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Oddball question on high-standing collar supports

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  • Angharad ver' Reynulf
    One of my household friends fell in love with two costumes currently on display or in progress at my house this month and so I am now making 6 matching outfits
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
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      One of my household friends fell in love with two costumes
      currently on display or in progress at my house this month and so I am now making 6 matching outfits inspired by them for a drag queen show. One was my Julian May Tanu costume (easy-peasy,
      even if he chose sequined fabric that stretches) but the other is a
      high stand up collar (think Ming the Merciless, Magenta or Riff from
      RHPS or in a couple of the Big Three Halloween costume patterns).
      My personal stand up collar is just fine, being made out of silk and brocade,
      even beaded, the pellon and boning is enough to make it stand up just
      fine. Theirs are heavier (quilted silver lame, eventually to be
      beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can
      dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand up consistently, even with the extra boning I
      added.

      I've slipstitched a casing with 1/4" dowelling from the points of the front collar (past
      the waist) up to the outer edge even with the ears, and that is
      working to where they can still dance and move, but not feel
      uncomfortable, but the dowels break easily. Any other suggestions?

      A supportasse like Margo's Elizabethan patterns doesn't seem to be
      a good idea with the range of motion and quick-change need this is
      demanding (they will have 2 1/2 minutes to change, but one of them
      drops the collar and robe on-stage to begin the next number-revealing
      the costume underneath, and looks a LOT like Kevin Roche).

      Thank you for your time,

      Jonnalyhn Wolfcat
      who is glad that they like it so much, even if I'M going
      nuts....three of them have already asked for me to consider other
      outfits for them from Victorian inspired to pure confections of
      fantasy or to be models in my next Masquerade entry.



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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    • Sarah
      ... Would a regular steel or spring bone work in the dowel casing? Or something like a dowel, only springy, so it doesn t break? What about plastic canvas,
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
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        --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
        <dragonwolfcat@...> wrote:
        >
        > One of my household friends fell in love with two costumes...
        > [snip] but the other is a high stand up collar...

        Would a regular steel or spring bone work in the dowel casing? Or
        something like a dowel, only springy, so it doesn't break?
        What about plastic canvas, although the time to use it is earlier in
        construction when you are layering up to quilt...
        Without a picture it's hard to know if I'm imagining anything like
        what you are describing... Is the problem partly in the join between
        the collar and the body of the costume, so that needs more structure,
        not just the collar itself?
        Sounds like a wild time!
        S
      • von_drago
        Not sure if this would be the entire answer but it might help; Irish Dancers use a product called Flexi-Firm in their skirts & capes to keep them rigid &
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
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          Not sure if this would be the entire answer but it might help;

          Irish Dancers use a product called Flexi-Firm in their skirts & capes
          to keep them rigid & standing out.
          It resembles 1/8"thick felt. It is flexible & can be sewn through but
          is very "firm" & will stand up very well. It will not be immobile &
          is easy to sew through (if not to manipulate through the machine in
          large pieces - like the Irish Dance skirt).

          Not all suppliers will have it either but it might be worth checking
          into.

          Von Drago

          --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com, Angharad ver' Reynulf
          <dragonwolfcat@...> wrote:
          >
          > One of my household friends fell in love with two costumes
          > currently on display or in progress at my house this month and so I
          am now making 6 matching outfits inspired by them for a drag queen
          show. One was my Julian May Tanu costume (easy-peasy,
          > even if he chose sequined fabric that stretches) but the other is a
          > high stand up collar (think Ming the Merciless, Magenta or Riff from
          > RHPS or in a couple of the Big Three Halloween costume patterns).
          > My personal stand up collar is just fine, being made out of silk
          and brocade,
          > even beaded, the pellon and boning is enough to make it stand up
          just
          > fine. Theirs are heavier (quilted silver lame, eventually to be
          > beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can
          > dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand up
          consistently, even with the extra boning I
          > added.
          >
          > I've slipstitched a casing with 1/4" dowelling from the points of
          the front collar (past
          > the waist) up to the outer edge even with the ears, and that is
          > working to where they can still dance and move, but not feel
          > uncomfortable, but the dowels break easily. Any other suggestions?
          >
          > A supportasse like Margo's Elizabethan patterns doesn't seem to be
          > a good idea with the range of motion and quick-change need this is
          > demanding (they will have 2 1/2 minutes to change, but one of them
          > drops the collar and robe on-stage to begin the next number-
          revealing
          > the costume underneath, and looks a LOT like Kevin Roche).
          >
          > Thank you for your time,
          >
          > Jonnalyhn Wolfcat
          > who is glad that they like it so much, even if I'M going
          > nuts....three of them have already asked for me to consider other
          > outfits for them from Victorian inspired to pure confections of
          > fantasy or to be models in my next Masquerade entry.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          ______________
          > The fish are biting.
          > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
          > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
          >
        • Pierre & Sandy Pettinger
          Fiberglas or graphite kite spars. Won t break, as light as wood, and somewhat flexible while providing rigidity. Most come in 4 lengths.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 1, 2007
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            Fiberglas or graphite kite spars. Won't break, as light as wood, and
            somewhat flexible while providing rigidity. Most come in 4' lengths.

            <http://www.kitebuilder.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/33?osCsid=86cff2e0b06c33a1c412aba9953c0c0d>
            or <http://www.tiny.cc/qzPxG>http://www.tiny.cc/qzPxG

            http://www.intothewind.com/shop/Repair_and_Kitemaking

            At 02:43 PM 2/1/2007, you wrote:
            >the other is a
            >high stand up collar (think Ming the Merciless, Magenta or Riff from
            >RHPS or in a couple of the Big Three Halloween costume patterns).
            >Theirs are heavier (quilted silver lame, eventually to be
            >beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can
            >dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand up
            >consistently, even with the extra boning I added.
            >
            >I've slipstitched a casing with 1/4" dowelling from the points of
            >the front collar (past
            >the waist) up to the outer edge even with the ears, and that is
            >working to where they can still dance and move, but not feel
            >uncomfortable, but the dowels break easily. Any other suggestions?
            >
            >Jonnalyhn Wolfcat

            "Those Who Fail To Learn History
            Are Doomed to Repeat It;
            Those Who Fail To Learn History Correctly --
            Why They Are Simply Doomed.

            Achemdro'hm
            "The Illusion of Historical Fact"
            -- C.Y. 4971

            Andromeda
          • Jeanine Swick
            That sounds like the TimTex that is sold for hat brims and the sculpted fabric bowls. I ve used it in a bodice for someone who couldn t wear stiff stays and
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 2, 2007
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              That sounds like the TimTex that is sold for hat brims and the sculpted
              fabric bowls. I've used it in a bodice for someone who couldn't wear
              stiff stays and still wanted some body in it. You can get it from
              Newark Dressmaker Supply, item #NF25 & NF25Y, < www.newarkdress.com > .
              They are a division of Home-Sew Inc., < www.homesew.com >. I've dealt
              with them for over 30 years and have never had a problem with either of
              them.

              Jeanine
              ^..^
              >J<

              von_drago wrote:
              >
              > Not sure if this would be the entire answer but it might help;
              >
              > Irish Dancers use a product called Flexi-Firm in their skirts & capes
              > to keep them rigid & standing out.
              > It resembles 1/8"thick felt. It is flexible & can be sewn through but
              > is very "firm" & will stand up very well. It will not be immobile &
              > is easy to sew through (if not to manipulate through the machine in
              > large pieces - like the Irish Dance skirt).
              >
              > Not all suppliers will have it either but it might be worth checking
              > into.
              >
              > Von Drago
              >
              > --- In F-Costume@yahoogroups.com <mailto:F-Costume%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > Angharad ver' Reynulf
              > <dragonwolfcat@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > One of my household friends fell in love with two costumes
              > > currently on display or in progress at my house this month and so I
              > am now making 6 matching outfits inspired by them for a drag queen
              > show. One was my Julian May Tanu costume (easy-peasy,
              > > even if he chose sequined fabric that stretches) but the other is a
              > > high stand up collar (think Ming the Merciless, Magenta or Riff from
              > > RHPS or in a couple of the Big Three Halloween costume patterns).
              > > My personal stand up collar is just fine, being made out of silk
              > and brocade,
              > > even beaded, the pellon and boning is enough to make it stand up
              > just
              > > fine. Theirs are heavier (quilted silver lame, eventually to be
              > > beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can
              > > dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand up
              > consistently, even with the extra boning I
              > > added.
              > >
              > > I've slipstitched a casing with 1/4" dowelling from the points of
              > the front collar (past
              > > the waist) up to the outer edge even with the ears, and that is
              > > working to where they can still dance and move, but not feel
              > > uncomfortable, but the dowels break easily. Any other suggestions?
              > >
              > > A supportasse like Margo's Elizabethan patterns doesn't seem to be
              > > a good idea with the range of motion and quick-change need this is
              > > demanding (they will have 2 1/2 minutes to change, but one of them
              > > drops the collar and robe on-stage to begin the next number-
              > revealing
              > > the costume underneath, and looks a LOT like Kevin Roche).
              > >
              > > Thank you for your time,
              > >
              > > Jonnalyhn Wolfcat
              > > who is glad that they like it so much, even if I'M going
              > > nuts....three of them have already asked for me to consider other
              > > outfits for them from Victorian inspired to pure confections of
              > > fantasy or to be models in my next Masquerade entry.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > __________________________________________________________
              > ______________
              > > The fish are biting.
              > > Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
              > > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php
              > <http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php>
              > >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Angharad ver' Reynulf
              The plastic canvas I tried also sagged, since this is coming up to a point 15 high from the nape of the neck and about 8 to each side of the face, even with
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 2, 2007
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                The plastic canvas I tried also sagged, since this is coming up to a point 15" high from the nape of the neck and about 8" to each side of the face, even with the boning I had rayed out from the front of the shoulders all around the back.

                I've uploaded a file temporarily of my rough sketch of the outfit-showing the way it looks from the front and back as the collar isn't attached to the robe at all.

                Having a piece of boning stopping around the bust line to try and stabilize it from their up the front of the shoulder caused it to try and do a bullet effect, ruining the smooth line of the front, hence the thought that going from the point up on either side of the snap tape to the outer edge near the ear level would work.

                But that is approximately 25 to 28 inches on most of the collars and almost 30 on the primary one!

                Wolfcat



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              • Brian Jeffrey
                Not to be self serving here, but you might want to check out the product known as FOSSHAPE available from Dazian Fabrics www.dazian.com Before it becomes heat
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 3, 2007
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                  Not to be self serving here, but you might want to check out the product known as FOSSHAPE available from Dazian Fabrics www.dazian.com
                  Before it becomes heat activated (utilize costume steamer, steam iron etc.) it resembles a white felt. But with heat and pressure, you can stiffen to your hearts content. Layer it up to make thicker etc. Disney them parks use it for many of there costumes. Sew before heating if required and even dyes well. Light weight, beathable and has numerous uses. I would be glad to send sample swatches/more info to anyone who wants to experiment with it....just need your mailing address.
                  The Thermoman of Dazian
                  Brian Jeffrey
                  b.jeffrey@...


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Cat Devereaux
                  ... silver lame, eventually to be beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 3, 2007
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                    >> but the other is a high stand up collar .... Theirs are heavier (quilted
                    silver lame, eventually to be
                    beaded/sparkled) and they are much more active, including a can-can
                    dance, which is causing them to flop about and not stand up consistently,
                    even with the extra boning I
                    added.

                    Hard shaping like fosshape or the wonderflex may be the way to go them. The
                    only other thing I can think of is to run heavy wire on the edges. You'd
                    need to make a shoulder piece and then wire a second from the collar down
                    the front.... and join where the two wires lay side by side so the shoulder
                    piece stabilizes the collar. (IE, think of hat edge wiring on steroids.)
                    You can get thick gage wire at hardware stores and shape it by bending it
                    around an object that has about the same curve. It will add weight to the
                    costumes, but when other methods fail, then you start playing with the
                    understructure. It only has to look like it's standing up magic... not
                    actually be that way.

                    -Cat-
                  • Angharad ver' Reynulf
                    My thanks to all of you who gave me some information on other possibilities for these collars. Not only do I get to play with the original six, I now get to
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 15, 2007
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                      My thanks to all of you who gave me some information on other possibilities for these collars. Not only do I get to play with the original six, I now get to play with making some in gold, with lots of points like the cover of Anne McCaffrey's Coelura (the inspiration for mine actually), so I will definitely be utilizing the knowledge.


                      Jonnalyhn/Angharat/Wolfcat



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