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Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

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  • Cat Devereaux
    ... I d want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical... AND I d want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern. Measurements only
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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      On 11/19/2012 9:42 AM, Elizabeth Phillips wrote:
      > Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the
      > person is going to wear!
      I'd want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical...
      AND I'd want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern.
      Measurements only tell so much... unless you get many... and then you
      have to trust the measurement taker. (We discussed that a few weeks ago
      here.)

      You also might mention that folks around here are nervous about the fit
      w/o lots of mailed fitting of the muslin, and think that the actress may
      have also been taped.

      So when you're estimating, include mailing costs and time of the extra
      muslins.

      -Cat-
    • Naresha
      No fittings?  That s going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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        No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
        with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

        One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

        As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
        you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.





        ________________________________
        From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
        To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
        Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


         
        Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

        So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

        Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

        I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

        Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

        This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
        > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
        >
        > on looking at pattern instructions:
        > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
        >
        > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
        > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
        > S
        >
        > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
        > >
        > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
        > >
        > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
        > >
        > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
        > >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carol Kocian
        ... Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure and with the actress
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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          On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Naresha wrote:

          > No fittings? That's going to be exceptionally problematic even
          > with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a
          > dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in
          > order to support itself, you will need fittings.


          Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the
          compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure
          and with the actress available for fittings. I don't think you're
          going to get that exact dress, but you can get some features. The
          fabric, the color and the trimming will look beautiful even if it's
          not the exact lines.

          The patterns you've shown will be beautiful gowns, the only
          difference is that they do not have the heavy sleeves. You're not
          looking at the off-the-shoulder neckline.

          Plus you were talking about a stretch velvet, which will behave
          differently than a woven fabric. Your fitting "muslin" will need to
          have similar stretch to your stretch velvet.

          Part of the conversation with the client is, what parts of the
          original gown does she like the best? What does it need to have, vs.
          what can be compromised in order to be able to make it long-distance?

          -Carol
        • Jim or Chris Porter
          Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces? ________________________________ From: Naresha
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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            Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces?




            ________________________________
            From: Naresha <north_shore_fruitcake@...>
            To: "F-Costume@yahoogroups.com" <F-Costume@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:16 AM
            Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


             
            No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
            with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

            One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

            As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
            you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.

            ________________________________
            From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
            To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
            Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


             
            Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

            So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

            Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

            I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

            Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

            This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

            --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
            > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
            >
            > on looking at pattern instructions:
            > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
            >
            > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
            > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
            > S
            >
            > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
            > >
            > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
            > >
            > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
            > >
            > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
            > >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Hazel Daniel
            Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I ve found a pattern....
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
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              Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

              --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
              >
              > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
              >  
              > Sheree
              >  
              > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
              > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
              > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
              >
              >  
              > Different pattern perhaps?
              >
              > I found this on the vogue website
              >
              > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
              >
              > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
              >
              > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Jim or Chris Porter
              There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
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                There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?



                ________________________________
                From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 3:59 AM
                Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                 
                Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

                --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
                >  
                > Sheree
                >  
                > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
                > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
                >
                >  
                > Different pattern perhaps?
                >
                > I found this on the vogue website
                >
                > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
                >
                > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
                >
                > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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