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Re: [F-Costume] Re: Stardust: Yvaine's Stardust gown

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  • Cat Devereaux
    ... particularly, had to fit like a glove without any fastenings. Which meant that it had to go on over her head and still look like it fitted her perfectly.
    Message 1 of 30 , Aug 31, 2007
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      >> "With Claire we had quite a few fittings because that dress,
      particularly, had to fit like a glove without any fastenings. Which
      meant that it had to go on over her head and still look like it fitted
      her perfectly."

      (Good catch. I've ordered the book from Amazon.)

      Wow, that's quite a fit. There are some 90-95% silks with some Lycra
      in in, but the ones I've seen are so much thinner and lighter a hand.
      Hummmmmm

      That makes a good case for trying to find a Lycra to use. That's
      extreme fitting... and is only going to work on someone who's shoulders
      are too broad.

      Another option then would be to put in a side zipper (invisible), or if
      you're not fussy, add a seam in the back (cause any princess seam
      pattern you buy will have one there. <G>)

      On the other hand, if someone locates that silk, please share the link.
      I think it's a tough search, thick and with a soft hand. (But, that's
      half the fun, isn't it?)

      -Cat-
    • darth_eagle
      ... princess ... Actually there is...kinda...I think o__O but it s an Out-Of-Print Pattern McCall s M4300 http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4300.htm Anyhow, I
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 30, 2007
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        Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...> wrote:
        > I don't think there are any raglan sleeved princess seam dress in
        > there. (PLEASE, if someone find one, yelp loud.) So, look at
        princess
        > seams with a neckline and sleeves.

        Actually there is...kinda...I think o__O but it's an Out-Of-Print
        Pattern

        McCall's M4300
        http://www.mccallpattern.com/item/M4300.htm


        Anyhow, I am really considering doing this Gown "one of these days"
        so got a little question (Btw, the movie is only release in
        Singapore this Nov 1 tho' there had been Sneak Previews during the
        weekends and I watched it last Fri Night)

        For a start, anyone have any idea whether the Sleeves are Lined or
        Not?

        During my first viewing, I thot it looked like lined using the same
        fabric as the Dress. But some times it just looked like the opening
        of the Sleeves are folded over. o__O

        My plan so far in term of fabrics is to use (Polyester) Silk Satin
        for the Dress and lined it in Pongee. Will have to look for a
        Greyish Silk Satin with maybe a little Bluish Hue to it (somehow I
        love the Blue Hue as seen in certain photos).

        Other than that, I can't really tell where the Sleeves started to
        bell out to the width of the opening. Could it around below the
        Elbow onwards?

        Thanks! ^__^

        Fatimah
      • Sarah
        ... It s really hard to tell. I just got out my Visual Companion, and I can t tell, there aren t really any good shots in it that look inside the sleeve. I can
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 30, 2007
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          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...> wrote:
          > For a start, anyone have any idea whether the Sleeves are Lined or
          > Not?

          It's really hard to tell. I just got out my Visual Companion, and I
          can't tell, there aren't really any good shots in it that look inside
          the sleeve. I can see that, as in the rendering, there is a bit of a
          turned back cuff on the belled end of the sleeve. It's all done so
          smoothly that you can't see any stitching, the way you can see the
          lines of the seams down the front and around the raglan/neckline area.

          > During my first viewing, I thot it looked like lined using the same
          > fabric as the Dress. But some times it just looked like the opening
          > of the Sleeves are folded over. o__O

          yes, there is a kind of folded back cuff. It's still the right side of
          the fabric, so either it's self lined, at least for some of the bell,
          or there's a very deep hem, the sewing for which is concealed behind
          the folded back part.

          > Other than that, I can't really tell where the Sleeves started to
          > bell out to the width of the opening. Could it around below the
          > Elbow onwards?

          It looks like the sleeve fits quite close at the shoulder, well up
          into the armpit, has a little extra fullness at the elbow, and then
          much more at the wrist.
          S
        • darth_eagle
          ... of ... Okay then. -__^ Guess if no new info pop up by the time I get this dress done, will have the sleeves self-lined. Anyway, I m planning to have the
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 1, 2007
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            "Sarah" <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
            > yes, there is a kind of folded back cuff. It's still the right side
            of
            > the fabric, so either it's self lined, at least for some of the bell,
            > or there's a very deep hem, the sewing for which is concealed behind
            > the folded back part.

            Okay then. -__^ Guess if no new info pop up by the time I get this
            dress done, will have the sleeves self-lined. Anyway, I'm planning to
            have the whole dress lined anyway (rest will be with Pongee) as I tend
            to sweat a lot some times (and Satin seems to show it easily @__@ )

            > It looks like the sleeve fits quite close at the shoulder, well up
            > into the armpit, has a little extra fullness at the elbow, and then
            > much more at the wrist.

            Roger on that! -__^

            Anyway, reading Cat's post again about the Princess Seams and Gores in
            the dress, I really saw those gores now. Was wondering why the side
            seams seems to be so front before that. o__O

            Fatimah
          • darth_eagle
            ... a ... medieval ... Just noticed this question when I try to trace the gores on some of the photos of the costume. Are they just located between the
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 8, 2007
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              Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...> wrote:
              > There are long triangle gores inserted at each seam. You don't need
              a
              > pattern for those, just punt, they're easy. (Anyone got a good
              medieval
              > link for skirt gores??? ) They start at low hip:


              Just noticed this question when I try to trace the gores on some of
              the photos of the costume.

              Are they just located between the Princess Seams OR also between the
              Side Seams?

              I thot I spy a Gore on the picture of her lying down:
              http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg

              Thanks! ^__^

              Fatimah
            • Perseus85@aol.com
              http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg If you look at the same picture just noted about the gores, you can see that the lower sleeve as actually a
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 9, 2007
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                http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg

                If you look at the same picture just noted about the gores, you can see that the lower sleeve as actually a separate cuff that's just been folded in half and attached. if that makes sense. Looks to be 3-4 inches wide and that's why you would see the face of the fabric on the inside. Don't know if this has been figured out or not, just know that it had been questioned.






                -----Original Message-----
                From: darth_eagle <darth_eagle@...>
                To: F-Costume@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 12:54 am
                Subject: [F-Costume] Re: Stardust: Yvaine's Stardust gown

























                Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...> wrote:

                > There are long triangle gores inserted at each seam. You don't need

                a

                > pattern for those, just punt, they're easy. (Anyone got a good

                medieval

                > link for skirt gores??? ) They start at low hip:



                Just noticed this question when I try to trace the gores on some of

                the photos of the costume.



                Are they just located between the Princess Seams OR also between the

                Side Seams?



                I thot I spy a Gore on the picture of her lying down:

                http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg



                Thanks! ^__^



                Fatimah





















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                Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


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              • faye
                ... need ... the ... That is a gore alright placed in the princess seam. Hard to tell the shap of the gore, but since it is going into two straight seams the
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 9, 2007
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                  --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@> wrote:
                  > > There are long triangle gores inserted at each seam. You don't
                  need
                  > a
                  > > pattern for those, just punt, they're easy. (Anyone got a good
                  > medieval
                  > > link for skirt gores??? ) They start at low hip:
                  >
                  >
                  > Just noticed this question when I try to trace the gores on some of
                  > the photos of the costume.
                  >
                  > Are they just located between the Princess Seams OR also between
                  the
                  > Side Seams?
                  >
                  > I thot I spy a Gore on the picture of her lying down:
                  > http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg
                  >
                  > Thanks! ^__^
                  >
                  > Fatimah


                  That is a gore alright placed in the princess seam. Hard to tell the
                  shap of the gore, but since it is going into two straight seams the
                  gore could be an isocelies triangle.

                  I do not find them so easy to insert when they are placed in front
                  and back without a CF or CB seam. The Bias makes for beautiful drape
                  and a "swishy" skirt.

                  Even so, one has to be very careful at the very top to get everything
                  lined up just right. I find hand sewing give me much more control.

                  I looked high and low for a good web site to help me when doing gores
                  for the first time and there is some very bad advise out there. I
                  guess I should make up a page on my site, since I had so much trouble.

                  faye
                  www.simbelmyne.us
                  >
                • Cat Devereaux
                  ... and back without a CF or CB seam. Even so, one has to be very careful at the very top to get everything lined up just right. I find hand sewing give me
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 9, 2007
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                    >>I do not find them so easy to insert when they are placed in front
                    and back without a CF or CB seam. Even so, one has to be very careful at
                    the very top to get everything lined up just right. I find hand sewing
                    give me much more control.

                    Those goes are tough to stick in. On the web, you have to be careful, a
                    lot of the gore instructions are for underarm gores... and those go in
                    differently because they're not weight bearing.

                    For the long skirt gores... you have to be very careful from the point
                    of even cutting the gores because the fabric will stretch and wrinkle.
                    Stick in skirt goes from top to bottom, skipping the top 1/2 to1".
                    You're right, that's the part that's best to put in by hand. I don't
                    secure the very top of the gore at all. In the skirts in Eragon those
                    inserted gores actually have a bit of a round top point. That's
                    probably from someone sewing up one and down the other quickly... but
                    that skirt doesn't have the same gravity issue that the Stardust gown does.

                    And as always, your millage may vary, because there are other methods...
                    but it's what works right for your fabric and the positioning.

                    -Cat-
                  • darth_eagle
                    ... the ... Hmmm...but is there also Gores along the Side Seams? I thot it looks like it in that picture too.
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 10, 2007
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                      "faye" <tongarii@...> wrote:
                      > That is a gore alright placed in the princess seam. Hard to tell
                      the
                      > shap of the gore, but since it is going into two straight seams the
                      > gore could be an isocelies triangle.


                      Hmmm...but is there also Gores along the Side Seams? I thot it looks
                      like it in that picture too.

                      http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg

                      Fatimah
                    • Sarah
                      yes, that photo shows a pretty big gore set into the side seam. Because of the way the dress is arranged, it s hard to see if there is also a gore in the
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 10, 2007
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                        yes, that photo shows a pretty big gore set into the side seam.
                        Because of the way the dress is arranged, it's hard to see if there is
                        also a gore in the princess seam.

                        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...> wrote:
                        > Hmmm...but is there also Gores along the Side Seams? I thot it looks
                        > like it in that picture too.
                        >
                        > http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver2.jpg
                        >
                        > Fatimah
                        >
                      • Sarah
                        I must be weird, because I don t have that much trouble with gores... it s always easier to set them into a seam than a slit, but... a little planning is
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 10, 2007
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                          I must be weird, because I don't have that much trouble with gores...
                          it's always easier to set them into a seam than a slit, but... a
                          little planning is helpful of course. With a slinky fabric (like this
                          dress) it's going to be necessary to hang-pin, so the bias edge of the
                          gore gets a chance to relax before it's sewn to the straight, or
                          straighter, edge of the dress piece. If the dress piece is flared too,
                          it also needs to relax.
                          One thing I find helpful in getting the three seams to actually meet
                          at the top of the gore, is to sew the seam above the gore first, to
                          the point where the gore begins, and backstitch. Then sew the gore in
                          so that you can see that backstitched end... and sew towards it...
                          (visualizing as hard as I can) I think that means sewing up from the
                          hem with the gore underneath the dress, so that this second seam meets
                          the first one at the back stitching. Then when you make the third
                          seam, ideally also from the hem up (wider to narrower, remember from
                          home ec class, one of the few things I learned there!), you can see
                          the tip of the second seam.
                          In other words, say you're setting a gore into a right side seam like
                          in the photo, you sew the side seam first, then the back to the gore,
                          then the front to the gore. (taxing my powers of turning things inside
                          out in my head!)
                        • darth_eagle
                          ... Oh! The Princess Seam Gore can be seen here -__^ http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver1.jpg I think it can also be seen here, right beside her Left
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 12, 2007
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                            "Sarah" <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                            > Because of the way the dress is arranged, it's hard to see if there
                            > is also a gore in the princess seam.


                            Oh! The Princess Seam Gore can be seen here -__^
                            http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver1.jpg

                            I think it can also be seen here, right beside her Left Hand.
                            http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver10.jpg


                            Btw, while watching the Movie a 2nd time yesterday (a friend's
                            treat :D ), I notice that there are Shoulder Seams on the Raglan
                            Sleeves, to allow them to sit better on the shoulder.

                            As for that Sleeves Hem, could it be just folded over and maybe tack
                            down near the top? Cause in certain scenes, I thot I spy the lower
                            part "unfolding" giving the Hem a weird look.

                            Fatimah
                          • Sarah
                            ... It sure is! that s a great picture, you can also see how the center front panel is on the bias, while the side fronts are on the straight grain. I do not
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 13, 2007
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                              --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > "Sarah" <sarahstrong13@> wrote:
                              > > Because of the way the dress is arranged, it's hard to see if there
                              > > is also a gore in the princess seam.
                              >
                              >
                              > Oh! The Princess Seam Gore can be seen here -__^
                              > http://www.costumersguide.com/stardust/silver1.jpg

                              It sure is! that's a great picture, you can also see how the center
                              front panel is on the bias, while the side fronts are on the straight
                              grain.
                              I do not know how they keep that sleeve cuff/hem thing up, it stays
                              put and doesn't look stiff, but not a stitch shows on the top layer of
                              fabric, and that silk satin isn't spongy=thick enough to hide a stitch
                              inside the fabric the way wool would be. Some kind of interfacing?
                            • darth_eagle
                              ... Woh! Like that I wonder how much of cloths I should be getting cause it won t be me sewing it (not yet but hopefully after this gown, I can start sewing my
                              Message 14 of 30 , Nov 24, 2007
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                                "Sarah" <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                                > It sure is! that's a great picture, you can also see how the center
                                > front panel is on the bias, while the side fronts are on the straight
                                > grain.

                                Woh! Like that I wonder how much of cloths I should be getting cause
                                it won't be me sewing it (not yet but hopefully after this gown, I can
                                start sewing my own) -__^

                                Well, hope 8m is more than enough for me. -__^

                                Fatimah
                              • Sarah
                                The best way to do a yardage estimate for something like this is really to do the test garment first, using something similar to the fashion fabric but really
                                Message 15 of 30 , Nov 24, 2007
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                                  The best way to do a yardage estimate for something like this is
                                  really to do the test garment first, using something similar to the
                                  fashion fabric but really cheap. Then when you have the pattern
                                  totally worked out, you can lay out the pieces as if you were laying
                                  out on fabric and see how far it goes. The bias pieces really make it
                                  hard to estimate the way you could on an all-straight grain garment.

                                  Tip for cutting something really wiggly like charmeuse (satin probably
                                  has more body, I don't know): first lay down a layer of tissue paper
                                  big enough to support the whole width of your fabric. (I use old
                                  pattern tissue since I happen to have a lot of it and can sacrifice it
                                  for this. You can glue-stick together lots of white giftwrapping
                                  tissue, or at the next dollar pattern sale pick up a couple of really
                                  fat ones, like bridal patterns, and use that.) Pin the fabric to the
                                  tissue to keep the lengthwise and crosswise grains really straight.
                                  Lay the pattern pieces on top of the fabric and pin the bejeezus out
                                  of all three layers, so the fabric is firmly sandwiched between the
                                  tissue papers, when you are cutting. Then leave the fabric so
                                  sandwiched until you are ready to sew with that piece.

                                  --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...> wrote:
                                  > I wonder how much of cloths I should be getting cause
                                  > it won't be me sewing it (not yet but hopefully after this gown, I can
                                  > start sewing my own) -__^
                                  >
                                  > Well, hope 8m is more than enough for me. -__^
                                  >
                                  > Fatimah
                                  >
                                • Erin
                                  Then leave the fabric so ... And if your pattern paper and bottom paper are thin enough, I would actually keep it on while sewing and you can just rip it off
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
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                                    Then leave the fabric so
                                    > sandwiched until you are ready to sew with that piece.

                                    And if your pattern paper and bottom paper are thin enough, I would
                                    actually keep it on while sewing and you can just rip it off later.
                                    Makes it much easier sewing wise.

                                    Earendil
                                  • Sarah
                                    that s a great point, especially if you ve cut single layers and it s stuff that you need to keep in shape (like sleeves and bodices) If it s the long skirt
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Nov 26, 2007
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                                      that's a great point, especially if you've cut single layers and it's
                                      stuff that you need to keep in shape (like sleeves and bodices) If
                                      it's the long skirt pieces with the bias edges you might need to
                                      hang-pin them if its something slithery like charmeuse.

                                      --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "Erin" <Eponine_80@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Then leave the fabric so
                                      > > sandwiched until you are ready to sew with that piece.
                                      >
                                      > And if your pattern paper and bottom paper are thin enough, I would
                                      > actually keep it on while sewing and you can just rip it off later.
                                      > Makes it much easier sewing wise.
                                      >
                                      > Earendil
                                      >
                                    • lemony68
                                      Hi Everyone! This is my first post so bear with me! On http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--Dress.htm they are actually selling
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 22, 2007
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                                        Hi Everyone! This is my first post so bear with me!
                                        On
                                        http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--Dress.htm
                                        they are actually selling the dress! I'd buy it if I had the money!
                                        There's some really nice close ups' of the gown! Hope this helps! I
                                        may add them to the gallery!
                                        Love
                                        Anna
                                        xx
                                      • Cat Devereaux
                                        ...
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 22, 2007
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                                          >>
                                          <http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--Dress.htm
                                          <http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--Dress.htm>>

                                          Wow!!!!!! There's the seams everyone - wide center panels, slightly
                                          weird sleeves. YEA!

                                          Thanks for posting the link.

                                          -Cat-
                                        • darth_eagle
                                          Heehee.....now I am counting my blessings for not getting my dress done yet. -__^ These photos really show more things about the dress and a possible hint to
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 30, 2007
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                                            Heehee.....now I am counting my blessings for not getting my dress
                                            done yet. -__^

                                            These photos really show more things about the dress and a possible
                                            hint to how the Sleeves Cuff was done.

                                            *Gone off to print out the new photos on Photo Quality Papers* -__^

                                            Fatimah


                                            Cat Devereaux <CatDevereaux@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >>
                                            > <http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--
                                            Dress.htm
                                            > <http://www.propstore.com/product-Yvaine-The-Star-s--Claire-Danes--
                                            Dress.htm>>
                                            >
                                            > Wow!!!!!! There's the seams everyone - wide center panels, slightly
                                            > weird sleeves. YEA!
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for posting the link.
                                            >
                                            > -Cat-
                                          • Cat Devereaux
                                            ... done yet. -__^ These photos really show more things about the dress and a possible hint to how the Sleeves Cuff was done. It s just what ya needed for
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 30, 2007
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                                              >>Heehee.....now I am counting my blessings for not getting my dress
                                              done yet. -__^ These photos really show more things about the dress
                                              and a possible
                                              hint to how the Sleeves Cuff was done.

                                              It's just what ya needed for the pattern! The DVD is out, but I don't
                                              have my copy yet.... but I'm not sure what else you'd need beyond what
                                              we can see here. It's great in it's simplicity.

                                              -Cat-
                                            • Sarah
                                              it looks to me like the cuff is a sort of wide (bias?) band extending the sleeve and clean finishing it. in this group of pictures it hangs down, while in the
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Dec 30, 2007
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                                                it looks to me like the cuff is a sort of wide (bias?) band extending
                                                the sleeve and clean finishing it. in this group of pictures it hangs
                                                down, while in the film it was folded back on itself, hiding the seam.

                                                --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, "darth_eagle" <darth_eagle@...> wrote:
                                                > These photos really show more things about the dress and a possible
                                                > hint to how the Sleeves Cuff was done.
                                              • darth_eagle
                                                ... Hmmmmm...so in order to create it, one have to do a very wide Bias Tape like piece, and sew it to the cuff of the sleeves like how we do with Bias Tape,
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jan 1, 2008
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                                                  "Sarah" <sarahstrong13@...> wrote:
                                                  > it looks to me like the cuff is a sort of wide (bias?) band extending
                                                  > the sleeve and clean finishing it. in this group of pictures it hangs
                                                  > down, while in the film it was folded back on itself, hiding the seam.

                                                  Hmmmmm...so in order to create it, one have to do a very wide Bias Tape
                                                  like piece, and sew it to the cuff of the sleeves like how we do with
                                                  Bias Tape, except not binding the "raw edges" completely like how we
                                                  usually do with Bias Tape?

                                                  Fatimah
                                                • Cat Devereaux
                                                  ... like piece, and sew it to the cuff of the sleeves like how we do with Bias Tape, except not binding the raw edges completely like how we usually do with
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jan 1, 2008
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                                                    >>Hmmmmm...so in order to create it, one have to do a very wide Bias Tape
                                                    like piece, and sew it to the cuff of the sleeves like how we do with
                                                    Bias Tape, except not binding the "raw edges" completely like how we
                                                    usually do with Bias Tape?

                                                    Well, the only reason to have a raw seam showing is for short cuts.
                                                    You can still give it the same treatment, but instead, turn that last
                                                    edge under, use those little between needles for fine stiches and
                                                    stitch-in-a-ditch to finish with no seams. You're not making 12
                                                    copies of the same dress to handle shooting and stunts nor going to
                                                    treat it that rough.

                                                    -Cat-
                                                  • bleupirate@aol.com
                                                    Hi all! I m new here. :) Glad to see the discussion about Stardust. I ve been trying to find some good picture of the coat Tristan wears after he leaves the
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Jan 1, 2008
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                                                      Hi all! I'm new here. :) Glad to see the discussion about Stardust. I've
                                                      been trying to find some good picture of the coat Tristan wears after he leaves
                                                      the pirate ship...the white one with the brown collar. I've only been able
                                                      to find one. Any suggestion? :)



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                                                    • Sarah
                                                      We ve all admired this! :) Look back in the messages, it won t be that far. I know folks found pix and had pattern ideas. welcome! S ... I ve ... after he
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Jan 1, 2008
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                                                        We've all admired this! :) Look back in the messages, it won't be that
                                                        far. I know folks found pix and had pattern ideas.
                                                        welcome!
                                                        S

                                                        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, bleupirate@... wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Hi all! I'm new here. :) Glad to see the discussion about Stardust.
                                                        I've
                                                        > been trying to find some good picture of the coat Tristan wears
                                                        after he leaves
                                                        > the pirate ship...the white one with the brown collar. I've only
                                                        been able
                                                        > to find one. Any suggestion? :)
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
                                                        > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
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