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FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other Events

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  • tmason1
    Notes: In personal software programs a notes window is a blank field where you can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 7, 2013
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      Notes:
      In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists, deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.

      Other Events:
      Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land records.

      Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs, sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text (Extractions) and Comments.

      In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings, marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to which sources may be attached.

      In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.

      Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to it?

      Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the title was created by "My Source Box"?

      (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree template?

      (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one would place into NOTES?

      (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering it into Family Tree and tagging them?

      (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a source should be entered in a field associated with the source document instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about this?

      To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet been placed into this beta software.

      Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.

      Terry Mason
      Clermont FL
    • Paul Walworth
      I agree, after going to the Beta Version, then reading the notices there.  It looks like I need to wait before doing more than just linking them together or
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 7, 2013
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        I agree, after going to the Beta Version, then reading the notices there.  It looks like I need to wait before doing more than just linking them together or adding more information. 


        Paul



        ________________________________
        From: tmason1 <tmason1@...>
        To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, April 7, 2013 2:55 PM
        Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other Events


         
        Notes:
        In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists, deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.

        Other Events:
        Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land records.

        Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs, sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text (Extractions) and Comments.

        In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings, marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to which sources may be attached.

        In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.

        Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to it?

        Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the title was created by "My Source Box"?

        (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree template?

        (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one would place into NOTES?

        (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering it into Family Tree and tagging them?

        (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a source should be entered in a field associated with the source document instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about this?

        To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet been placed into this beta software.

        Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.

        Terry Mason
        Clermont FL




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Terri Jaskolka
        Sorry, thought I was specific enough when I said I was adding the images from FamilySearch. What I meant to convey was that I find documents (images) from the
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 7, 2013
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          Sorry, thought I was specific enough when I said I was adding the images
          from FamilySearch. What I meant to convey was that I find documents
          (images) from the digitized collection of microfilms that apply to people
          on Family Tree and use the Source Box function to tie them together. Real
          easy with the dual monitors as I can read information from the document on
          FamilySearch while typing into Family Tree any updates that may apply from
          that document. Then, on my FamilySearch monitor, I add the image link to my
          Source Box and on my Family Tree monitor, go to the Source Box and link the
          item to the pertinent individual(s). Takes less effort than it sounds, I
          think. :)

          Specifically, I've been working on the Naso, Messina, Italy records that
          supposedly are being indexed (I keep trying to join that project but never
          find any available), and have had some just barely become searchable online
          a month ago, but only <50,000 records. Rather than wait indefinitely, I
          decided to go ahead and document the family online since I am already quite
          conversant with the records.

          -Terri J.

          PS. And you are correct about putting documents into the Photos feature. I
          asked about doing such a thing, wondering what the future intentions might
          be and was told that documents don't belong there, a separate functionality
          is in the works for that instead. So, I wonder where tombstone pictures
          fall. Are they like a photo (which to me sounds more like it is meant to be
          people or places) or more to be considered a document (which a tombstone
          could be considered, just an unusual recording media)? :-P

          On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 3:29 PM, tmason1 <tmason1@...> wrote:

          > How are you adding "images" to Family Tree. Are you just using the Photos
          > feature? That feature is not the place to put copies of certificates or
          > obituary notices, is it? I have thousands of images of birth and death
          > records but I have been told that we must wait to attach documents into the
          > Family Tree database. (Perhaps that is because documents are linked to
          > events instead of just to the person.)
          >
          > I am going to start a new thread about entering Sources into Family Tree.
          > I hope you will continue this discussion there.
          >
          > Terry Mason
          > Clermont FL
          >
          > --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, Terri Jaskolka <tjaskolka@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > <snip>
          > >
          > > I am having a blast adding images from FamilySearch to Family Tree, even
          > > though they haven't yet been indexed for the area in which the family
          > > lived. I'm counting on the promise that the URLs will not change to make
          > my
          > > documentation of the Family Tree something that will last the ages. :)
          > >
          > > -Terri J.
          > >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stewart Millar
          Terry, I will start by saying that no piece of software designed for any purpose is perfect . . . that goes for FT . . . and for PAF . . . and for RM . . .
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 7, 2013
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            Terry,



            I will start by saying that no piece of software "designed" for any purpose
            is perfect . . . that goes for FT . . . and for PAF . . . and for RM . . .
            and for AQ etc. etc.



            Sometime we just get "used" to what we have . . . when we ought to be
            refining our expectations.



            How you have described "Notes" is quite perfect . . . it is a dumping ground
            for all the bits that either did not fit elsewhere or where we thought the
            provisions elsewhere were too complicated to bother with.



            I think . . . and it is only my thinking . . . that FS and FT is leading us
            to a "new" way of thinking about the matters you have raised . . . and I
            think it is significant that they have not "yet" (will they ever?) transfer
            "Notes" from nFS to FT.



            For a long time any "understanding" user of the commercial FH software
            products has understood that Notes is the wrong place to put your sources.
            And on the other side, some users of these products felt the need to
            "invent" events in order to attach sources to them - and I would say that I
            do not consider "Life Events" to include . . . censuses . . . schools . . .
            military service etc. The software product I use allows such source to be
            attached to the individual - not requiring any "invented" event . . .
            strange, that's just what FT does.



            I am aware that most FH software products are into helping out with the
            source citation "constituent" parts - as you list - but I have to say, as a
            teacher of FH to non-academics, the academic/publishing world of rules for
            citations is a nonsense for the ordinary family historian - better to learn
            what a citation is meant to tell you . . . and start learning how to write
            your own . . . it really is easy and you do not need to use the rules of the
            Chicago Manual of Style to construct a usable citation . . . which is
            "probably" why FT leaves it open without all the confusing permutation
            options to choose from.



            Perhaps it has gone unnoticed . . . but in FT you can also enter sources
            against relationships . . . parent-child . . . marriages.



            Also any FT source has a "Notes" field for recording any qualification
            thought necessary.



            I consider it most significant the introduction in FT of "Stories" . . . I
            would see this as the real constituent part of our old "Notes" . . . the FT
            "Stories" can be broken up into digestible stories with their own title,
            significance and impact . . . rather than have multiple stories of an
            ancestor buried in 20 closely typed pages of Notes.



            So far then, FT is leading us down the road of properly defining our sources
            . . . against life events . . . or the person . . . or any relationship
            (allowing for a full citation for each source and any qualifying notes);
            also, to separate the anecdotal and historic stories of our ancestors into
            the FT "Stories" facility. Seems to me there may not be much left for the
            old fashioned "Notes".



            With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
            or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
            perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
            titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
            source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
            the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
            amended.



            I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
            there are no guarantees.



            ===Stewart



            From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            tmason1
            Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
            To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
            Events





            Notes:
            In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
            can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
            biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
            entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
            record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
            deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.

            Other Events:
            Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
            Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
            Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
            blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
            records.

            Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
            sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
            Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
            & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
            (Extractions) and Comments.

            In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
            marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
            to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
            which sources may be attached.

            In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
            Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
            and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.

            Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
            Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
            or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
            it?

            Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
            title was created by "My Source Box"?

            (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
            personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
            template?

            (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
            would place into NOTES?

            (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
            it into Family Tree and tagging them?

            (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
            data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
            information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
            placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
            source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
            instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
            this?

            To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
            entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
            been placed into this beta software.

            Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
            third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
            events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
            think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.

            Terry Mason
            Clermont FL





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • amadori2
            Rather than use Copy I have been creating all of my sources using the Tree Connect button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 8, 2013
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              Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)

              This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.

              You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much with them by that method.

              Ann A.

              --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar" <stew999@...> wrote:
              >
              > Terry,
              >
              > ...
              >
              > > With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
              > or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
              > perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
              > titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
              > source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
              > the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
              > amended.
              >
              >
              >
              > I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
              > there are no guarantees.
              >
              >
              >
              > ===Stewart
              >
              >
              >
              > From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              > tmason1
              > Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
              > To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
              > Events
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Notes:
              > In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
              > can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
              > biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
              > entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
              > record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
              > deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
              >
              > Other Events:
              > Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
              > Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
              > Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
              > blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
              > records.
              >
              > Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
              > sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
              > Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
              > & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
              > (Extractions) and Comments.
              >
              > In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
              > marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
              > to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
              > which sources may be attached.
              >
              > In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
              > Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
              > and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
              >
              > Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
              > Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
              > or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
              > it?
              >
              > Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
              > title was created by "My Source Box"?
              >
              > (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
              > personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
              > template?
              >
              > (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
              > would place into NOTES?
              >
              > (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
              > it into Family Tree and tagging them?
              >
              > (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
              > data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
              > information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
              > placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
              > source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
              > instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
              > this?
              >
              > To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
              > entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
              > been placed into this beta software.
              >
              > Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
              > third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
              > events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
              > think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
              >
              > Terry Mason
              > Clermont FL
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Venita
              Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in Source Box,
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:

                1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)

                With that information, any family history researcher in this generation and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of finding the same record are diminished.

                After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes, such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the person instead of the event. In this case, the event must also be identified in the notes.

                As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!) In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in the "Notes" field� if you have the missing data.

                If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is useful.

                Just trying to help.

                Venita


                On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2 <amadori33@...> wrote:

                > Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                >
                > This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                >
                > You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much with them by that method.
                >
                > Ann A.
                >
                > --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar" <stew999@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Terry,
                > >
                > > ...
                > >
                > > > With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
                > > or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
                > > perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
                > > titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                > > source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
                > > the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                > > amended.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
                > > there are no guarantees.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ===Stewart
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > > tmason1
                > > Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                > > To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                > > Events
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Notes:
                > > In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
                > > can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                > > biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
                > > entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
                > > record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                > > deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                > >
                > > Other Events:
                > > Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
                > > Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
                > > Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                > > blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
                > > records.
                > >
                > > Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
                > > sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                > > Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
                > > & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                > > (Extractions) and Comments.
                > >
                > > In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
                > > marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
                > > to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
                > > which sources may be attached.
                > >
                > > In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                > > Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
                > > and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                > >
                > > Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                > > Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
                > > or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
                > > it?
                > >
                > > Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
                > > title was created by "My Source Box"?
                > >
                > > (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                > > personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
                > > template?
                > >
                > > (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
                > > would place into NOTES?
                > >
                > > (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
                > > it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                > >
                > > (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
                > > data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
                > > information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
                > > placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
                > > source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                > > instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
                > > this?
                > >
                > > To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
                > > entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
                > > been placed into this beta software.
                > >
                > > Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                > > third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
                > > events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
                > > think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                > >
                > > Terry Mason
                > > Clermont FL
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Terri Jaskolka
                Venita, Regarding #2 ( Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Venita,

                  Regarding #2 ( Physical location of the original document. (NOT the
                  website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of
                  the document))...
                  I understand your intention here. Source citation is always meant to lead
                  investigators back to the original document (or as close to original as
                  exists). But if your source WAS a website and that site did not have its
                  own source citation (where did you photograph that document you posted?),
                  then citing just the website is probably the best you can do until you are
                  able to get more information from the person who posted the information
                  (how successful is that likely to be? I don't think I've been able to
                  accomplish it once), or you are able to track down the original for
                  yourself. (Not to mention the problem that citing a website is "dangerous"
                  all by itself because websites move, change and disappear constantly.)

                  I think perhaps a different way of looking at internet sources nowadays
                  could be that as long as you get to view the actual document (ok, virtual
                  document), from a reliable source (hasn't had the chance of being
                  photoshopped (there's another topic! lol) or can be deemed suspect in some
                  way, so I'm thinking archival sites, FamilySearch included), that is meant
                  to persist, that citing the internet location SHOULD suffice. Being able to
                  see the actual (virtual) document on a reputable site fulfills the need to
                  be useful you mention in your first sentence, in my opinion. Where the
                  original is PHYSICALLY may not even be relevant any more. I know of a
                  particular courthouse that no longer exists (don't know if the records
                  survived, destroying them instead of storing them was part of the original
                  demolition plan), so trying to track the physical repository down because
                  the records you want to cite were there when filmed is far from useful,
                  just for one example.

                  I may have read you wrong on this, but I am not saying you are wrong in
                  your desire to make the citation as accurate as possible so other
                  researchers may find easier access to the original, just pointing out some
                  other ways of thinking about it because many records exist now ONLY in a
                  digital (or microfilm) format (officially, not counting any personal
                  printouts, etc.).


                  On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Venita <venitar@...> wrote:

                  > Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program
                  > such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in
                  > Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:
                  >
                  > 1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or
                  > a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                  > 2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where
                  > you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                  >
                  > With that information, any family history researcher in this generation
                  > and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same
                  > record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of
                  > finding the same record are diminished.
                  >
                  > After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes,
                  > such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to
                  > that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the
                  > person instead of the event. In this case, the event must also be
                  > identified in the notes.
                  >
                  > As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of
                  > data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you
                  > can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm
                  > looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!)
                  > In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in
                  > the "Notes" field� if you have the missing data.
                  >
                  > If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the
                  > FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog
                  > entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with
                  > other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film
                  > number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of
                  > the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is
                  > useful.
                  >
                  > Just trying to help.
                  >
                  > Venita
                  >
                  >
                  > On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2 <amadori33@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the
                  > "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome,
                  > Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                  > >
                  > > This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can
                  > edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using
                  > it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                  > >
                  > > You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but
                  > I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much
                  > with them by that method.
                  > >
                  > > Ann A.
                  > >
                  > > --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar" <stew999@...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Terry,
                  > > >
                  > > > ...
                  > > >
                  > > > > With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of
                  > the Title
                  > > > or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT
                  > wasn't
                  > > > perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS
                  > source
                  > > > titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                  > > > source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source -
                  > delete
                  > > > the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                  > > > amended.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . .
                  > . but
                  > > > there are no guarantees.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ===Stewart
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of
                  > > > tmason1
                  > > > Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                  > > > To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                  > > > Events
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Notes:
                  > > > In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where
                  > you
                  > > > can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                  > > > biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories,
                  > journal
                  > > > entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place
                  > to
                  > > > record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                  > > > deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                  > > >
                  > > > Other Events:
                  > > > Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the
                  > "Edit
                  > > > Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all
                  > Census and
                  > > > Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                  > > > blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and
                  > Land
                  > > > records.
                  > > >
                  > > > Sources cite the location of information. In personal software
                  > programs,
                  > > > sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                  > > > Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository
                  > Name
                  > > > & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                  > > > (Extractions) and Comments.
                  > > >
                  > > > In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births,
                  > christenings,
                  > > > marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which
                  > are used
                  > > > to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records"
                  > event to
                  > > > which sources may be attached.
                  > > >
                  > > > In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                  > > > Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and
                  > Burial
                  > > > and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                  > > >
                  > > > Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                  > > > Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census
                  > record
                  > > > or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source
                  > to
                  > > > it?
                  > > >
                  > > > Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title
                  > if the
                  > > > title was created by "My Source Box"?
                  > > >
                  > > > (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                  > > > personal software source information into the Family Search - Family
                  > Tree
                  > > > template?
                  > > >
                  > > > (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above
                  > that one
                  > > > would place into NOTES?
                  > > >
                  > > > (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you
                  > entering
                  > > > it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                  > > >
                  > > > (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy
                  > of the
                  > > > data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about
                  > misleading
                  > > > information in a sources you cite? In personal software that
                  > evaluation is
                  > > > placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal
                  > evaluation of a
                  > > > source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                  > > > instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing
                  > about
                  > > > this?
                  > > >
                  > > > To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the
                  > data
                  > > > entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not
                  > yet
                  > > > been placed into this beta software.
                  > > >
                  > > > Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                  > > > third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and
                  > other
                  > > > events from personal software programs will be entered into Family
                  > Tree I
                  > > > think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                  > > >
                  > > > Terry Mason
                  > > > Clermont FL
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • singhals
                  Oh Yes! Excellent, Venita. I m VERY tired of I found it on Ancestry or It was at the LDS site. I m beginning to get hostile about Ancestry image 4356
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Oh Yes! Excellent, Venita.

                    I'm VERY tired of "I found it on Ancestry" or "It was at the
                    LDS site."

                    I'm beginning to get hostile about "Ancestry image 4356" too.

                    Websites change; some webmasters have way too much free time
                    and they spend it shuffling directories and subdirectories
                    around every week. Websites move; aol.com quit hosting
                    websites, Xoom.com crashed gracelessly; SOME of the data
                    made it to the archive site with a different URL, but a lot
                    of data just vanished.

                    Website URLs will do in a pinch, but the citation ought to
                    say be exactly as it would have been if you had seen the
                    actual census book; after you've got that info as insurance
                    against future changes cite the website by name and URL if
                    you want. Just get a whole whale of a lot more specific
                    than "http://www.ancestry.com"! (g)

                    Cheryl

                    PS -- oh yeah -- if you MUST cite a website, make sure
                    you're citing the RIGHT one. I'm being pestered by someone
                    wanting to know where I got some info he says is on my
                    website. I can't tell him where I got it because I've never
                    even seen what he's talking about, let alone put it on a
                    website!

                    Venita wrote:
                    > Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:
                    >
                    > 1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                    > 2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                    >
                    > With that information, any family history researcher in this generation and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of finding the same record are diminished.
                    >
                    > After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes, such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the person instead of the event. In this case, the event must also be identified in the notes.
                    >
                    > As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!) In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in the "Notes" field… if you have the missing data.
                    >
                    > If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is useful.
                    >
                    > Just trying to help.
                    >
                    > Venita
                    >
                    >
                    > On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2<amadori33@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                    >>
                    >> This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                    >>
                    >> You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much with them by that method.
                    >>
                    >> Ann A.
                    >>
                    >> --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar"<stew999@...> wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>> Terry,
                    >>>
                    >>> ...
                    >>>
                    >>>> With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
                    >>> or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
                    >>> perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
                    >>> titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                    >>> source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
                    >>> the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                    >>> amended.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
                    >>> there are no guarantees.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> ===Stewart
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                    >>> tmason1
                    >>> Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                    >>> To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                    >>> Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree> Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                    >>> Events
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Notes:
                    >>> In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
                    >>> can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                    >>> biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
                    >>> entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
                    >>> record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                    >>> deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                    >>>
                    >>> Other Events:
                    >>> Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
                    >>> Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
                    >>> Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                    >>> blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
                    >>> records.
                    >>>
                    >>> Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
                    >>> sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                    >>> Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
                    >>> & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                    >>> (Extractions) and Comments.
                    >>>
                    >>> In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
                    >>> marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
                    >>> to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
                    >>> which sources may be attached.
                    >>>
                    >>> In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                    >>> Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
                    >>> and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                    >>>
                    >>> Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                    >>> Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
                    >>> or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
                    >>> it?
                    >>>
                    >>> Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
                    >>> title was created by "My Source Box"?
                    >>>
                    >>> (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                    >>> personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
                    >>> template?
                    >>>
                    >>> (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
                    >>> would place into NOTES?
                    >>>
                    >>> (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
                    >>> it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                    >>>
                    >>> (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
                    >>> data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
                    >>> information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
                    >>> placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
                    >>> source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                    >>> instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
                    >>> this?
                    >>>
                    >>> To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
                    >>> entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
                    >>> been placed into this beta software.
                    >>>
                    >>> Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                    >>> third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
                    >>> events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
                    >>> think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                    >>>
                    >>> Terry Mason
                    >>> Clermont FL
                  • Venita
                    Hi Terry, I appreciate your input. Websites come and go, some require paid memberships, and etc., so using a website as a source archive is iffy at best.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Terry,

                      I appreciate your input. Websites come and go, some require paid memberships, and etc., so using a website as a source archive is iffy at best. Seeing a digital image on a website is probably the closest most of us will get to seeing the document itself, but a source citation still needs to include the location of the original document.

                      I have found the digital images of the parish records for some of my ancestors from Kent, England, on FindMyPast.com . Since the images are of the actual parish records, they are best sources available for the vital events' data. I want my rellies to be able to see the same records I saw. Since FMP does not allow free access to the general public, using it as a source is counter productive. In the source I create, I must include the name of the parish and the fact that the original document is stored in the Canterbury Cathedral Archives. Who knows what kind of access will be available for the Canterbury Cathedral Archives in another 10, 20, or 50 years? Whatever it is, the data needed to find a particular record will be in my source citation. If you want to add the website URL in the notes, just as a point of information, go for it.

                      The exception for the above is in regard to FS/FT. When you find the source in the FS pot, and attach it to a person in FT, we have been assured that the link will persist. Some of the links point to a digital image of the original record, but the majority do not, at least not yet. As of now, only a few of the FS-created sources include the location of the original record. If you dig deep enough though, including checking the FS Catalog, you can find it.

                      As for your point about the original archive building no longer existing, if the record still exists, it is stored someplace. That is the place we want to know. If the only record of the record is a microfilm now stored in the Granite Mountain vaults in Salt Lake City, we want to know that. The point is, as you acknowledged, giving complete and accurate source information allows others to trust our assertions, and to find the same record we saw.

                      Yours,

                      Venita


                      On Apr 9, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Terri Jaskolka <tjaskolka@...> wrote:

                      > Venita,
                      >
                      > Regarding #2 ( Physical location of the original document. (NOT the
                      > website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of
                      > the document))...
                      > I understand your intention here. Source citation is always meant to lead
                      > investigators back to the original document (or as close to original as
                      > exists). But if your source WAS a website and that site did not have its
                      > own source citation (where did you photograph that document you posted?),
                      > then citing just the website is probably the best you can do until you are
                      > able to get more information from the person who posted the information
                      > (how successful is that likely to be? I don't think I've been able to
                      > accomplish it once), or you are able to track down the original for
                      > yourself. (Not to mention the problem that citing a website is "dangerous"
                      > all by itself because websites move, change and disappear constantly.)
                      >
                      > I think perhaps a different way of looking at internet sources nowadays
                      > could be that as long as you get to view the actual document (ok, virtual
                      > document), from a reliable source (hasn't had the chance of being
                      > photoshopped (there's another topic! lol) or can be deemed suspect in some
                      > way, so I'm thinking archival sites, FamilySearch included), that is meant
                      > to persist, that citing the internet location SHOULD suffice. Being able to
                      > see the actual (virtual) document on a reputable site fulfills the need to
                      > be useful you mention in your first sentence, in my opinion. Where the
                      > original is PHYSICALLY may not even be relevant any more. I know of a
                      > particular courthouse that no longer exists (don't know if the records
                      > survived, destroying them instead of storing them was part of the original
                      > demolition plan), so trying to track the physical repository down because
                      > the records you want to cite were there when filmed is far from useful,
                      > just for one example.
                      >
                      > I may have read you wrong on this, but I am not saying you are wrong in
                      > your desire to make the citation as accurate as possible so other
                      > researchers may find easier access to the original, just pointing out some
                      > other ways of thinking about it because many records exist now ONLY in a
                      > digital (or microfilm) format (officially, not counting any personal
                      > printouts, etc.).
                      >
                      >
                      > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Venita <venitar@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program
                      >> such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in
                      >> Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:
                      >>
                      >> 1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or
                      >> a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                      >> 2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where
                      >> you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                      >>
                      >> With that information, any family history researcher in this generation
                      >> and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same
                      >> record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of
                      >> finding the same record are diminished.
                      >>
                      >> After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes,
                      >> such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to
                      >> that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the
                      >> person instead of the event. In this case, the event must also be
                      >> identified in the notes.
                      >>
                      >> As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of
                      >> data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you
                      >> can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm
                      >> looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!)
                      >> In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in
                      >> the "Notes" field… if you have the missing data.
                      >>
                      >> If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the
                      >> FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog
                      >> entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with
                      >> other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film
                      >> number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of
                      >> the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is
                      >> useful.
                      >>
                      >> Just trying to help.
                      >>
                      >> Venita
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2 <amadori33@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the
                      >> "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome,
                      >> Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                      >>>
                      >>> This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can
                      >> edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using
                      >> it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                      >>>
                      >>> You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but
                      >> I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much
                      >> with them by that method.
                      >>>
                      >>> Ann A.
                      >>>
                      >>> --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar" <stew999@...> wrote:
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Terry,
                      >>>>
                      >>>> ...
                      >>>>
                      >>>>> With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of
                      >> the Title
                      >>>> or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT
                      >> wasn't
                      >>>> perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS
                      >> source
                      >>>> titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                      >>>> source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source -
                      >> delete
                      >>>> the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                      >>>> amended.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . .
                      >> . but
                      >>>> there are no guarantees.
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> ===Stewart
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >> Behalf Of
                      >>>> tmason1
                      >>>> Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                      >>>> To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                      >>>> Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                      >>>> Events
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Notes:
                      >>>> In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where
                      >> you
                      >>>> can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                      >>>> biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories,
                      >> journal
                      >>>> entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place
                      >> to
                      >>>> record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                      >>>> deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Other Events:
                      >>>> Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the
                      >> "Edit
                      >>>> Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all
                      >> Census and
                      >>>> Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                      >>>> blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and
                      >> Land
                      >>>> records.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Sources cite the location of information. In personal software
                      >> programs,
                      >>>> sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                      >>>> Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository
                      >> Name
                      >>>> & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                      >>>> (Extractions) and Comments.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births,
                      >> christenings,
                      >>>> marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which
                      >> are used
                      >>>> to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records"
                      >> event to
                      >>>> which sources may be attached.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                      >>>> Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and
                      >> Burial
                      >>>> and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                      >>>> Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census
                      >> record
                      >>>> or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source
                      >> to
                      >>>> it?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title
                      >> if the
                      >>>> title was created by "My Source Box"?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                      >>>> personal software source information into the Family Search - Family
                      >> Tree
                      >>>> template?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above
                      >> that one
                      >>>> would place into NOTES?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you
                      >> entering
                      >>>> it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy
                      >> of the
                      >>>> data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about
                      >> misleading
                      >>>> information in a sources you cite? In personal software that
                      >> evaluation is
                      >>>> placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal
                      >> evaluation of a
                      >>>> source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                      >>>> instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing
                      >> about
                      >>>> this?
                      >>>>
                      >>>> To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the
                      >> data
                      >>>> entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not
                      >> yet
                      >>>> been placed into this beta software.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                      >>>> third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and
                      >> other
                      >>>> events from personal software programs will be entered into Family
                      >> Tree I
                      >>>> think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Terry Mason
                      >>>> Clermont FL
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>>
                      >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ------------------------------------
                      >>
                      >> or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Venita
                      Well said, Cheryl! :-) Venita
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Well said, Cheryl! :-)

                        Venita


                        On Apr 9, 2013, at 6:12 PM, singhals <singhals@...> wrote:

                        > Oh Yes! Excellent, Venita.
                        >
                        > I'm VERY tired of "I found it on Ancestry" or "It was at the
                        > LDS site."
                        >
                        > I'm beginning to get hostile about "Ancestry image 4356" too.
                        >
                        > Websites change; some webmasters have way too much free time
                        > and they spend it shuffling directories and subdirectories
                        > around every week. Websites move; aol.com quit hosting
                        > websites, Xoom.com crashed gracelessly; SOME of the data
                        > made it to the archive site with a different URL, but a lot
                        > of data just vanished.
                        >
                        > Website URLs will do in a pinch, but the citation ought to
                        > say be exactly as it would have been if you had seen the
                        > actual census book; after you've got that info as insurance
                        > against future changes cite the website by name and URL if
                        > you want. Just get a whole whale of a lot more specific
                        > than "http://www.ancestry.com"! (g)
                        >
                        > Cheryl
                        >
                        > PS -- oh yeah -- if you MUST cite a website, make sure
                        > you're citing the RIGHT one. I'm being pestered by someone
                        > wanting to know where I got some info he says is on my
                        > website. I can't tell him where I got it because I've never
                        > even seen what he's talking about, let alone put it on a
                        > website!
                        >
                        > Venita wrote:
                        >> Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:
                        >>
                        >> 1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                        >> 2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                        >>
                        >> With that information, any family history researcher in this generation and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of finding the same record are diminished.
                        >>
                        >> After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes, such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the person instead of the event. In this case, the event must also be identified in the notes.
                        >>
                        >> As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!) In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in the "Notes" field… if you have the missing data.
                        >>
                        >> If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is useful.
                        >>
                        >> Just trying to help.
                        >>
                        >> Venita
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2<amadori33@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                        >>>
                        >>> This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                        >>>
                        >>> You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much with them by that method.
                        >>>
                        >>> Ann A.
                        >>>
                        >>> --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar"<stew999@...> wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Terry,
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ...
                        >>>>
                        >>>>> With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
                        >>>> or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
                        >>>> perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
                        >>>> titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                        >>>> source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
                        >>>> the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                        >>>> amended.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
                        >>>> there are no guarantees.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> ===Stewart
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        >>>> tmason1
                        >>>> Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                        >>>> To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                        >>>> Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree> Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                        >>>> Events
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Notes:
                        >>>> In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
                        >>>> can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                        >>>> biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
                        >>>> entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
                        >>>> record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                        >>>> deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Other Events:
                        >>>> Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
                        >>>> Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
                        >>>> Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                        >>>> blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
                        >>>> records.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
                        >>>> sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                        >>>> Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
                        >>>> & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                        >>>> (Extractions) and Comments.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
                        >>>> marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
                        >>>> to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
                        >>>> which sources may be attached.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                        >>>> Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
                        >>>> and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                        >>>> Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
                        >>>> or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
                        >>>> it?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
                        >>>> title was created by "My Source Box"?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                        >>>> personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
                        >>>> template?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
                        >>>> would place into NOTES?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
                        >>>> it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
                        >>>> data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
                        >>>> information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
                        >>>> placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
                        >>>> source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                        >>>> instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
                        >>>> this?
                        >>>>
                        >>>> To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
                        >>>> entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
                        >>>> been placed into this beta software.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                        >>>> third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
                        >>>> events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
                        >>>> think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                        >>>>
                        >>>> Terry Mason
                        >>>> Clermont FL
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • James W Anderson
                        About FamilySearch and persistent URLs. The image URLs may change, but the plan is to keep the index page URLs, where you find the indexed data for a record,
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          About FamilySearch and persistent URLs.

                          The image URLs may change, but the plan is to keep the index page URLs, where you find the indexed data for a record, constant.  That way no matter what happens with the image or to the image's URL, the index will be kept, and that may explain why no source box link on the image pages.




                          ________________________________
                          From: singhals <singhals@...>
                          To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:12 PM
                          Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other Events

                          Oh Yes!  Excellent, Venita.

                          I'm VERY tired of "I found it on Ancestry" or "It was at the
                          LDS site."

                          I'm beginning to get hostile about "Ancestry image 4356" too.

                          Websites change; some webmasters have way too much free time
                          and they spend it shuffling directories and subdirectories
                          around every week.  Websites move; aol.com quit hosting
                          websites, Xoom.com crashed gracelessly; SOME of the data
                          made it to the archive site with a different URL, but a lot
                          of data just vanished.

                          Website URLs will do in a pinch, but the citation ought to
                          say be exactly as it would have been if you had seen the
                          actual census book; after you've got that info as insurance
                          against future changes cite the website by name and URL if
                          you want.  Just get a whole whale of a lot more specific
                          than "http://www.ancestry.com"! (g)

                          Cheryl

                          PS -- oh yeah --  if you MUST cite a website, make sure
                          you're citing the RIGHT one.  I'm being pestered by someone
                          wanting to know where I got some info he says is on my
                          website.  I can't tell him where I got it because I've never
                          even seen what he's talking about, let alone put it on a
                          website!

                          Venita wrote:
                          > Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the template in Source Box,  it needs the following to be useful to other researchers:
                          >
                          > 1.  Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record or a government record.  (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                          > 2.  Physical location of the original document.  (NOT the website where you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                          >
                          > With that information, any family history researcher in this generation and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same record that you saw.  If any of that information is missing, the chances of finding the same record are diminished.
                          >
                          > After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add notes, such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies only to that event for that person.  In FS/FT sources are currently attached to the person instead of the event.  In this case, the event must also be identified in the notes.
                          >
                          > As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories of data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources.  However, you can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create.  (I'm looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!)  In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in the "Notes" field… if you have the missing data.
                          >
                          > If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check the FS Catalog for records from the location of the event.  In the catalog entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library.  Until all of the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is useful.
                          >
                          > Just trying to help.
                          >
                          > Venita
                          >
                          >
                          > On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2<amadori33@...>  wrote:
                          >
                          >> Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome, Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                          >>
                          >> This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                          >>
                          >> You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much with them by that method.
                          >>
                          >> Ann A.
                          >>
                          >> --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar"<stew999@...>  wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> Terry,
                          >>>
                          >>> ...
                          >>>
                          >>>> With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of the Title
                          >>> or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT wasn't
                          >>> perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS source
                          >>> titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                          >>> source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source - delete
                          >>> the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                          >>> amended.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . . . but
                          >>> there are no guarantees.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> ===Stewart
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                          >>> tmason1
                          >>> Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                          >>> To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                          >>> Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree>  Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                          >>> Events
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> Notes:
                          >>> In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you
                          >>> can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                          >>> biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal
                          >>> entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to
                          >>> record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                          >>> deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                          >>>
                          >>> Other Events:
                          >>> Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit
                          >>> Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and
                          >>> Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                          >>> blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land
                          >>> records.
                          >>>
                          >>> Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs,
                          >>> sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                          >>> Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name
                          >>> &  Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                          >>> (Extractions) and Comments.
                          >>>
                          >>> In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings,
                          >>> marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used
                          >>> to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to
                          >>> which sources may be attached.
                          >>>
                          >>> In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                          >>> Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial
                          >>> and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                          >>>
                          >>> Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                          >>> Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record
                          >>> or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to
                          >>> it?
                          >>>
                          >>> Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the
                          >>> title was created by "My Source Box"?
                          >>>
                          >>> (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                          >>> personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree
                          >>> template?
                          >>>
                          >>> (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one
                          >>> would place into NOTES?
                          >>>
                          >>> (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering
                          >>> it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                          >>>
                          >>> (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the
                          >>> data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading
                          >>> information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is
                          >>> placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a
                          >>> source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                          >>> instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about
                          >>> this?
                          >>>
                          >>> To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data
                          >>> entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet
                          >>> been placed into this beta software.
                          >>>
                          >>> Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                          >>> third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other
                          >>> events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I
                          >>> think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                          >>>
                          >>> Terry Mason
                          >>> Clermont FL



                          ------------------------------------

                          or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Terri Jaskolka
                          But there IS a source box link on the image pages (at least for the records I have been using). I have to be signed in to use the images, don t know if that
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 9, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            But there IS a source box link on the image pages (at least for the records
                            I have been using). I have to be signed in to use the images, don't know if
                            that makes a difference because you have to be signed in to use the Source
                            Box as well. :)

                            -Terri J.


                            On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:39 PM, James W Anderson <genealogy248@...>wrote:

                            > About FamilySearch and persistent URLs.
                            >
                            > The image URLs may change, but the plan is to keep the index page URLs,
                            > where you find the indexed data for a record, constant. That way no matter
                            > what happens with the image or to the image's URL, the index will be kept,
                            > and that may explain why no source box link on the image pages.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: singhals <singhals@...>
                            > To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Tuesday, April 9, 2013 6:12 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                            > Events
                            >
                            > Oh Yes! Excellent, Venita.
                            >
                            > I'm VERY tired of "I found it on Ancestry" or "It was at the
                            > LDS site."
                            >
                            > I'm beginning to get hostile about "Ancestry image 4356" too.
                            >
                            > Websites change; some webmasters have way too much free time
                            > and they spend it shuffling directories and subdirectories
                            > around every week. Websites move; aol.com quit hosting
                            > websites, Xoom.com crashed gracelessly; SOME of the data
                            > made it to the archive site with a different URL, but a lot
                            > of data just vanished.
                            >
                            > Website URLs will do in a pinch, but the citation ought to
                            > say be exactly as it would have been if you had seen the
                            > actual census book; after you've got that info as insurance
                            > against future changes cite the website by name and URL if
                            > you want. Just get a whole whale of a lot more specific
                            > than "http://www.ancestry.com"! (g)
                            >
                            > Cheryl
                            >
                            > PS -- oh yeah -- if you MUST cite a website, make sure
                            > you're citing the RIGHT one. I'm being pestered by someone
                            > wanting to know where I got some info he says is on my
                            > website. I can't tell him where I got it because I've never
                            > even seen what he's talking about, let alone put it on a
                            > website!
                            >
                            > Venita wrote:
                            > > Whether a source is created automatically by FS, by a third party
                            > program such as Tree Connect, in your personal database, or using the
                            > template in Source Box, it needs the following to be useful to other
                            > researchers:
                            > >
                            > > 1. Identification of the type of source it is, such as a church record
                            > or a government record. (These are the two creators of primary sources.)
                            > > 2. Physical location of the original document. (NOT the website where
                            > you found the indexed information, or your printed copy of the document)
                            > >
                            > > With that information, any family history researcher in this generation
                            > and future generations will have a very good chance of seeing the same
                            > record that you saw. If any of that information is missing, the chances of
                            > finding the same record are diminished.
                            > >
                            > > After the source is attached to an event, it is very useful to add
                            > notes, such as the direct quote of the data in the record, which applies
                            > only to that event for that person. In FS/FT sources are currently
                            > attached to the person instead of the event. In this case, the event must
                            > also be identified in the notes.
                            > >
                            > > As you are working with FS/FT, you will notice that the two categories
                            > of data above do not always appear in the FS-created sources. However, you
                            > can make sure they appear in the sources you personally create. (I'm
                            > looking forward to the day when the FS-created sources are more complete!)
                            > In the meantime, you can add the missing data in an FS-created source in
                            > the "Notes" field� if you have the missing data.
                            > >
                            > > If you don't know the physical location of the original record, check
                            > the FS Catalog for records from the location of the event. In the catalog
                            > entry, you can usually find the location of the archived records along with
                            > other pertinent data like the date range of the records, and the film
                            > number(s) of the microfilm(s) in the Family History Library. Until all of
                            > the microfilms have been digitized and indexed, knowing the film number is
                            > useful.
                            > >
                            > > Just trying to help.
                            > >
                            > > Venita
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Apr 8, 2013, at 8:05 AM, amadori2<amadori33@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >> Rather than use "Copy" I have been creating all of my sources using the
                            > "Tree Connect" button from http://recordseek.com/ (It works on Chrome,
                            > Firefox and Safari, NOT Internet Explorer.)
                            > >>
                            > >> This allows me to paste in my notes before saving the source and I can
                            > edit the title too. It also preserved the FamilySearch.org URL's when using
                            > it with Family Search sources. I love it, as it saves me time and effort.
                            > >>
                            > >> You can also use the Tree Connect button to upload images of records
                            > but I am waiting to see what FamilySearch does with these before doing much
                            > with them by that method.
                            > >>
                            > >> Ann A.
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart Millar"<stew999@...> wrote:
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Terry,
                            > >>>
                            > >>> ...
                            > >>>
                            > >>>> With regard to your observation of not being able to change any of
                            > the Title
                            > >>> or Citation of a FamilySearch generated source . . . well, I said FT
                            > wasn't
                            > >>> perfect . . . but there is a workaround I use all the time as the FS
                            > source
                            > >>> titles and citations drive me nuts . . . when you have the generated FS
                            > >>> source in your source box - use Copy to create a copy of the source -
                            > delete
                            > >>> the original FS generated source - the copied source can have any field
                            > >>> amended.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> I think we need to be prepared to change . . . it might be better . .
                            > . but
                            > >>> there are no guarantees.
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> ===Stewart
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On
                            > Behalf Of
                            > >>> tmason1
                            > >>> Sent: 07 April 2013 20:55
                            > >>> To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                            > >>> Subject: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree> Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                            > >>> Events
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Notes:
                            > >>> In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where
                            > you
                            > >>> can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most
                            > >>> biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories,
                            > journal
                            > >>> entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place
                            > to
                            > >>> record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists,
                            > >>> deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Other Events:
                            > >>> Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the
                            > "Edit
                            > >>> Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all
                            > Census and
                            > >>> Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS
                            > >>> blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and
                            > Land
                            > >>> records.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Sources cite the location of information. In personal software
                            > programs,
                            > >>> sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source
                            > >>> Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository
                            > Name
                            > >>> & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text
                            > >>> (Extractions) and Comments.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births,
                            > christenings,
                            > >>> marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which
                            > are used
                            > >>> to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records"
                            > event to
                            > >>> which sources may be attached.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital
                            > >>> Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and
                            > Burial
                            > >>> and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other
                            > >>> Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census
                            > record
                            > >>> or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source
                            > to
                            > >>> it?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title
                            > if the
                            > >>> title was created by "My Source Box"?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your
                            > >>> personal software source information into the Family Search - Family
                            > Tree
                            > >>> template?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above
                            > that one
                            > >>> would place into NOTES?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you
                            > entering
                            > >>> it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy
                            > of the
                            > >>> data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about
                            > misleading
                            > >>> information in a sources you cite? In personal software that
                            > evaluation is
                            > >>> placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal
                            > evaluation of a
                            > >>> source should be entered in a field associated with the source document
                            > >>> instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing
                            > about
                            > >>> this?
                            > >>>
                            > >>> To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the
                            > data
                            > >>> entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not
                            > yet
                            > >>> been placed into this beta software.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and
                            > >>> third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and
                            > other
                            > >>> events from personal software programs will be entered into Family
                            > Tree I
                            > >>> think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                            > >>>
                            > >>> Terry Mason
                            > >>> Clermont FL
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • tmason1
                            In personal software programs, if I create an entry for a 1900 U.S. census record I have to click on Add - Other Events or Options then select census and
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 10, 2013
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                              In personal software programs, if I create an entry for a 1900 U.S. census record I have to click on "Add - Other Events" or "Options" then select "census" and then create/select a Source Title for the census. The source identifier to me is the NARA (National Archives and Records Administration) number. The designation for that is "T623" and it is followed by a roll number and then a page number. Ancestry.com is inclined to list the FHL microfilm number. FamilySearch uses something called the GS Film number followed by a Digital Folder Number. Neither accurately identify the NARA number which is the most primary source for the census record.

                              My point for this discussion however, is that into personal software, I can attach the source identifier and my personal extraction of the image and my personal comment (if needed) about information I found in the record.

                              From my software I have synchronized that data into new.FamilySearch and that census information has been brought over into FS - Family Tree and displays in "CUSTOM EVENT". In nFS I could manually add my extraction detail from the "Actual Text" field and my evaluation from the "Comments" field. That information is now in new.FamilySearch but does not display in Family Tree.

                              Family Tree does NOT let me attach the 1900 Census source link, my extraction nor my comment to the "CUSTOM EVENT".

                              New.FamilySearch DID but Family Tree DOES NOT.

                              That sure bothers me; why doesn't it concern any of you?

                              Terry Mason
                              Clermont, FL
                            • tmason1
                              I can cite the Hopewell Friends history, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia and list a URL to google books showing their INCORRECT birthdate for my 4th
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 10, 2013
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                                I can cite the Hopewell Friends history, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia and list a URL to google books showing their INCORRECT birthdate for my 4th great grandfather.

                                That incorrect information was cited by a well referenced secondary publication in 1899 but she listed this ancestor of mine not only by the incorrect birth date but with incorrect parents.

                                A third reference is William Nelson, New Jersey biographical and genealogical notes from the volumes of the New Jersey archives; Originally published: New Jersey Historical Society, 1916. FHL US/CAN Film XXXX. This give my 4th gg-father's correct birth date but incorrectly lists his father's second wife as my 4th great grandmother.

                                Finally in an article in the William & Mary magazine - October 1931 - pg 326 the author/researcher discounts the second reference and correctly gives my relative's correct parents, birth date, wife and 10 children. We have confirmed his accuracy with other records.

                                My question to you is "Where/How do I offer my evaluation comments about the misleading errors found in the above references in the Details in the 'Sources' template in FS - Family Tree?"

                                Terry Mason
                                Clermont FL
                              • Venita
                                My personal procedure, Terry: In my personal database, I only source vital events (i.e. birth, christening, marriage, death, burial) by citing the primary
                                Message 15 of 23 , Apr 10, 2013
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                                  My personal procedure, Terry:

                                  In my personal database, I only "source" vital events (i.e. birth, christening, marriage, death, burial) by citing the primary record for each event as much as possible. I do my best to find the church or government record for each event for each person. I use my program's source template to create a source for a particular parish (for example) and link that source to every event for every person that it applies to. One of my sources is Utah Death Certificates, 1904-1961. There are around 600 people in my database who fall into that group, and I can attach that source to each one of them. When I am able to see a digital image of a document, I can copy the exact words on it and save them in an individual's notes, as well as attach a source citation to the event. For at least my direct line ancestors, I collect digital images of documents and attach them to the person as I do a photo.

                                  Other supporting information goes into the individuals' notes. When I find a census for a family (a secondary source, by the way) I copy the data into the notes for each individual shown in the family, including the year of the census and the location of the family home. When I find a quote in a book (another secondary source) I copy the quote into the notes with a brief source statement at the end of the quote. When I find an obituary (a primary source for death & burial, and secondary for other data) I copy it into the notes followed by a brief statement identifying which newspaper published it. I do the same with a will.

                                  My database currently has 12K+ entries, but there are only 135 master souces in my list. I can easily find the source I need, and occasionally create a new one when necessary. Sources is sources and notes is notes, and the two should not be confused. A source points to the record of a particular event; notes add information or explanations regarding the event.

                                  My database (as of a few months ago) is posted on my website. If you care to have a look, you may go to http://www.venitap.com/Genealogy/WebCards/wc_toc.htm Feel free to click links and snoop around. :-)

                                  Yours,

                                  Venita


                                  On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:16 PM, tmason1 <tmason1@...> wrote:

                                  > I can cite the Hopewell Friends history, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia and list a URL to google books showing their INCORRECT birthdate for my 4th great grandfather.
                                  >
                                  > That incorrect information was cited by a well referenced secondary publication in 1899 but she listed this ancestor of mine not only by the incorrect birth date but with incorrect parents.
                                  >
                                  > A third reference is William Nelson, New Jersey biographical and genealogical notes from the volumes of the New Jersey archives; Originally published: New Jersey Historical Society, 1916. FHL US/CAN Film XXXX. This give my 4th gg-father's correct birth date but incorrectly lists his father's second wife as my 4th great grandmother.
                                  >
                                  > Finally in an article in the William & Mary magazine - October 1931 - pg 326 the author/researcher discounts the second reference and correctly gives my relative's correct parents, birth date, wife and 10 children. We have confirmed his accuracy with other records.
                                  >
                                  > My question to you is "Where/How do I offer my evaluation comments about the misleading errors found in the above references in the Details in the 'Sources' template in FS - Family Tree?"
                                  >
                                  > Terry Mason
                                  > Clermont FL
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • sm99923
                                  Terry/Venita, With the greatest respect I must offer a different view than the procedure advocated by Venita. I mentioned in a previous reply that FT is
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Apr 11, 2013
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                                    Terry/Venita,

                                    With the greatest respect I must offer a different view than the procedure
                                    advocated by Venita.

                                    I mentioned in a previous reply that FT is subtlety edging us away from the
                                    traditional use of "Notes" with its promotion of properly recording our
                                    sources (with any Notes pertaining to each source) and the use of FT
                                    "Stories".

                                    Contrary to Venita's view, my view (and that advocated by the use of FT) is
                                    that all sources for an individual or relationship should be recorded as
                                    sources. Some sources will be related to what are called the "Vital
                                    Information" for an individual - Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death or
                                    Burial . . . and in FT can be so tagged (associated) with these items of
                                    "vital information" (not "events"). Other sources for the individual or
                                    relationships are simply - and accurately - linked/associated with the
                                    individual or relationship - there is no need for the creation of "dummy
                                    events" in order to link a source to it.

                                    So I would recommend that the examples of census, book and obituary sources
                                    that Venita quotes as adding to her "Notes" is not a practice advised in the
                                    use of FT (to which you might add military, school, business, tax, wills
                                    etc. etc.) - all of which whether primary or secondary sources are expected
                                    to be added to FT as sources.

                                    FT is really breaking up the "old" concept of "Notes" and substituting a
                                    better use of defining all sources plus the FT facilities for Stories and
                                    Photos.

                                    In FT as each source is added - or later edited - there is a "Notes"
                                    facility for each source - it is in this "Notes" for each source that you
                                    can record your assessment of each source and any particular judgement you
                                    have made of the source.

                                    I know that various FH software products offer the option to record the
                                    "Actual Text" of the source . . . something I used extensively before the
                                    option became available to attach an image of the source document . . .
                                    after which, with the actual document image available, I considered any
                                    added transcription of the source document to be irrelevant and so stopped
                                    adding in the "Actual Text" of the source document. If there was anything in
                                    the source document that was either indistinct or could be possibly
                                    transcribed with differing spelling then such issues are better described in
                                    the source "Notes" than adding some "actual text" with my particular
                                    interpretation of the text.

                                    In summary - the answer to . . . "Where/How do I offer my evaluation
                                    comments about the misleading errors found in the above references in the
                                    Details in the 'Sources' template in FS - Family Tree?"

                                    . . . is in the "Notes" box under the Details for each
                                    source.

                                    You might also consider starting a "Discussion" about what you consider the
                                    errors in particular sources for any individual that may more prominently
                                    attract the attention of any other researcher who may feel inclined to act
                                    on what you have considered to be inaccurate data within the source.

                                    ===Stewart




                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                    Venita
                                    Sent: 11 April 2013 01:52
                                    To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                                    Events

                                    My personal procedure, Terry:

                                    In my personal database, I only "source" vital events (i.e. birth,
                                    christening, marriage, death, burial) by citing the primary record for each
                                    event as much as possible. I do my best to find the church or government
                                    record for each event for each person. I use my program's source template
                                    to create a source for a particular parish (for example) and link that
                                    source to every event for every person that it applies to. One of my
                                    sources is Utah Death Certificates, 1904-1961. There are around 600 people
                                    in my database who fall into that group, and I can attach that source to
                                    each one of them. When I am able to see a digital image of a document, I
                                    can copy the exact words on it and save them in an individual's notes, as
                                    well as attach a source citation to the event. For at least my direct line
                                    ancestors, I collect digital images of documents and attach them to the
                                    person as I do a photo.

                                    Other supporting information goes into the individuals' notes. When I find
                                    a census for a family (a secondary source, by the way) I copy the data into
                                    the notes for each individual shown in the family, including the year of the
                                    census and the location of the family home. When I find a quote in a book
                                    (another secondary source) I copy the quote into the notes with a brief
                                    source statement at the end of the quote. When I find an obituary (a
                                    primary source for death & burial, and secondary for other data) I copy it
                                    into the notes followed by a brief statement identifying which newspaper
                                    published it. I do the same with a will.

                                    My database currently has 12K+ entries, but there are only 135 master souces
                                    in my list. I can easily find the source I need, and occasionally create a
                                    new one when necessary. Sources is sources and notes is notes, and the two
                                    should not be confused. A source points to the record of a particular
                                    event; notes add information or explanations regarding the event.

                                    My database (as of a few months ago) is posted on my website. If you care
                                    to have a look, you may go to
                                    http://www.venitap.com/Genealogy/WebCards/wc_toc.htm Feel free to click
                                    links and snoop around. :-)

                                    Yours,

                                    Venita


                                    On Apr 10, 2013, at 4:16 PM, tmason1 <tmason1@...> wrote:

                                    > I can cite the Hopewell Friends history, 1734-1934, Frederick County,
                                    Virginia and list a URL to google books showing their INCORRECT birthdate
                                    for my 4th great grandfather.
                                    >
                                    > That incorrect information was cited by a well referenced secondary
                                    publication in 1899 but she listed this ancestor of mine not only by the
                                    incorrect birth date but with incorrect parents.
                                    >
                                    > A third reference is William Nelson, New Jersey biographical and
                                    genealogical notes from the volumes of the New Jersey archives; Originally
                                    published: New Jersey Historical Society, 1916. FHL US/CAN Film XXXX. This
                                    give my 4th gg-father's correct birth date but incorrectly lists his
                                    father's second wife as my 4th great grandmother.
                                    >
                                    > Finally in an article in the William & Mary magazine - October 1931 - pg
                                    326 the author/researcher discounts the second reference and correctly gives
                                    my relative's correct parents, birth date, wife and 10 children. We have
                                    confirmed his accuracy with other records.
                                    >
                                    > My question to you is "Where/How do I offer my evaluation comments about
                                    the misleading errors found in the above references in the Details in the
                                    'Sources' template in FS - Family Tree?"
                                    >
                                    > Terry Mason
                                    > Clermont FL
                                    >
                                    >



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------------------------------

                                    or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroupsYahoo! Groups Links
                                  • Robert Givens
                                    The source feature at family search is not really a source but more correctly a citation for a source. It isn t intended to be a full feature source
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Apr 11, 2013
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                                      The "source" feature at family search is not really a source but more correctly a "citation" for a source. It isn't intended to be a full feature source because the general public has shown they won't embrace the cumbersome process of making a full blown source for records. For every one of us who is an accomplished genealogist there are hundreds and thousands of potential users who would be, and are, turned off by a complex process of creating a full blown source. This feature isn't going to change so we need to use what we have to the fullest.
                                      Sources in Family tree have 5 fields you can use to tailor a citation the way you want it.
                                      Title - self explanatory - What is it and for whom
                                      Link to Web page - if applicable - use it
                                      Where Record is Found - This is where you will put most of those true Source fields.
                                      Notes - this can be for a transcription but can also be for analysis of the source
                                      Reason this source is attached - this field too can be used creatively as you see fit. Most of the comments about where can we put this or that can go here or in Notes.

                                      You know the real issue is, in my eyes, is Family Tree going to be the repository of all your research or is it going to be 1. A tool for submitting names to the temple for LDS members, 2. A correct lineage of our LDS members ancestry with correct ordinances attached (that correct record worthy of all acceptation), 3. plus a place for other interested people to place their ancestry.

                                      The Brethren (and they drive this project) want the system to be engaging to the novice so IMHO it will never fully satisfy the professional genealogist among us - but it isn't intended to to that. If the Church is going to reach out beyond the 2.5% of the dedicated genealogists a less cumbersome system has to be in place.

                                      My goal is to clean up my pedigree, post what is needed to identify my ancestors and other relatives, post some of my pictures and stories to grab the interest of my grandchildren but above everything else - keep submitting those of my family that have been properly identified for their temple ordinances. Anything beyond that to me is fluff in so far as Family Search Family Tree is concerned. My RootsMagic data base has all the extra sources and notes that aren't absolutely needed on Family Tree and in my data base it isn't going to be tampered with by the public.

                                      Just my opinions.
                                      Bob Givens

                                      --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "tmason1" <tmason1@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Notes:
                                      > In personal software programs a "notes" window is a blank field where you can enter almost anything you know about a person or marriage. Most biographical data would including such things as anecdotes, stories, journal entries, and quotes by the individual. The notes field is also a place to record facts such as places where a person has lived, passenger lists, deeds, city directory entries and obituaries.
                                      >
                                      > Other Events:
                                      > Personal software programs allow users to place "Other Events" on the "Edit Individual" screen. I have used this option consistently for all Census and Military records. Popular Other Events might be Journal entries, LDS blessings, Cremation, Mission, Probate records (including wills) and Land records.
                                      >
                                      > Sources cite the location of information. In personal software programs, sources contain the following "bibliography" data entry fields: Source Title, Author, Publication Information, Source/Call Number, Repository Name & Address, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date of Entry, plus Actual Text (Extractions) and Comments.
                                      >
                                      > In personal software - SOURCES may be connected to births, christenings, marriages, deaths, burials and also to all the "Other Events" which are used to document a person's identity. There is even a "General Records" event to which sources may be attached.
                                      >
                                      > In contrast in FS - FAMILY TREE all sources connect only to the Vital Information fields of: Name, Gender, Birth, Christening, Death and Burial and the connection is only done by using a "Tag" option.
                                      >
                                      > Have you noticed that FS - Family Tree software can contain "Other Information" fields used to identify a relationship, such as a census record or a will, but that there is no means of linking or attaching a source to it?
                                      >
                                      > Also have you noticed that it seems we can not edit the Source Title if the title was created by "My Source Box"?
                                      >
                                      > (1) Are you having difficulty transferring all the details from your personal software source information into the Family Search - Family Tree template?
                                      >
                                      > (2) What are you doing with all the information that I listed above that one would place into NOTES?
                                      >
                                      > (3) If you have source documentation for OTHER EVENTS, how are you entering it into Family Tree and tagging them?
                                      >
                                      > (4) There is no place to add a comment about the quality or accuracy of the data found within a source. What are you doing to comment about misleading information in a sources you cite? In personal software that evaluation is placed in the "Comment" field attached to a source. Personal evaluation of a source should be entered in a field associated with the source document instead of the Family Tree "Discussions" field. What are you doing about this?
                                      >
                                      > To me it seems premature to release Family Tree to the public when the data entry fields that are needed to effectively identify a person have not yet been placed into this beta software.
                                      >
                                      > Until sources and notes are brought over from new.FamilySearch and third-party software shows us how our source documentation, notes and other events from personal software programs will be entered into Family Tree I think we are running before the Family Tree software is ready.
                                      >
                                      > Terry Mason
                                      > Clermont FL
                                      >
                                    • sm99923
                                      Terry, First of all . . . the source recording in nFS was a pathetic joke . . . totally inadequate and now thoroughly disowned in FT . . . personally, I
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Apr 11, 2013
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                                        Terry,



                                        First of all . . . the source recording in nFS was a pathetic joke . . .
                                        totally inadequate and now thoroughly disowned in FT . . . personally, I
                                        cannot see how they could ever transfer sources from nFS to FT.



                                        Better to start from scratch in FT.



                                        As in all my other replies on this topic . . . you need to forget about
                                        attaching sources to any form of "invented" event . . . sources are for a
                                        person or relationship.



                                        You have correctly identified the key to any source as the source citation.



                                        FS does itself no favours by - in my view - in not producing good source
                                        citations; a good source citation should be readable and make sense to the
                                        reader - FS usually fail on both counts.



                                        A source citation should tell . . . What the Source is / Indication of
                                        Quality / Where the source record can be found

                                        (if taken from a
                                        web site it should additionally state the origin for the web record and the
                                        full citation of the originating body)



                                        For many FS sources finding the originating body requires further
                                        investigation beyond the "presenting" FS source page - usually following up
                                        in the catalogue to trace any source film number quoted on the FS Source
                                        page.



                                        So a typical FS source may be given a citation like:



                                        Baptism: James Warren 1832, familysearch.org, Transcription, FHL Film
                                        1279361; citing - C of E Parish Registers for Cliffe-Pypard, 1576-1874,
                                        Wiltshire County Record Office



                                        As opposed to the FS generated citation: "England, Births and Christenings,
                                        1538-1975," index, FamilySearch
                                        (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J9FS-6XF : accessed 11 Apr 2013),
                                        James Warren, 16 Mar 1832.

                                        (Is it a birth or christening - the film
                                        number details make clear it is a baptism; the url is repeated in the url
                                        box; the date accessed has no value; only by following up the source film
                                        number can the originating
                                        source be determined)

                                        As noted in a previous post amending such a FS generated source requires the
                                        FS source to be copied then deleted - the copied source can have any field
                                        amended to suit.

                                        An added-in source could have a citation like:

                                        Family of William & Mary Strange 1891 Census
                                        England, Digital Copy, ancestry.co.uk; citing UK National Archives RG12,
                                        Piece 2658, Folio 34, Page 12

                                        (in this case the url would be to a MS SkyDrive pdf
                                        copy of the census page . . . my personal method for storing the digitised
                                        copies of source material - the reader may not have access to Ancestry, but
                                        with the National Archives citation can look for the
                                        census page anywhere else.)

                                        The key to any good citation is that it understandable by the (normal -
                                        regular) reader . . . not always the case when following particular academic
                                        standards for source citations . . . feel free to make it up to satisfy
                                        yourself.

                                        In summary . . . your question . . . "Family Tree does NOT let me attach the
                                        1900 Census source link, my extraction nor my comment to the "CUSTOM EVENT".

                                        Forget all usage of any form of custom event . . . there are no events in FT
                                        . . . sources are only attached to persons or relationships.

                                        With digital images available . . . transcriptions of actual text are
                                        considered irrelevant . . . any special comments about difficult to read
                                        words can be put in the "Notes" box of any source. The "Notes" box for any
                                        source can be used to record any comments or qualification you have about
                                        the source.

                                        Not sure what you mean by "Family Tree does NOT let me attach the 1900
                                        Census source link . . " . . . the only "source link" I can think of is the
                                        web url to where a source document can be found - and FT does allow you to
                                        this . . . . if creating a source where the source came from commercial
                                        provider (like Ancestry) it would be irrelevant to insert the ancestry url
                                        as that would only be usable by anyone with an ancestry subscription .. . .
                                        . FT has given us to understand it is in the process of developing storage
                                        for images of source documents which we can upload in the same manner as
                                        photos but also be able to attach to our sources . . . however the facility
                                        does exist now for you to use any other "cloud" provider to store your
                                        digitised documents (I use MS SkyDrive) which can provide a unique url for
                                        each source document which can be used in the source definition.

                                        I hope this helps . . . in some wayJ

                                        ===Stewart















                                        From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                        tmason1
                                        Sent: 10 April 2013 22:42
                                        To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [FHCNET] Re: FS - Family Tree > Entering Sources, Notes and Other
                                        Events





                                        In personal software programs, if I create an entry for a 1900 U.S. census
                                        record I have to click on "Add - Other Events" or "Options" then select
                                        "census" and then create/select a Source Title for the census. The source
                                        identifier to me is the NARA (National Archives and Records Administration)
                                        number. The designation for that is "T623" and it is followed by a roll
                                        number and then a page number. Ancestry.com is inclined to list the FHL
                                        microfilm number. FamilySearch uses something called the GS Film number
                                        followed by a Digital Folder Number. Neither accurately identify the NARA
                                        number which is the most primary source for the census record.

                                        My point for this discussion however, is that into personal software, I can
                                        attach the source identifier and my personal extraction of the image and my
                                        personal comment (if needed) about information I found in the record.

                                        From my software I have synchronized that data into new.FamilySearch and
                                        that census information has been brought over into FS - Family Tree and
                                        displays in "CUSTOM EVENT". In nFS I could manually add my extraction detail
                                        from the "Actual Text" field and my evaluation from the "Comments" field.
                                        That information is now in new.FamilySearch but does not display in Family
                                        Tree.

                                        Family Tree does NOT let me attach the 1900 Census source link, my
                                        extraction nor my comment to the "CUSTOM EVENT".

                                        New.FamilySearch DID but Family Tree DOES NOT.

                                        That sure bothers me; why doesn't it concern any of you?

                                        Terry Mason
                                        Clermont, FL





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • tmason1
                                        Venita, You have a nice personal web site. You are getting good use from your personal software program. I too have a nice personal web site. My question was,
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Apr 11, 2013
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                                          Venita,

                                          You have a nice personal web site. You are getting good use from your personal software program. I too have a nice personal web site.

                                          My question was, "In FS - Family Tree, where does one make evaluation type of comments about misleading errors found in the source Notes?"

                                          I don't think you answered my question.

                                          I do not think the Family Tree software is designed to synchronize with personal software programs.

                                          Terry Mason
                                          Clermont, FL
                                        • tmason1
                                          Good use of logic in stating the inadequacy of the source features in Family Tree. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort. If you think Family
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Apr 11, 2013
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                                            Good use of logic in stating the inadequacy of the source features in Family Tree. Thank you for taking the time and making the effort.

                                            If you think Family Tree is inadequate then are you resolved to letting it force conforming to something that less than useful. Are you suggesting that a good researcher or librarian would not use it?

                                            When you suggest starting over with Family Tree, I don't think any of us want to discard the last 130 years of temple record submissions. The combined records and IOUS information of new.FamilySearch have left us with a real mess and it is possible that the less than inadequate source entry fields means that Family Tree will not do the job as it is currently designed either.

                                            Sure, make it simple for the novice, but the department needs to provide the means for detail sourcing and upward compatability with personal software programs. If they do not, then Family Tree is nothing more that a replacement for the Temple Ready program.

                                            Terry Mason

                                            --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, <stew999@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > First of all . . . the source recording in nFS was a pathetic joke . . .
                                            > totally inadequate and now thoroughly disowned in FT . . . personally, I
                                            > cannot see how they could ever transfer sources from nFS to FT.
                                            >
                                            > Better to start from scratch in FT.
                                            >
                                            > As in all my other replies on this topic . . . you need to forget about
                                            > attaching sources to any form of "invented" event . . . sources are for a
                                            > person or relationship.
                                            >
                                            > You have correctly identified the key to any source as the source citation.
                                            >
                                            > FS does itself no favours by - in my view - in not producing good source
                                            > citations; a good source citation should be readable and make sense to the
                                            > reader - FS usually fail on both counts.
                                            >
                                            > A source citation should tell . . . What the Source is / Indication of
                                            > Quality / Where the source record can be found taken from a
                                            > web site it should additionally state the origin for the web record and the
                                            > full citation of the originating body)
                                            >
                                            > For many FS sources finding the originating body requires further
                                            > investigation beyond the "presenting" FS source page - usually following up
                                            > in the catalogue to trace any source film number quoted on the FS Source
                                            > page.
                                            >
                                            > So a typical FS source may be given a citation like:
                                            >
                                            > Baptism: James Warren 1832, familysearch.org, Transcription, FHL Film
                                            > 1279361; citing - C of E Parish Registers for Cliffe-Pypard, 1576-1874,
                                            > Wiltshire County Record Office
                                            >
                                            > As opposed to the FS generated citation: "England, Births and Christenings,
                                            > 1538-1975," index, FamilySearch
                                            > (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J9FS-6XF : accessed 11 Apr 2013),
                                            > James Warren, 16 Mar 1832.
                                            >
                                            >(Is it a birth or christening - the film
                                            > number details make clear it is a baptism; the url is repeated in the url
                                            > box; the date accessed has no value; only by following up the source film
                                            > number can the originating
                                            > source be determined)
                                            >
                                            > As noted in a previous post amending such a FS generated source requires the
                                            > FS source to be copied then deleted - the copied source can have any field
                                            > amended to suit.
                                            >
                                            > An added-in source could have a citation like:
                                            >
                                            >Family of William & Mary Strange 1891 Census
                                            > England, Digital Copy, ancestry.co.uk; citing UK National Archives RG12,
                                            > Piece 2658, Folio 34, Page 12
                                            >
                                            >(in this case the url would be to a MS SkyDrive pdf
                                            > copy of the census page . . . my personal method for storing the digitised
                                            > copies of source material - the reader may not have access to Ancestry, but
                                            > with the National Archives citation can look for the
                                            > census page anywhere else.)
                                            >
                                            > The key to any good citation is that it understandable by the (normal -
                                            > regular) reader . . . not always the case when following particular academic
                                            > standards for source citations . . . feel free to make it up to satisfy
                                            > yourself.
                                            >
                                            > In summary . . . your question . . . "Family Tree does NOT let me attach the
                                            > 1900 Census source link, my extraction nor my comment to the "CUSTOM EVENT".
                                            >
                                            > Forget all usage of any form of custom event . . . there are no events in FT
                                            > . . . sources are only attached to persons or relationships.
                                            >
                                            > With digital images available . . . transcriptions of actual text are
                                            > considered irrelevant . . . any special comments about difficult to read
                                            > words can be put in the "Notes" box of any source. The "Notes" box for any
                                            > source can be used to record any comments or qualification you have about
                                            > the source.
                                            >
                                            > Not sure what you mean by "Family Tree does NOT let me attach the 1900
                                            > Census source link . . " . . . the only "source link" I can think of is the
                                            > web url to where a source document can be found - and FT does allow you to
                                            > this . . . . if creating a source where the source came from commercial
                                            > provider (like Ancestry) it would be irrelevant to insert the ancestry url
                                            > as that would only be usable by anyone with an ancestry subscription .. . .
                                            > . FT has given us to understand it is in the process of developing storage
                                            > for images of source documents which we can upload in the same manner as
                                            > photos but also be able to attach to our sources . . . however the facility
                                            > does exist now for you to use any other "cloud" provider to store your
                                            > digitised documents (I use MS SkyDrive) which can provide a unique url for
                                            > each source document which can be used in the source definition.
                                            >
                                            > I hope this helps . . . in some way
                                            >
                                            > ===Stewart
                                          • Venita
                                            Hi Terry, Sorry about missing that point. There are two places you can put explanatory information. The first one is in the notes of a vital record. For
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Apr 12, 2013
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                                              Hi Terry,

                                              Sorry about missing that point.

                                              There are two places you can put explanatory information. The first one is in the notes of a vital record. For example, if the information is in regard to the name, click the name, then click "Edit." Put your comments in the "Reason This Information is Correct" field. (Of course, the procedure would be the same for each bit of vital information.)

                                              The other place is in the source citation itself, even if it's a FS-created source. In an FS-created source, before you click "Attach", click the title, then "View." The source will open on another page, and you will see a "Notes" field at the bottom. Click "Add" and Bob's your Uncle! Save, attach, and remove from your SB.

                                              Personally, I would put the explanation in both places. Your comment won't be obvious on the person's page, but if someone is curious enough to open the details of the vital information, they will see the note you attached to the name/event, and the source you attached and tagged, including the note you added to the source.

                                              I hope this helps!

                                              Yours,

                                              Venita



                                              On Apr 11, 2013, at 9:00 PM, tmason1 <tmason1@...> wrote:

                                              > Venita,
                                              >
                                              > You have a nice personal web site. You are getting good use from your personal software program. I too have a nice personal web site.
                                              >
                                              > My question was, "In FS - Family Tree, where does one make evaluation type of comments about misleading errors found in the source Notes?"
                                              >
                                              > I don't think you answered my question.
                                              >
                                              > I do not think the Family Tree software is designed to synchronize with personal software programs.
                                              >
                                              > Terry Mason
                                              > Clermont, FL
                                              >
                                              >



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • tmason1
                                              ... Perhaps you could create this in an actual PID number on Family Tree and the give us a reference so we could look at it.
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Apr 14, 2013
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                                                --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, Venita <venitar@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > The other place is in the source citation itself, even if it's a FS-created source. In an FS-created source, before you click "Attach", click the title, then "View." The source will open on another page, and you will see a "Notes" field at the bottom. Click "Add" and Bob's your Uncle! Save, attach, and remove from your SB.

                                                Perhaps you could create this in an actual PID number on Family Tree and the give us a reference so we could look at it.
                                              • tmason1
                                                Currently there is not a possibility for synchrony between the source entry fields in personal 3rd party software programs and the templates provided for data
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Apr 14, 2013
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                                                  Currently there is not a possibility for synchrony between the source entry fields in personal 3rd party software programs and the templates provided for data entry in Family Tree.

                                                  The following TWO (2) modifications to Family Tree are needed:
                                                  (1) A COMMENTS field following Source Notes and
                                                  (2) being able to document "Other Information" with Sources.

                                                  Have any of you ever opened the Family Tree "Other Information" field and clicked on the "+Add" and found that you can add the following: Alternate Name / Stillborn, Bar Mitzvah, Bat Mitzvah, Military Service, Naturalization, Residence, Affiliation, Religious Affiliation, Title of Nobility, Occupation, Cremation, Custom Event / Caste Name, Clan Name, National Identification, National Origin, Physical Description, Race, Tribe Name, Custom Fact? If you did then you might notice there is no way to add a source to it like you could in new.FamilySearch.

                                                  So since Family Tree is in beta test the two modification could be made. Currently the following five (5) Family Tree SOURCE FIELDS are:

                                                  1) SOURCE TITLE >

                                                  2) Web page URL >

                                                  3) CITATION >
                                                  [This is the same as information as in new.FamilySearch Source Type when combined with nFS Source detail. (Includes Author, Publication Information, Repository, Call Number, Film/Volume/Page Number, Date record was made)]

                                                  4) Describe the Record - NOTES >
                                                  [This is the same as "Actual Text" in nFS. (This is the weakest feature of the nFS source entry process.)]

                                                  5) REASON THIS SOURCE IS ATTACHED >


                                                  MODIFICATION ONE: The one Family Tree entry field missing in Create or edit a Source is a COMMENT field following the Notes field. There is one in nFS and it is in personal software programs. It is needed in Family Tree to make the Source fields synchrony compatible.

                                                  It is NOT appropriate to place COMMENTS in the "Discussion field" because that is detached from the Source. Discussions work like social networking sites - they are NOT a place to put evaluations or comments about the Source "Notes".

                                                  Could the Comments be placed in the "Reason This Information is Attached" field? Perhaps - IF we used a tag like reference in our Notes section which indicated that something was in error or see comment below, etc.


                                                  MODIFICATION TWO: Family Tree does not allow attaching SOURCES to "+Add" OTHER INFORMATION fields in Family Tree. If this expanded option was added to Family Tree then the EVENT or FACT "NOTES" that are currently entered in new.FamilySearch can be placed there.

                                                  Add these two modifications and make Family Tree compatable with personal software programs.

                                                  Terry Mason
                                                  Clermont FL

                                                  P.S. Wonder when and where the general NOTES already in new.FamilySearch will be? Hope to see them sooner than later.

                                                  Also we have been promised that IMAGES of documentation will be available in the same way that the PHOTOS options is designed for the person in Family Tree. I hope that all scrapbook images from our personal computers that our personal software point to, can be uploaded to a secure Family Search site and that our pointers in personal software can be redirected to URLs on the permanent FS locations.
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