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136Re: Engine Roster

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  • paul larner
    Nov 2, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      Believe it or not, there seems to be a new mystery to their roster every
      week. Walt turned up an 1879 item indicating the FJ&G was receiving another
      locomotive. Can't figure since their capitalization records don't indicate a
      locomotive purchased about this time. Not even a second hand one. We do
      know that for repairs in the years before the FJ&G constructed their own
      shop all repairs had to be done at Schenectady. The is interesting. Am
      especially anxious to know the methodology in documenting the builders,
      other than the available Schenectady records and the obvious Manchester bell
      on the Pioneer.

      The Schenectady nos. are easy to check. There is a picture of a Brook's
      engine strongly believed to be pictured on the FJ&G, because of the source
      and other material acquired at the same time ???.

      Here's some further info.: The four Manhattan types were acquired in the
      first six months of 1903. They were numbered 1, 2, 4, and 11, the open
      numbers on the roster at that time. No. 4 (127 Blt 1896) arrived March 30,
      1903; No. 11 (130 Blt 1895) arrived April 23, 1903 The one and only No. 5
      was still on the roster and have a reference to it in use on the electric
      road extension project. Probably not too convenient hence the purchase of
      the Forneys. No. 5 was retired from the books along with Forneys 1, 4, 11
      in fiscal year ended 6/30/05. No. 4 being sold to the Burton Lumber Co. I
      have no readily available info on the Forneys 1 and 2, except No. 1 was
      built in 1895. No. 2 is a blank though it is the only one I can recall
      seeing in a photo. Built date references are from a letter to the company
      re inspection of the engines before acquisition. We need to reconcile these
      dates with the dates given in the roster.

      The FJ&G acquired two "small" locomotives and two "small" coaches in fiscal
      6/30/93 to compete with the Cayadutta. This didn't last long as The FJ&G
      fell into NYC hands, through a little bit of conspiracy, then was turned
      over to the Cayadutta through a little more conniving. Mr. Caten and the
      Littauer Brothers were instrumental in this bit of trickery. No record of
      when the locos were retired though the company took a $500 credit in FY
      1897.

      The company also, at least as far as I can determine, did not capitalize
      Nos. 7, 10 (1893 by the Builder's numbers) or 2nd No. 3 (1894). Old 3 and 4
      were allegedly taken in exchange for 2nd No. 3. However there is reference
      to No. 4 in 1897. Perhaps not the same loco.

      I believe 1st No. 3 was a 4-6-0, 1st No. 4 a 4-4-0. This would be
      consistent with the Commissioner's report and the best available info today.

      Reports FY 12/1/70 none listed FY 1875 4 engines
      FY 11/28/71 2 engines FY 1876-79 5 engines
      FY 1872 3 engines FY 1880 3 as 2(4 wheel)-1(six wheel)
      FY 1873 3 engines FY 1881 5 as 3-2
      FY 1874 3 engines

      The inconsistency from 79 to 80 then 81 may be explained by the fact one
      freight and one passenger engine were acquired about the time the FJ&G
      undertook the operation of the Gloversville and Northville Railroad, which
      wasn't acquired until 1881, but never owned any locomotives of their own.
      They had a two stall engine house according to the NYSRRComRpts. and may
      explain an oversight by the person who filed the report. Money numbers
      didn't vary.

      During the late 1880's and maybe into 1891 the FJ&G did a lot of contract
      work for the New York Power and Equipment Co. They rebuilt locomotives which
      were then sold to other railroads. They also rebuilt their own locomotives,
      so much so that they are confused as being another locomotive. New cabs,
      tenders, smoke box extensions, fire boxes, trucks you name it they did it
      for NYP&E and for themselves. I have a picture of No. 2 at Broadalbin that
      resembles the one in Dave Nestle's book only when you look close at the
      domes and engine. Smoke box and cab are diferent. Nos 1, 2, 4 were
      extensively rebuilt by FJ&G.

      Anyway if you haven't figured by now this is going a little long and won't
      answer all the questions (going back to my first sentence) I'm working the
      1893 papers at present and Walt is working in the late 70's, early eighties
      right now and we aren't any closer to closing the gap. After I gather as
      much as I can find, I'll try to put another roster together, but I'm afraid
      the 80's to 1893 are going to always have a hole or two.

      Question: Does any one know anything about the NYP&E Co. Eg: who were the
      directors and officers, where was their office (we know their work was done
      in Gloversville), how long did they continue in business. Or does anyone
      know how I can find this out. Corporate records during this period appear
      to be in the couty files, not state.

      Now does this get another discussion going?

      I haven't been able to follow up on the waiting shelter in Perth, however if
      someone wants to reconstruct it it is available, with a small condition.

      Gino, a note from the Bridge Line HS ask your questioner to join the group
      and to offer his material. There's a lot of research out there that's lying
      dormant.

      PKL


      >From: "Aaron Keller" <aakeller@...>
      >Reply-To: FJGRailroad@onelist.com
      >To: <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      >Subject: Re: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      >Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:22:18 -0500
      >
      >Gino,
      >
      >I know very little off-hand about the steam locomotives. What I do know is
      >correct. I know little about the early locomotives and, from what I hear,
      >most common rosters are inaccurate.
      >
      >Walt Danylak of Gloversville probably has the best available roster. I
      >unfortunately do not have a copy of what he put together with me here in
      >college.
      >
      >-Aaron
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Gino And Kelly DiCarlo <dicarlos@...>
      >To: FJG Railroad <FJGRailroad@onelist.com>
      >Date: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 1:03 PM
      >Subject: [FJGRailroad] Engine Roster
      >
      >
      > >A guy on the internet supplied me with an FJG roster that he had
      > >and he wanted me to check it. I'm posting his so that Paul Larner
      > >and Aaron Keller could check it out. I know you guys, especially
      > >Paul can tackle this. According to Paul, some of he info I have is
      > >incomplete...
      > >
      > >here it is...
      > >
      > >1st.1 4-4-0 Manch.8/70 249 "Pioneer"
      > > ren."David A.Wells"
      > >2nd.1 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      > >1st.2 4-4-0 Sch.12/70 678 "Cayadutta"
      > >2nd.2 ??
      > >1st.3 4-4-0 Sch.10/71 728 "W.J.Heacock"
      > >2nd.3 4-4-0 Blw./80 cn.?? (from your ws)
      > >3rd.3 4-4-0 Sch./94 4204 (you say sc./29)
      > >1st.4 4-6-0 Danf./74 or /75 (nothing else)
      > >2nd.4 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      > >1st.5 2-6-0 Hink./76 (19x24)
      > >2nd.5 4-4-0 Alt./81 cn.?? (ex PRR cl.D-2a)
      > >1st.6 4-6-0 ex /88 PRR
      > >2nd.6 4-4-0 Sch./99 5170 (you say sc./30)
      > >1st.7 2-6-0 Sch./89 (from your ws)
      > >2nd.7 0-6-0 Sch./93 4146 (you say sc./29)
      > >1st.8 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      > >2nd.8 4-4-0 Sch.5/01 6064
      > >1st.9 4-4-0 ex /89 PRR
      > >2nd.9 4-4-0 Sch.5/00 5557
      > >10 0-5-0 Sch./93 4179
      > >1st.11?? 0-4-4f Blw.3/79 4570 ex 5/03
      > > Manhattan Ry.111
      > >2nd.11 0-8-0 Sch./23 65158
      > >12 2-6-0 Sch.4/00 5558
      > >13 ??
      > >14 0-6-0 Sch./26 66984
      > > Now, there are 3 whose rd.nos.are not known:
      > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 751 ex 3/03 Manhattan Ry.120
      > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 758 ex MRy.127
      > >0-4-4f Rh.Isl.3/79 761 ex MRy.130
      >
      >
      >
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >Visit Gino's F.J.G.R.R. Page at
      >http://www.capital.net/~dicarlos/
      ><< text3.html >>
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