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  • maxine nelson
    I have a question. Someone sent me a manuscript/document listing seven generations of my husband s ancestor. It is well written and documented (and some of it
    Message 1 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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      I have a question. Someone sent me a manuscript/document listing seven
      generations of my husband's ancestor. It is well written and documented
      (and some of it I suspect was obtained from me in the first place.) I
      know I can't submit the generations now living, and I can submit the
      earlier generations which includes my husband' mother, grnother,
      gg-gmother, etc. But where is the dividing line? Which of their
      descendants can I properly submit? I don't want to offend anyone by
      submitting 'their' close relatives or violate the law of privacy.
      Maybe cutoff date of born 110 years ago and/or has a death date? I
      am comfortable with that. Children born starting in 1910 are probably
      too modern for me to submit unless they are close relatives?
      I don't want to offend anybody, but I don't want to leave anyone
      out. I have found quite a few people that are 'cousins' from a common
      ancestor.
      I have found a few e-mail addresses I sent to for questions I had.
      No replies yet.
      Thanks.
      Maxine in NW Kansas
    • Larry Jamison
      We received notice this morning that the Denver Temple District will go live with New Family Search in about 4 months. Becky Jamison Canon City, CO
      Message 2 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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        We received notice this morning that the Denver Temple District will go live
        with New Family Search in about 4 months.
        Becky Jamison
        Canon City, CO
      • elliephantmommy
        I ve wondered that myself as I have been led to do a lot of descendancy research. I loved reading about it in the April 2007 Ensign. One of the things that I
        Message 3 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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          I've wondered that myself as I have been led to do a lot of descendancy
          research. I loved reading about it in the April 2007 Ensign. One of the
          things that I love about nFS is that when the generations get recent I
          can "submit" the information on there and just leave it for closer
          relatives to find to do the temple work. Some families I've felt
          prompted to do the work for myself (following the 95 year rule, of
          course) or release it to the general temple pool, but most I don't. I
          have often felt to see to it that the work is done for couples that I
          know didn't have any living descendents.
        • Jacob Edwards
          The answer is found in the NFS user s guide. Ordinances That You Can Do Church members are responsible to provide temple ordinances for the following
          Message 4 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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            The answer is found in the NFS user's guide.

            Ordinances That You Can Do
            Church members are responsible to provide temple ordinances for the following
            individuals who have been deceased at least one year:
            • Immediate family.
            • Direct-line ancestors (parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. and their families).
            Church members may also provide temple ordinances for the following individuals who
            have been deceased at least one year:
            • Biological, adoptive, and foster family lines connected to your family.
            • Collateral family lines (uncles, aunts, cousins, and their families).
            • Their own descendants.
            • Descendants of direct-line ancestors and their families.
            • “Possible ancestors,” meaning individuals who have a probable family relationship
            that cannot be verified because the records are inadequate, such as those who have
            the same last names and resided in the same areas as known ancestors.
            • Individuals with whom they have shared a friendship. (Please obtain permission from
            the closest living relative, as explained in “Other Policies” on page 183. Remember
            that your primary responsibility is your own ancestors and family.)
            Please do not submit individuals who are not related to you, including names of celebrities
            or famous people, or those gathered from unapproved extraction projects, such as Jewish
            Holocaust victims.
            Other Policies
            Generally, you may perform temple ordinances for deceased persons one year or more
            after the date of death without regard to the person’s worthiness or cause of death. If
            you have questions, please contact your bishop or branch president.
            © 2007, 2008 IRI 183
            Before you provide ordinances for someone who was born within the last 95 years, please
            get permission from the closest living relative. The closest living relatives are, in this
            order: spouse, then children, then parents, then siblings.
            Sequence of Ordinances
            Please perform temple ordinances in the correct sequence. This is as follows:
            • Baptism
            • Confirmation
            • Ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood for males
            • Initiatory ordinances
            • Endowment
            • Sealing of a husband and wife and sealing of children to parents (if possible.) Whenever
            possible, parents should be sealed to each other before their children are sealed to
            them.
            Although vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid, they become effective
            only after the prerequisite ordinances are completed.
            Ordinances That May Not Be Needed
            FamilySearch tells you when ordinances are not needed, such as in these situations:
            • Children who are born after their mother has been sealed to a husband in a temple
            are born in the covenant of that sealing. They do not need to receive the ordinance
            of sealing to parents.
            • Temple ordinances are not performed for stillborn children.
            • No baptism or endowment is performed for a child who died before age eight. Only
            sealings to parents are performed for such children. If the child was sealed to parents
            while he or she was living, or if the child was born in the covenant, no vicarious
            ordinances are performed.
            Sealing Couples with Undocumented Marriages
            You may have a deceased couple sealed to each other if they lived together as husband
            and wife, even if the marriage cannot be documented. You can use FamilySearch to
            prepare these names for temple ordinances without any other approval process.
            Deceased Women Married More Than Once
            You may have a deceased woman sealed to all men to whom she was legally married
            during her life. However, if she was sealed to a husband during her life, all her husbands
            must be deceased before she may be sealed to a husband to whom she was not sealed
            during life.
            Deceased Persons Who Had Mental Disabilities
            Temple ordinances for deceased persons who had mental disabilities are performed the
            same as for other deceased persons.
            184 © 2007, 2008 IRI
            Persons Who Are Presumed Dead
            You may have temple ordinances performed for a person who is presumed dead after
            10 years have passed since the time of the presumed death. This policy applies to (1)
            persons who are missing in action, are lost at sea, or have been declared legally dead;
            and (2) persons who disappeared under circumstances where death is apparent but no
            body has been recovered.
            In all other cases of missing persons, temple ordinances may not be performed until 110
            years have passed from the time of the person’s birth.
            Other Policies
            Please see your bishop for information about the following:
            • Temple ordinances involving living people.
            • Temple ordinances to seal the living to the dead.
            • Any policies not covered above.


            maxine nelson <mmnelson@...> wrote:
            I have a question. Someone sent me a manuscript/document listing seven
            generations of my husband's ancestor. It is well written and documented
            (and some of it I suspect was obtained from me in the first place.) I
            know I can't submit the generations now living, and I can submit the
            earlier generations which includes my husband' mother, grnother,
            gg-gmother, etc. But where is the dividing line? Which of their
            descendants can I properly submit? I don't want to offend anyone by
            submitting 'their' close relatives or violate the law of privacy.
            Maybe cutoff date of born 110 years ago and/or has a death date? I
            am comfortable with that. Children born starting in 1910 are probably
            too modern for me to submit unless they are close relatives?
            I don't want to offend anybody, but I don't want to leave anyone
            out. I have found quite a few people that are 'cousins' from a common
            ancestor.
            I have found a few e-mail addresses I sent to for questions I had.
            No replies yet.
            Thanks.
            Maxine in NW Kansas






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • taffysmom2
            I was recently contacted by a gentleman who shares a common ancestor with me 6 generations back. He saw a posting of mine on a public website where I shared
            Message 5 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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              I was recently contacted by a gentleman who shares a common ancestor
              with me 6 generations back. He saw a posting of mine on a public
              website where I shared information about my side of the family that
              came to the US in the mid-1800s. His relative emigrated to
              Australia, where his family now lives. He has freely shared
              information with me and I with him as we try to trace the family back
              another generation.

              Today he sent me a gedcom with all his research on the family well
              documented in Notes. Some of the documentation is my material sent
              to him, but most is his or his family's own research. He has been
              able to provide me answers to many of my own questions. It is
              wonderful. Here is my dilemma: In the last email with the gedcom
              attachment he said this, "Please don't upload to the net. It is
              criminal how those guys take it then sell it!"

              I have never uploaded any gedcoms to public websites EXCEPT for NFS.
              I have no intention of uploading his gedcom anywhere (so please don't
              start posting all the reasons not to upload a gedcom because of
              duplication, etc.). I was planning to add to my PAF file the family
              information that I don't already have after checking his sources. I
              was then intended to submit the family names for temple
              ordinances like I have for the rest of the family I have researched.
              They all fall properly into the guidelines posted in the NFS user's
              guide. Entering them into NFS, however, seems to be doing
              just what he asked me not to do.

              I've never before thought of it that way. I am the only member of
              the church working on this line (as far as I know). I've never
              thought before of my temple submissions going into the public
              domain. When NFS goes public in a few years all the work will be
              linked and sources and notes will be available as well. While that
              is great as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid this gentleman and his
              family might not feel the same way.

              I've never told any of my internet contacts I was LDS and doing
              family history research with the goal of submitting family names for
              temple ordinances. I admit I am afraid the well will dry up, and I
              will be cut off from future correspondence and vital information.
              How do the rest of you handle these kinds of situations? I don't
              want to offend nor betray his trust.

              --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Edwards <jdaddy3@...> wrote:
              >
              > The answer is found in the NFS user's guide.
              >
              > Ordinances That You Can Do etc...
              >
              >
              > maxine nelson <mmnelson@...> wrote:
              > I have a question. Someone sent me a manuscript/document
              listing seven
              > generations of my husband's ancestor. It is well written and
              documented
              > (and some of it I suspect was obtained from me in the first place.)
              I
              > know I can't submit the generations now living, and I can submit
              the
              > earlier generations which includes my husband' mother, grnother,
              > gg-gmother, etc. But where is the dividing line? Which of their
              > descendants can I properly submit? I don't want to offend anyone by
              > submitting 'their' close relatives or violate the law of privacy.
              > Maybe cutoff date of born 110 years ago and/or has a death date? I
              > am comfortable with that. Children born starting in 1910 are
              probably
              > too modern for me to submit unless they are close relatives?
              > I don't want to offend anybody, but I don't want to leave anyone
              > out. I have found quite a few people that are 'cousins' from a
              common
              > ancestor.
              > I have found a few e-mail addresses I sent to for questions I had.
              > No replies yet.
              > Thanks.
              > Maxine in NW Kansas
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Tom Kemp
              You could ask him - pointing out that the nFS is a free site - and the content entered there is not sold. Suggest that it is convenient, easily found way to
              Message 6 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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                You could ask him - pointing out that the nFS is a free site - and the
                content entered there is not sold.
                Suggest that it is convenient, easily found way to preserve the
                information for the current and future generations.

                You also will find a way to bring up religion, break the ice and let
                him know that you are LDS.
                I have found that mentioning that the kids are attending BYU - going
                on a mission - or reference to going to the Church picnic etc. are
                ways to bring it up in a comfortable, conversational way.

                All the best,
                Tom


                On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 10:39 PM, taffysmom2 <yucaipa@...> wrote:
                >
                > I was recently contacted by a gentleman who shares a common ancestor
                > with me 6 generations back. He saw a posting of mine on a public
                > website where I shared information about my side of the family that
                > came to the US in the mid-1800s. His relative emigrated to
                > Australia, where his family now lives. He has freely shared
                > information with me and I with him as we try to trace the family back
                > another generation.
                >
                > Today he sent me a gedcom with all his research on the family well
                > documented in Notes. Some of the documentation is my material sent
                > to him, but most is his or his family's own research. He has been
                > able to provide me answers to many of my own questions. It is
                > wonderful. Here is my dilemma: In the last email with the gedcom
                > attachment he said this, "Please don't upload to the net. It is
                > criminal how those guys take it then sell it!"
                >
                > I have never uploaded any gedcoms to public websites EXCEPT for NFS.
                > I have no intention of uploading his gedcom anywhere (so please don't
                > start posting all the reasons not to upload a gedcom because of
                > duplication, etc.). I was planning to add to my PAF file the family
                > information that I don't already have after checking his sources. I
                > was then intended to submit the family names for temple
                > ordinances like I have for the rest of the family I have researched.
                > They all fall properly into the guidelines posted in the NFS user's
                > guide. Entering them into NFS, however, seems to be doing
                > just what he asked me not to do.
                >
                > I've never before thought of it that way. I am the only member of
                > the church working on this line (as far as I know). I've never
                > thought before of my temple submissions going into the public
                > domain. When NFS goes public in a few years all the work will be
                > linked and sources and notes will be available as well. While that
                > is great as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid this gentleman and his
                > family might not feel the same way.
                >
                > I've never told any of my internet contacts I was LDS and doing
                > family history research with the goal of submitting family names for
                > temple ordinances. I admit I am afraid the well will dry up, and I
                > will be cut off from future correspondence and vital information.
                > How do the rest of you handle these kinds of situations? I don't
                > want to offend nor betray his trust.
                >
                > --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, Jacob Edwards <jdaddy3@...> wrote:
              • Sue Maxwell
                I think the issue here is that you won t be posting his notes and research. You will only be adding to nFS the names and basic facts for the ancestors
                Message 7 of 17 , May 29, 2008
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                  I think the issue here is that you won't be posting his notes and
                  research. You will only be adding to nFS the names and basic facts for
                  the ancestors involved. Specific names and facts are not what you might
                  call "copyrighted", only his research and notes belong to him. And you
                  would only add the names of the people that are not already on nFS, not
                  upload any of his work.
                  Sue

                  taffysmom2 wrote:
                  >
                  > I was recently contacted by a gentleman who shares a common ancestor
                  > with me 6 generations back. He saw a posting of mine on a public
                  > website where I shared information about my side of the family that
                  > came to the US in the mid-1800s. His relative emigrated to
                  > Australia, where his family now lives. He has freely shared
                  > information with me and I with him as we try to trace the family back
                  > another generation.
                  >
                  > Today he sent me a gedcom with all his research on the family well
                  > documented in Notes. Some of the documentation is my material sent
                  > to him, but most is his or his family's own research. He has been
                  > able to provide me answers to many of my own questions. It is
                  > wonderful. Here is my dilemma: In the last email with the gedcom
                  > attachment he said this, "Please don't upload to the net. It is
                  > criminal how those guys take it then sell it!"
                  >
                  > I have never uploaded any gedcoms to public websites EXCEPT for NFS.
                  > I have no intention of uploading his gedcom anywhere (so please don't
                  > start posting all the reasons not to upload a gedcom because of
                  > duplication, etc.). I was planning to add to my PAF file the family
                  > information that I don't already have after checking his sources. I
                  > was then intended to submit the family names for temple
                  > ordinances like I have for the rest of the family I have researched.
                  > They all fall properly into the guidelines posted in the NFS user's
                  > guide. Entering them into NFS, however, seems to be doing
                  > just what he asked me not to do.
                  >
                  > I've never before thought of it that way. I am the only member of
                  > the church working on this line (as far as I know). I've never
                  > thought before of my temple submissions going into the public
                  > domain. When NFS goes public in a few years all the work will be
                  > linked and sources and notes will be available as well. While that
                  > is great as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid this gentleman and his
                  > family might not feel the same way.
                  >
                  > I've never told any of my internet contacts I was LDS and doing
                  > family history research with the goal of submitting family names for
                  > temple ordinances. I admit I am afraid the well will dry up, and I
                  > will be cut off from future correspondence and vital information.
                  > How do the rest of you handle these kinds of situations? I don't
                  > want to offend nor betray his trust.
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • register
                  I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about the helper function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her record and mine.
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                    I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about the 'helper'
                    function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her record and
                    mine. No parents no siblings no children and yet when I sign on as myself I
                    see all of her and my parents and siblings and children and further.

                    From her helper login I search for my father and he is not to be found. Yet
                    he is there.

                    Ideas.

                    Eric
                  • Leslie Vaughn
                    Is your father alive? If he is, he is not searchable. If your father is dead you just need to link him to you when you are signed in as your wife s helper.
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 30, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Is your father alive? If he is, he is not searchable. If your father is dead you just need to link him to you when you are signed in as your wife's helper. Then you should be able to see him and his linked ancestors. If your father is living, as your wife's helper, you can add him and link him to you and to his deceased ancestor. ( I know if he is living, he is already in there, but you cannot search for and link a living person)

                      You cannot search for any living person in nFS. Also your wife cannot see any living person except you, her children and her parents and her siblings if they are church members. If her children are minors or are adult members of the church you should be able to see them. If you cannot, you should have your wife go to the membership clerk to see what shows when he pulls up her membership records. If her children are not showing on the membership records, that needs to be corrected.

                      Hope this helps

                      Leslie
                      From: register
                      Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:27 AM
                      To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: Pat Remley
                      Subject: [FHCNET] my wife and I


                      I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about the 'helper'
                      function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her record and
                      mine. No parents no siblings no children and yet when I sign on as myself I
                      see all of her and my parents and siblings and children and further.

                      From her helper login I search for my father and he is not to be found. Yet
                      he is there.

                      Ideas.

                      Eric





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • register
                      Thanks Leslie, good try. No parents are living. I would expect to find that helping her would display the same information as helping myself. It does not.
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                        Thanks Leslie, good try. No parents are living. I would expect to find
                        that helping her would display the same information as helping myself. It
                        does not. As our parents are linked to us on my data and as the same people
                        (my wife and I) are on her data I would expect to see them. Her data shows
                        she and me and that is all. Her id number is the same in both cases.

                        Still looking for ideas.

                        Eric

                        From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Leslie Vaughn
                        Sent: May 30, 2008 7:47 AM
                        To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [FHCNET] my wife and I

                        Is your father alive? If he is, he is not searchable. If your father is
                        dead you just need to link him to you when you are signed in as your wife's
                        helper. Then you should be able to see him and his linked ancestors. If
                        your father is living, as your wife's helper, you can add him and link him
                        to you and to his deceased ancestor. ( I know if he is living, he is
                        already in there, but you cannot search for and link a living person)

                        You cannot search for any living person in nFS. Also your wife cannot see
                        any living person except you, her children and her parents and her siblings
                        if they are church members. If her children are minors or are adult members
                        of the church you should be able to see them. If you cannot, you should
                        have your wife go to the membership clerk to see what shows when he pulls up
                        her membership records. If her children are not showing on the membership
                        records, that needs to be corrected.

                        Hope this helps

                        Leslie
                        From: register
                        Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:27 AM
                        To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: Pat Remley
                        Subject: [FHCNET] my wife and I


                        I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about the 'helper'
                        function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her record and
                        mine. No parents no siblings no children and yet when I sign on as myself I
                        see all of her and my parents and siblings and children and further.

                        From her helper login I search for my father and he is not to be found. Yet
                        he is there.

                        Ideas.

                        Eric





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG.
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                        7:27 AM
                      • register
                        I found a great reason for signing on as a helper for my wife. After doing this several times I found my memory was improved and I did not have to open my PAF
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                          I found a great reason for signing on as a helper for my wife. After doing
                          this several times I found my memory was improved and I did not have to open
                          my PAF program to find her birth date every time.

                          Eric
                        • Leslie Vaughn
                          I don t know why her parents aren t showing but your parents and your ancestors shouldn t be showing when you sign on as her helper because you are living.
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 30, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I don't know why her parents aren't showing but your parents and your ancestors shouldn't be showing when you sign on as her helper because you are living. You would just need to link your parents to you when you are signed on as her helper and that should put your ancestors on her chart. Again, I would go to the membership clerk to see what they have on her, because her living member children and her dead member (or proxy work done for her) parents should be linked to her. It should be an easy fix to add her parents to her. It is just a puzzlement as to why they aren't on there when she (you as helper) sign in.

                            Leslie


                            From: register
                            Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 11:18 AM
                            To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [FHCNET] my wife and I


                            Thanks Leslie, good try. No parents are living. I would expect to find
                            that helping her would display the same information as helping myself. It
                            does not. As our parents are linked to us on my data and as the same people
                            (my wife and I) are on her data I would expect to see them. Her data shows
                            she and me and that is all. Her id number is the same in both cases.

                            Still looking for ideas.

                            Eric

                            From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                            Leslie Vaughn
                            Sent: May 30, 2008 7:47 AM
                            To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [FHCNET] my wife and I

                            Is your father alive? If he is, he is not searchable. If your father is
                            dead you just need to link him to you when you are signed in as your wife's
                            helper. Then you should be able to see him and his linked ancestors. If
                            your father is living, as your wife's helper, you can add him and link him
                            to you and to his deceased ancestor. ( I know if he is living, he is
                            already in there, but you cannot search for and link a living person)

                            You cannot search for any living person in nFS. Also your wife cannot see
                            any living person except you, her children and her parents and her siblings
                            if they are church members. If her children are minors or are adult members
                            of the church you should be able to see them. If you cannot, you should
                            have your wife go to the membership clerk to see what shows when he pulls up
                            her membership records. If her children are not showing on the membership
                            records, that needs to be corrected.

                            Hope this helps

                            Leslie
                            From: register
                            Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:27 AM
                            To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                            Cc: Pat Remley
                            Subject: [FHCNET] my wife and I

                            I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about the 'helper'
                            function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her record and
                            mine. No parents no siblings no children and yet when I sign on as myself I
                            see all of her and my parents and siblings and children and further.

                            From her helper login I search for my father and he is not to be found. Yet
                            he is there.

                            Ideas.

                            Eric

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            List owner: ileenjohnson@...
                            Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
                            or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.comYahoo!
                            Groups Links

                            No virus found in this incoming message.
                            Checked by AVG.
                            Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.3/1472 - Release Date: 5/29/2008
                            7:27 AM





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Leslie Vaughn
                            Ha! I should have my husband do that. We ve been married 42 years and he still has to stop and think about my birthday! (and our kid s birthdays and our
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 30, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Ha! I should have my husband do that. We've been married 42 years and he still has to stop and think about my birthday! (and our kid's birthdays and our anniversary don't even ask him about the grandkids--too bad those aren't asked for when you help someone)


                              From: register
                              Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 11:33 AM
                              To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [FHCNET] A hidden feature in nFS


                              I found a great reason for signing on as a helper for my wife. After doing
                              this several times I found my memory was improved and I did not have to open
                              my PAF program to find her birth date every time.

                              Eric





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • dmerrill1967
                              Eric When you originally signed on as yourself you should have seen your wife and children. Children over 18 display only the name. Living parents are not
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                                Eric

                                When you originally signed on as yourself you should have seen your
                                wife and children. Children over 18 display only the name. Living
                                parents are not seen. If your parents are living you need to input
                                them and they will then show, but only when you are logged in as
                                yourself. After you input your living ancestors you can link them to
                                deceased ancestors found in nFS, completing your tree.

                                When you login to help someone for the first time they (your wife)
                                must go through the same process to complete their tree. The living
                                persons entered for the 'helpee' will only be visible when logged in
                                as that person (either being helped or personal login) and they
                                cannot see the living people you enter while logged in as yourself.

                                Hope this might help.

                                Dave

                                --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, register <emregister@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I have been doing some exploring and wanted to learn more about
                                the 'helper'
                                > function. So I signed on to help my wife. But I see only her
                                record and
                                > mine. No parents no siblings no children and yet when I sign on as
                                myself I
                                > see all of her and my parents and siblings and children and further.
                                >
                                > From her helper login I search for my father and he is not to be
                                found. Yet
                                > he is there.
                                >
                                > Ideas.
                                >
                                > Eric
                                >
                              • Alan Jones
                                He was probably talking about the problem that has happened in the past where people uploaded their materials to commercial sites such as Family Tree Maker,
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                                  He was probably talking about the problem that has happened in the past
                                  where people uploaded their materials to commercial sites such as Family
                                  Tree Maker, where they offer free storage space but in the fine print it
                                  says they can make a CD with everything on their site and sell it. There was
                                  a large fuss over this a while ago, and law suits. The sites involved
                                  changed their policies and I have not heard of any new such offenses.
                                  There are sites such as FamilySearch.org that are very committed to NOT
                                  making money off what people post. But we need to keep in mind that the
                                  names/dates/places are already in the public domain. Someone could go
                                  through the Census' and create a file and sell it, even if it had your
                                  family on it. That is totally legal. If however, you have organized it,
                                  documented it, etc. You automatically have a copyright and if others sold
                                  it, you could sue them.



                                  Of course when we do post things to the web (temple ordinances or others) we
                                  don't include things like social security numbers, etc. So personal stuff
                                  is never compromised.



                                  I would tend to respond to the person and says something like: yes, I know
                                  we need to be careful posting to the internet because some websites are more
                                  interested in money than genealogy. Luckily there are a few websites that
                                  can be trusted and it allows us to find other relatives who are also
                                  researching our same family line, such as FamilySearch.org, etc. Assure him
                                  that while some of your records may be on a website you would never post it
                                  where the materials would be taken advantage of.



                                  That's my opinion.

                                  Alan







                                  From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                                  taffysmom2
                                  Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:40 PM
                                  To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [FHCNET] NFS and Submitting Shared information



                                  ...
                                  Today he sent me a gedcom with all his research on the family well
                                  documented in Notes. Some of the documentation is my material sent
                                  to him, but most is his or his family's own research. He has been
                                  able to provide me answers to many of my own questions. It is
                                  wonderful. Here is my dilemma: In the last email with the gedcom
                                  attachment he said this, "Please don't upload to the net. It is
                                  criminal how those guys take it then sell it!"

                                  I have never uploaded any gedcoms to public websites EXCEPT for NFS.
                                  I have no intention of uploading his gedcom anywhere (so please don't
                                  start posting all the reasons not to upload a gedcom because of
                                  duplication, etc.). I was planning to add to my PAF file the family
                                  information that I don't already have after checking his sources. I
                                  was then intended to submit the family names for temple
                                  ordinances like I have for the rest of the family I have researched.
                                  They all fall properly into the guidelines posted in the NFS user's
                                  guide. Entering them into NFS, however, seems to be doing
                                  just what he asked me not to do.

                                  I've never before thought of it that way. I am the only member of
                                  the church working on this line (as far as I know). I've never
                                  thought before of my temple submissions going into the public
                                  domain. When NFS goes public in a few years all the work will be
                                  linked and sources and notes will be available as well. While that
                                  is great as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid this gentleman and his
                                  family might not feel the same way.

                                  I've never told any of my internet contacts I was LDS and doing
                                  family history research with the goal of submitting family names for
                                  temple ordinances. I admit I am afraid the well will dry up, and I
                                  will be cut off from future correspondence and vital information.
                                  How do the rest of you handle these kinds of situations? I don't
                                  want to offend nor betray his trust.





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • taffysmom2
                                  Thank you for that explanation. It gives me a different perspective on his concerns. I hadn t thought of Family Tree Maker. Since the Catholic church
                                  Message 16 of 17 , May 30, 2008
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                                    Thank you for that explanation. It gives me a different perspective
                                    on his concerns. I hadn't thought of Family Tree Maker. Since the
                                    Catholic church recently banned access to many of their records to
                                    those who would submit the names for temple ordinances, I am more
                                    cautious than ever about offending relatives of different faiths.

                                    I have found the church's family history program to be a great way to
                                    introduce gospel principles to non-members. I'm not shy about
                                    spreading the word in that way, but I do fear that some of those who
                                    would otherwise give me information might not if they knew that I
                                    would be submitting the names eventually for temple ordinances.
                                    Thanks to the others who helped explain the difference between the
                                    names/dates, etc. and the personal notes and research info that are
                                    contained in a person's file.
                                    --- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Jones" <alanjones10@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > He was probably talking about the problem that has happened in the
                                    past
                                    > where people uploaded their materials to commercial sites such as
                                    Family
                                    > Tree Maker, where they offer free storage space but in the fine
                                    print it
                                    > says they can make a CD with everything on their site and sell it.
                                    There was
                                    > a large fuss over this a while ago, and law suits. The sites
                                    involved
                                    > changed their policies and I have not heard of any new such
                                    offenses.
                                    > There are sites such as FamilySearch.org that are very committed to
                                    NOT
                                    > making money off what people post. But we need to keep in mind that
                                    the
                                    > names/dates/places are already in the public domain. Someone could
                                    go
                                    > through the Census' and create a file and sell it, even if it had
                                    your
                                    > family on it. That is totally legal. If however, you have organized
                                    it,
                                    > documented it, etc. You automatically have a copyright and if
                                    others sold
                                    > it, you could sue them.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Of course when we do post things to the web (temple ordinances or
                                    others) we
                                    > don't include things like social security numbers, etc. So
                                    personal stuff
                                    > is never compromised.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I would tend to respond to the person and says something like: yes,
                                    I know
                                    > we need to be careful posting to the internet because some websites
                                    are more
                                    > interested in money than genealogy. Luckily there are a few
                                    websites that
                                    > can be trusted and it allows us to find other relatives who are also
                                    > researching our same family line, such as FamilySearch.org, etc.
                                    Assure him
                                    > that while some of your records may be on a website you would never
                                    post it
                                    > where the materials would be taken advantage of.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > That's my opinion.
                                    >
                                    > Alan
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of
                                    > taffysmom2
                                    > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 7:40 PM
                                    > To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [FHCNET] NFS and Submitting Shared information
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ...
                                    > Today he sent me a gedcom with all his research on the family well
                                    > documented in Notes. Some of the documentation is my material sent
                                    > to him, but most is his or his family's own research. He has been
                                    > able to provide me answers to many of my own questions. It is
                                    > wonderful. Here is my dilemma: In the last email with the gedcom
                                    > attachment he said this, "Please don't upload to the net. It is
                                    > criminal how those guys take it then sell it!"
                                    >
                                    > I have never uploaded any gedcoms to public websites EXCEPT for
                                    NFS.
                                    > I have no intention of uploading his gedcom anywhere (so please
                                    don't
                                    > start posting all the reasons not to upload a gedcom because of
                                    > duplication, etc.). I was planning to add to my PAF file the family
                                    > information that I don't already have after checking his sources. I
                                    > was then intended to submit the family names for temple
                                    > ordinances like I have for the rest of the family I have
                                    researched.
                                    > They all fall properly into the guidelines posted in the NFS user's
                                    > guide. Entering them into NFS, however, seems to be doing
                                    > just what he asked me not to do.
                                    >
                                    > I've never before thought of it that way. I am the only member of
                                    > the church working on this line (as far as I know). I've never
                                    > thought before of my temple submissions going into the public
                                    > domain. When NFS goes public in a few years all the work will be
                                    > linked and sources and notes will be available as well. While that
                                    > is great as far as I'm concerned, I'm afraid this gentleman and his
                                    > family might not feel the same way.
                                    >
                                    > I've never told any of my internet contacts I was LDS and doing
                                    > family history research with the goal of submitting family names
                                    for
                                    > temple ordinances. I admit I am afraid the well will dry up, and I
                                    > will be cut off from future correspondence and vital information.
                                    > How do the rest of you handle these kinds of situations? I don't
                                    > want to offend nor betray his trust.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • T. Mason
                                    ... (if possible.) Whenever possible, parents should be sealed to each other before their children are sealed to them. ... they become effective only after the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jun 1, 2008
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                                      --- In message 20926 posted on Thu May 29, 2008, Jacob Edwards
                                      <jdaddy3@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > The answer is found on page 184 in the NFS user's guide.
                                      > Sequence of Ordinances
                                      > Please perform temple ordinances in the correct sequence. This is
                                      as follows:
                                      > • Baptism
                                      > • Confirmation
                                      > • Ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood for males
                                      > • Initiatory ordinances
                                      > • Endowment
                                      > • Sealing of a husband and wife and sealing of children to parents
                                      (if possible.) Whenever possible, parents should be sealed to each
                                      other before their children are sealed to them.
                                      > Although vicarious ordinances performed out of sequence are valid,
                                      they become effective only after the prerequisite ordinances are
                                      completed.

                                      ISSUE: There have been ordinance cards printed as extraction records
                                      and then not processed for many years. That restricts the processing
                                      of children being sealed to their parents. Sometimes cards have been
                                      printed and lost before an endowment and the rest of the ordinances
                                      are done. Such record have been in the IGI as "Cleared" for years.

                                      QUESTION: What do you recommend should be done to free up these names
                                      so that ordinances can be done allowing us to complete the binding of
                                      all family members together?

                                      Terry Mason
                                      Clermont, Florida
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