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Re; Looking for book resources

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  • alice.mcguinness
    Wow, thank you all for any directions you could and would give me. I hope to write 3 books. Each book will be about one of a set of triplet sisters. These
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 10, 2011
      Wow, thank you all for any directions you could and would give me. I hope to write 3 books. Each book will be about one of a set of triplet sisters. These sisters belong in a basically one family. Originally an English noble family that can trace their tree to the Norman Conquest. A branch of this family went to America prior to the Revolution. When ever their family line comes back together identical triplets are produced. Except they aren't really identical (this is a fiction book). In this first book, Blondie (name to be announced) is the superego type. Raised to know everything so she is not thought of as a dumb blonde. Her background is when her mother died by a drunk driver when she was visiting family in England, her husband began developing a time machine to go back and save her. The three girls are all but forgotten by him and family from both sides battle over raising them. Think of 3 girls being raised by Natgeo, the Science, History channels, scientists, professors, business executives. They are kidnapped from one side of the family by the other and whisked away to all sorts of amazing learning experiences until the courts step in an demand a plan that splits their time between the families. Any way, at almost 25, when they reach maturity and can inherit a boat load of money from their mother's will, one of the stipulations was that they could not cut their hair so their hair is fat curls to the floor. When the book opens, they have just completed their medical residency on the Good Ship Hope. The Ship spent most of that time in India so the girls were able to ID and treat illnesses not seen in modern cities. Blondie (not her real name)is intent on returning to India to help a village of Indian women become independant so she brought a huge variety of the Indian clothing they made to London to open a shop to give them a market for their beautiful clothing. (yes, she funds these Indian women to purchase silks, embellishments, etc... to make wonderful clothing). When she travels back to 1066, she is wearing a royal saxon gown (at the family's annual Feast of the Epiphany)and her trunk with Indian clothing. While at the party, the girls over hear a meeting of both sides of their family arguing over what to do with "them" because their father was in town to block their receiving their inheritance. The girls take off from the party, Blondie dragging a trunk to make sure it doesn't get lost. They are all intent on not allowing their relatives to control anymore. They don't intend to see their family again until they inherit in three days with short hair. They go to where they heard their father was renting a house nearly and ... end up stepping into the time machine. The Norman hero, as it turns out, is to be the first of their family line. (Hey, its a fiction,ya know), Any way, he has a diverse background as well. He has traveled with his twin brother and his guardian all over and was living in what is now Italy when his brother convinces him to join Williams' quest to reclaim their land in England. bla, bla, bla... The bad people include, a druid, two saxon brothers and their saxon ward who wants to get rid of Blondie and marry the Hero herself. A Norman lady that only now is interested in the Hero because of his success and new land in England. Oh, and a Norman priest that hates women. The people on her side are 3 slaves she freed, the granddaughter of the druid who is a wiccan priestess, a viking warrior, and a norman nun that just returned to the slave block in England from 20 years as a viking slave. The church doesn't want her anymore because...she didn't mutilate herself to save her virtue so she must have liked being raped according to midieval church beliefs. Blondie knows about materials and costomes and sewing, she just never cared about it until she is on ther own in a world where clothes are a status maker. The priestess and nun (are on different sides at the beginning but decide to join forces and hitch their wagon/life to making Blondie an independant woman to gain their own freedom from the evil men manipulating them. So they tell the men that she is a foreign princess. Later she has to continue this farce to keep herself safe from everyone whose rank is less than King William. When she goes back in time she is seen by the Druid who thinks she is the "goddess" come to earth to drive the Norman threat out but a snow storm hits. The Norman Hero and his brother were attacked when Edward the Confessor fell ill. They escaped and the saxon brothers' men are out looking for them just before the storm hits. The evil saxon men find Blondie instead and the Hero come out of hiding and saves her. They are in a small cave for 3 days in the storm (yes, she ends up pregnant)when the druid leads the saxons to the cave and drags them out. She thinks her Norman lover was drawn and quartered before her eyes. He is rescued, his brother is killed and when he returns after William lands, the saxon plot convinces him that Blondie is responsible for the assassination attempt against him and King William so the Hero brings the saxon evil woman with him when he returns to the fief. Blondie is basicially enslaved pending William sending permission for the Hero to hack off her head, she has hidden their 3 infant sons with nun in a nearby nunnery she gave her. At first she keeps escaping for her life then when she realizes she's safe until William is heard from, she tries to help the saxon people of the land under Hero's rule. One of the objects that arrives with his stuff a week or so after him makes it obvious that her brother was her lover. (not true but she believes that)and realizes that he is the first of her line so she is forced to protect him to protect all her family. The Saxon evil lady claimed all Blondie's clothes were stolen from her so all of Blondie's clothes are given over to Gertrude. Now Blondie cares about how she looks and has to make her clothes. She has plenty of helpers. The saxon priestess is always doing spells to combat the saxon evil lady's own witches' spills etc... The Hero's guardian is on Blondie's side as well and hot for the priestess. When William finally shows up, she has to dress like a royal princess so I was thinking that I would use some of the Indian cloth and incorporate it into a cotehardie because she is a foreign princess and therefore not wear the exact same style of clothing. I am reading bridal magazines to get terminology about how to discribe textures and fablics and embellishments. I feel stupid. Any thoughts?
    • Elizabeth Phillips
      You really shouldn t put the whole plot out there - someone s liable to steal it! ... From: alice.mcguinness Subject: [F-Costume]
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 10, 2011
        You really shouldn't put the whole plot out there - someone's liable to steal it!

        --- On Sat, 9/10/11, alice.mcguinness <alice.mcguinness@...> wrote:


        From: alice.mcguinness <alice.mcguinness@...>
        Subject: [F-Costume] Re; Looking for book resources
        To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, September 10, 2011, 6:20 PM


        Wow, thank you all for any directions you could and would give me.  I hope to write 3 books. Each book will be about one of a set of triplet sisters. These sisters belong in a basically one family. Originally an English noble family that can trace their tree to the Norman Conquest. A branch of this family went to America prior to the Revolution. When ever their family line comes back together identical triplets are produced.  Except they aren't really identical (this is a fiction book). In this first book, Blondie (name to be announced) is the superego type. Raised to know everything so she is not thought of as a dumb blonde.  Her background is when her mother died by a drunk driver when she was visiting family in England, her husband began developing a time machine to go back and save her.  The three girls are all but forgotten by him and family from both sides battle over raising them.  Think of 3 girls being raised by Natgeo, the Science, History
        channels, scientists, professors, business executives.  They are kidnapped from one side of the family by the other and whisked away to all sorts of amazing learning experiences until the courts step in an demand a plan that splits their time between the families.  Any way, at almost 25, when they reach maturity and can inherit a boat load of money from their mother's will, one of the stipulations was that they could not cut their hair so their hair is fat curls to the floor. When the book opens, they have just completed their medical residency on the Good Ship Hope. The Ship spent most of that time in India so the girls were able to ID and treat illnesses not seen in modern cities.  Blondie (not her real name)is intent on returning to India to help a village of Indian women become independant so she brought a huge variety of the Indian clothing they made to London to open a shop to give them a market for their beautiful clothing. (yes, she funds
        these Indian women to purchase silks, embellishments, etc... to make wonderful clothing).  When she travels back to 1066, she is wearing a royal saxon gown (at the family's annual Feast of the Epiphany)and her trunk with Indian clothing. While at the party, the girls over hear a meeting of both sides of their family arguing over what to do with "them" because their father was in town to block their receiving their inheritance.  The girls take off from the party, Blondie dragging a trunk to make sure it doesn't get lost.  They are all intent on not allowing their relatives to control anymore. They don't intend to see their family again until they inherit in three days with short hair. They go to where they heard their father was renting a house nearly and ... end up stepping into the time machine.  The Norman hero, as it turns out, is to be the first of their family line. (Hey, its a fiction,ya know), Any way, he has a diverse background as well. 
        He has traveled with his twin brother and his guardian all over and was living in what is now Italy when his brother convinces him to join Williams' quest to reclaim their land in England. bla, bla, bla... The bad people include, a druid, two saxon brothers and their saxon ward who wants to get rid of Blondie and marry the Hero herself. A Norman lady that only now is interested in the Hero because of his success and new land in England. Oh, and a Norman priest that hates women.  The people on her side are 3 slaves she freed, the granddaughter of the druid who is a wiccan priestess, a viking warrior, and a norman nun that just returned to the slave block in England from 20 years as a viking slave.  The church doesn't want her anymore because...she didn't mutilate herself to save her virtue so she must have liked being raped according to midieval church beliefs. Blondie knows about materials and costomes and sewing, she just never cared about it until
        she is on ther own in a world where clothes are a status maker.  The priestess and nun (are on different sides at the beginning but decide to join forces and hitch their wagon/life to making Blondie an independant woman to gain their own freedom from the evil men manipulating them.  So they tell the men that she is a foreign princess. Later she has to continue this farce to keep herself safe from everyone whose rank is less than King William.  When she goes back in time she is seen by the Druid who thinks she is the "goddess" come to earth to drive the Norman threat out but a snow storm hits. The Norman Hero and his brother were attacked when Edward the Confessor fell ill. They escaped and the saxon brothers' men are out looking for them just before the storm hits.  The evil saxon men find Blondie instead and the Hero come out of hiding and saves her. They are in a small cave for 3 days in the storm (yes, she ends up pregnant)when the druid leads
        the saxons to the cave and drags them out.  She thinks her Norman lover was drawn and quartered before her eyes. He is rescued, his brother is killed and when he returns after William lands, the saxon plot convinces him that Blondie is responsible for the assassination attempt against him and King William so the Hero brings the saxon evil woman with him when he returns to the fief.  Blondie is basicially enslaved pending William sending permission for the Hero to hack off her head, she has hidden their 3 infant sons with nun in a nearby nunnery she gave her. At first she keeps escaping for her life then when she realizes she's safe until William is heard from, she tries to help the saxon people of the land under Hero's rule. One of the objects that arrives with his stuff a week or so after him makes it obvious that her brother was her lover. (not true but she believes that)and realizes that he is the first of her line so she is forced to protect him
        to protect all her family.  The Saxon evil lady claimed all Blondie's clothes were stolen from her so all of Blondie's clothes are given over to Gertrude. Now Blondie cares about how she looks and  has to make her clothes.  She has plenty of helpers. The saxon priestess is always doing spells to combat the saxon evil lady's own witches' spills etc... The Hero's guardian is on Blondie's side as well and hot for the priestess.  When William finally shows up, she has to dress like a royal princess so I was thinking that I would use some of the Indian cloth and incorporate it into a cotehardie because she is a foreign princess and therefore not wear the exact same style of clothing.   I am reading bridal magazines to get terminology about how to discribe textures and fablics and embellishments.  I feel stupid.  Any thoughts?     



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cat Devereaux
        ... Ooops... still sorting out what you re asking... you need info dress during the Normal Conquest (1000aprx) England??? Italy? India, when??? (or you re ok
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 10, 2011
          On 9/10/2011 3:20 PM, alice.mcguinness wrote:
          > ... These sisters belong in a basically one family. Originally an
          > English noble family that can trace their tree to the Norman Conquest.
          > A branch of this family went to America prior to the Revolution....

          Ooops... still sorting out what you're asking... you need info dress
          during the Normal Conquest (1000aprx) England??? Italy? India, when???
          (or you're ok on that part?)

          Who's she dressing? Just royalty?

          FYI, since it sounds like this is set during a time that the "silk road"
          was rather fractured do to politics in center areas, the silk fabrics
          will be exceeding rare.

          >> I am reading bridal magazines to get terminology about how to
          discribe textures and fablics and embellishments

          Do you have much sewing experience??? ie, looking for basic terms, or
          just historical details?

          The weight of the fabrics is going to matter, what was being worn in
          colder England, and more conservative is a lot different than the more
          acceptable shears in India. I've found a modern list of the weights.
          Terms for fabric type are modern, but it gives you which fabrics are
          which weight. Look under the definition of momme weight here:
          http://www.texeresilk.com/cms-silk_information_dictionary.html

          If you're just at the beginning of your studies... actually found
          Wikipedia has the terms with a few basics, and not the extra
          clutter... yuur book takes place at a transiton time, dress is France
          and England are going to be different.
          - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_dress
          - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_medieval_European_dress

          T tunic historic basics -
          http://forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML - quick
          summary of fabric and cut matters. Nothing goes to waste. Something
          really important for then. Loom width mattered. Cotehardies are about
          2 centuries in the future.

          Im not sure there's a book on just the 11th century costume. For a
          starter book I normally recommend Kohler.
          http://www.amazon.com/History-Costume-Carl-Kohler/dp/0486210308 (yea,
          purest I know it's not totally accurate.) It's a deceit summary, more
          detailed and accurate than most $12 costume books.. and something
          inexpencive to add to your library. (It has redrawn art examples, and
          some real photos.) The problem for your specific case... he's covering
          Germany at that time, and quickly.

          I think a good chunk of goggling could get your more info, especially
          some of the SCA links. You find a lot of the top links, all have a same
          bits of do-dah, then you can get some extra bits with a bit more research.

          -Cat-

          (Sorry there's not more - still doing one handed typing w/ a broken hand
          - can't really even do cut and paste yet... maybe others can suggest a
          few more links, or book that might have the bits your looking for.)
        • Judy Mitchell
          whoa! really hard to read that much info without paragraph breaks. here area a bunch of websites that may be of help to you:
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 11, 2011
            whoa! really hard to read that much info without paragraph breaks.

            here area a bunch of websites that may be of help to you:

            http://www.octavia.net/9thclife/Clothing.htm - Saxon womens' clothes

            http://garbindex.com/bliaut/ - overgarment worn from the eleventh to the
            thirteenth century Western Europe

            http://www.cottesimple.com/ -An exploration of clothing and accessories
            of the late 14th and early 15th centuries

            http://www.theweebsite.com/cotelande/index.html -Cotehardie & Houppelande



            -Judy
          • alice.mcguinness
            ... Conquest. ... road ... The character has to be royally dressed but since she is not from there her dress needs to look a little different. That s why I
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 11, 2011
              --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > On 9/10/2011 3:20 PM, alice.mcguinness wrote:
              > > ... These sisters belong in a basically one family. Originally an
              > > English noble family that can trace their tree to the Norman
              Conquest.
              > > A branch of this family went to America prior to the Revolution....
              >
              > Ooops... still sorting out what you're asking... you need info dress
              > during the Normal Conquest (1000aprx) England??? Italy? India, when???
              > (or you're ok on that part?)
              >
              > Who's she dressing? Just royalty?
              >
              > FYI, since it sounds like this is set during a time that the "silk
              road"
              > was rather fractured do to politics in center areas, the silk fabrics
              > will be exceeding rare.
              >
              > >> I am reading bridal magazines to get terminology about how to
              > discribe textures and fablics and embellishments
              >
              > Do you have much sewing experience??? ie, looking for basic terms, or
              > just historical details?
              >
              > The weight of the fabrics is going to matter, what was being worn in
              > colder England, and more conservative is a lot different than the more
              > acceptable shears in India. I've found a modern list of the weights.
              > Terms for fabric type are modern, but it gives you which fabrics are
              > which weight. Look under the definition of momme weight here:
              > http://www.texeresilk.com/cms-silk_information_dictionary.html
              >
              > If you're just at the beginning of your studies... actually found
              > Wikipedia has the terms with a few basics, and not the extra
              > clutter... yuur book takes place at a transiton time, dress is France
              > and England are going to be different.
              > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_dress
              > - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_medieval_European_dress
              >
              > T tunic historic basics -
              > http://forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML - quick
              > summary of fabric and cut matters. Nothing goes to waste. Something
              > really important for then. Loom width mattered. Cotehardies are about
              > 2 centuries in the future.
              > Sorry, I hit something and I think I sent an unfinished reply to you.
              The character has to be royally dressed but since she is not from
              "there" her dress needs to look a little different. That's why I
              thought about using the Cotehardies.
              > Im not sure there's a book on just the 11th century costume. For a
              > starter book I normally recommend Kohler.
              > http://www.amazon.com/History-Costume-Carl-Kohler/dp/0486210308 (yea,
              > purest I know it's not totally accurate.) It's a deceit summary, more
              > detailed and accurate than most $12 costume books.. and something
              > inexpencive to add to your library. (It has redrawn art examples, and
              > some real photos.) The problem for your specific case... he's covering
              > Germany at that time, and quickly.
              >
              > I think a good chunk of goggling could get your more info, especially
              > some of the SCA links. You find a lot of the top links, all have a
              same
              > bits of do-dah, then you can get some extra bits with a bit more
              research.
              >
              > -Cat-
              >
              > (Sorry there's not more - still doing one handed typing w/ a broken
              hand
              > - can't really even do cut and paste yet... maybe others can suggest a
              > few more links, or book that might have the bits your looking for.)
              >
              Thank you so very much. I hope your hand is mending well and not
              painful anymore.

              I ordered from Aurora Advanced Nature Dye Kit to help me understand more
              about colors and their sample kit of natural silk swatches. There
              website is www.aurorasilk.com <http://www.aurorasilk.com>

              Thank you so very much for your time and expertise.

              What dresses have you made?

              Alice



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Aly/Cemper
              I am a member of the SCA I play an earlier character 800 or so Celt/Irish. The garb of the time period changed little over the next couple hundred years. Two
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 11, 2011
                I am a member of the SCA I "play" an earlier character 800 or so Celt/Irish.

                The garb of the time period changed little over the next couple hundred years. Two other books I recommend are: 
                Historic Costumes and How to Make Them. Fernald and Shenton.ISBN-10: 0486449068
                Medieval Costume and How to Create Them. Hartley. ISBN-10: 0486429857
                and one that I really liked since I'm more of a visual person.

                Patterns for Theatrical Costumes: Garments, Trims, and Accessories from Ancient Egypt to 1915. Holkeboer.

                ISBN-10:0896761258In terms of making garb over costumes there is a HUGE difference. One there is a lot less, bling, I guess you could say in garb. The fabrics are natural: silk, linen, wool and leather. The styles seemed much simpler to my costuming eye and the way the items are sewn together is much more complex at times i.e. Tudor. I had never done so much hand sewing then I did with the SCA. 11th c. is a slightly simpler pattern but do remember, as Cat said, they used every bit of fabric. One of the methods used in the SCA is to go into the paintings and look at the fashions during that time. The area the painting was done will tell you what the people wore (and how the monks wished people would look). Most people wore a chemise, a kirtle and a (what we would now call a cotehardie) or over T-tunic.
                When making your T-tunic, make several muslims and then make a pattern off the one that serves you best. All other garb can be made from that. You can also run into the 4 paneled "dress."  The biggest problem in going back in time is that there are paintings of what people wore, but realistically, not everyone wore the exact same thing and exact same style anymore then what people wear in different places today. I live in AK and we wear alot of flannel, fleece and fur, but we don't all wear that exact same style.
                Hope this helps (sorry for any repeats-I've only had one cup of coffee)
                ~Cemper


                 
                One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                ________________________________
                From: alice.mcguinness <alice.mcguinness@...>
                To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:23 AM
                Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Re; Looking for book resources


                 



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