Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

Expand Messages
  • Sarah Strong
    That could work, plus it has the added benefit of a real sleeve, long enough to form a real basis for the dress you want to make. Also, you may not be able to
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      That could work, plus it has the added benefit of a real sleeve, long
      enough to form a real basis for the dress you want to make.

      Also, you may not be able to get away with just "boning the bodice" (you
      *might*, with the addition of the ribbon waist belt, if the dress fits
      closely and isn't too heavy) The foundation I was talking about is like
      a separate inner bodice, sufficiently boned and with the ribbon waist
      belt, attached to the dress along the top edge. If you have never made a
      strapless dress, and if you find pattern instructions intelligible, you
      might take a gander to your local store that carries Vogue patterns, and
      read the instructions in a strapless dress pattern that has a
      foundation. Like for instance
      http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2237-products-4531.php?page_id=318
      or
      http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v1273-products-15136.php?page_id=861
      or any of a number of other dresses that have a boned foundation.


      On 11/19/2012 9:08 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
      > Different pattern perhaps?
      >
      > I found this on the vogue website
      >
      > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
      >
      > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help
      > support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have
      > suggested.....would that work?
      >
      > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the
      > alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
      >
    • slc_fire
      I ve made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it s a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
         
        Sheree
         
        Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!


        ________________________________
        From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
        To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
        Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

         
        Different pattern perhaps?

        I found this on the vogue website

        http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850

        If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?

        I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hazel Daniel
        Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich? Really? I thought you weren t allowed to remove the
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?

          Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.

          I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.



          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
          >
          > That could work, plus it has the added benefit of a real sleeve, long enough to form a real basis for the dress you want to make.
          >
          > Also, you may not be able to get away with just "boning the bodice" (you *might*, with the addition of the ribbon waist belt, if the dress fits closely and isn't too heavy) The foundation I was talking about is like a separate inner bodice, sufficiently boned and with the ribbon waist
          > belt, attached to the dress along the top edge. If you have never made a strapless dress, and if you find pattern instructions intelligible, you might take a gander to your local store that carries Vogue patterns, and read the instructions in a strapless dress pattern that has a foundation. Like for instance
          > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2237-products-4531.php?page_id=318
          > or
          > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v1273-products-15136.php?page_id=861
          > or any of a number of other dresses that have a boned foundation.
        • Elizabeth Phillips
          Really?  I was thinking of making that for myself for a family wedding.  Guess I ll do something else. ________________________________ From: slc_fire
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Really?  I was thinking of making that for myself for a family wedding.  Guess I'll do something else.



            ________________________________
            From: slc_fire <slc_fire@...>
            To: "F-Costume@yahoogroups.com" <F-Costume@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:35 AM
            Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

            I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
             
            Sheree
             
            Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!


            ________________________________
            From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
            To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
            Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

             
            Different pattern perhaps?

            I found this on the vogue website

            http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850

            If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?

            I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sarah Strong
            wow, bummer. :( looked so good!
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              wow, bummer. :( looked so good!

              On 11/19/2012 9:35 AM, slc_fire wrote:
              > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very
              > difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress
              > and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes
              > serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the
              > neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m
              > not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
              >
              > Sheree
              >
              > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might
              > as well dance!
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...
              > <mailto:hazel.daniel%40ymail.com>>
              > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com <mailto:F-Costume%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
              > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
              >
              >
              > Different pattern perhaps?
              >
              > I found this on the vogue website
              >
              > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
              >
            • Sarah Strong
              Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it s not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress)
              Message 6 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not
                designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can
                support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off
                the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to
                hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it
                will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress
                has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be
                in the foundation either.
                If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you
                might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips
                also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also
                key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation,
                firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and
                closed with a big hook and eye or two.

                on looking at pattern instructions:
                I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store,
                where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I
                want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you
                can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue,
                and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be
                inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know
                I'm not going to cause trouble! :D

                Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to
                start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans
                to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the
                fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit
                to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for
                everyone's cash flow...
                S

                On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                >
                > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the
                > dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                >
                > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the
                > shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital,
                > which is half hour train ride away.
                >
                > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll
                > give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas,
                > end of december, the new year.
                >
              • Elizabeth Phillips
                Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the person is going to wear!   I made a wedding dress a couple of years ago that ended up being
                Message 7 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the person is going to wear!
                   
                  I made a wedding dress a couple of years ago that ended up being tight at the top of the sleeve because the bust was a little higher in the bra she bought the day before the wedding.  Still looked nice, but was uncomfortable for her.
                   
                  I also helped her daughter make a strapless mermaid dress.  I fit it very snugly over her regular bra, but it was too loose over a strapless bra.  We had to take tucks on the day and she still had to keep hoisting it up.
                   
                  I will never again make a dress for someone without the proper underpinnings.


                  ________________________________
                  From: Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...>
                  To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 12:27 PM
                  Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help

                  Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not
                  designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can
                  support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off
                  the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to
                  hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it
                  will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress
                  has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be
                  in the foundation either.
                  If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you
                  might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips
                  also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also
                  key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation,
                  firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and
                  closed with a big hook and eye or two.

                  on looking at pattern instructions:
                  I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store,
                  where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I
                  want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you
                  can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue,
                  and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be
                  inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know
                  I'm not going to cause trouble! :D

                  Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to
                  start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans
                  to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the
                  fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                  I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit
                  to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for
                  everyone's cash flow...
                  S

                  On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                  >
                  > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the
                  > dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                  >
                  > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the
                  > shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital,
                  > which is half hour train ride away.
                  >
                  > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll
                  > give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas,
                  > end of december, the new year.
                  >


                  ------------------------------------

                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Hazel Daniel
                  Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets.... So the foundation is
                  Message 8 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

                    So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

                    Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

                    I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

                    Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

                    This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

                    --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
                    > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
                    >
                    > on looking at pattern instructions:
                    > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
                    >
                    > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                    > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
                    > S
                    >
                    > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                    > >
                    > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
                    > >
                    > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
                    > >
                    >
                  • aquazoo@patriot.net
                    At the fabric store, just explain that you are trying to decide between a couple of different patterns, and that you would like to see the instructions for
                    Message 9 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      At the fabric store, just explain that you are trying to decide between a
                      couple of different patterns, and that you would like to see the
                      instructions for each before you decide. The clerk might want to pull the
                      sheets out of the envelope for you, if they are concerned that anything
                      will get rumpled too much.

                      Coutil is the best, but any fabric that is tightly-woven and firm should
                      do. Natural fibers will be more comfortable against the skin.

                      While a corset will anchor the weight of the dress at the waist, you will
                      probably want to extend it to flare over the hips. Depending on the shape
                      of the client, boning that ends at the waist can be really uncomfortable.

                      Something else that will help support the sleeves is to have them snug in
                      the upper arm. That way it's not the neckline or shoulder straps carrying
                      all the weight.

                      -Carol


                      > Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use?
                      > Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....
                      >
                      > So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist
                      > ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with
                      > hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper
                      > in my case)...is that right?
                      >
                      > Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get
                      > them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in
                      > a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the
                      > catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself,
                      > have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask
                      > next time I'm in there. :)
                      >
                      > I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all
                      > I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.
                      >
                      > Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate
                      > areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her
                      > properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.
                      >
                      > This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me
                      > specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the
                      > end!
                    • Sarah Strong
                      If the pattern you end up using as a starting point doesn t include a foundation (lots of bridal patterns do) then you ll want to derive it from the dress
                      Message 10 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        If the pattern you end up using as a starting point doesn't include a
                        foundation (lots of bridal patterns do) then you'll want to derive it
                        from the dress pattern, only make it fit more snugly. The neckline will
                        be the same so it holds up the dress neck line. Coutil is used for
                        corsets because it is strong enough to hold up to squeezing the body
                        into the artificial shape. This doesn't have to do that. It just needs
                        to be strong enough to hold the bones in place, which are holding the
                        dress up. Calico would be adequate for a little strapless cocktail
                        dress, you might want something a bit more sturdy for this, but if you
                        have a hard time finding coutil it's not essential. (unless the wearer
                        needs that kind of shaping)

                        You are *not* going to be able to make this dress fit properly without
                        fittings. You will need her to come for a fitting with the first test in
                        muslin, possibly a second if there are a lot of changes you have to
                        make, and again in the real fabric. There isn't enough $$ to pay me to
                        do this type of project without that. I know there are seamstresses who
                        manage somehow to get meaningful info from a fitting by mail, but I'm
                        not one of them!

                        Yes, the foundation is sewn to the top edge of the dress like a
                        glorified facing, and anchored at the seams so things stay where they
                        belong. The ribbon belt is inside the foundation because it may be the
                        smallest measurement of all, and similarly anchored every couple inches,
                        with the last inch or two at the ends free so you can operate the hook
                        and eye, and get them really snug. A zip sounds fine for the dress.
                        (Invisible zips are wonderful for places like this where you don't want
                        a big honking zipper placket screaming ZIPPER)

                        yeah, make sure you get good measurements, and lots of them, and an
                        adequate deposit.

                        On 11/19/2012 1:56 PM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                        > Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use?
                        > Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....
                        >
                        > So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist
                        > ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with
                        > hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure
                        > (zipper in my case)...is that right?
                        >
                        > Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get
                        > them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept
                        > in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the
                        > catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for
                        > yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want.
                        > Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)
                        >
                        > I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so
                        > all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.
                        >
                        > Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate
                        > areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits
                        > her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.
                        >
                        > This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me
                        > specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at
                        > the end!
                        >
                      • Cat Devereaux
                        ... I d want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical... AND I d want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern. Measurements only
                        Message 11 of 26 , Nov 19, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 11/19/2012 9:42 AM, Elizabeth Phillips wrote:
                          > Absolutely get the measurements with the foundation garments the
                          > person is going to wear!
                          I'd want to go beyond that point. Foundation garments are critical...
                          AND I'd want a t shirt duck tape over that to make the pattern.
                          Measurements only tell so much... unless you get many... and then you
                          have to trust the measurement taker. (We discussed that a few weeks ago
                          here.)

                          You also might mention that folks around here are nervous about the fit
                          w/o lots of mailed fitting of the muslin, and think that the actress may
                          have also been taped.

                          So when you're estimating, include mailing costs and time of the extra
                          muslins.

                          -Cat-
                        • Naresha
                          No fittings?  That s going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to
                          Message 12 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
                            with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

                            One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

                            As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
                            you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.





                            ________________________________
                            From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                            To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
                            Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                             
                            Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

                            So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

                            Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

                            I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

                            Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

                            This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

                            --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
                            > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
                            >
                            > on looking at pattern instructions:
                            > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
                            >
                            > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                            > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
                            > S
                            >
                            > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                            > >
                            > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
                            > >
                            > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
                            > >
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Carol Kocian
                            ... Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure and with the actress
                            Message 13 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On Nov 20, 2012, at 6:16 AM, Naresha wrote:

                              > No fittings? That's going to be exceptionally problematic even
                              > with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a
                              > dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in
                              > order to support itself, you will need fittings.


                              Agreed! The alternative is for the client to understand the
                              compromise needed. The original dress was made with lots of structure
                              and with the actress available for fittings. I don't think you're
                              going to get that exact dress, but you can get some features. The
                              fabric, the color and the trimming will look beautiful even if it's
                              not the exact lines.

                              The patterns you've shown will be beautiful gowns, the only
                              difference is that they do not have the heavy sleeves. You're not
                              looking at the off-the-shoulder neckline.

                              Plus you were talking about a stretch velvet, which will behave
                              differently than a woven fabric. Your fitting "muslin" will need to
                              have similar stretch to your stretch velvet.

                              Part of the conversation with the client is, what parts of the
                              original gown does she like the best? What does it need to have, vs.
                              what can be compromised in order to be able to make it long-distance?

                              -Carol
                            • Jim or Chris Porter
                              Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces? ________________________________ From: Naresha
                              Message 14 of 26 , Nov 20, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Would it help with the weight if the bodice and skirt were constructed a separate pieces?




                                ________________________________
                                From: Naresha <north_shore_fruitcake@...>
                                To: "F-Costume@yahoogroups.com" <F-Costume@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 4:16 AM
                                Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                                 
                                No fittings?  That's going to be exceptionally problematic even with the most precise and detailed measurements, especially with a dress that is designed to hug the body and moreover, NEEDS to in order to support itself, you will need fittings.  I recently made a strapless sun dress for a friend of mine (admittedly this was the most complicated sun dress I have ever come across - A Vogue pattern with 27 different pattern pieces) and with my mother, the seamstress taking it over due to the ridiculously tight time frame involved, we still both struggled to get this dress to fit properly with almost weekly fittings.  We got to the point of putting the dress on her, noting the required changes/pinning etc, making the alterations, putting it back on her, checking, amending etc multiple times each fitting. (Note to self: never agree to make three dresses in less than three months when every pattern requires modification or is overly complicated to begin
                                with!)  We ran out of time to make it 110% smooth and perfect but it stayed up, sat nicely, looked good on and she loved it.  Even with the experience of both me and my mother and the patience of our client, we both nearly ended up bald we tore our hair out so much with this dress and getting the foundation to the point where it was good enough for the dress to fit and be wearable.  We could quite easily have spent at least another month finenessing it to the point of perfection.

                                One good find from this project was the material I used on the foundation - horsehair interfacing.  Thick but not overly stiff - it, along with a few bones, helped make the dress look really nice and finished and definitely helped in giving that extra bit of stiffness for keeping a strapless dress in place. Check the pattern before you get too carried away with looking for a second pattern for a foundation garment - a lot of them may already have a foundation built into pattern.  I would definitely ask if you can have a look at the instruction sheets - as others have suggested, just explain what information you're wanting from them and with any luck, they'll show you or be able to give you some advice based around their own knowledge and experience.

                                As for the measurements...  I've learned only to trust measurements I take myself. When making things for overseas friends, I have had instances where a basic t-shirt dress dress meant for a petite size 8-10 (Australian) fitted their plus size 14-16 partner - and that was after I supplied a measurement chart and instructions!  Thankfully it was such a basic shape (and for a close friend) that in the end, they shipped me a t-shirt that had the fit they wanted when they sent the dress back and I picked the seams apart and hacked the dress down to the correct size based on that.  If your client is providing their own measurements, then make sure they understand that the finished product will be based on those measurements and that you can only make it based on what she tells you - with any luck, a run down of the things raised here will perhaps assist in persuading her to take the time to come to you for a fitting or two or accepting the added cost of
                                you going to her with the dress for fittings and definitely go with Sarah's suggestion of a deposit that covers your materials and first few hours of work on this project.

                                ________________________________
                                From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                                To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:56 AM
                                Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                                 
                                Do you know of any good patterns for the foundation garment I could use? Ideal fabrics? I know that coutil is used alot in corsets....

                                So the foundation is sewn into the side seams of the dress with a waist ribbon belt that is slightly smaller than the waist and closed with hook+eye..and obviously the dress is closed with whatever closure (zipper in my case)...is that right?

                                Usually when I buy patterns I get them online, but I've started to get them from the fabric department when I'm in the capitial. They are kept in a bunch of cabinets behind a sort of bar thing where they keep the catalogs so I dont think you're actually allowed to rummage for yourself, have to ask a staff member for the specific one you want. Could always ask next time I'm in there. :)

                                I refuse to so much as buy a button until I get those measurements, so all I can do is twiddle my thumbs and seek advice on this dress.

                                Fittings? I wish I had the luxury of such a thing. We live in separate areas of the country, so honestly the first time I'll know if it fits her properly on not is when she tries on the final garment.

                                This is my first time making something that isn't designed to fit me specifically.....This dress will make me have premature grey hairs at the end!

                                --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Yeah, like that. The foundation is like an almost-corset (it's not designed to squeeze you, just to fit really closely so your waist can support the dress) that is stiff enough to basically hang the dress off the top of it. So the bones go at least from the waist up to the top, to hold it up. The foundation will have its own pattern pieces, because it will have less ease than the dress bodice that you see, and if the dress has any style details like pleats or ruching, those obviously won't be in the foundation either.
                                > If the dress is really heavy like the one you are looking at making, you might want the foundation to extend down to the hip level, so the hips also help to support the dress. But the ribbon belt at the waist is also key, it may be as much as an inch tighter even than the foundation, firmly tacked to it at all the seams and here and there between, and closed with a big hook and eye or two.
                                >
                                > on looking at pattern instructions:
                                > I often sit down at the table by the pattern cabinets in the store, where the catalogs are, and take just the instruction sheets out, if I want to check what the pattern shapes are or something. Some things you can't tell from the line drawings. obviously I don't unfold the tissue, and I put everything back exactly as it was, so the next person won't be inconvenienced. I guess I'm also a regular enough customer so they know I'm not going to cause trouble! :D
                                >
                                > Not having accurate measurements is a big red light... You need those to start with, and they need to be taken over the bra or shaper she plans to wear under the finished costume. She needs to wear those for all the fittings too, from the first muslin to the final hem-check.
                                > I suggest not buying any materials before you get a sufficient deposit to cover them and your first few hours. Installments are good for everyone's cash flow...
                                > S
                                >
                                > On 11/19/2012 9:50 AM, Hazel Daniel wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Oh! You mean kinda like having a separate boned bodice sewn into the dress, kinda like a sandwich?
                                > >
                                > > Really? I thought you weren't allowed to remove the instructions in the shop. The nearest place that sells any sort of patterns in the capital, which is half hour train ride away.
                                > >
                                > > I don't even have accurate measurements for my client, she says she'll give them to me when she pays for the commission itself after christmas, end of december, the new year.
                                > >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Hazel Daniel
                                Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I ve found a pattern....
                                Message 15 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

                                  --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
                                  >  
                                  > Sheree
                                  >  
                                  > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                                  > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
                                  > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > Different pattern perhaps?
                                  >
                                  > I found this on the vogue website
                                  >
                                  > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
                                  >
                                  > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
                                  >
                                  > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Jim or Chris Porter
                                  There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Nov 23, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    There is a similar Vintage Vogue in the current catalog that does not seem to have the collar. Perhaps it is less origami-like?



                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                                    To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 3:59 AM
                                    Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help


                                     
                                    Awwwww man.......*headdesk* I swear someone up there has it in for me. Just when I think I've found a pattern....

                                    --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, slc_fire <slc_fire@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I've made this dress. It is a ROYAL bleep bleep BLEEEP.... it's a very difficult convoluted neckline. My mother is a professional seamstress and she was cussing like a sailor. It's a gorgeous dress but it takes serious patience and a bachelor degree in engineering to understand the neck. The pictures are deceiving. It’s almost like fabric origami. I’m not kidding. You have to cut, pinch, tuck, iron, and pray.
                                    >  
                                    > Sheree
                                    >  
                                    > Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Hazel Daniel <hazel.daniel@...>
                                    > To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 9:08 AM
                                    > Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Pattern Mod help
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > Different pattern perhaps?
                                    >
                                    > I found this on the vogue website
                                    >
                                    > http://voguepatterns.mccall.com/v2903-products-4894.php?page_id=850
                                    >
                                    > If I simply lengthen it and not pleat it, and bone the bodice to help support all the fabric in the skirt and sleeves as you kind folks have suggested.....would that work?
                                    >
                                    > I was a little put off before since its a fabric muncher, with the alterations I'll probably need about 10.....maybe 11 or 12 metres of fabric.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.