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RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed

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  • paul larner
    Wow, a realist! PKL
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 7, 2004
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      Wow, a realist!

      PKL


      >From: Gino DiCarlo <GDICARLO1@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
      >To: FJG Email Group <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
      >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:00:26 -0400
      >
      >Subject: Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
      >
      > Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
      > by George Spohr, Journal Staff
      >
      > 07/02/04: BINGHAMTON - The president of the state's leading
      >rail-advocacy group says an on-again, off-again proposal to link Utica
      >and Binghamton by rail is neither likely nor realistic.
      > Bruce B. Becker, president of the Empire State Passengers
      >Association (ESPA), says the plan - which originally was floated in
      >2002 by State Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito (D-Rome) and state Sen.
      >Thomas Libous (R-Binghamton) - likely would fail to attract enough
      >passengers to make the line profitable.
      >
      > Two years ago, Destito said the idea wasn't to create an
      >Amtrak-like passenger service between Binghamton and Utica, but rather
      >to run excursion trips during peak tourism time to connect Binghamton
      >to Union Station in Utica, where the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is
      >based.
      >
      > The owner of the tracks between the two cities, the New York
      >Susquehanna & Western Railway Corp. (NYS&W), could not be reached for
      >comment but in the past has indicated it plans on moving ahead with
      >passenger service to connect Binghamton with Utica and Syracuse.
      >
      > NYS&W, which operates OnTrack City Express passenger service in
      >Syracuse, has pitched two ideas, both of which possibly could be funded
      >with state transportation funds:
      >
      > . One or two self-propelled, 90-seat renovated passenger cars,
      >which previously were used by the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA)
      >in New York City, could carry passengers between the two cities.
      >
      > . A passenger car could be tacked onto a freight train carrying
      >cargo between Binghamton and Utica. Either plan would face significant
      >obstacles were it to succeed, Becker says.
      >
      > "While ESPA advocates passenger rail services as the most logical
      >and cost-effective alternative to the use of private automobiles, we do
      >not currently see the resumption of routine passenger rail service
      >between Utica and Binghamton as being either likely or realistic,"
      >Becker says. "The current rail line between these points would need
      >significant improvements in order to increase rail speeds and decrease
      >rail travel times to a point that would even be remotely competitive
      >with cars."
      >
      > Due to safety concerns borne of the track's physical condition,
      >the top speed of passenger trains between Utica and Binghamton could
      >not exceed 30 miles per hour.
      >
      > "Thus, routine rail trips would be far slower than by car - much
      >too slow to attract the necessary passengers," Becker says.
      >Short-distance excursion trains for special events, such as between
      >Binghamton and Norwich or Norwich and Utica, might work.
      >
      > "If the line were to be considered for possible special-event,
      >shorter-distance excursion trains, perhaps a market could be created
      >for a tourist-oriented service," he adds.
      >
      > Another problem is that, unlike a link between Binghamton and
      >Syracuse, which ESPA supports, there aren't enough significant
      >attractions at either end-point that would make the run profitable,
      >Becker says.
      >
      > "Unless a significant attraction were created at either
      >end-point, as exists in Syracuse with the Carrier Dome, it would not be
      >likely that the market could support such service," he says. "The
      >opportunity for service between Binghamton and Syracuse is much more
      >likely."
      >
      > ESPA is a 1,400-member citizens-advocacy organization that works
      >to promote improvements to passengers rail service and public
      >transportation in New York State and nationwide.
      >Visit Gino's Railpages at
      >
      >http://www.ginosrailpage.com
      >http://fjgrr.org
      >
    • joseph Klapkowski
      This may be unrealistic, but why not allow it to fail ? If I were pushing the idea, I might look for revenue enchancements like maybe carrying the mail between
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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        This may be unrealistic, but why not allow it to fail ? If I were pushing
        the idea, I might look for revenue enchancements like maybe carrying the
        mail between Utica and Bing.


        >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
        >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
        >Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:03:05 -0400
        >
        >Wow, a realist!
        >
        >PKL
        >
        >
        > >From: Gino DiCarlo <GDICARLO1@...>
        > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: FJG Email Group <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
        > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
        > >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:00:26 -0400
        > >
        > >Subject: Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
        > >
        > > Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
        > > by George Spohr, Journal Staff
        > >
        > > 07/02/04: BINGHAMTON - The president of the state's leading
        > >rail-advocacy group says an on-again, off-again proposal to link Utica
        > >and Binghamton by rail is neither likely nor realistic.
        > > Bruce B. Becker, president of the Empire State Passengers
        > >Association (ESPA), says the plan - which originally was floated in
        > >2002 by State Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito (D-Rome) and state Sen.
        > >Thomas Libous (R-Binghamton) - likely would fail to attract enough
        > >passengers to make the line profitable.
        > >
        > > Two years ago, Destito said the idea wasn't to create an
        > >Amtrak-like passenger service between Binghamton and Utica, but rather
        > >to run excursion trips during peak tourism time to connect Binghamton
        > >to Union Station in Utica, where the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is
        > >based.
        > >
        > > The owner of the tracks between the two cities, the New York
        > >Susquehanna & Western Railway Corp. (NYS&W), could not be reached for
        > >comment but in the past has indicated it plans on moving ahead with
        > >passenger service to connect Binghamton with Utica and Syracuse.
        > >
        > > NYS&W, which operates OnTrack City Express passenger service in
        > >Syracuse, has pitched two ideas, both of which possibly could be funded
        > >with state transportation funds:
        > >
        > > . One or two self-propelled, 90-seat renovated passenger cars,
        > >which previously were used by the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA)
        > >in New York City, could carry passengers between the two cities.
        > >
        > > . A passenger car could be tacked onto a freight train carrying
        > >cargo between Binghamton and Utica. Either plan would face significant
        > >obstacles were it to succeed, Becker says.
        > >
        > > "While ESPA advocates passenger rail services as the most logical
        > >and cost-effective alternative to the use of private automobiles, we do
        > >not currently see the resumption of routine passenger rail service
        > >between Utica and Binghamton as being either likely or realistic,"
        > >Becker says. "The current rail line between these points would need
        > >significant improvements in order to increase rail speeds and decrease
        > >rail travel times to a point that would even be remotely competitive
        > >with cars."
        > >
        > > Due to safety concerns borne of the track's physical condition,
        > >the top speed of passenger trains between Utica and Binghamton could
        > >not exceed 30 miles per hour.
        > >
        > > "Thus, routine rail trips would be far slower than by car - much
        > >too slow to attract the necessary passengers," Becker says.
        > >Short-distance excursion trains for special events, such as between
        > >Binghamton and Norwich or Norwich and Utica, might work.
        > >
        > > "If the line were to be considered for possible special-event,
        > >shorter-distance excursion trains, perhaps a market could be created
        > >for a tourist-oriented service," he adds.
        > >
        > > Another problem is that, unlike a link between Binghamton and
        > >Syracuse, which ESPA supports, there aren't enough significant
        > >attractions at either end-point that would make the run profitable,
        > >Becker says.
        > >
        > > "Unless a significant attraction were created at either
        > >end-point, as exists in Syracuse with the Carrier Dome, it would not be
        > >likely that the market could support such service," he says. "The
        > >opportunity for service between Binghamton and Syracuse is much more
        > >likely."
        > >
        > > ESPA is a 1,400-member citizens-advocacy organization that works
        > >to promote improvements to passengers rail service and public
        > >transportation in New York State and nationwide.
        > >Visit Gino's Railpages at
        > >
        > >http://www.ginosrailpage.com
        > >http://fjgrr.org
        > >
        >
        >

        _________________________________________________________________
        Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
        Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
      • Dicarlo, Gino
        I like the idea of the mixed train they re talking about. How can they lose money if the freight is going in that direction anyway? Gino ... From: joseph
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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          I like the idea of the mixed train they're talking about. How
          can they lose money if the freight is going in that direction
          anyway?

          Gino

          -----Original Message-----
          From: joseph Klapkowski [mailto:riverlinejoe@...]
          Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:07 PM
          To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica
          derailed


          This may be unrealistic, but why not allow it to fail ? If I were pushing
          the idea, I might look for revenue enchancements like maybe carrying the
          mail between Utica and Bing.


          >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
          >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
          >Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:03:05 -0400
          >
          >Wow, a realist!
          >
          >PKL
          >
          >
          > >From: Gino DiCarlo <GDICARLO1@...>
          > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
          > >To: FJG Email Group <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
          > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
          > >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:00:26 -0400
          > >
          > >Subject: Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
          > >
          > > Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
          > > by George Spohr, Journal Staff
          > >
          > > 07/02/04: BINGHAMTON - The president of the state's leading
          > >rail-advocacy group says an on-again, off-again proposal to link Utica
          > >and Binghamton by rail is neither likely nor realistic.
          > > Bruce B. Becker, president of the Empire State Passengers
          > >Association (ESPA), says the plan - which originally was floated in
          > >2002 by State Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito (D-Rome) and state Sen.
          > >Thomas Libous (R-Binghamton) - likely would fail to attract enough
          > >passengers to make the line profitable.
          > >
          > > Two years ago, Destito said the idea wasn't to create an
          > >Amtrak-like passenger service between Binghamton and Utica, but rather
          > >to run excursion trips during peak tourism time to connect Binghamton
          > >to Union Station in Utica, where the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is
          > >based.
          > >
          > > The owner of the tracks between the two cities, the New York
          > >Susquehanna & Western Railway Corp. (NYS&W), could not be reached for
          > >comment but in the past has indicated it plans on moving ahead with
          > >passenger service to connect Binghamton with Utica and Syracuse.
          > >
          > > NYS&W, which operates OnTrack City Express passenger service in
          > >Syracuse, has pitched two ideas, both of which possibly could be funded
          > >with state transportation funds:
          > >
          > > . One or two self-propelled, 90-seat renovated passenger cars,
          > >which previously were used by the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA)
          > >in New York City, could carry passengers between the two cities.
          > >
          > > . A passenger car could be tacked onto a freight train carrying
          > >cargo between Binghamton and Utica. Either plan would face significant
          > >obstacles were it to succeed, Becker says.
          > >
          > > "While ESPA advocates passenger rail services as the most logical
          > >and cost-effective alternative to the use of private automobiles, we do
          > >not currently see the resumption of routine passenger rail service
          > >between Utica and Binghamton as being either likely or realistic,"
          > >Becker says. "The current rail line between these points would need
          > >significant improvements in order to increase rail speeds and decrease
          > >rail travel times to a point that would even be remotely competitive
          > >with cars."
          > >
          > > Due to safety concerns borne of the track's physical condition,
          > >the top speed of passenger trains between Utica and Binghamton could
          > >not exceed 30 miles per hour.
          > >
          > > "Thus, routine rail trips would be far slower than by car - much
          > >too slow to attract the necessary passengers," Becker says.
          > >Short-distance excursion trains for special events, such as between
          > >Binghamton and Norwich or Norwich and Utica, might work.
          > >
          > > "If the line were to be considered for possible special-event,
          > >shorter-distance excursion trains, perhaps a market could be created
          > >for a tourist-oriented service," he adds.
          > >
          > > Another problem is that, unlike a link between Binghamton and
          > >Syracuse, which ESPA supports, there aren't enough significant
          > >attractions at either end-point that would make the run profitable,
          > >Becker says.
          > >
          > > "Unless a significant attraction were created at either
          > >end-point, as exists in Syracuse with the Carrier Dome, it would not be
          > >likely that the market could support such service," he says. "The
          > >opportunity for service between Binghamton and Syracuse is much more
          > >likely."
          > >
          > > ESPA is a 1,400-member citizens-advocacy organization that works
          > >to promote improvements to passengers rail service and public
          > >transportation in New York State and nationwide.
          > >Visit Gino's Railpages at
          > >
          > >http://www.ginosrailpage.com
          > >http://fjgrr.org
          > >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
          Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx




          Visit Gino's Railpage at
          http://www.ginosrailpage.com
          http://fjgrr.org
          Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
          Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
          http://www.lostlandmarks.org
          Visit The NERAIL North American Photo Archive at http://naphotos.nerail.org/
          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • paul larner
          Gino, Insurance, FRA requirements for minimum levels of track maintenance, inspections, additional employees, all cost money, not to mention equipment costs. I
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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            Gino,

            Insurance, FRA requirements for minimum levels of track maintenance,
            inspections, additional employees, all cost money, not to mention equipment
            costs.

            I agree it should have an opportunity to fail but this is what capitalists
            do best. The capitalists have determined that it will fail and will invest
            their money somewhere else. I don't purposely invest my money if I
            reasonably expect I'll lose it. They apparently did a thorough business
            analysis of the region and its assets determining there wasn't enough rvenue
            to support the investment. Is there a more pro passenger train group in
            this state? They have shown themselves to be responsible which could
            reflect well on their future initiatives when the results would be more
            productive.

            Mark, perhaps you can answer these: How much revenue on the
            Binghamton/Syracuse line is earned from on line customers and how much is
            overhead? Against that how much of the over head traffic could move just a
            well on the southern tier, if the tier received a little upgrading? What
            does it cost to maintain the line for twenty-five mph? What speeds is the
            line run at today?

            The state of Vermont just went through one of these operations in the
            Burlington area, finally giving up the ghost after spending many millions of
            our tax dollars. The VTR sure benefited though, by receiving a roadbed
            upgrade for a few miles and new crossing signals etc. The people voted with
            their automobiles. The tourists enjoyed the train and the VTR does
            capitalize exceptionally well on this market. But these guys re the
            Syracuse/Binghamton route answered that question too - not many people go
            there as tourists. Years ago it was determined that for a tourist railroad
            to be successful there has to a draw greater than the train to bring out the
            riders. The train becomes just a diversion but the folks will ride it if
            they're there. If just running a great (fantastic) rail experience was the
            key to success then East Broadtop would be running twelve months a year and
            the entire route. I haven't been there in too many years (used to go down
            for the winter spectaculars and every few summers) but in my opinion EBT is
            short line heaven. Going in the engine house and shops was truly steps into
            the past. Unfortunately too few beyond the true believers went to the area
            - it is hard to get to with little else to draw people - and the state, I
            think, committed a cardinal sin by not giving the money or at least some of
            the money, they spent on creating Steamtown amusement park over to the
            preservation and restoration of the East Broad Top. (Maybe could have built
            a better road up from the pike too)

            PKL


            >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
            >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
            >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
            >Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:56:24 -0500
            >
            >I like the idea of the mixed train they're talking about. How
            >can they lose money if the freight is going in that direction
            >anyway?
            >
            >Gino
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: joseph Klapkowski [mailto:riverlinejoe@...]
            >Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 1:07 PM
            >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica
            >derailed
            >
            >
            >This may be unrealistic, but why not allow it to fail ? If I were pushing
            >the idea, I might look for revenue enchancements like maybe carrying the
            >mail between Utica and Bing.
            >
            >
            > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
            > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica
            >derailed
            > >Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:03:05 -0400
            > >
            > >Wow, a realist!
            > >
            > >PKL
            > >
            > >
            > > >From: Gino DiCarlo <GDICARLO1@...>
            > > >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
            > > >To: FJG Email Group <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
            > > >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
            > > >Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:00:26 -0400
            > > >
            > > >Subject: Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
            > > >
            > > > Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
            > > > by George Spohr, Journal Staff
            > > >
            > > > 07/02/04: BINGHAMTON - The president of the state's leading
            > > >rail-advocacy group says an on-again, off-again proposal to link Utica
            > > >and Binghamton by rail is neither likely nor realistic.
            > > > Bruce B. Becker, president of the Empire State Passengers
            > > >Association (ESPA), says the plan - which originally was floated in
            > > >2002 by State Assemblywoman RoAnn Destito (D-Rome) and state Sen.
            > > >Thomas Libous (R-Binghamton) - likely would fail to attract enough
            > > >passengers to make the line profitable.
            > > >
            > > > Two years ago, Destito said the idea wasn't to create an
            > > >Amtrak-like passenger service between Binghamton and Utica, but rather
            > > >to run excursion trips during peak tourism time to connect Binghamton
            > > >to Union Station in Utica, where the Adirondack Scenic Railroad is
            > > >based.
            > > >
            > > > The owner of the tracks between the two cities, the New York
            > > >Susquehanna & Western Railway Corp. (NYS&W), could not be reached for
            > > >comment but in the past has indicated it plans on moving ahead with
            > > >passenger service to connect Binghamton with Utica and Syracuse.
            > > >
            > > > NYS&W, which operates OnTrack City Express passenger service in
            > > >Syracuse, has pitched two ideas, both of which possibly could be funded
            > > >with state transportation funds:
            > > >
            > > > . One or two self-propelled, 90-seat renovated passenger cars,
            > > >which previously were used by the Metropolitan Transit Authority (MTA)
            > > >in New York City, could carry passengers between the two cities.
            > > >
            > > > . A passenger car could be tacked onto a freight train carrying
            > > >cargo between Binghamton and Utica. Either plan would face significant
            > > >obstacles were it to succeed, Becker says.
            > > >
            > > > "While ESPA advocates passenger rail services as the most
            >logical
            > > >and cost-effective alternative to the use of private automobiles, we do
            > > >not currently see the resumption of routine passenger rail service
            > > >between Utica and Binghamton as being either likely or realistic,"
            > > >Becker says. "The current rail line between these points would need
            > > >significant improvements in order to increase rail speeds and decrease
            > > >rail travel times to a point that would even be remotely competitive
            > > >with cars."
            > > >
            > > > Due to safety concerns borne of the track's physical condition,
            > > >the top speed of passenger trains between Utica and Binghamton could
            > > >not exceed 30 miles per hour.
            > > >
            > > > "Thus, routine rail trips would be far slower than by car -
            >much
            > > >too slow to attract the necessary passengers," Becker says.
            > > >Short-distance excursion trains for special events, such as between
            > > >Binghamton and Norwich or Norwich and Utica, might work.
            > > >
            > > > "If the line were to be considered for possible special-event,
            > > >shorter-distance excursion trains, perhaps a market could be created
            > > >for a tourist-oriented service," he adds.
            > > >
            > > > Another problem is that, unlike a link between Binghamton and
            > > >Syracuse, which ESPA supports, there aren't enough significant
            > > >attractions at either end-point that would make the run profitable,
            > > >Becker says.
            > > >
            > > > "Unless a significant attraction were created at either
            > > >end-point, as exists in Syracuse with the Carrier Dome, it would not be
            > > >likely that the market could support such service," he says. "The
            > > >opportunity for service between Binghamton and Syracuse is much more
            > > >likely."
            > > >
            > > > ESPA is a 1,400-member citizens-advocacy organization that
            >works
            > > >to promote improvements to passengers rail service and public
            > > >transportation in New York State and nationwide.
            > > >Visit Gino's Railpages at
            > > >
            > > >http://www.ginosrailpage.com
            > > >http://fjgrr.org
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >_________________________________________________________________
            >Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
            >Technology 101. http://special.msn.com/tech/technology101.armx
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Visit Gino's Railpage at
            >http://www.ginosrailpage.com
            >http://fjgrr.org
            >Visit The Greater Capital District Railfan Assocation at
            >http://gcdranet.homelinux.com/
            >Visit Pete Seftons Lost Landmark Page
            >http://www.lostlandmarks.org
            >Visit The NERAIL North American Photo Archive at
            >http://naphotos.nerail.org/
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Dicarlo, Gino
            I think Mark s got computer problems and is off-line... Also, I didn t mean to imply that it would be free to run any sort of passenger line, but liked the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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              I think Mark's got computer problems and is off-line...

              Also, I didn't mean to imply that it would be free to run
              any sort of passenger line, but liked the idea of a mixed
              train. How long has it been since a railroad ran a mixed
              train? A long time I think. The FJG gave it up in the
              50's. Wouldn't it cost less to run a mixed train as opposed
              to a sole passenger run? Also, running a RDC has to be
              a little more economical that a string of coaches, right?

              Gino

              -----Original Message-----
              From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
              Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:36 PM
              To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica
              derailed


              Gino,

              Insurance, FRA requirements for minimum levels of track maintenance,
              inspections, additional employees, all cost money, not to mention equipment
              costs.

              PKL
            • paul larner
              From the FRA perspective if you run passengers you have certain responsibilities re track maintenance, inspection and speed. Ask anyone else who has put
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 8, 2004
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                From the FRA perspective if you run passengers you have certain
                responsibilities re track maintenance, inspection and speed. Ask anyone
                else who has put together an excursion and you'll hear about the high cost
                of insurance. If it were easy the Battenkill and perhaps many others would
                be running mixed trains for the occassional railfan dollar. A few lines ran
                mixed trains into the sixties, but this was to serve specific though limited
                needs and often the coach was nothing more than a rider car for the crew. I
                am reminded of Hasting photos of the StJ&LC mixed train.

                The key to any service is enough people willing to pay enough to support the
                service or a justifiable public need to permit the necessary subsidy. This
                latter is the reason states and the feds subsidize all the regular rail
                passenger service that exists today. There aren't yet enough people or
                inconvenience to compel people to ride the trains in most markets. This was
                the failure of the Vt experiment and why there are not yet any commuter
                trains running between Fort Edward and Albany. I don't doubt they're
                coming, at least in this region, but not before the Northway goes to
                gridlock for week after week after week and the people realise they have to
                put there cars up. Of course the other side is to raise the price of
                gasoline up to reflect better the former ratio between its price and that of
                furnace oil. Is gasoline being kept artificially low or are we being gouged
                on fuel oil (or both).

                PKL


                >From: "Dicarlo, Gino" <Gino.Dicarlo@...>
                >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >To: <FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com>
                >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica derailed
                >Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:52:12 -0500
                >
                >I think Mark's got computer problems and is off-line...
                >
                >Also, I didn't mean to imply that it would be free to run
                >any sort of passenger line, but liked the idea of a mixed
                >train. How long has it been since a railroad ran a mixed
                >train? A long time I think. The FJG gave it up in the
                >50's. Wouldn't it cost less to run a mixed train as opposed
                >to a sole passenger run? Also, running a RDC has to be
                >a little more economical that a string of coaches, right?
                >
                >Gino
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: paul larner [mailto:pklarner@...]
                >Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 2:36 PM
                >To: FJGRailroad@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: RE: [FJGRailroad] Train service linking Binghamton, Utica
                >derailed
                >
                >
                >Gino,
                >
                >Insurance, FRA requirements for minimum levels of track maintenance,
                >inspections, additional employees, all cost money, not to mention equipment
                >costs.
                >
                >PKL
                >
                >
                >
                >
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