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Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

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  • Sarah Strong
    Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it s not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress)
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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      Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not
      designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can
      support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off
      the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to
      hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it
      will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress
      has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be
      in the foundation either.
      If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you
      might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips
      also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also
      key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation,
      firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and
      closed with a big hook and eye or two.

      on looking at pattern instructions:
      I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store,
      where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I
      want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you
      can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue,
      and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be
      inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know
      I'm not going to cause trouble! :D

      Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to
      start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans
      to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the
      fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
      I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit
      to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for
      everyone's cash flow...
      S

      On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
      >
      > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the
      > dress, kinda like a sandwich?
      >
      > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the
      > shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital,
      > which is half hour train ride away.
      >
      > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll
      > give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas,
      > end of december, the new year.
      >
    • Elizabeth Phillips
      Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the person is going to wear!   I made a wedding dress a couple of years ago that ended up being
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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        Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the person is going to wear!
         
        I made a wedding dress a couple of years ago that ended up being tight at the top of the sleeve because the bust was a little higher in the bra she bought the day before the wedding.  Still looked nice, but was uncomfortable for her.
         
        I also helped her daughter make a strapless mermaid dress.  I fit it very snugly over her regular bra, but it was too loose over a strapless bra.  We had to take tucks on the day and she still had to keep hoisting it up.
         
        I will never again make a dress for someone without the proper underpinnings.


        ________________________________
        From: Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...>
        To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 12:27 PM
        Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

        Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not
        designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can
        support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off
        the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to
        hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it
        will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress
        has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be
        in the foundation either.
        If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you
        might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips
        also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also
        key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation,
        firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and
        closed with a big hook and eye or two.

        on looking at pattern instructions:
        I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store,
        where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I
        want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you
        can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue,
        and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be
        inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know
        I'm not going to cause trouble! :D

        Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to
        start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans
        to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the
        fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
        I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit
        to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for
        everyone's cash flow...
        S

        On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
        >
        > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the
        > dress, kinda like a sandwich?
        >
        > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the
        > shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital,
        > which is half hour train ride away.
        >
        > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll
        > give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas,
        > end of december, the new year.
        >


        ------------------------------------

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hazel Daniel
        Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets.... So the foundation is
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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          Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

          So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

          Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

          I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

          Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

          This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
          > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
          >
          > on looking at pattern instructions:
          > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
          >
          > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
          > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
          > S
          >
          > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
          > >
          > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
          > >
          > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
          > >
          > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
          > >
          >
        • aquazoo@patriot.net
          At the fabric store, just explain that you are trying to decide between a couple of different patterns, and that you would like to see the instructions for
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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            At the fabric store, just explain that you are trying to decide between a
            couple of different patterns, and that you would like to see the
            instructions for each before you decide. The clerk might want to pull the
            sheets out of the envelope for you, if they are concerned that anything
            will get rumpled too much.

            Coutil is the best, but any fabric that is tightly-woven and firm should
            do. Natural fibers will be more comfortable against the skin.

            While a corset will anchor the weight of the dress at the waist, you will
            probably want to extend it to flare over the hips. Depending on the shape
            of the client, boning that ends at the waist can be really uncomfortable.

            Something else that will help support the sleeves is to have them snug in
            the upper arm. That way it's not the neckline or shoulder straps carrying
            all the weight.

            -Carol


            > Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use?
            > Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....
            >
            > So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist
            > ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with
            > hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper
            > in my case)...is that right?
            >
            > Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get
            > them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in
            > a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the
            > catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself,
            > have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask
            > next time I'm in there. :)
            >
            > I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all
            > I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.
            >
            > Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate
            > areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her
            > properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.
            >
            > This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me
            > specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the
            > end!
          • Sarah Strong
            If the pattern you end up using as a starting point doesn t include a foundation (lots of bridal patterns do) then you ll want to derive it from the dress
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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              If the pattern you end up using as a starting point doesn't include a
              foundation (lots of bridal patterns do) then you'll want to derive it
              from the dress pattern, only make it fit more snugly. The neckline will
              be the same so it holds up the dress neck line. Coutil is used for
              corsets because it is strong enough to hold up to squeezing the body
              into the artificial shape. This doesn't have to do that. It just needs
              to be strong enough to hold the bones in place, which are holding the
              dress up. Calico would be adequate for a little strapless cocktail
              dress, you might want something a bit more sturdy for this, but if you
              have a hard time finding coutil it's not essential. (unless the wearer
              needs that kind of shaping)

              You are *not* going to be able to make this dress fit properly without
              fittings. You will need her to come for a fitting with the first test in
              muslin, possibly a second if there are a lot of changes you have to
              make, and again in the real fabric. There isn't enough $$ to pay me to
              do this type of project without that. I know there are seamstresses who
              manage somehow to get meaningful info from a fitting by mail, but I'm
              not one of them!

              Yes, the foundation is sewn to the top edge of the dress like a
              glorified facing, and anchored at the seams so things stay where they
              belong. The ribbon belt is inside the foundation because it may be the
              smallest measurement of all, and similarly anchored every couple inches,
              with the last inch or two at the ends free so you can operate the hook
              and eye, and get them really snug. A zip sounds fine for the dress.
              (Invisible zips are wonderful for places like this where you don't want
              a big honking zipper placket screaming ZIPPER)

              yeah, make sure you get good measurements, and lots of them, and an
              adequate deposit.

              On 11/19/2012 1:56 PM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
              > Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use?
              > Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....
              >
              > So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist
              > ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with
              > hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure
              > (zipper in my case)...is that right?
              >
              > Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get
              > them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept
              > in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the
              > catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for
              > yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want.
              > Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)
              >
              > I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so
              > all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.
              >
              > Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate
              > areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits
              > her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.
              >
              > This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me
              > specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at
              > the end!
              >
            • Cat Devereaux
              ... I d want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical... AND I d want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern. Measurements only
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
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                On 11/19/2012 9:42 AM, Elizabeth Phillips wrote:
                > Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the
                > person is going to wear!
                I'd want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical...
                AND I'd want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern.
                Measurements only tell so much... unless you get many... and then you
                have to trust the measurement taker. (We discussed that a few weeks ago
                here.)

                You also might mention that folks around here are nervous about the fit
                w/o lots of mailed fitting of the muslin, and think that the actress may
                have also been taped.

                So when you're estimating, include mailing costs and time of the extra
                muslins.

                -Cat-
              • Naresha
                No fittings?  That s going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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                  No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
                  with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

                  One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

                  As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
                  you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.





                  ________________________________
                  From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                  To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
                  Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                   
                  Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

                  So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

                  Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

                  I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

                  Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

                  This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

                  --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
                  > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
                  >
                  > on looking at pattern instructions:
                  > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
                  >
                  > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                  > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
                  > S
                  >
                  > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                  > >
                  > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
                  > >
                  > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
                  > >
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Carol Kocian
                  ... Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure and with the actress
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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                    On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Naresha wrote:

                    > No fittings? That's going to be exceptionally problematic even
                    > with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a
                    > dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in
                    > order to support itself, you will need fittings.


                    Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the
                    compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure
                    and with the actress available for fittings. I don't think you're
                    going to get that exact dress, but you can get some features. The
                    fabric, the color and the trimming will look beautiful even if it's
                    not the exact lines.

                    The patterns you've shown will be beautiful gowns, the only
                    difference is that they do not have the heavy sleeves. You're not
                    looking at the off-the-shoulder neckline.

                    Plus you were talking about a stretch velvet, which will behave
                    differently than a woven fabric. Your fitting "muslin" will need to
                    have similar stretch to your stretch velvet.

                    Part of the conversation with the client is, what parts of the
                    original gown does she like the best? What does it need to have, vs.
                    what can be compromised in order to be able to make it long-distance?

                    -Carol
                  • Jim or Chris Porter
                    Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces? ________________________________ From: Naresha
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
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                      Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces?




                      ________________________________
                      From: Naresha <north_shore_fruitcake@...>
                      To: "F-Costume@yahoogroups.com" <F-Costume@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:16 AM
                      Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                       
                      No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
                      with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

                      One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

                      As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
                      you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.

                      ________________________________
                      From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                      To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
                      Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                       
                      Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

                      So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

                      Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

                      I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

                      Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

                      This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

                      --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
                      > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
                      >
                      > on looking at pattern instructions:
                      > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
                      >
                      > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                      > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
                      > S
                      >
                      > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                      > >
                      > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
                      > >
                      > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
                      > >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Hazel Daniel
                      Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I ve found a pattern....
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

                        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
                        >  
                        > Sheree
                        >  
                        > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                        > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
                        > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
                        >
                        >  
                        > Different pattern perhaps?
                        >
                        > I found this on the vogue website
                        >
                        > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
                        >
                        > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
                        >
                        > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Jim or Chris Porter
                        There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?



                          ________________________________
                          From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                          To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 3:59 AM
                          Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                           
                          Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

                          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
                          >  
                          > Sheree
                          >  
                          > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                          > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
                          > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
                          >
                          >  
                          > Different pattern perhaps?
                          >
                          > I found this on the vogue website
                          >
                          > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
                          >
                          > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
                          >
                          > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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