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137Re: Engine Roster

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  • Gino And Kelly DiCarlo
    Nov 3, 1999
      Thanks for all the info Paul!

      Gino

      ----------
      >From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      >To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      >Date: Tue, Nov 2, 1999, 3:30 PM
      >

      > From: "paul larner" <pklarner@...>
      >
      > Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
      > week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving another
      > locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't indicate a
      > locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We do
      > know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
      > shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
      > especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
      > other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester bell
      > on the Pioneer.
      >
      > The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
      > engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the source
      > and other material acquired at the same time ???.
      >
      > Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in the
      > first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
      > numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March 30,
      > 1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No. 5
      > was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the electric
      > road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase of
      > the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4, 11
      > in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co. I
      > have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
      > built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
      > seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the company
      > re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile these
      > dates with the dates given in the roster.
      >
      > The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in fiscal
      > 6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The FJ&G
      > fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
      > over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
      > Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record of
      > when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
      > 1897.
      >
      > The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
      > Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3 and 4
      > were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is reference
      > to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.
      >
      > I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
      > consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info today.
      >
      > Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
      > FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
      > FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
      > FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
      > FY 1874 3 engines
      >
      > The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
      > freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
      > undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad, which
      > wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their own.
      > They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
      > explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
      > didn't vary.
      >
      > During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of contract
      > work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives which
      > were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own locomotives,
      > so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New cabs,
      > tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did it
      > for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin that
      > resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
      > domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
      > extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.
      >
      > Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and won't
      > answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working the
      > 1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early eighties
      > right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
      > much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm afraid
      > the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.
      >
      > Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were the
      > directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was done
      > in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does anyone
      > know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period appear
      > to be in the couty files, not state.
      >
      > Now does this get another discussion going?
      >
      > I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth, however if
      > someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.
      >
      > Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the group
      > and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's lying
      > dormant.
      >
      > PKL
      >
      >
      >>From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
      >>Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      >>To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      >>Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      >>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
      >>
      >>Gino,
      >>
      >>I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
      >>correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
      >>most common rosters are inaccurate.
      >>
      >>Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
      >>unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
      >>college.
      >>
      >>-Aaron
      >>
      >>-----Original Message-----
      >>From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
      >>To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      >>Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
      >>Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      >>
      >>
      >> >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
      >> >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
      >> >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
      >> >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
      >> >incomplete...
      >> >
      >> >here it is...
      >> >
      >> >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
      >> > ren."David A.Wells"
      >> >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      >> >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
      >> >2nd.2 ??
      >> >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
      >> >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      >> >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
      >> >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
      >> >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      >> >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
      >> >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      >> >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
      >> >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
      >> >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
      >> >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
      >> >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      >> >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
      >> >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      >> >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
      >> >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
      >> >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
      >> > Manhattan Ry.111
      >> >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
      >> >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
      >> >13 ??
      >> >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
      >> > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
      >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
      >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
      >> >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >>Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      >>http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      >><< text3.html >>
      >
      > > Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      > http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      >
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