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Re: [F-Costume] Re: Stardust - Tristan's Costume

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  • Cat Devereaux
    ... Don t do standard knife pleats, you want them to flare. So, you re cut and spread is going to put most of the separation on the bottom of the pleat.
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 23, 2009
      >> On to the coat...
      >> 3) Split the center back below the waist.
      >> 4) Add 3 knife pleats to the back of the skirt on both sides.

      Don't do standard knife pleats, you want them to flare. So, you're cut
      and spread is going to put most of the separation on the bottom of the
      pleat. http://www.vintagesewing.info/1940s/4x-lgcm/illust/112.jpg (Pic
      is from this page:
      http://www.vintagesewing.info/1940s/4x-lgcm/lgcm-10.html )

      -Cat-
    • jlmonolith
      OK, I see what you re saying, and that makes sense. Thanks for the idea! ... the ... lining ... other
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 23, 2009
        OK, I see what you're saying, and that makes sense. Thanks for the
        idea!

        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Sarah Strong <sarahstrong13@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > about the pleats in the back and the lining, I think what you would do
        > is assemble the body above the waist, including the lining, but don't
        > baste the layers together at the waist. Assemble the tails, including
        > the lining, do baste the layers together at the waist, and then make
        the
        > pleats and set the tails onto the body at the waist. Sew the pleated
        > tails (fabric and lining) to the fabric of the body and leave the
        lining
        > free. Then turn in the edge of the lining and hand sew it over the
        other
        > raw edges.
        > Can't wait to see pix!!
        > S
        >
      • jlmonolith
        I see how this will cause the bottom to flare, but is that really necessary to do along with the pleating? I figured the way the pleats unfold at the bottom
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 23, 2009
          I see how this will cause the bottom to flare, but is that really
          necessary to do along with the pleating? I figured the way the pleats
          unfold at the bottom would cause enough flare action as they open up
          without having to add any extra length along the bottom. This is what I
          see happening with a kilt that I own, and I measured those pleats to see
          that they are in fact rectangular from top to bottom.

          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > >> On to the coat...
          > >> 3) Split the center back below the waist.
          > >> 4) Add 3 knife pleats to the back of the skirt on both sides.
          >
          > Don't do standard knife pleats, you want them to flare. So, you're cut
          > and spread is going to put most of the separation on the bottom of the
          > pleat. http://www.vintagesewing.info/1940s/4x-lgcm/illust/112.jpg
          (Pic
          > is from this page:
          > http://www.vintagesewing.info/1940s/4x-lgcm/lgcm-10.html )
          >
          > -Cat-
          >
        • Cat Devereaux
          ... necessary to do along with the pleating? I figured the way the pleats unfold at the bottom would cause enough flare action as they open up without having
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 24, 2009
            >> I see how this will cause the bottom to flare, but is that really
            necessary to do along with the pleating? I figured the way the pleats
            unfold at the bottom would cause enough flare action as they open up
            without having to add any extra length along the bottom.

            Sorry... that pic isn't quite exact enough. Yes, definately you
            can/should still do the pleats.... but a standard knife pleat is even
            width from top to bottom. You want to flare those pleats. Cut and
            spread so the top is much more narrow than the bottom... that gives you
            the fancy flare cure. No, not extra length along the bottom.... a
            trick actually is to make it a scoch shorter... so when the bias cut of
            the pleated piece doesn't stretch out below the hem of the outer layer.


            >> This is what I
            see happening with a kilt that I own, and I measured those pleats to see
            that they are in fact rectangular from top to bottom.

            Yes, a pleated kilt will do somewhat the same thing... but also
            remember, a kilt has a lot more pleats. That circular cut to the
            pleating is a tradition in 17-19 century coats. The modern vent or
            single straight pleat reduces the flamboyance and is used for more
            modern coats.

            I've added a few pics to illustrate including a line drawing of a
            17th(?) century coat pattern. You can see the pleating more accurately
            there.

            ( I haven't a clue where these were from. They were in my private
            stash. Aplogees from all they were swiped from. )

            -Cat-
          • Sarah Strong
            Kilt pleats are in fact very slightly tapered, although it s hard to see because each one is so small. Below the sewn area, they are pressed right along the
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 24, 2009
              Kilt pleats are in fact very slightly tapered, although it's hard to see
              because each one is so small. Below the sewn area, they are pressed
              right along the stripe, at least on the outside, but in the sewn area,
              the top is smaller than the bottom. If it wasn't the kilt would fall
              off. It does have to be done very smoothly so there isn't a bubble at
              the bottom of the sewing or ripples below it. Done right, the kilt fits
              between the waist and hip, and then falls with just a tiny, tiny flare
              below.
              Test the coat pleats in your mockup to see what hangs and looks best.
              S

              jlmonolith wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > I see how this will cause the bottom to flare, but is that really
              > necessary to do along with the pleating? I figured the way the pleats
              > unfold at the bottom would cause enough flare action as they open up
              > without having to add any extra length along the bottom. This is what I
              > see happening with a kilt that I own, and I measured those pleats to see
              > that they are in fact rectangular from top to bottom.
              >
            • jlmonolith
              I need some help figuring out how to construct this back part of the coat. Here s a picture with some markings of what I m talking about:
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 7, 2009
                I need some help figuring out how to construct this back part of the coat. Here's a picture with some markings of what I'm talking about:
                http://i27.tinypic.com/1zxr2ib.jpg

                It's the part circled in red that I can't seem to figure out how it fits in with everything else. I understand the pleats on the skirt, and what's highlighted in green is all one piece. But is that bit circled in red an extension of the skirt, or maybe part of the center back/tail, or is it another piece all by itself? The skirt and the tail have to be attached, so that makes fitting in this extra piece more confusing. And if it is part of the skirt, is the skirt piece still rectangular on that end, or are there some special angles cut into there to make that work? This is why I need some help.

                - Jeffrey
              • Cat Devereaux
                (long reply ahead, teaching content involved.) ... coat. Here s a picture with some markings of what I m talking about:
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 7, 2009
                  (long reply ahead, teaching content involved.)

                  >> I need some help figuring out how to construct this back part of the
                  coat. Here's a picture with some markings of what I'm talking about:
                  <http://i27.tinypic.com/1zxr2ib.jpg>

                  Don't feel back about it... I hadn't a clue either... but was in the
                  mood for a challenge.

                  Since the search did take a couple of hours (but hey, new knowledge is
                  always good), I'm going to explain how I found it soooooooooo folks can
                  do like searches in the future. I was thinking best I could do would be
                  able to find a line drawing of a commercial pattern... so I went to
                  our friend Google... and started with variations of "British Military
                  Uniforms" because I though that's where I'd seen the detailing.
                  Anyway... fumbling though their suggestions on variation of History (to
                  get rid of the modern) and frock coat (with and w/o spacing), went to
                  Tail Coat even though that's the wrong term... BUT... follow Google's
                  suggestions... they take you places, good places. The links sent me to
                  a cosplay board... and then back to a site we don't mention often
                  enough... Costumer's Manifesto ( www.costumes.org ). They're a great
                  place to go for an intro look into a historic period and then some deep
                  and fab info that expands on that overview. One warning, they may have
                  more pages than we do.

                  Anyway... on to the discovery that's already been bookmarked,
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1893to1898cuttersguide.htm
                  . The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting Every Kind of Garment Made,
                  1893-1898 by W. D. F. Vincent . And ya know... for once... the title
                  claim is not an exaggerations. The book itself is out of print, but
                  there are scans available. (I want a hard copy!!!!!) OK.... Snoopy
                  happy dance over... search tips bit over... on to da question.

                  */
                  /*http://i27.tinypic.com/1zxr2ib.jpg
                  <http://i27.tinypic.com/1zxr2ib.jpg> It's the part circled in red that
                  I can't seem to figure out how it fits in with everything else. I
                  understand the pleats on the skirt, and what's highlighted in green is
                  all one piece. But is that bit circled in red an extension of the skirt,
                  or maybe part of the center back/tail, or is it another piece all by
                  itself? The skirt and the tail have to be attached, so that makes
                  fitting in this extra piece more confusing. And if it is part of the
                  skirt, is the skirt piece still rectangular on that end, or are there
                  some special angles cut into there to make that work?

                  On the link above... look at Part 13, The Cutter's Practical Guide to
                  Cutting & Making all kinds of British Military Uniforms.
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/index.htm or
                  the whole 8 plus megs in one gulp,
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/pdf/13_00_vol13.pdf .

                  Some vocabulary:
                  - The jacket is called a "tunic" most times, though sometimes "doublet"
                  - The lower section of the tunic below the waist is the "skirt"
                  - The upper section of the tunic is the "body"
                  - That fun bit with the points, is a "sword flap"

                  See the "sword flap" inserted into coat detail on page 8.... it's a
                  double point, but same thing. It shows extra seams in the tunic skirt
                  to insert the small piece that has the sword flap. The whole skirt is
                  then attached to the body. In this example there's about 1" that shows
                  clear. Since Tristan's skirt is more flared, it's probably much
                  narrower at the join of the body and skirt. (Note, it also talked about
                  the flap being shorter than the rest of the skirt... we talked about
                  this before when talking about Tristan's coat). More on page 9.

                  Page 8,
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_08.htm
                  Page 9,
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_09.htm

                  The extra gem is on page 13,
                  http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_13.htm

                  The pattern piece is laid on sideways on the coat pattern. Note the
                  letters show the join points at the center back.

                  Hope that helps w/ your basic question.

                  ******************************
                  To anyone who's still reading... part two of the mail is coming latter
                  this afternoon... basically... why you want to bookmark this scanned
                  book... if you care about fitting or tailoring... or steampunk (yea,
                  seriously).

                  More later... I'm having too much fun going though the books right now.

                  -Cat-
                • slc_fire
                  OMG Cat where was this fabu piece of research before Dragon Con!! Love it! Thanks. I am so going to read every bit of it! Sheree Life may not be the party
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 7, 2009
                    OMG Cat where was this fabu piece of research before Dragon Con!! Love it! Thanks. I am so going to read every bit of it!

                    Sheree Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!




                    ________________________________
                    From: Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...>
                    To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, September 7, 2009 4:59:47 PM
                    Subject: Re: [F-Costume] Re: Stardust - Tristan's Costume

                     
                    (long reply ahead, teaching content involved.)

                    >> I need some help figuring out how to construct this back part of the
                    coat. Here's a picture with some markings of what I'm talking about:
                    <http://i27.tinypic com/1zxr2ib. jpg>

                    Don't feel back about it... I hadn't a clue either... but was in the
                    mood for a challenge.

                    Since the search did take a couple of hours (but hey, new knowledge is
                    always good), I'm going to explain how I found it soooooooooo folks can
                    do like searches in the future. I was thinking best I could do would be
                    able to find a line drawing of a commercial pattern... so I went to
                    our friend Google... and started with variations of "British Military
                    Uniforms" because I though that's where I'd seen the detailing.
                    Anyway... fumbling though their suggestions on variation of History (to
                    get rid of the modern) and frock coat (with and w/o spacing), went to
                    Tail Coat even though that's the wrong term... BUT... follow Google's
                    suggestions. .. they take you places, good places. The links sent me to
                    a cosplay board... and then back to a site we don't mention often
                    enough... Costumer's Manifesto ( www.costumes. org ). They're a great
                    place to go for an intro look into a historic period and then some deep
                    and fab info that expands on that overview. One warning, they may have
                    more pages than we do.

                    Anyway... on to the discovery that's already been bookmarked,
                    http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1893to1898cuttersguide.htm
                    . The Cutter's Practical Guide to Cutting Every Kind of Garment Made,
                    1893-1898 by W. D. F. Vincent . And ya know... for once... the title
                    claim is not an exaggerations. The book itself is out of print, but
                    there are scans available. (I want a hard copy!!!!!) OK.... Snoopy
                    happy dance over... search tips bit over... on to da question.

                    */
                    /*http://i27.tinypic com/1zxr2ib. jpg
                    <http://i27.tinypic com/1zxr2ib. jpg> It's the part circled in red that
                    I can't seem to figure out how it fits in with everything else. I
                    understand the pleats on the skirt, and what's highlighted in green is
                    all one piece. But is that bit circled in red an extension of the skirt,
                    or maybe part of the center back/tail, or is it another piece all by
                    itself? The skirt and the tail have to be attached, so that makes
                    fitting in this extra piece more confusing. And if it is part of the
                    skirt, is the skirt piece still rectangular on that end, or are there
                    some special angles cut into there to make that work?

                    On the link above... look at Part 13, The Cutter's Practical Guide to
                    Cutting & Making all kinds of British Military Uniforms.
                    http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/index.htm or
                    the whole 8 plus megs in one gulp,
                    http://www.costumes .org/history/ victorian/ CPG/13/pdf/ 13_00_vol13. pdf .

                    Some vocabulary:
                    - The jacket is called a "tunic" most times, though sometimes "doublet"
                    - The lower section of the tunic below the waist is the "skirt"
                    - The upper section of the tunic is the "body"
                    - That fun bit with the points, is a "sword flap"

                    See the "sword flap" inserted into coat detail on page 8.... it's a
                    double point, but same thing. It shows extra seams in the tunic skirt
                    to insert the small piece that has the sword flap. The whole skirt is
                    then attached to the body. In this example there's about 1" that shows
                    clear. Since Tristan's skirt is more flared, it's probably much
                    narrower at the join of the body and skirt. (Note, it also talked about
                    the flap being shorter than the rest of the skirt... we talked about
                    this before when talking about Tristan's coat). More on page 9.

                    Page 8,
                    http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_08.htm
                    Page 9,
                    http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_09.htm

                    The extra gem is on page 13,
                    http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_13.htm

                    The pattern piece is laid on sideways on the coat pattern. Note the
                    letters show the join points at the center back.

                    Hope that helps w/ your basic question.

                    ************ ********* *********
                    To anyone who's still reading... part two of the mail is coming latter
                    this afternoon... basically... why you want to bookmark this scanned
                    book... if you care about fitting or tailoring... or steampunk (yea,
                    seriously).

                    More later... I'm having too much fun going though the books right now.

                    -Cat-







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sarah Strong
                    WOW, what a fabboo resource! I notice that in each case it has the actual draft, how to draw each pattern piece to your measurements, so you aren t stuck with
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 7, 2009
                      WOW, what a fabboo resource! I notice that in each case it has the
                      actual draft, how to draw each pattern piece to your measurements, so
                      you aren't stuck with just blowing up a single size and hoping it fits you.

                      Cat Devereaux wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > (long reply ahead, teaching content involved.)
                      >
                      [snip]
                    • Cat Devereaux
                      Actually the title is to just get folks to read this continuation of the last message... but I really am going to talk about Steampunk design tips. Book link:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 7, 2009
                        Actually the title is to just get folks to read this continuation of the
                        last message... but I really am going to talk about Steampunk design tips.

                        Book link:
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1893to1898cuttersguide.htm
                        *The Cutter's Practical Guide 1893-1898/ by W. D. F. Vincent

                        /*To continue talking about part 13, the making of British Military
                        Uniforms, skim the pictures... there are all kinds of braid, cuff,
                        collar examples to inspire you to make any pattern that's vaguely
                        Victorian, more Victorian, more snazzed up. (Heck, I'm adding this kind
                        of braiding to a store bought jacket.) You can pick up a basic
                        coat/vest in a thrift shop... and convert it.


                        OK... now some notes on other parts... in no particular rambling order...

                        Part 10: http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/10/gallery/index.htm

                        First yummy part, fitting a vest. Why should you care??? Two reasons.

                        For Steampunk, lots of neat shapes for vests, excuse me waist coats, and
                        you can see the pattern shapes.
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/10/gallery/pages/10_02.htm
                        Take a vest that kinds fits you, tweak the pattern pieces making
                        shoulders wider, adding a collar, changing the buttoning in front, etc.
                        By seeing the pattern pieces, even if they look so weirdly shaped, you
                        know you're on the right path.
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/10/gallery/pages/10_30.htm

                        And then note what that section is actually showing... wrinkles and
                        where you should adjust fit wise!!!!! Hey, this isn't just for vest...
                        it's for regular jackets, dresses... the wrinkles are in the same
                        place. You can see where the fabric is added and where it's taken
                        away. Yes, you can buy this in current books, but... this is free and
                        as close as a bookmark away.

                        What's also cool... the vest section, just like the uniforms section
                        talks about acomidating different sizes... ie mods for plus size
                        patterning, and other non standard shapping.

                        What is fun is also reading the listing and details for the morning
                        version, vs. evening vs. court, verse job type. Amazing amount of
                        details. Not only is it good to know when you're making a historical
                        garment... but it you're going the opposite direction, picking a style
                        and trying to figure out your Steampunk character, what you're chosing,
                        you can give yourself an idea based on what you're wearing. ;-)

                        *************************************
                        All about coats: http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1893cutters2a.htm
                        Lots of detail about the arm scye, ease. The text really helps you with
                        fit because it's not just talking about the measurements, but how the
                        measurements work together with scale on your body. Frustratingly the
                        pics are separate from most of the text, and you can't just hit next.
                        BUT, worth it. This section has wonderfully detailed instructions on how
                        to apply the measurements and considerations to fit and shape.
                        *****************************
                        trousers: http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/3/gallery/index.htm

                        Layout is easier to browse.
                        Lots of details on how to make the seat work, the build up you need for
                        suspenders to work right. All the bits of inner lining for pockets, how
                        to do a button front fly in total with options of single, double, full
                        front, all kinds of detail, trouser legs, including how to make popper
                        bell bottoms. !!!!

                        If you're obsessive with fit... he gets down into the details. Shows
                        the skeleton structure and how it fits. Show how the body flexes in
                        sitting and bending. He goes into a bit on grading a pattern,
                        different cutting systems. Your eyeballs with spin, or if you're into
                        details, you'll fall in lust.

                        Also patterning tips for riding breaches. Patterns for knickerbockers
                        and also spats and gators (think boot covers, but these are the original
                        ones). There's a military pattern version of a highland kilt,

                        Fun page, the different shapes of the coat skirt:
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/1893cutterspractguide/10.jpg
                        from a morning to a frock coat to tails, to livery... all together in
                        one page to look at the shape.
                        **************************************************
                        Part 9: Various Kinds of Robes, Gowns, Surplices, Hoods, Vestments :
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1898cuttersguide9c.htm I almost
                        skipped. The first part looks more like regular coat jackets, but then
                        you get into things that are good for costumes again. There's the
                        section on academic robes that got all kinds of fun shapes and
                        decorations, as well as how to make those tight perfect pleats you see
                        on judges and graduation robes.

                        There's also a fair bit of clerical detail... but even more in section
                        12: http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/12/gallery/index.htm

                        This also has clerical cloaks and also has "solicitor robes" (ie garb
                        for lawyers - eek, that brings up some thoughts for scary costumes.)
                        Some of the pattern shapes are odd, it's nice to have the diagrams.

                        ************************************
                        Shirts... part 11:
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/c1898cuttersguide11a.htm

                        All kinds of shirts and how to measure and ease.
                        Collar and cuff styles:
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/cutterspracticalguide10_11/gallery/pages/11_23.htm
                        It's a joy. All the little bits of modification. detached or just
                        convert to a sewn on version.
                        Also, bits of pajamas, robes (those are silly), a surprise set of
                        pattern -- combinations (jumpsuit), overalls. They're just quick
                        patterns, you need to go to other sections for more details on how to
                        work the measurements, etc.

                        *************************************************
                        I almost skipped 9... looked so boring at first. Full title: The
                        Cutter's Practical Guide to Jacket Cutting and Making, Embracing
                        Lounges, Reefers & Patrol Jackets, in all their Varieties, Also
                        Including the Cutting and Making of Robes and Gown
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/1898cuttersguide9a.htm

                        That really looses something in the translation to modern English. The
                        basic part cover something closer to a modern suit jacket (with no
                        fitting seams in front and back). OK, so the first part is rather
                        boring standard Victorian... then... wonderful stuff for Steampunk ideas.

                        The belted Norfolk jackets;
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/cutterspt9/33.jpg Described
                        as for cycling and the sportsman w/ a gun. (Can it be a plasma gun?)
                        http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/cutterspt9/35.jpg

                        Highland Jacket pattern, and Highland Dress Jacket patterns.

                        Various fun sporting options for your Steampunk character.

                        ***********************************
                        Anyway... just some fun reading... give you some ideas for Halloween.
                        Use these pages to help decorate and modify current clothing.

                        -Cat-
                      • jlmonolith
                        Thank you so much for taking your time to find this! I ll have to take some time later to really read over it and understand all of what s being described,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 8, 2009
                          Thank you so much for taking your time to find this! I'll have to take some time later to really read over it and understand all of what's being described, but this seems like the right direction to go in. And now with this site, I'll be sure to also look up other parts I'm still not quite sure about.

                          Thanks again. :)

                          - Jeffrey

                          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > (long reply ahead, teaching content involved.)
                          >
                          > [...]
                          >
                          > On the link above... look at Part 13, The Cutter's Practical Guide to
                          > Cutting & Making all kinds of British Military Uniforms.
                          > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/index.htm or
                          > the whole 8 plus megs in one gulp,
                          > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/pdf/13_00_vol13.pdf .
                          >
                          > Some vocabulary:
                          > - The jacket is called a "tunic" most times, though sometimes "doublet"
                          > - The lower section of the tunic below the waist is the "skirt"
                          > - The upper section of the tunic is the "body"
                          > - That fun bit with the points, is a "sword flap"
                          >
                          > See the "sword flap" inserted into coat detail on page 8.... it's a
                          > double point, but same thing. It shows extra seams in the tunic skirt
                          > to insert the small piece that has the sword flap. The whole skirt is
                          > then attached to the body. In this example there's about 1" that shows
                          > clear. Since Tristan's skirt is more flared, it's probably much
                          > narrower at the join of the body and skirt. (Note, it also talked about
                          > the flap being shorter than the rest of the skirt... we talked about
                          > this before when talking about Tristan's coat). More on page 9.
                          >
                          > Page 8,
                          > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_08.htm
                          > Page 9,
                          > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_09.htm
                          >
                          > The extra gem is on page 13,
                          > http://www.costumes.org/history/victorian/CPG/13/gallery/pages/13_13.htm
                          >
                          > The pattern piece is laid on sideways on the coat pattern. Note the
                          > letters show the join points at the center back.
                          >
                          > Hope that helps w/ your basic question.
                          >
                          > [...]
                          >
                          > -Cat-
                          >
                        • Cat Devereaux
                          ... It was fun... even if it sucked up the better part of the day... It had been quite a while since I d looked at that book. Filed in my brain under
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 9, 2009
                            >> Thank you so much for taking your time to find this!

                            It was fun... even if it sucked up the better part of the day... It had
                            been quite a while since I'd looked at that book. Filed in my brain
                            under Historic, Guys, and then promptly dismissed. BUT, when Steampunk
                            being hot, whole sections become interesting for style and decoration.

                            I may have to dig past the dust into some of my books from that era.
                            Dover reprints a lot of those book. Stuff like the reprints of the
                            Sears catalog are just delicious for ideas. A big discovery is how many
                            trims are STILL created today, even if they're in different fibers..

                            >> I'll have to take some time later to really read over it and
                            understand all of what's being described, but this seems like the right
                            direction to go in. And now with this site, I'll be sure to also look up
                            other parts I'm still not quite sure about.

                            Sounds good. I just skimmed it, sections of it are good for womens
                            fittings as well... since the best reference for women,
                            www.vintagesewing.org (1040's section), presents a lot of the same
                            information much faster and more condesnced. It causes my eyes to
                            spin... so someone trying to graduate up from patterns might want to
                            start with these books, and then hit the pattern mods in the 1940 books.

                            -Cat-
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