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RE: [FJGRailroad] RE:SB&NY Charter

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  • paul larner
    Yes, that was the line. PKL
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 28, 2004
      Yes, that was the line.

      PKL

      >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] RE:SB&NY Charter
      >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:23:33 -0600
      >
      >Wasn't the line between Syracuse and Bingo known as the SB&NY before it
      >Became Lackawanna?
      >
      >Gino
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
      >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 6:42 AM
      >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] RE:SB&NY Charter
      >
      >
      >
      >Yes Gino. The SB&NY charter is the amended FJ&G charter of 1902. DO
      >amended the name in the charter from FJ&G to SB&NY; the rest is the
      >essentially the same.
      >
      >PKL
      >
      > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
      > >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:33:19 -0500
      > >
      > >
      > >Received the following re the NS owning the DO:
      > >
      > >
      > >"I think what is meant by the NS "owning" the DO is that the NS owns I
      > >believe 20%, as does CSX, with the remaining being owned by the DO
      > >Chairman.
      > >
      > >This was part of the NS/CSX tear up of Conrail, so I guess it would
      > >have happened in 99 or '00, but I don't know exactly.
      > >
      > >I knew this was coming months ago, as NS wants out of the tier from
      > >Bingo down.
      > >
      > >Was there an article or something stating this in the press lately? I
      > >haven't seen anything on it, but knew it was coming."
      > >
      > >
      > >PKL
      > >
      > >
      > > >From: "joseph Klapkowski" <riverlinejoe@...>
      > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
      > > >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:58:39 +0000
      > > >
      > > >The Cushing Branch piece appeared in a 1994 issue of railpace. I can
      > > >not find the mag but it was in the spring.
      > > >
      > > > >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
      > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
      > > > >Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:07:59 -0600
      > > > >
      > > > >Not unless Walter sold her! I think he abandons lines before he
      > > > >sells them! There is the scrap value after all!
      > > > >He does save the charters though, CNYK case in point. I think the
      > > > >stretch of railroad from Syracuse
      > > > >to Jamesville is the FJ&G, no lie!
      > > > >
      > > > >Gino
      > > > >
      > > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > > From: joseph Klapkowski [mailto:riverlinejoe@...]
      > > > > Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 3:54 PM
      > > > > To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Doesn't NS own DO which owns CNY and NYSW?
      > > > >
      > > > > >From: mwilber@...
      > > > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
      > > > > >Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:06:46 -0500
      > > > > >
      > > > > >Mike-Thats been in the works,but I doubt you'll see it.From
      > > > >Deposit east
      > > > > >its about 35mph track. The Tier runs along the Delaware
      >River,and
      > > > >there
      > > > > >is no straight track.Commuters dont want to ride a train when
      >it
      > > > >takes 6
      > > > > >hours to get to NYC when a bus it takes 4 hours plus the price
      > > > >tag would
      > > > > >probably be more.Mark
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Visit Gino's Railpage at
      > > > > http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
      > > > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
      > > > >http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
      > > > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
      > > > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
      > > > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New
      >York
      > > > >State at
      > > > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
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      > > >D=groups/S=1705295267:HM/EXP=1104267303/A=2455396/R=0/SIG=119u9qmi7/*
      > > >htt
      > > > >p://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/>
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > ><http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=294855.5468653.6549235.3001176/D=gr
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      >Visit Gino's Railpage at
      >http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
      >Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
      >http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/ Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
      >http://www.lostlandmarks.org Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing
      >Railroad Stations in New York State at http://ny.existingstations.com/
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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    • joseph Klapkowski
      My recollection of the events was that this was a pre-emptive move on the part of NS. Uncertain as to what the outcome of the CR sale might be, they secured
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 28, 2004
        My recollection of the events was that this was a pre-emptive move on the
        part of NS. Uncertain as to what the outcome of the CR sale might be, they
        secured entry into NYC via D&H (haulage agreement?), Buffalo to Binghamton
        and NYSW over the tier and into Little Ferry. The idea that CSX (or even
        worse BN) might get the whole of Conrail without sharing any of the assets
        was a real fear for NS. They retained Morgan Stanley as thier advisor and I
        believe that they had accumulated something on the order of $3-4 billion in
        cash assets to make thier bid stand out. I also seem to remember that at
        various times, one or more of the bidders publicly announced that they were
        dropping out of the bidding. I am not clear on how the final outcome
        occurred. The government wanted to sell the whole thing in one shot. Various
        politicians were pushing for a "Highest Bidder" auction to recoup the
        government's investment as best they could.

        In the end I kind of think that CSX was the high bidder but NS cried foul. I
        think there was political pressure placed upon both sides and they both went
        behind closed doors to work out the "split-up" plan.

        I think this is more or less how it went.


        >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
        >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:29:02 -0600
        >
        >Wow, I didn't realize that!
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: mwilber@... [mailto:mwilber@...]
        >Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:01 AM
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
        >
        >
        >
        >Joe-Yes there was a buyout and NS does own good portion of the NYSW.Mark
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Visit Gino's Railpage at
        >http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
        >Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
        >http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/ Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
        >http://www.lostlandmarks.org Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing
        >Railroad Stations in New York State at http://ny.existingstations.com/
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • joseph Klapkowski
        Except for the LASB (do they have any traffic ?) and Narrowsburg Lumber, is there any local traffic between PJ and Bing?
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 28, 2004
          Except for the LASB (do they have any traffic ?) and Narrowsburg Lumber, is
          there any local traffic between PJ and Bing?

          >From: "Stephen G. Myers" <Knixrule1@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Bingo to Port Jervis
          >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:54:07 -0500
          >
          >
          >NS will run trains over the line but local switching will be provided by
          >CNYK? Are they union scale or is this an attempt to reduce wages? You
          >said that the signals will be removed too? Reminds me of the MEC and B&M
          >purchased by Guilford, they took down signals and reduced wages to make
          >more money. NS will be closing Bison Yard in Buffalo and move that work
          >to Bingo.
          >
          >Steve
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:41:30 -0500 mwilber@... writes:
          > >
          > > The buy out came just shortly after Conrail split up. Stocks were
          > > bought
          > > out around $25 a share.Anyone bought stocks from day one when the
          > > DO
          > > came into existance made a killing.The orignal price on a share was
          > > selling for $10.During the existance of DO,the stocks split 4
          > > ways,then
          > > split 10 ways,then doubled,and finally sold out for $25 a
          > > share.Thats a
          > > 80 to 1 split. Every $10 share in the beginning became a $2,000 in
          > > the
          > > end.What a kill! Several years ago the company gave its
          > > transportation
          > > employees shares of stock,depending on the length of service.A lot
          > > of us
          > > were uncertain what was going to happen to the stocks after
          > > Conrails
          > > breakup,so we sold ours around at $16 a share,now wishing we held
          > > onto
          > > ours for another 6 months later.Of course Uncle Sam had his hand
          > > into
          > > it. Mark
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Visit Gino's Railpage at
          > > http://www.ginosrailpage.com and http://fjgrr.org
          > > Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
          > > http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
          > > Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
          > > http://www.lostlandmarks.org
          > > Visit Charles P. Woolever's Existing Railroad Stations in New York
          > > State at
          > > http://ny.existingstations.com/
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
        • mwilber@webtv.net
          I asked today about the ownership,I thought the NS and CSX had more into it. Walt owns 80%,NS owns 10%,and CSX owns 10%.Mark
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 28, 2004
            I asked today about the ownership,I thought the NS and CSX had more into
            it. Walt owns 80%,NS owns 10%,and CSX owns 10%.Mark
          • mwilber@webtv.net
            The Frito Lay in Binghamton will be switched by us.There is not much in between Port Jervis and Bing.Narrowsburg also have a feed mill. Cohecton has a feed
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 28, 2004
              The Frito Lay in Binghamton will be switched by us.There is not much in
              between Port Jervis and Bing.Narrowsburg also have a feed mill. Cohecton
              has a feed mill and looking to increase traffic.Bisby Lumber (havent had
              a car in years) in Hancock has a siding.There is a siding in Deposit
              that can used by some one.I think Steve hit by saying the CNY for labor
              reasons,but hard to say.Mark
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