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Re: [ExtensiveReading] On online ER

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  • juanarturo Pino
    Hi all, The reason I ask is that a decision must be made on whether or not we transfer classroom paper-based (short articles)  ER to the computer room. Trying
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 1, 2009
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      Hi all,
      The reason I ask is that a decision must be made on whether or not we transfer classroom paper-based (short articles)  ER to the computer room. Trying outs with  Ss indicate the gains could be  many: some hint(s) of comprehension can be recorded before reading the next text in line, an indication of whether or not Ss like or dislike a text is left in there, an online dictionary can be or cannot be added, and  tons of  material available to use, maintain or  replace in the computer software especially designed for this actvity is available. Importantly ER done this way  can be linked to extensive listening and to reaction writing, material selection, vocabulary acquisition,  among other things. To give you an idea, Ss read a text without title and from a windows next to it select a title from five given alternatives, a gross mode to verify comprehension.
      Best,
      Juan
         
       
      --- On Sat, 10/31/09, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

      From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] On online ER
      To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 5:18 AM

       
      One advantage online reading has over paper text is that if you are using a hand-held reader (iPhone, e.g.), the light allows you to read it in dim lighting (like on that bus ride home).

      If you use text-to-speech software like Natural Reader, you might even get the sounds pronounced as you read (or let it read for you).
      Glenski

      On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Rob Waring <waring_robert@ yahoo.com> wrote:
       
      Juan,

      Any form of reading that is done fluently with high levels of comprehension that focuses on the content, not the language itself, can be counted as ER. Thus reading graded readers, magazines, webpages, cereal packets, road signs, adverts, legal documents etc can all count as ER provided that they are read fluently and with high levels of comprehension. Whether someone is reading extensively or not depends on what's happening in their head. ER is a property of brains not materials.

      Rob

      At 12:53 AM 10/31/2009, Juanarturo P wrote:
       

      Delurking... here. Hi all,

      A quick note on online reading. In response to the question What advantages does online ER offer? 26 out of 64 Ss responded to an ad-hoc e-mail that, (a) they preferred on-screen reading to paper-based reading in class, (b) make vocabulary lists as they read in their computers and share these lists in the YG with their classmates, etc. Do we have to stretch our definitions (and practice) of ER to accommodate online ER? I invite comments.
      Best Regards,
      Juan


      Cheers

      Rob

      waring_robert@ yahoo.com
      Skype: waring_robert


    • Glen Hill
      Juan, Aside from some of the pro-paper remarks and tongue-in-cheek remarks I ve posted here, I d like to address your post below a bit more seriously. First
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 3, 2009
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        Juan,
        Aside from some of the pro-paper remarks and tongue-in-cheek remarks I've posted here, I'd like to address your post below a bit more seriously.  First off, I am all in favor of ER.  I just wish I could get my students to read...period.  Last semester they were supposed to read 5 books for 10% of their grade in my reading skills course, and half the class never touched a single book!

        Second, doing ER in a computer room doesn't really sound like ER to me.  I mean, if the only reading they do takes place there, then it's not extensive, but intensive.  Granted, they might access materials outside the class and make it truly extensive but only if they read a lot.  I wasn't sure if your Ss do / did that.

        Third, the testing and feedback surveying that can be done in a CALL / LL room are definitely pluses (although by themselves are not what I'd call ER). Getting Ss to use online dictionaries would also be nice, and depending on one's CALL room the Ss might have to upload one every time they log on.  We're still fighting that problem.  What's more, even though most (80-90%) of my students claim to have J-E dictionaries (paper or electronic version), some students are stingy enough to use whatever dictionary they can access through their cell phones instead! And, on top of that, just last week I overheard 2 students asking each other about the meaning of a word, both looked stumped, and when I asked them to check their dictionaries, one said he forgot his and the other said she didn't have one.  I pointed out the availability of online dictionaries that I'd linked on my Moodle site, pointed to the link on the screen in front of her, and almost cried when she exclaimed in total surprise, "Sugoi!" as if it were the first time she'd ever seen it.  So, teachers still have to defeat the mentality of some students.

        Testing comprehension is tough for true ER, I feel.  Micro-book reports, group oral reporting vs. whole class reporting, online (Moodle) quizzes with 60% pass rate.  I've tried them all with only limited success. If anyone else who believes (like me) that students should show they've comprehended the text has ways to get the vast majority to do it, I'd like to know how.

        Glenski

        On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 9:49 PM, juanarturo Pino <educaonline2@...> wrote:
         

        Hi all,
        The reason I ask is that a decision must be made on whether or not we transfer classroom paper-based (short articles)  ER to the computer room. Trying outs with  Ss indicate the gains could be  many: some hint(s) of comprehension can be recorded before reading the next text in line, an indication of whether or not Ss like or dislike a text is left in there, an online dictionary can be or cannot be added, and  tons of  material available to use, maintain or  replace in the computer software especially designed for this actvity is available. Importantly ER done this way  can be linked to extensive listening and to reaction writing, material selection, vocabulary acquisition,  among other things. To give you an idea, Ss read a text without title and from a windows next to it select a title from five given alternatives, a gross mode to verify comprehension.
        Best,
        Juan
           
         
        --- On Sat, 10/31/09, Glen Hill <glenahill@...> wrote:

        From: Glen Hill <glenahill@...>
        Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] On online ER
        To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, October 31, 2009, 5:18 AM


         
        One advantage online reading has over paper text is that if you are using a hand-held reader (iPhone, e.g.), the light allows you to read it in dim lighting (like on that bus ride home).

        If you use text-to-speech software like Natural Reader, you might even get the sounds pronounced as you read (or let it read for you).
        Glenski

        On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Rob Waring <waring_robert@ yahoo.com> wrote:
         
        Juan,

        Any form of reading that is done fluently with high levels of comprehension that focuses on the content, not the language itself, can be counted as ER. Thus reading graded readers, magazines, webpages, cereal packets, road signs, adverts, legal documents etc can all count as ER provided that they are read fluently and with high levels of comprehension. Whether someone is reading extensively or not depends on what's happening in their head. ER is a property of brains not materials.

        Rob

        At 12:53 AM 10/31/2009, Juanarturo P wrote:
         

        Delurking... here. Hi all,

        A quick note on online reading. In response to the question What advantages does online ER offer? 26 out of 64 Ss responded to an ad-hoc e-mail that, (a) they preferred on-screen reading to paper-based reading in class, (b) make vocabulary lists as they read in their computers and share these lists in the YG with their classmates, etc. Do we have to stretch our definitions (and practice) of ER to accommodate online ER? I invite comments.
        Best Regards,
        Juan


        Cheers

        Rob

        waring_robert@ yahoo.com
        Skype: waring_robert



      • Ron Murphy
        Hi all. I m wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little problem ... I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center s library. I
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 15, 2009
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          Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little
          "problem"...

          I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center's
          library. I have had a stack of Amelia Bedelia books staring at me
          for over a week now daring me to choose what category they will go
          in. Much of the language, of course, is within reach of our
          students. But there is so much colloquial language that I wonder if
          it will leave our students confused and frustrated. After all, we
          are advertising GRs as "easy reading".

          I am considering putting a note on each Amelia book letting the
          students know that the premise of this series rests on the dual/
          multiple meanings of certain terms. I recognize the learning
          potential that this series play-on- words could represent. But most
          of our students are not eager enough to go to the necessary lengths
          for such learning to occur.

          Just curious what you all think of Amelia Bedelia in a GR library
          (not technically GRs, I know), my idea, etc.

          Thanks.

          Ron
        • Glen Hill
          Ron, What categories do you have now? I only use fiction and non-fiction, with some subdivisions of non-fiction. Glenski
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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            Ron,
            What categories do you have now?  I only use fiction and non-fiction, with some subdivisions of non-fiction.
            Glenski

            On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Ron Murphy <murphy@...-u.ac.jp> wrote:
             

            Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little
            "problem"...

            I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center's
            library. I have had a stack of Amelia Bedelia books staring at me
            for over a week now daring me to choose what category they will go
            in. Much of the language, of course, is within reach of our
            students. But there is so much colloquial language that I wonder if
            it will leave our students confused and frustrated. After all, we
            are advertising GRs as "easy reading".

            I am considering putting a note on each Amelia book letting the
            students know that the premise of this series rests on the dual/
            multiple meanings of certain terms. I recognize the learning
            potential that this series play-on- words could represent. But most
            of our students are not eager enough to go to the necessary lengths
            for such learning to occur.

            Just curious what you all think of Amelia Bedelia in a GR library
            (not technically GRs, I know), my idea, etc.

            Thanks.

            Ron


          • tom mccarthy
            I have a category called Children s Books-Native Speakers . And put all of them in there. As you say, there s a lot of unusual usage and vocabulary there
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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              I have a category called "Children's Books-Native Speakers". And put
              all of them in there. As you say, there's a lot of unusual usage and
              vocabulary there which tickles the imagination of Native kids, but will
              leave L2 learners scratching their noggins and thumbing through their
              dictionaries.

              BTW, my great-grandmother's name was Amelia Adelia.
              On Nov 16, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Ron Murphy wrote:

              > Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little
              > "problem"...
              >
              > I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center's
              > library. I have had a stack of Amelia Bedelia books staring at me
              > for over a week now daring me to choose what category they will go
              > in. Much of the language, of course, is within reach of our
              > students. But there is so much colloquial language that I wonder if
              > it will leave our students confused and frustrated. After all, we
              > are advertising GRs as "easy reading".
              >
              > I am considering putting a note on each Amelia book letting the
              > students know that the premise of this series rests on the dual/
              > multiple meanings of certain terms. I recognize the learning
              > potential that this series play-on- words could represent. But most
              > of our students are not eager enough to go to the necessary lengths
              > for such learning to occur.
              >
              > Just curious what you all think of Amelia Bedelia in a GR library
              > (not technically GRs, I know), my idea, etc.
              >
              > Thanks.
              >
              > Ron
              >
            • Rosemary Schmid
              I like this category of Children s Book-Native Speakers. The illustrations usually show the pun. I have used Amelia with many adults and they were delighted.
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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                I like this category of Children's Book-Native Speakers.
                The illustrations usually show the pun. I have used Amelia with many adults and they were delighted. The illustration shows the strange behavior, and the dictionary work is like working a puzzle - lots of aha moments. Great pair work. Not quiet reading though!

                Rosemary Schmid
                Charlotte, NC USA

                --- On Mon, 11/16/09, tom mccarthy <speakup@...> wrote:

                From: tom mccarthy <speakup@...>
                Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] Amelia Bedelia
                To: ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, November 16, 2009, 5:03 AM

                I have a category called "Children's Books-Native Speakers".  And put
                all of them in there. As you say, there's a lot of unusual usage and
                vocabulary there which tickles the imagination of Native kids, but will
                leave L2 learners scratching their noggins and thumbing through their
                dictionaries.


              • Thomas N. Robb
                We have quite a bit of native speaker youth literature in our own library and we have found that we have to place it up rather high in our set of 10 levels.
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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                  We have quite a bit of native speaker "youth literature" in our own library and we have found that we have to place it up rather high in our set of 10 levels.

                  We have the Baby Sitters Club books and Judy Blume's pegged at Level 7, which is the same as Bookworms Stage 4, Macmillan Pre-Intermediate and Penguin Readers Level 4.
                  We have the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew series pegged at level 8 since they are even more complex than the ones previously mentioned.

                  One thing that might help is to paste into the inside front cover some "cultural notes" that might help them understand some of the complexities.  You could even define the most vexing of the complex language there.

                  Hope this helps.

                  Cheers,
                    Tom Robb, Kyoto

                  --
                  ******* Don't miss GLoCALL 2009  in Chiang Mai, Thailand!  *********
                  ************** Dec, 8-11, 2009  http://glocall.org ******************

                  ** Thomas N. Robb, Ph.D., Kyoto Sangyo University, Japan  **
                  **                       <trobb@...-su.ac.jp>                        **
                  **           http://www.cc.kyoto-su.ac.jp/~trobb/index.html            **
                • Ron Murphy
                  Glen, Tom et al.... I should have used the term level rather than category. Our levels are similar to Penguin s. I did think of providing a page like Tom
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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                    Glen, Tom et al....

                    I should have used the term "level" rather than category.  Our levels are similar to Penguin's.   I did think of providing a page like Tom (Robb) suggests, which would help our lower level readers...




                    On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Glen Hill wrote:

                     

                    Ron,
                    What categories do you have now?  I only use fiction and non-fiction, with some subdivisions of non-fiction.
                    Glenski

                    On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Ron Murphy <murphy@...- u.ac.jp> wrote:
                     

                    Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little
                    "problem"...

                    I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center's
                    library. I have had a stack of Amelia Bedelia books staring at me
                    for over a week now daring me to choose what category they will go
                    in. Much of the language, of course, is within reach of our
                    students. But there is so much colloquial language that I wonder if
                    it will leave our students confused and frustrated. After all, we
                    are advertising GRs as "easy reading".

                    I am considering putting a note on each Amelia book letting the
                    students know that the premise of this series rests on the dual/
                    multiple meanings of certain terms. I recognize the learning
                    potential that this series play-on- words could represent. But most
                    of our students are not eager enough to go to the necessary lengths
                    for such learning to occur.

                    Just curious what you all think of Amelia Bedelia in a GR library
                    (not technically GRs, I know), my idea, etc.

                    Thanks.

                    Ron




                  • Glen Hill
                    Ron, Do those books have an EPER level? You might be able to reference them to something else if they do, using Rob Waring s previously linked tables of ER
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 16, 2009
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                      Ron,
                      Do those books have an EPER level?  You might be able to reference them to something else if they do, using Rob Waring's previously linked tables of ER level comparisons.
                      Glenski

                      On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Ron Murphy <murphy@...-u.ac.jp> wrote:
                       

                      Glen, Tom et al....


                      I should have used the term "level" rather than category.  Our levels are similar to Penguin's.   I did think of providing a page like Tom (Robb) suggests, which would help our lower level readers...





                      On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Glen Hill wrote:

                       

                      Ron,
                      What categories do you have now?  I only use fiction and non-fiction, with some subdivisions of non-fiction.
                      Glenski

                      On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Ron Murphy <murphy@...-u.ac.jp> wrote:
                       

                      Hi all. I'm wondering if anyone would care to comment on my little
                      "problem"...

                      I do the categorizing of graded readers for our English Center's
                      library. I have had a stack of Amelia Bedelia books staring at me
                      for over a week now daring me to choose what category they will go
                      in. Much of the language, of course, is within reach of our
                      students. But there is so much colloquial language that I wonder if
                      it will leave our students confused and frustrated. After all, we
                      are advertising GRs as "easy reading".

                      I am considering putting a note on each Amelia book letting the
                      students know that the premise of this series rests on the dual/
                      multiple meanings of certain terms. I recognize the learning
                      potential that this series play-on- words could represent. But most
                      of our students are not eager enough to go to the necessary lengths
                      for such learning to occur.

                      Just curious what you all think of Amelia Bedelia in a GR library
                      (not technically GRs, I know), my idea, etc.

                      Thanks.

                      Ron





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