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RE: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

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  • Jez Uden
    hi John are you comparing dyslexic native speakers with foreign language learners?? If so this would be immediately problematic as native speakers already
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      hi John

      are you comparing dyslexic 'native speakers' with foreign language learners?? If so this would be immediately problematic as native speakers already have a vast mental lexicon. 

      For foreign language learners, reading non-graded materials are unlikely to result in comprehensible input. In other words, unless they are highly advanced learners the vocabulary load is likely to be far too high for the input to be comprehensible thus denying them the opportunity to develop reading fluency. Beginning and intermediate students need graded readers exactly for these reasons. As for graded readers being harmful...there are literally hundreds and hundreds of research papers showing the benefits of extensive reading using graded materials. In fact there is no research that shows that using non-graded materials leads to any improvement over a graded reading scheme. 

      Jez


      To: extensivereading@yahoogroups.com
      From: bellpawt@...
      Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:14:06 +0000
      Subject: RE: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

       

      Hi Guys

      "A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression' This quote was made at a dyslexia conference in New York a few years ago and it means for automatic processing and comprehension one must have control of the language.  

      That means that fluency should be the top of the bill when it comes to choosing books to learn from.  Graded readers .are graded readers and there use implies a top down learning approach wher other people ho know best write the best English reading books and the learner tries to get all that material in his head..

      Hard work, heart braking and harmful.Why not choose  material  that's authentic rather than looking for  books which without vernacular or collocations etc.  Rather than using books to extend one self it is better to read at a level below on level of automatic control.One can read for  enjoyment and will develop far quicker as a result.


      "We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language".
      It means that its better to read at a level of fluent and automatic control. This will affect thought and memory much more deeply and permanently It is a "bottom up" apparoach  
      And listening is the key !

      Cheers,
      John 


      CC: bellpawt@...
      To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
      From: waring_robert@...
      Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:56:10 +0900
      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

       
      Hello all,

      I'm also unclear about the following claims. John would you take the time to help disambiguate them for us?

      A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression


      We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language

      Rob


      On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Lemmer Richard wrote:

      John,

      Afraid I too am missing your point. Where and when did anyone suggest that we acquire language one discrete word at a time. The only mention I saw about "words" was in reference to headwords and the number of words in a reader. Both of these are valid factors to consider when purchasing books. They provide information on the suitability of the book for the reader and on the volume of reading being done.

      Richard

      On 1/31/12 1:48 PM, john callahan wrote:
       

       A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression Language is a living thing. Books can bring it alive. We don't learn language a word at a time. Well never become fluent that way. We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language.  cheers, John 


      To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
      From: glenahill@...
      Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:04:18 +0900
      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

       
      John,
      What exactly are you referring to? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Your post was a little too short.
      Glenski


      On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:11 AM, john callahan <bellpawt@...> wrote:
       

      Hi guys,    It is ridiculous to focus in on word content in the provision of library resourcing for a lot of reasons ...

                            Come on ...use your brains...
                                           John 


      CC: ngathanh174@...; ngunhisonghien@...
      To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
      From: waring_robert@...
      Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:19:35 +0900

      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

      Hi,

      It's definitely there under Cengage Footprint.  All cengage Readers are including Foundations and PageTurners (well the one that we've printed…)

      <Mail Attachment.png>



      Rob


      On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Frank Christensen wrote:

       
      Hi Glen and All,

      We also do not buy new graded readers if they are not in Moodle reader. Why is Rob's Footprints series not in Moodle reader? We presently use only Oxford, Penguin and Macmillan .All superb, but Footprints would be a welcome addition. All opinions are welcome. Rob? Happy New Year!

      Cheers,

      Frank

      --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

      From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information
      To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 8:10 PM

       
      Personally, when I look for graded readers now, I'm afraid the first thing I consider is whether they have a MoodleReader quiz. My students are so apathetic that they need the carrot/stick of a quiz before they will ever pick up a book, and I refuse to have book reports nowadays. Courses with 120-160 students prohibit that.

      Next, I look for the genre and (native speaker?) age level that the book was designed for, and if it's designed for native speakers or not. Also, if the book is already in my collection (publishers often have the same titles) or if it's a stale-sounding title (sorry, Shakespeareans!).

      Next, I look for the publisher's assigned reading level, no. of headwords, and then total word count.

      Finally, if the book also has an accompanying audio CD or downloadable audio file, that would be great (although I'm not at the stage yet where my students take advantage of any listening options).

      Glenski






    • Rob Waring
      Hi There s also quite a bit of research that shows that the text in graded readers mirrors that of native texts very well in terms of construction, collocation
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi

        There's also quite a bit of research that shows that the text in graded readers mirrors that of native texts very well in terms of construction, collocation and idiomaticity. It's just that they use fewer words at some levels.

        I could (just) understand some of John's comments if he was referring to first language reading, but this group discusses ER in foreign langauges.

        Rob
        On Feb 1, 2012, at 5:39 PM, Jez Uden wrote:

         

        hi John

        are you comparing dyslexic 'native speakers' with foreign language learners?? If so this would be immediately problematic as native speakers already have a vast mental lexicon. 

        For foreign language learners, reading non-graded materials are unlikely to result in comprehensible input. In other words, unless they are highly advanced learners the vocabulary load is likely to be far too high for the input to be comprehensible thus denying them the opportunity to develop reading fluency. Beginning and intermediate students need graded readers exactly for these reasons. As for graded readers being harmful...there are literally hundreds and hundreds of research papers showing the benefits of extensive reading using graded materials. In fact there is no research that shows that using non-graded materials leads to any improvement over a graded reading scheme. 

        Jez


        To: extensivereading@yahoogroups.com
        From: bellpawt@...
        Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:14:06 +0000
        Subject: RE: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

         

        Hi Guys

        "A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression' This quote was made at a dyslexia conference in New York a few years ago and it means for automatic processing and comprehension one must have control of the language.  

        That means that fluency should be the top of the bill when it comes to choosing books to learn from.  Graded readers .are graded readers and there use implies a top down learning approach wher other people ho know best write the best English reading books and the learner tries to get all that material in his head..

        Hard work, heart braking and harmful.Why not choose  material  that's authentic rather than looking for  books which without vernacular or collocations etc.  Rather than using books to extend one self it is better to read at a level below on level of automatic control.One can read for  enjoyment and will develop far quicker as a result.


        "We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language".
        It means that its better to read at a level of fluent and automatic control. This will affect thought and memory much more deeply and permanently It is a "bottom up" apparoach  
        And listening is the key !

        Cheers,
        John 


        CC: bellpawt@...
        To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
        From: waring_robert@...
        Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:56:10 +0900
        Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

         
        Hello all,

        I'm also unclear about the following claims. John would you take the time to help disambiguate them for us?

        A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression


        We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language

        Rob


        On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Lemmer Richard wrote:

        John,

        Afraid I too am missing your point. Where and when did anyone suggest that we acquire language one discrete word at a time. The only mention I saw about "words" was in reference to headwords and the number of words in a reader. Both of these are valid factors to consider when purchasing books. They provide information on the suitability of the book for the reader and on the volume of reading being done.

        Richard

        On 1/31/12 1:48 PM, john callahan wrote:
         

         A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression Language is a living thing. Books can bring it alive. We don't learn language a word at a time. Well never become fluent that way. We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language.  cheers, John 


        To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
        From: glenahill@...
        Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:04:18 +0900
        Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

         
        John,
        What exactly are you referring to? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Your post was a little too short.
        Glenski


        On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:11 AM, john callahan <bellpawt@...> wrote:
         

        Hi guys,    It is ridiculous to focus in on word content in the provision of library resourcing for a lot of reasons ...

                              Come on ...use your brains...
                                             John 


        CC: ngathanh174@...; ngunhisonghien@...
        To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
        From: waring_robert@...
        Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:19:35 +0900

        Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

        Hi,

        It's definitely there under Cengage Footprint.  All cengage Readers are including Foundations and PageTurners (well the one that we've printed…)

        <Mail Attachment.png>



        Rob


        On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Frank Christensen wrote:

         
        Hi Glen and All,

        We also do not buy new graded readers if they are not in Moodle reader. Why is Rob's Footprints series not in Moodle reader? We presently use only Oxford, Penguin and Macmillan .All superb, but Footprints would be a welcome addition. All opinions are welcome. Rob? Happy New Year!

        Cheers,

        Frank

        --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

        From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
        Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information
        To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 8:10 PM

         
        Personally, when I look for graded readers now, I'm afraid the first thing I consider is whether they have a MoodleReader quiz. My students are so apathetic that they need the carrot/stick of a quiz before they will ever pick up a book, and I refuse to have book reports nowadays. Courses with 120-160 students prohibit that.

        Next, I look for the genre and (native speaker?) age level that the book was designed for, and if it's designed for native speakers or not. Also, if the book is already in my collection (publishers often have the same titles) or if it's a stale-sounding title (sorry, Shakespeareans!).

        Next, I look for the publisher's assigned reading level, no. of headwords, and then total word count.

        Finally, if the book also has an accompanying audio CD or downloadable audio file, that would be great (although I'm not at the stage yet where my students take advantage of any listening options).

        Glenski








      • john callahan
        E.R in Foreign languages It doesnt matter what language you are reading the principal is still the same-the learner has to know the structures and content well
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          E.R in Foreign languages It doesnt matter what language you are reading the principal is still the same-the learner has to know the structures and content well enough to be able  anticipate what is coming ...in order to maintain executive control and successful metacognition 


          To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
          From: waring_robert@...
          Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:27:57 +0900
          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

           
          Hi

          There's also quite a bit of research that shows that the text in graded readers mirrors that of native texts very well in terms of construction, collocation and idiomaticity. It's just that they use fewer words at some levels.

          I could (just) understand some of John's comments if he was referring to first language reading, but this group discusses ER in foreign langauges.

          Rob
          On Feb 1, 2012, at 5:39 PM, Jez Uden wrote:

           

          hi John

          are you comparing dyslexic 'native speakers' with foreign language learners?? If so this would be immediately problematic as native speakers already have a vast mental lexicon. 

          For foreign language learners, reading non-graded materials are unlikely to result in comprehensible input. In other words, unless they are highly advanced learners the vocabulary load is likely to be far too high for the input to be comprehensible thus denying them the opportunity to develop reading fluency. Beginning and intermediate students need graded readers exactly for these reasons. As for graded readers being harmful...there are literally hundreds and hundreds of research papers showing the benefits of extensive reading using graded materials. In fact there is no research that shows that using non-graded materials leads to any improvement over a graded reading scheme. 

          Jez


          To: extensivereading@yahoogroups.com
          From: bellpawt@...
          Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:14:06 +0000
          Subject: RE: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

           

          Hi Guys

          "A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression' This quote was made at a dyslexia conference in New York a few years ago and it means for automatic processing and comprehension one must have control of the language.  

          That means that fluency should be the top of the bill when it comes to choosing books to learn from.  Graded readers .are graded readers and there use implies a top down learning approach wher other people ho know best write the best English reading books and the learner tries to get all that material in his head..

          Hard work, heart braking and harmful.Why not choose  material  that's authentic rather than looking for  books which without vernacular or collocations etc.  Rather than using books to extend one self it is better to read at a level below on level of automatic control.One can read for  enjoyment and will develop far quicker as a result.


          "We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language".
          It means that its better to read at a level of fluent and automatic control. This will affect thought and memory much more deeply and permanently It is a "bottom up" apparoach  
          And listening is the key !

          Cheers,
          John 


          CC: bellpawt@...
          To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
          From: waring_robert@...
          Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:56:10 +0900
          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

           
          Hello all,

          I'm also unclear about the following claims. John would you take the time to help disambiguate them for us?

          A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression


          We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language

          Rob


          On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Lemmer Richard wrote:

          John,

          Afraid I too am missing your point. Where and when did anyone suggest that we acquire language one discrete word at a time. The only mention I saw about "words" was in reference to headwords and the number of words in a reader. Both of these are valid factors to consider when purchasing books. They provide information on the suitability of the book for the reader and on the volume of reading being done.

          Richard

          On 1/31/12 1:48 PM, john callahan wrote:
           

           A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression Language is a living thing. Books can bring it alive. We don't learn language a word at a time. Well never become fluent that way. We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language.  cheers, John 


          To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
          From: glenahill@...
          Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:04:18 +0900
          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

           
          John,
          What exactly are you referring to? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Your post was a little too short.
          Glenski


          On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:11 AM, john callahan <bellpawt@...> wrote:
           

          Hi guys,    It is ridiculous to focus in on word content in the provision of library resourcing for a lot of reasons ...

                                Come on ...use your brains...
                                               John 


          CC: ngathanh174@...; ngunhisonghien@...
          To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
          From: waring_robert@...
          Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:19:35 +0900

          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

          Hi,

          It's definitely there under Cengage Footprint.  All cengage Readers are including Foundations and PageTurners (well the one that we've printed…)

          <Mail Attachment.png>



          Rob


          On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Frank Christensen wrote:

           
          Hi Glen and All,

          We also do not buy new graded readers if they are not in Moodle reader. Why is Rob's Footprints series not in Moodle reader? We presently use only Oxford, Penguin and Macmillan .All superb, but Footprints would be a welcome addition. All opinions are welcome. Rob? Happy New Year!

          Cheers,

          Frank

          --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

          From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information
          To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 8:10 PM

           
          Personally, when I look for graded readers now, I'm afraid the first thing I consider is whether they have a MoodleReader quiz. My students are so apathetic that they need the carrot/stick of a quiz before they will ever pick up a book, and I refuse to have book reports nowadays. Courses with 120-160 students prohibit that.

          Next, I look for the genre and (native speaker?) age level that the book was designed for, and if it's designed for native speakers or not. Also, if the book is already in my collection (publishers often have the same titles) or if it's a stale-sounding title (sorry, Shakespeareans!).

          Next, I look for the publisher's assigned reading level, no. of headwords, and then total word count.

          Finally, if the book also has an accompanying audio CD or downloadable audio file, that would be great (although I'm not at the stage yet where my students take advantage of any listening options).

          Glenski









        • Rob Waring
          John, So how do you propose teaching beginner readers to read if they use authentic (I m assuming you mean native) texts which will be full of words,
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            John,

            So how do you propose teaching beginner readers to read if they use 'authentic' (I'm assuming you mean native) texts which will be full of words, collocations, expressions they do not know?  How can they develop fluency if they hit 'speed reading bumps' every line of a page? Wouldn't that be heartbreaking and harmful? 

            I wonder if maybe the end goal (reading native texts) is being confused with the means to get there (stepped, scaffolded learning). Imagine someone trying to teach you to drive in a Formula One car, or teaching you to play the piano with Rachmaninov's 3rd, learn to play tennis by playing against Rafael Nadal?  Would you teach children to read by giving them Tolstoy? Or would you start them with easier materials that are at or about their comprehension level with picture support - i.e. at an instructional level?

            Rob

            On Feb 1, 2012, at 6:56 PM, john callahan wrote:

             

            E.R in Foreign languages It doesnt matter what language you are reading the principal is still the same-the learner has to know the structures and content well enough to be able  anticipate what is coming ...in order to maintain executive control and successful metacognition 


            To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
            From: waring_robert@...
            Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:27:57 +0900
            Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

             
            Hi

            There's also quite a bit of research that shows that the text in graded readers mirrors that of native texts very well in terms of construction, collocation and idiomaticity. It's just that they use fewer words at some levels.

            I could (just) understand some of John's comments if he was referring to first language reading, but this group discusses ER in foreign langauges.

            Rob
            On Feb 1, 2012, at 5:39 PM, Jez Uden wrote:

             

            hi John

            are you comparing dyslexic 'native speakers' with foreign language learners?? If so this would be immediately problematic as native speakers already have a vast mental lexicon. 

            For foreign language learners, reading non-graded materials are unlikely to result in comprehensible input. In other words, unless they are highly advanced learners the vocabulary load is likely to be far too high for the input to be comprehensible thus denying them the opportunity to develop reading fluency. Beginning and intermediate students need graded readers exactly for these reasons. As for graded readers being harmful...there are literally hundreds and hundreds of research papers showing the benefits of extensive reading using graded materials. In fact there is no research that shows that using non-graded materials leads to any improvement over a graded reading scheme. 

            Jez


            To: extensivereading@yahoogroups.com
            From: bellpawt@...
            Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 02:14:06 +0000
            Subject: RE: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

             

            Hi Guys

            "A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression' This quote was made at a dyslexia conference in New York a few years ago and it means for automatic processing and comprehension one must have control of the language.  

            That means that fluency should be the top of the bill when it comes to choosing books to learn from.  Graded readers .are graded readers and there use implies a top down learning approach wher other people ho know best write the best English reading books and the learner tries to get all that material in his head..

            Hard work, heart braking and harmful.Why not choose  material  that's authentic rather than looking for  books which without vernacular or collocations etc.  Rather than using books to extend one self it is better to read at a level below on level of automatic control.One can read for  enjoyment and will develop far quicker as a result.


            "We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language".
            It means that its better to read at a level of fluent and automatic control. This will affect thought and memory much more deeply and permanently It is a "bottom up" apparoach  
            And listening is the key !

            Cheers,
            John 


            CC: bellpawt@...
            To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
            From: waring_robert@...
            Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 14:56:10 +0900
            Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

             
            Hello all,

            I'm also unclear about the following claims. John would you take the time to help disambiguate them for us?

            A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression


            We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language

            Rob


            On Jan 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Lemmer Richard wrote:

            John,

            Afraid I too am missing your point. Where and when did anyone suggest that we acquire language one discrete word at a time. The only mention I saw about "words" was in reference to headwords and the number of words in a reader. Both of these are valid factors to consider when purchasing books. They provide information on the suitability of the book for the reader and on the volume of reading being done.

            Richard

            On 1/31/12 1:48 PM, john callahan wrote:
             

             A person can not read with understanding any better than they can speak with expression Language is a living thing. Books can bring it alive. We don't learn language a word at a time. Well never become fluent that way. We learn in suprasegmentals and familiarity with prosody of those suprasegmentals is the vehicle which develops the learners working memory and executive control of the language.  cheers, John 


            To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
            From: glenahill@...
            Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:04:18 +0900
            Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

             
            John,
            What exactly are you referring to? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Your post was a little too short.
            Glenski


            On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:11 AM, john callahan <bellpawt@...> wrote:
             

            Hi guys,    It is ridiculous to focus in on word content in the provision of library resourcing for a lot of reasons ...

                                  Come on ...use your brains...
                                                 John 


            CC: ngathanh174@...; ngunhisonghien@...
            To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
            From: waring_robert@...
            Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:19:35 +0900

            Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information

            Hi,

            It's definitely there under Cengage Footprint.  All cengage Readers are including Foundations and PageTurners (well the one that we've printed…)

            <Mail Attachment.png>



            Rob


            On Jan 29, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Frank Christensen wrote:

             
            Hi Glen and All,

            We also do not buy new graded readers if they are not in Moodle reader. Why is Rob's Footprints series not in Moodle reader? We presently use only Oxford, Penguin and Macmillan .All superb, but Footprints would be a welcome addition. All opinions are welcome. Rob? Happy New Year!

            Cheers,

            Frank

            --- On Fri, 1/27/12, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

            From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
            Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Graded reader information
            To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, January 27, 2012, 8:10 PM

             
            Personally, when I look for graded readers now, I'm afraid the first thing I consider is whether they have a MoodleReader quiz. My students are so apathetic that they need the carrot/stick of a quiz before they will ever pick up a book, and I refuse to have book reports nowadays. Courses with 120-160 students prohibit that.

            Next, I look for the genre and (native speaker?) age level that the book was designed for, and if it's designed for native speakers or not. Also, if the book is already in my collection (publishers often have the same titles) or if it's a stale-sounding title (sorry, Shakespeareans!).

            Next, I look for the publisher's assigned reading level, no. of headwords, and then total word count.

            Finally, if the book also has an accompanying audio CD or downloadable audio file, that would be great (although I'm not at the stage yet where my students take advantage of any listening options).

            Glenski











          • Rob Waring
            Hi ... RW: Well put. The learners need to understand the structures and content well enough so they can read it. But if they don t because the text is too
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi
              On Feb 1, 2012, at 6:56 PM, john callahan wrote:

               

              E.R in Foreign languages It doesnt matter what language you are reading the principal is still the same-the learner has to know the structures and content well enough to be able  anticipate what is coming ...in order to maintain executive control and successful metacognition 

              RW: Well put. The learners need to understand the structures and content well enough so they can read it. But if they don't because the text is too hard, we give them something they can read. i.e something at a level they can cope with.

              Rob
            • Sharon Domier
              I think this is likely my first posting to the group. I am a librarian, specifically a Japanese studies librarian, and I am interested in extensive reading for
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 1, 2012
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                I think this is likely my first posting to the group. I am a librarian, specifically a Japanese studies librarian, and I am interested in extensive reading for Japanese language learners. Unlike English language learners, there are very few graded readers for Japanese, and so I am scouring bookstores and libraries for commercially available materials that would be appropriate for them and then a system to make them available in North American academic libraries. If there is anyone on this list who is also working on non-English languages, I would be happy to hear from you. 

                But what I really wanted to write about is the difficulty of getting students to read things that they aren't interested in. It is the typical teaching dilemma that librarians don't usually have to deal with. If students really want to read something, they will slog their way through it. If they don't want to but have to read something, it had better be easy or they will give up. Graded readers are intended to make it easier for them, and I think that they are really helpful especially for ambivalent readers. 

                Someone on the list posted a reading list that included a number of items with movie tie-ins. I see a fair bit of that. It is something that the students can relate to and they will be rewarded by watching the movie when they have made their way through the book. I can see the value of that over graded readers that are of little relevance to the student. 

                If you teach classes so large that students don't have a chance to share their feelings and questions about the books that they are reading, it must be frustrating to all. I have been reading some K-6 education books about teaching reading. I wonder if they apply in this kind of situation. I am curious about what kinds of strategies you apply to make reading fun and rewarding to your students.

                Sharon Domier 
              • Mark Brierley
                Hi Sharon, I won t get into your second question, except to agree that the biggest challenge for ER, in my opinion, is finding books that are easy enough and
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                  Hi Sharon,

                  I won't get into your second question, except to agree that the biggest challenge for ER, in my opinion, is finding books that are easy enough and interesting enough for students. For any given student, there are still very few!

                  Here is a lead for you on your first question: It's a blog of someone doing ER in the US in Japanese: http://joechip.net/extensivereading/tag/sakai-kunihide/

                  She mentions in this post Sakai Kunihide, who, it seem may also be able to help. 

                  My feeling is that Japan is a print-rich country and while there is very little L2 learner-targeted literature, there is probably a lot out there. For example, there is a huge range of manga, in many genres where the pictures can help comprehension, and if they are targeted to Children, any kanji have rubi next to them, so you can read them with limited kanji. 

                  Mark



                  On Feb 3, 2012 11:24 PM, "Sharon Domier" <sdomier@...> wrote:
                   

                  I think this is likely my first posting to the group. I am a librarian, specifically a Japanese studies librarian, and I am interested in extensive reading for Japanese language learners. Unlike English language learners, there are very few graded readers for Japanese, and so I am scouring bookstores and libraries for commercially available materials that would be appropriate for them and then a system to make them available in North American academic libraries. If there is anyone on this list who is also working on non-English languages, I would be happy to hear from you. 

                  But what I really wanted to write about is the difficulty of getting students to read things that they aren't interested in. It is the typical teaching dilemma that librarians don't usually have to deal with. If students really want to read something, they will slog their way through it. If they don't want to but have to read something, it had better be easy or they will give up. Graded readers are intended to make it easier for them, and I think that they are really helpful especially for ambivalent readers. 

                  Someone on the list posted a reading list that included a number of items with movie tie-ins. I see a fair bit of that. It is something that the students can relate to and they will be rewarded by watching the movie when they have made their way through the book. I can see the value of that over graded readers that are of little relevance to the student. 

                  If you teach classes so large that students don't have a chance to share their feelings and questions about the books that they are reading, it must be frustrating to all. I have been reading some K-6 education books about teaching reading. I wonder if they apply in this kind of situation. I am curious about what kinds of strategies you apply to make reading fun and rewarding to your students.

                  Sharon Domier 

                • Glen Hill
                  Hi, Sharon, I think there are some people on this list who can give you info on graded Japanese readers. As for this: If you teach classes so large that
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 3, 2012
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                    Hi, Sharon,
                    I think there are some people on this list who can give you info on graded Japanese readers.

                    As for this:
                    If you teach classes so large that students don't have a chance to share their feelings and questions about the books that they are reading, it must be frustrating to all.
                    Yes, indeed! I have 4 sections of English language learners with 40 students in each. Try getting them to talk about what they just finished reading for 30 minutes in class, even if you give them prompts and vocabulary. I even let them use Japanese to discuss, despite providing them with some English vocab. It's hard, and the teacher had better be prepared to wander through the aisles and chip in on conversations (and listen for non-book related chatter) before calling it off. I give 5-10 minutes.

                    But I still think giving them words to use (various genres, for one, including the word genre itself) is a step forward. Makes for good test question material, too!

                    Glenski

                  • Sharon Domier
                    Thank you Glenski, I agree that students need to have vocabulary - and you are right that does include words like genre. I know that I have been remiss in the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 4, 2012
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                      Thank you Glenski,
                      I agree that students need to have vocabulary - and you are right that does include words like genre. I know that I have been remiss in the past in doing that for my library instruction sessions. One day I gave students a handout of commons words used in a Japanese library catalog (author, title, subject, keyword) with the readings attached and the students almost cried in relief because they didn't want to say they didn't know the terms and yet they really didn't know what they were looking at. Now I don't assume too much but try to provide vocabulary in context for them to use. 

                      In our first year Japanese class, after the students read the folk tale Kasajizo and looked up the words they didn't know, we handed out kamishibai sheets with the images but no text and asked the students to (1) put the images in the order of the story and (2) tell the story in their own words. This was one of our information literacy related classes. Students learned how to use a Japanese-English dictionary for the first time (instead of getting vocabulary sheets), figured out what information they needed to do their assignment, did the work, and produced something new. As a final step we then introduced them to other folk tales and asked them to read one more from one of the books in the library (or on the web).

                      Sharon 




                      But I still think giving them words to use (various genres, for one, including the word genre itself) is a step forward. Makes for good test question material, too!

                      Glenski
                    • Paul Evans
                      About Extensive Reading for learners of Japanese, I have not spent a lot of time on this site, so I don t know how well it is maintained, but I think it will
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 4, 2012
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                        About Extensive Reading for learners of Japanese, I have not spent a lot of time on this site, so I don't know how well it is maintained, but I think it will be helpful to you: http://www.nihongo-yomu.jp/en.html

                        Paul Evans
                        Kyoto

                        On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 5:03 AM, Sharon Domier <sdomier@...> wrote:
                         

                        I think this is likely my first posting to the group. I am a librarian, specifically a Japanese studies librarian, and I am interested in extensive reading for Japanese language learners. Unlike English language learners, there are very few graded readers for Japanese, and so I am scouring bookstores and libraries for commercially available materials that would be appropriate for them and then a system to make them available in North American academic libraries. If there is anyone on this list who is also working on non-English languages, I would be happy to hear from you. 

                        But what I really wanted to write about is the difficulty of getting students to read things that they aren't interested in. It is the typical teaching dilemma that librarians don't usually have to deal with. If students really want to read something, they will slog their way through it. If they don't want to but have to read something, it had better be easy or they will give up. Graded readers are intended to make it easier for them, and I think that they are really helpful especially for ambivalent readers. 

                        Someone on the list posted a reading list that included a number of items with movie tie-ins. I see a fair bit of that. It is something that the students can relate to and they will be rewarded by watching the movie when they have made their way through the book. I can see the value of that over graded readers that are of little relevance to the student. 

                        If you teach classes so large that students don't have a chance to share their feelings and questions about the books that they are reading, it must be frustrating to all. I have been reading some K-6 education books about teaching reading. I wonder if they apply in this kind of situation. I am curious about what kinds of strategies you apply to make reading fun and rewarding to your students.

                        Sharon Domier 


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