something, a little
                                  > > something for nothing.
                                  > > As a turnaround the employee is more willing to get
                                  > > his job done quickly
                                  > > because he's geting a bit of gravy. A win win
                                  > > situation playing on human
                                  > > nature. The danger is that once it becomes part of
                                  > > the culture, what
                                  > > happens when a new manager comes in from outside.
                                  > >
                                  > > If anyone ever wondered why promotions at a
                                  > > particular location don't come
                                  > > from the ranks, it is to avoid these issues. Good
                                  > > workers get promoted then
                                  > > are sent to other locations to do their supervision.
                                  > > Could breaking the
                                  > > "culture" be the reason so many former CR managers
                                  > > are no longer employed at
                                  > > CSX. (Remember UP took over SP) We went through the
                                  > > same process here. Took
                                  > > steps and a couple changes at the top. I hadn't
                                  > > experienced this process
                                  > > before I arrived here. I liked it. You did your
                                  > > job and every one got a
                                  > > bone at the end of the tour. It was apparent in
                                  > > attitudes; that has
                                  > > changed. There were more serious problems though.
                                  > > Auditing cash sales was
                                  > > allowed to slip through the cracks; rules were not
                                  > > enforced. Most of us
                                  > > knowing what's expected of us will comply. Forever
                                  > > it seems I have
                                  > > emphasized that any rule not enforced doesn't exist.
                                  > > There was evidence of
                                  > > that here. Several cases where one of us landed in
                                  > > trouble should properly
                                  > > have been laid on management's attitude toward
                                  > > monitoring and compliance.
                                  > > Many companies don't do a root cause analysis of
                                  > > their employee failures
                                  > > because the results usually point to a manager at
                                  > > some level. Being on the
                                  > > bottom level of the pyramid I can only presume other
                                  > > things were lax as
                                  > > well.
                                  > >
                                  > > Taking "bonuses" from employees working hard with a
                                  > > belief these are
                                  > > entitlements, is difficult, though not impossible.
                                  > > Unless you get a gifted
                                  > > manager with the balls to push back a bit to his
                                  > > manager, the process is
                                  > > counter productive. Look at what's happening now.
                                  > > Even gifted managers are
                                  > > up against a wall, too. They'd like to keep their
                                  > > jobs as well, so often
                                  > > feel obligated, threatened, to push issues further
                                  > > than they might
                                  > > otherwise.
                                  > >
                                  > > Level Three. The board of directors expects
                                  > > profitability, a favorable
                                  > > public image, and a days work for a days pay. The
                                  > > chairman passes the
                                  > > message to the president who drops it on his
                                  > > department heads. Insulated
                                  > > and largely isolated from the real world where the
                                  > > capital is produced,
                                  > > decisions are made without a true picture of how
                                  > > things are. Why do you
                                  > > suppose a company would shut down half of it's
                                  > > capacity and still try to run
                                  > > a schedule as if nothing had changed? What about
                                  > > fleeting trains during a
                                  > > work process? Was someone not listening or afraid
                                  > > to speak up? Sieg heil.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cultural change is as painful corporately as it is
                                  > > internationally. Success
                                  > > at every level is not to become a victim. This
                                  > > feeling applies to our
                                  > > managers and to us. Our pants all go on the same
                                  > > way. My wife speaks to
                                  > > more folks around the industry than I have in a
                                  > > number of years, she hears
                                  > > "the railroad" is no longer a "fun" place to work.
                                  > > People don't like their
                                  > > working situation anymore, at all levels. I suspect
                                  > > it isn't our industry
                                  > > alone. Does it all have to do with money?
                                  > >
                                  > > Basta.
                                  > >
                                  > > PKL
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >From: choochoo1802@...
                                  > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                  > > >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:58:17 -0400
                                  > > >
                                  > > >With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900
                                  > > and work until 1500.We
                                  > > >put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500.
                                  > > Then we have a section
                                  > > >to fill out as worked for 6 hours,paid but not
                                  > > worked for 2 hours,total
                                  > > >is 8 hours. We work until management says so
                                  > > anyway,regardless its 6
                                  > > >hours,9 hours or 12 hours ( of which is no
                                  > > choice).Early quits for us is
                                  > > >seldom.We're working 10-12 hours per day.Mark
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >__________________________________________________
                                  >Do You Yahoo!?
                                  >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  >http://mail.yahoo.com
                                • paul larner
                                  There will be another revolution if our government doesn t figure out a new way to redistribute wealth. At some point the working class, middle class, will no
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 30, 2005
                                    There will be another revolution if our government doesn't figure out a new
                                    way to redistribute wealth. At some point the working class, middle class,
                                    will no longer take it. The Industrial Revolution is largely responsible
                                    for saving the heads of the ruling classes in western Europe and America at
                                    the turn and following into the ninteenth century. What now for us as our
                                    US industrialists and our government move our jobs to foreign countries
                                    while continuing to amass and flaunt their great wealth. What will save
                                    the US standard of living for the folks who aren't able to fill the fewer
                                    and fewer well paying jobs?

                                    It is offered we will be able to invest a portion of our social security in
                                    the stock market thereby partaking in the joy of belonging to the investing
                                    class. That paltry percentage of an already small percentage will buy a
                                    daily cup of coffee as consolation at the end of ones working career. We
                                    have IRA's and 401k's now that are far better in amount available for
                                    investment and return. Problem with a company investment plan - you are
                                    telling your employer your level of surplus income. That should not be any
                                    of his business. Today twenty or so years later the price is being paid as
                                    employers force workers to give back in terms of contributions for health
                                    care, pensions and yes, social security and RRR.

                                    Amtrak has proposed Amtrak employees only we be taken out of RRR and put in
                                    SSS and also that we be exempt from the railway labor act. Can you believe
                                    there are people here that vote Republican. They say they believe the
                                    Republicans are helping them. We are being asked to contribute to our health
                                    care while the company won't give us the number of paid sick days the other
                                    crafts receive. It's a no brainer, a win/win. I'd gladly give a $100 a
                                    month in contribution for ten days paid leave each year.

                                    Does the word scumbag come to anyone else's mind.

                                    PKL

                                    >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
                                    >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                    >Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 03:19:51 +0000
                                    >
                                    >Just because we are on the topic and somewhat off the topic....I work in a
                                    >non union environment. One year just before year end, I made a lot of money
                                    >for my company. One deal was me thinking and the other deal was me thinking
                                    >hard. When bonus time came around I was told that I was paid to be
                                    >smart.........................needless to say I left shortly
                                    >thereafter..........
                                    >
                                    >At another employer several things went wrong. I was the mechanic that
                                    >fixed
                                    >what was broken. I did not break the things that were broke. After the fact
                                    >the finger pointing started.............I left because it started to look
                                    >like they were going to point at me even though everyone else knew it was
                                    >someone else higher up in management that was at fault.........
                                    >
                                    >Non-union and some of you might think I am an executive but really I am the
                                    >mechanic in my business.
                                    >
                                    >I know there are lots of injustices in evry workplace but at least you guys
                                    >have rules and a union to support you. I get to work long hours whenever
                                    >required and get dumped on a lot. Nobody backs me up..............sorry
                                    >just
                                    >wanted to say that.....now back to the topic.
                                    >
                                    > >From: Gerald Snyder <handyman756@...>
                                    > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                    > >Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
                                    > >
                                    > >Unfortunately, yes, it all has to do with money. I
                                    > >know I used to enjoy going to work at least some days,
                                    > >but top management seems to have adopted the
                                    > >squeeze-all-you-can-out-of-them attitude and
                                    > >everything has become a one way street. They
                                    > >constantly remind you that you're being paid to do
                                    > >your job, not put in x number of hours, so if the day
                                    > >becomes 10 or 12 hours long because things have to get
                                    > >done, so be it. And being on salary means overtime
                                    > >does nothing for your take-home. Nobody remembers the
                                    > >60 hours last week when you need an hour for the
                                    > >doctor this week - just be sure you make it up this
                                    > >week. And if you have to come in weekends or days
                                    > >off, that's just part of the job - no comp time for
                                    > >that. But the part that really bothers me is that the
                                    > >bean counters are starting to impact our ability to do
                                    > >the technically right thing, which is what has kept us
                                    > >out of trouble for the last 50 years. Just look at
                                    > >what's happened to NASA. There's some things that
                                    > >just can't be done faster, better, and cheaper. End of
                                    > >rant. Time to go see my son get inducted into the
                                    > >Nation Honor Society.
                                    > >Jerry
                                    > >--- paul larner <pklarner@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > That's the good thing. If you show the actual hours
                                    > > > worked then you can't
                                    > > > be charged with stealing time. I heard a couple
                                    > > > fellows were charged with
                                    > > > stealing time; I don't recall whether it was Selkirk
                                    > > > or elsewhere, nor were
                                    > > > the circumstances clear. Another critical point is
                                    > > > that managers are
                                    > > > allowing it. Once this happens it becomes part of
                                    > > > the culture and is
                                    > > > expected. I maintain it's a good thing to have a
                                    > > > few bones for employees.
                                    > > > Budget for them. It's a ploy for managers if done
                                    > > > properly. The employee
                                    > > > think's he's getting away with something, a little
                                    > > > something for nothing.
                                    > > > As a turnaround the employee is more willing to get
                                    > > > his job done quickly
                                    > > > because he's geting a bit of gravy. A win win
                                    > > > situation playing on human
                                    > > > nature. The danger is that once it becomes part of
                                    > > > the culture, what
                                    > > > happens when a new manager comes in from outside.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If anyone ever wondered why promotions at a
                                    > > > particular location don't come
                                    > > > from the ranks, it is to avoid these issues. Good
                                    > > > workers get promoted then
                                    > > > are sent to other locations to do their supervision.
                                    > > > Could breaking the
                                    > > > "culture" be the reason so many former CR managers
                                    > > > are no longer employed at
                                    > > > CSX. (Remember UP took over SP) We went through the
                                    > > > same process here. Took
                                    > > > steps and a couple changes at the top. I hadn't
                                    > > > experienced this process
                                    > > > before I arrived here. I liked it. You did your
                                    > > > job and every one got a
                                    > > > bone at the end of the tour. It was apparent in
                                    > > > attitudes; that has
                                    > > > changed. There were more serious problems though.
                                    > > > Auditing cash sales was
                                    > > > allowed to slip through the cracks; rules were not
                                    > > > enforced. Most of us
                                    > > > knowing what's expected of us will comply. Forever
                                    > > > it seems I have
                                    > > > emphasized that any rule not enforced doesn't exist.
                                    > > > There was evidence of
                                    > > > that here. Several cases where one of us landed in
                                    > > > trouble should properly
                                    > > > have been laid on management's attitude toward
                                    > > > monitoring and compliance.
                                    > > > Many companies don't do a root cause analysis of
                                    > > > their employee failures
                                    > > > because the results usually point to a manager at
                                    > > > some level. Being on the
                                    > > > bottom level of the pyramid I can only presume other
                                    > > > things were lax as
                                    > > > well.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Taking "bonuses" from employees working hard with a
                                    > > > belief these are
                                    > > > entitlements, is difficult, though not impossible.
                                    > > > Unless you get a gifted
                                    > > > manager with the balls to push back a bit to his
                                    > > > manager, the process is
                                    > > > counter productive. Look at what's happening now.
                                    > > > Even gifted managers are
                                    > > > up against a wall, too. They'd like to keep their
                                    > > > jobs as well, so often
                                    > > > feel obligated, threatened, to push issues further
                                    > > > than they might
                                    > > > otherwise.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Level Three. The board of directors expects
                                    > > > profitability, a favorable
                                    > > > public image, and a days work for a days pay. The
                                    > > > chairman passes the
                                    > > > message to the president who drops it on his
                                    > > > department heads. Insulated
                                    > > > and largely isolated from the real world where the
                                    > > > capital is produced,
                                    > > > decisions are made without a true picture of how
                                    > > > things are. Why do you
                                    > > > suppose a company would shut down half of it's
                                    > > > capacity and still try to run
                                    > > > a schedule as if nothing had changed? What about
                                    > > > fleeting trains during a
                                    > > > work process? Was someone not listening or afraid
                                    > > > to speak up? Sieg heil.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Cultural change is as painful corporately as it is
                                    > > > internationally. Success
                                    > > > at every level is not to become a victim. This
                                    > > > feeling applies to our
                                    > > > managers and to us. Our pants all go on the same
                                    > > > way. My wife speaks to
                                    > > > more folks around the industry than I have in a
                                    > > > number of years, she hears
                                    > > > "the railroad" is no longer a "fun" place to work.
                                    > > > People don't like their
                                    > > > working situation anymore, at all levels. I suspect
                                    > > > it isn't our industry
                                    > > > alone. Does it all have to do with money?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Basta.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > PKL
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >From: choochoo1802@...
                                    > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line
                                    > > > >Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 07:58:17 -0400
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >With us its not stealing time.If we start at 0900
                                    > > > and work until 1500.We
                                    > > > >put down on our time sheet as off duty at 1500.
                                    > > > Then we have a section
                                    > > > >to fill out as worked for 6 hours,paid but not
                                    > > > worked for 2 hours,total
                                    > > > >is 8 hours. We work until management says so
                                    > > > anyway,regardless its 6
                                    > > > >hours,9 hours or 12 hours ( of which is no
                                    > > > choice).Early quits for us is
                                    > > > >seldom.We're working 10-12 hours per day.Mark
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >__________________________________________________
                                    > >Do You Yahoo!?
                                    > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    > >http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Stephen G. Myers
                                    The new management team was sent to Selkirk with a purpose. He/they are not doing it on their own. Steve
                                    Message 17 of 23 , May 1 7:40 AM
                                      The new management team was sent to Selkirk with a purpose. He/they
                                      are not doing it on their own.

                                      Steve














                                      > congested lately.
                                      > A young 25 year old kid for the CSX from outside the area came in
                                      > as
                                      > Terminal Manager and thought he can run the place. First thing he
                                      > did
                                      > was to eliminate early quits,now nothing is moving in Syracuse.Mark
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                    • Stephen G. Myers
                                      I have been in Pueblo, Selkirk, and Jacksonville for the last three weeks. We are reopening a closed yard in Buffalo. Steve
                                      Message 18 of 23 , May 1 7:44 AM
                                        I have been in Pueblo, Selkirk, and Jacksonville for the last three
                                        weeks. We are reopening a closed yard in Buffalo.

                                        Steve




                                        On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:56:29 -0400 choochoo1802@... writes:
                                        >
                                        > Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard? I heard its a mess in Buffalo
                                        > also. We
                                        > have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem
                                      • Stephen G. Myers
                                        Selkirk, NY and Frontier Yard in Buffalo are both hump yards. Steve M
                                        Message 19 of 23 , May 1 8:10 AM
                                          Selkirk, NY and Frontier Yard in Buffalo are both hump yards.

                                          Steve M











                                          On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 22:49:17 -0400 choochoo1802@... writes:
                                          >
                                          > Steve-Is that hump yard still there,and if so how many humps are
                                          > there?
                                          > Mark
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                          > --------------------~-->
                                          > What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
                                          > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
                                          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/j2LplB/TM
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Visit Gino's Railpage at
                                          > http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
                                          > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
                                          > http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
                                          > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
                                          > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
                                          > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York
                                          > State at
                                          > http://ny.existingstations.com/
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Stephen G. Myers
                                          It is all a part of the JACK WELCH school of management, screw everyone while you squeeze a buck into two. Maximize equipment utilization and reduce inventory
                                          Message 20 of 23 , May 1 8:19 AM
                                            It is all a part of the JACK WELCH school of management, screw
                                            everyone while you squeeze a buck into two. Maximize equipment
                                            utilization and reduce inventory and labor, keep the money moving,
                                            contract it all out to reduce taxes, labor costs, and retirements.

                                            Steve Myers




                                            On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Gerald Snyder
                                            <handyman756@...> writes:
                                            > Unfortunately, yes, it all has to do with money. I
                                            > know I used to enjoy going to work at least some days,
                                            > but top management seems to have adopted the
                                            > squeeze-all-you-can-out-of-them attitude and
                                            > everything has become a one way street. They
                                            > constantly remind you that you're being paid to do
                                            > your job, not put in x number of hours, so if the day
                                            > becomes 10 or 12 hours long because things have to get
                                            > done, so be it. And being on salary means overtime
                                            > does nothing for your take-home. Nobody remembers the
                                            > What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?
                                            > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
                                            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/j2LplB/TM
                                          • Dicarlo, Gino
                                            Easy to confuse you guys. You re both Steves and you both work for CSX! Gino ... From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On
                                            Message 21 of 23 , May 1 6:25 PM
                                              Message
                                              Easy to confuse you guys.  You're both Steves and you both work for CSX!
                                               
                                              Gino
                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stephen G. Myers
                                              Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:54 AM
                                              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Re: Chicago Line

                                              Which Steve? Steve Myers works out of Frontier yard, but is in
                                              Jacksonville Florida until Sunday.
                                              Steve's wife
                                              On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:56:29 -0400 choochoo1802@... writes:
                                              >
                                              > Steve- Are you in Frontier Yard?  I heard its a mess in Buffalo
                                              > also. We
                                              > have over 400 cars interchanged to CSX in Syracuse,but the problem
                                              > is
                                              > that they are not in DeWitt where they are suppose to be.They are
                                              > scattered all over the place.Give it more time,it will start hitting
                                              > the
                                              > media. Mark
                                              >
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