Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: TempleReady Guidelines

Expand Messages
  • Gary Templeman
    There are a number of items related to TempleReady in the December Memorandum and it appears there is a big push to try to limit the amount of duplication and
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      There are a number of items related to TempleReady in the December
      Memorandum and it appears there is a big push to try to limit the amount
      of duplication and errors. Knowing that we should "teach correct
      principles and let people govern themselves" means that if a patron
      really wants to submit names to TR that technically qualify but poorly
      researched, we probably need to allow it. But I believe we can do more
      to help people improve the quality of their submissions.

      We will be having our first staff meeting of the year soon, and I was
      curious what policies different centers had regarding discouraging
      patrons from processing names for TempleReady which do not meet the
      recommended guidelines, and how *firm* they are in that discouragement.
      Ideally we want to lead patrons on the path of *not* submitting records
      with estimated dates and places (if exact dates and places can be
      obtained with reasonable effort), or from unverified internet downloads,
      etc., but to do so without causing offence. It is particularly
      challanging to tell that brother or sister who has been "doing
      genealogy" for years that their research is sloppy.

      Gary Templeman
    • Alan Jones
      Great questions. I look forward to the answers. I am also a temple worker and Saturday I saw that some Ward was doing baptisms for British Royalty including
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Great questions. I look forward to the answers.
        I am also a temple worker and Saturday I saw
        that some Ward was doing baptisms for British
        Royalty including Mary Queen of Scotts.
        I did not check but I am sure those are done,
        and I know it is policy to refer people who want
        to do royalty to Salt Lake. Should I have
        taken the cards and stopped them?
        I really know that answer, but I wish someone
        had been more firm with them in processing
        their names.

        Alan


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@...>
        To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:22 PM
        Subject: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


        > There are a number of items related to TempleReady in the December
        > Memorandum and it appears there is a big push to try to limit the amount
        > of duplication and errors. Knowing that we should "teach correct
        > principles and let people govern themselves" means that if a patron
        > really wants to submit names to TR that technically qualify but poorly
        > researched, we probably need to allow it. But I believe we can do more
        > to help people improve the quality of their submissions.
        >
        > We will be having our first staff meeting of the year soon, and I was
        > curious what policies different centers had regarding discouraging
        > patrons from processing names for TempleReady which do not meet the
        > recommended guidelines, and how *firm* they are in that discouragement.
        > Ideally we want to lead patrons on the path of *not* submitting records
        > with estimated dates and places (if exact dates and places can be
        > obtained with reasonable effort), or from unverified internet downloads,
        > etc., but to do so without causing offence. It is particularly
        > challanging to tell that brother or sister who has been "doing
        > genealogy" for years that their research is sloppy.
        >
        > Gary Templeman
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > List owner: FHCNET-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
        > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        >
      • Jill A. Holmes
        Gary and all, First off when did you receive your Memorandum? I haven t received mine as of yet. I have worked with many patrons on this same subject and this
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Gary and all,

          First off when did you receive your Memorandum? I haven't received mine as
          of yet.

          I have worked with many patrons on this same subject and this is how I
          approach it: I do ask them if they have exhausted all their research on
          that particular line, if they say no and the dates and places are
          incomplete, I tell them that they should prayerfully take these names to the
          temple. That prayer can lead them into the right direction and also if the
          names are ready for the temple. I have some good response on that, but then
          there are others that 'don't care' and do it anyway. I believe that if you
          do all you can by suggesting that this needs to be done, it is their free
          agency to follow that council. I used to really worry about it and realized
          that I couldn't. The realm of it is too big, unfortunately.

          Jill Holmes
          FHC Director San Bernardino, CA
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@...>
          To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:22 PM
          Subject: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


          > There are a number of items related to TempleReady in the December
          > Memorandum and it appears there is a big push to try to limit the amount
          > of duplication and errors. Knowing that we should "teach correct
          > principles and let people govern themselves" means that if a patron
          > really wants to submit names to TR that technically qualify but poorly
          > researched, we probably need to allow it. But I believe we can do more
          > to help people improve the quality of their submissions.
          >
          > We will be having our first staff meeting of the year soon, and I was
          > curious what policies different centers had regarding discouraging
          > patrons from processing names for TempleReady which do not meet the
          > recommended guidelines, and how *firm* they are in that discouragement.
          > Ideally we want to lead patrons on the path of *not* submitting records
          > with estimated dates and places (if exact dates and places can be
          > obtained with reasonable effort), or from unverified internet downloads,
          > etc., but to do so without causing offence. It is particularly
          > challanging to tell that brother or sister who has been "doing
          > genealogy" for years that their research is sloppy.
          >
          > Gary Templeman
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > List owner: FHCNET-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
          > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Sue Barnsley
          We had a situation here at the Edmonton Alberta Temple, where in one of the names that had come through temple file was Joseph Smith. Yes, that Joseph Smith.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            We had a situation here at the Edmonton Alberta Temple, where in one of the
            names that had come through temple file was Joseph Smith. Yes, that Joseph
            Smith. It was cancelled. I appreciate all that you are saying. But I have
            come to the conclusion, that is if members want to waste their time in the
            temple doing work that has been done, because they do not want to take the
            time to check, then, that is there choice. However, I draw the line at the
            same members dumping their "sloppy" work into the temple for other members
            to do. That is just unethical. I have had some of our community members say
            to me that we have to do something about the IGI because it is such a mess.
            Yes, we know, but we can only teach correct principles and love our members
            and then they have to govern themselves. If we can't even identify our
            people on this side of the veil how in the world do we expect our ancestors
            to identify the work that is being done for them. (i.e. Mary Jones born: abt
            1849 ...U.S.A.). Our members want a quick and simple solution to family
            history. I always raise my eye brow when a member tells me that they are
            taking 100 names to the temple, when I know that they have been in the
            center twice in the past year. I just cringe. We recently had one sister do
            538 names of Danish origin. Doing Danish work is challenging at the best of
            times, but add to it abt. and poss. Place names and you end up with a mess
            and the possibility that many of the people don't even exist. I know that we
            are taught proper principles and expected to govern ourselves, but the
            amount of time that is being wasted because of duplication of work is
            incredible. Something has to give.


            Sue Barnsley
            Director
            FHC Riverbend, Edmonton Alberta.
          • Gary Templeman
            ... From: Sue Barnsley To: Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:50 PM Subject: RE: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Sue Barnsley" <sbarnsley@...>
              To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:50 PM
              Subject: RE: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


              > We had a situation here at the Edmonton Alberta Temple, where in one
              of the
              > names that had come through temple file was Joseph Smith. Yes, that
              Joseph
              > Smith. It was cancelled. I appreciate all that you are saying. But I
              have
              > come to the conclusion, that is if members want to waste their time in
              the
              > temple doing work that has been done, because they do not want to take
              the
              > time to check, then, that is there choice. However, I draw the line at
              the
              > same members dumping their "sloppy" work into the temple for other
              members
              > to do. That is just unethical. <snip>
              >
              >
              > Sue Barnsley
              > Director
              > FHC Riverbend, Edmonton Alberta.
              >
              >

              Who made and enforced the decision to cancel the ordinance for Joseph?
              If the power exists to cancel that name, it should exist *somewhere* for
              other names too. I'm not sure the FHC's are the appropriate place for
              those decisions, but I would like a better definition of exactly how far
              we could go in directing patrons as opposed to educating them. Then
              there is the in-between situation where the person is not turning the
              names into the temple file, but also is not doing the work personally
              themselves. I see a lot of sloppy work just before youth temple trips
              and before ward and stake temple nights.

              Gary Templeman
            • Gary Templeman
              I believe it showed up last Saturday. Maybe they are mailed alphabetically and Corvallis comes before San Bernardino ;-) I hadn t received one since September
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                I believe it showed up last Saturday. Maybe they are mailed
                alphabetically and Corvallis comes before San Bernardino ;-)

                I hadn't received one since September and was also wondering if there
                just were none during that time or if mine somehow were lost in the
                ether.

                Agency is the main question, and as I mentioned in a reply to Alan,
                agency is coupled with accountability. However, we often find
                restrictions on our use of agency. For example, I would not be given
                approval to hold an activity in the church building on a Monday night.
                The appropriate use of the word "no" is part of holding people
                accountable for their use of agency.

                Gary Templeman

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jill A. Holmes" <linkingfamilies@...>
                To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:54 PM
                Subject: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


                > Gary and all,
                >
                > First off when did you receive your Memorandum? I haven't received
                mine as
                > of yet.
                >
                > I have worked with many patrons on this same subject and this is how I
                > approach it: I do ask them if they have exhausted all their research
                on
                > that particular line, if they say no and the dates and places are
                > incomplete, I tell them that they should prayerfully take these names
                to the
                > temple. That prayer can lead them into the right direction and also
                if the
                > names are ready for the temple. I have some good response on that,
                but then
                > there are others that 'don't care' and do it anyway. I believe that
                if you
                > do all you can by suggesting that this needs to be done, it is their
                free
                > agency to follow that council. I used to really worry about it and
                realized
                > that I couldn't. The realm of it is too big, unfortunately.
                >
                > Jill Holmes
                > FHC Director San Bernardino, CA
              • Gary Templeman
                And that is really the essence of the question. While respecting agency, how firm can and should we get? Beyond the possibility of giving the FHC or temples
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  And that is really the essence of the question. While respecting
                  agency, how firm can and should we get? Beyond the possibility of
                  giving the FHC or temples the power to reject names outright, I think
                  spending more time reviewing the guidelines *before* the processing
                  though TR begins will help circumvent many of the problems. Patrons
                  don't seem to have a problem if an impersonal computer says a name
                  doesn't qualify, but I can picture someone becoming offended if someone
                  at the FHC steps in and says, "No, you cannot do the work for Mary,
                  Queen of Scots". It may be better received if that decision comes from
                  someone at the temple. OTOH, along with agency comes accountability,
                  and if someone becomes offended when they are in fact held accountable,
                  then that is also *their* exercise of agency.

                  One thought I had was somehow making TR password protected, so that a
                  staff member would be required to launch the program. That would at
                  least open the door to encourage a review of guidelines before the disk
                  gets read.

                  Gary Templeman

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Alan Jones" <alanjones10@...>
                  To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 3:52 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


                  > Great questions. I look forward to the answers.
                  > I am also a temple worker and Saturday I saw
                  > that some Ward was doing baptisms for British
                  > Royalty including Mary Queen of Scotts.
                  > I did not check but I am sure those are done,
                  > and I know it is policy to refer people who want
                  > to do royalty to Salt Lake. Should I have
                  > taken the cards and stopped them?
                  > I really know that answer, but I wish someone
                  > had been more firm with them in processing
                  > their names.
                  >
                  > Alan
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Gary Templeman" <gtempleman1@...>
                  > To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 1:22 PM
                  > Subject: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines
                  >
                  >
                  > > There are a number of items related to TempleReady in the December
                  > > Memorandum and it appears there is a big push to try to limit the
                  amount
                  > > of duplication and errors. Knowing that we should "teach correct
                  > > principles and let people govern themselves" means that if a patron
                  > > really wants to submit names to TR that technically qualify but
                  poorly
                  > > researched, we probably need to allow it. But I believe we can do
                  more
                  > > to help people improve the quality of their submissions.
                  > >
                  > > We will be having our first staff meeting of the year soon, and I
                  was
                  > > curious what policies different centers had regarding discouraging
                  > > patrons from processing names for TempleReady which do not meet the
                  > > recommended guidelines, and how *firm* they are in that
                  discouragement.
                  > > Ideally we want to lead patrons on the path of *not* submitting
                  records
                  > > with estimated dates and places (if exact dates and places can be
                  > > obtained with reasonable effort), or from unverified internet
                  downloads,
                  > > etc., but to do so without causing offence. It is particularly
                  > > challanging to tell that brother or sister who has been "doing
                  > > genealogy" for years that their research is sloppy.
                  > >
                  > > Gary Templeman
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > List owner: FHCNET-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
                  > > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
                  Sponsor ---------------------~-->
                  > Win a Capcom Console Game.
                  > http://us.click.yahoo.com/smpz8B/fxbDAA/ySSFAA/FvNolB/TM
                  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~
                  ->
                  >
                  > List owner: FHCNET-owner@yahoogroups.com
                  > Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
                  > or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Sue Barnsley
                  The decision was made in the temple, as it was a temple file name. In working with our Temple President, we have determined that the sloppy messes have to stop
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 1, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The decision was made in the temple, as it was a temple file name. In
                    working with our Temple President, we have determined that the sloppy messes
                    have to stop at the family history center, we have to be something akin to
                    TempleReady Police. The integrity of our databases are in question as well.
                    As has been reported we can teach and educate, but we need something more
                    firm from Salt Lake on what we can do. If Salt Lake is really concerned
                    about the duplications then give us something to use at the centers that
                    will help, something more concrete. Of course there will be those who just
                    refuse to listen and will do the sloppy stuff anyway, but there are some
                    members who will listen and will do all the they can to change.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Gary Templeman [mailto:gtempleman1@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 6:16 PM
                    To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Sue Barnsley" <sbarnsley@...>
                    To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 4:50 PM
                    Subject: RE: [FHCNET] Re: TempleReady Guidelines


                    > We had a situation here at the Edmonton Alberta Temple, where in one
                    of the
                    > names that had come through temple file was Joseph Smith. Yes, that
                    Joseph
                    > Smith. It was cancelled. I appreciate all that you are saying. But I
                    have
                    > come to the conclusion, that is if members want to waste their time in
                    the
                    > temple doing work that has been done, because they do not want to take
                    the
                    > time to check, then, that is there choice. However, I draw the line at
                    the
                    > same members dumping their "sloppy" work into the temple for other
                    members
                    > to do. That is just unethical. <snip>
                    >
                    >
                    > Sue Barnsley
                    > Director
                    > FHC Riverbend, Edmonton Alberta.
                    >
                    >

                    Who made and enforced the decision to cancel the ordinance for Joseph?
                    If the power exists to cancel that name, it should exist *somewhere* for
                    other names too. I'm not sure the FHC's are the appropriate place for
                    those decisions, but I would like a better definition of exactly how far
                    we could go in directing patrons as opposed to educating them. Then
                    there is the in-between situation where the person is not turning the
                    names into the temple file, but also is not doing the work personally
                    themselves. I see a lot of sloppy work just before youth temple trips
                    and before ward and stake temple nights.

                    Gary Templeman




                    List owner: FHCNET-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
                    or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • terryann2@aol.com
                    We can t and shouldn t really stop people from submitting names to the temple unless we are absolutely sure their information should not be submitted (such as
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 2, 2002
                    • 0 Attachment
                      We can't and shouldn't really stop people from submitting names to the temple
                      unless we are absolutely sure their information should not be submitted (such
                      as the submission for "Mary, Queen of Scots" which we know has been done a
                      kazillion times over).

                      While we can offer guidelines, it is really a personal decision on the part
                      of the individual.

                      Post guidelines, teach them in classes or seminars or hand out a sheet of
                      guidelines, but when the person actually comes with their names and wants to
                      clear them, we should be encouraging and helpful at that point. If the names
                      clear the computer and there's no glaring errors, that's it for me. I would
                      never tell someone that I didn't like how they estimated their dates and send
                      them home with uncleared names, telling them they should do more.

                      Terry Morgan
                      Huntsville Alabama Stake
                    • bonniewhitley@juno.com
                      ... How about more frequent Ordinance updates? The OI is already two years old. What else can we do to make this concern known? We need to use the Feedback
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 2, 2002
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Sue Barnsley wrote:
                        >If Salt Lake is really concerned about the duplications
                        >then give us something to use at the centers that
                        >will help, something more concrete.......

                        How about more frequent Ordinance updates?
                        The OI is already two years old. What else can we do
                        to make this concern known? We need to use the
                        "Feedback" option in familysearch.org for any and all
                        requests.

                        What I teach staff and patrons is that before any submission
                        is formulated, they should
                        1)update their PAF databases
                        using TR Windows option to "Update file".
                        2) run the PAF list for those who qualify for ordinances.
                        3) do a MANUAL OI check for the names who now qualify

                        However, because OI is not up to date, it distresses
                        me greatly knowing some of these submissions are most likely
                        going to be duplicates as a result.

                        Our center posts a list of suggested minimum requirements
                        to clear names for temple ordinances and my experience
                        is that most of our patrons & staff are sensitive to the duplication
                        issue. Education is the key.

                        Bonnie Whitley
                        Draper, UT FHC
                      • singhals
                        ... Does anyone know how to retrieve one s user ID & password for the feedback? I seem to have lost mine; I clicked to have it sent nearly a week ago, and so
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 2, 2002
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 04:57 PM 01/02/2002 -0700, you wrote:
                          >Sue Barnsley wrote:

                          >to make this concern known? We need to use the
                          >"Feedback" option in familysearch.org for any and all
                          >requests.

                          Does anyone know how to retrieve one's user ID & password for the feedback?
                          I seem to have lost mine; I clicked to have it sent nearly a week ago, and
                          so far nada.

                          Cheryl
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.