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144Re: Engine Roster

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  • Paul Charland
    Nov 4, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Gino,

      Has Walt moved to Gloversville? He used to be in Syracuse.

      The other Paul!

      Gino And Kelly DiCarlo wrote:

      > From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
      >
      > Paul,
      >
      > I haven't heard a response from him. I'm just trying to get some
      > discussions going on the list. Especially yours and Aarons because
      > you guys don't skimp on the details. I've asked him to join the list
      > but still no reply...
      >
      > Gino
      >
      > ----------
      > >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      > >Date: Wed, Nov 3, 1999, 7:51 PM
      > >
      >
      > > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >
      > > Gino, would your source like to communicate with me on this roster. He has
      > > information I would like to have as corroboration? Has he joinedthe group?
      > > Walt Danyluk has the most extensive collection of news reports and much
      > > other info re FJ&G, tons of original research. I'm still plugging in the
      > > archives at the NYS Library.
      > >
      > > PKL
      > >
      > >
      > >>From: "Gino And Kelly DiCarlo" <dicarlos@...>
      > >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > >>To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      > >>Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:04:44 -0500
      > >>
      > >>Thanks for all the info Paul!
      > >>
      > >>Gino
      > >>
      > >>----------
      > >> >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >> >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > >> >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      > >> >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >> > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      > >> >
      > >> > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
      > >> > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving
      > >>another
      > >> > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't
      > >>indicate a
      > >> > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We
      > >>do
      > >> > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
      > >> > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
      > >> > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
      > >> > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester
      > >>bell
      > >> > on the Pioneer.
      > >> >
      > >> > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
      > >> > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the
      > >>source
      > >> > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
      > >> >
      > >> > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in
      > >>the
      > >> > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
      > >> > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March
      > >>30,
      > >> > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No.
      > >>5
      > >> > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the
      > >>electric
      > >> > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase
      > >>of
      > >> > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4,
      > >>11
      > >> > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co.
      > >>I
      > >> > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
      > >> > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
      > >> > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the
      > >>company
      > >> > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile
      > >>these
      > >> > dates with the dates given in the roster.
      > >> >
      > >> > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in
      > >>fiscal
      > >> > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The
      > >>FJ&G
      > >> > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
      > >> > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
      > >> > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record
      > >>of
      > >> > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
      > >> > 1897.
      > >> >
      > >> > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
      > >> > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3
      > >>and 4
      > >> > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is
      > >>reference
      > >> > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
      > >> >
      > >> > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
      > >> > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info
      > >>today.
      > >> >
      > >> > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
      > >> > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
      > >> > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
      > >> > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
      > >> > FY 1874 3 engines
      > >> >
      > >> > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
      > >> > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
      > >> > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad,
      > >>which
      > >> > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their
      > >>own.
      > >> > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
      > >> > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
      > >> > didn't vary.
      > >> >
      > >> > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of
      > >>contract
      > >> > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives
      > >>which
      > >> > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own
      > >>locomotives,
      > >> > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New
      > >>cabs,
      > >> > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did
      > >>it
      > >> > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin
      > >>that
      > >> > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
      > >> > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
      > >> > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
      > >> >
      > >> > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and
      > >>won't
      > >> > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working
      > >>the
      > >> > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early
      > >>eighties
      > >> > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
      > >> > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm
      > >>afraid
      > >> > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
      > >> >
      > >> > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were
      > >>the
      > >> > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was
      > >>done
      > >> > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does
      > >>anyone
      > >> > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period
      > >>appear
      > >> > to be in the couty files, not state.
      > >> >
      > >> > Now does this get another discussion going?
      > >> >
      > >> > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth,
      > >>however if
      > >> > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
      > >> >
      > >> > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the
      > >>group
      > >> > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's
      > >>lying
      > >> > dormant.
      > >> >
      > >> > PKL
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
      > >> >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      > >> >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      > >> >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      > >> >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
      > >> >>
      > >> >>Gino,
      > >> >>
      > >> >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know
      > >>is
      > >> >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I
      > >>hear,
      > >> >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
      > >> >>
      > >> >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
      > >> >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
      > >> >>college.
      > >> >>
      > >> >>-Aaron
      > >> >>
      > >> >>-----Original Message-----
      > >> >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
      > >> >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      > >> >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
      > >> >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
      > >> >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
      > >> >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
      > >> >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
      > >> >> >incomplete...
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> >here it is...
      > >> >> >
      > >> >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
      > >> >> > ren."David A.Wells"
      > >> >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      > >> >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
      > >> >> >2nd.2 ??
      > >> >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
      > >> >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      > >> >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
      > >> >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
      > >> >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      > >> >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
      > >> >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      > >> >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
      > >> >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
      > >> >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
      > >> >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
      > >> >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      > >> >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
      > >> >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      > >> >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
      > >> >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
      > >> >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
      > >> >> > Manhattan Ry.111
      > >> >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
      > >> >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
      > >> >> >13 ??
      > >> >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
      > >> >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
      > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
      > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
      > >> >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >>
      > >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >> >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > >> >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      > >> >><< text3.html >>
      > >> >
      > >> > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > >> > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      > >><< text3.html >>
      > >
      > > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      > >
      >
      > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
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