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Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels

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  • EPER Enquiries
    Clive My prejudice against using such books as you list in a language learning programme means that I have never graded them or tried to put them into an er
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 5 6:32 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Clive

      My prejudice against using such books as you list in a language learning
      programme means that I have never graded them or tried to put them into an
      er programme.

      A study of baby literature has its place and the "cute" factor will attract
      your girls to read (or look at) them. Maybe it will even lead some to
      serious language learning.

      I would rather try EPER starter cards and reading cards but you might like
      to look up www.usborne.com and see if their ELT programme is progressing.
      They publish over 1000 baby books and have begun to issue them with an ELT
      text. I have a flyer in front of me with 3 levels and several titles at
      each level. I think that they are aimed at aspiring middle class families
      who may use English at home and want to help their young children.

      The cute factor operates all over the far east, viz the popularity of
      hallmark cards. I wonder what the boys get. Presumably the sex and
      violence offered to them
      in the comic books. I do not like them any better!

      Not very helpful, I am afraid, but that is where I stand.

      Best wishes

      David

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
      To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 AM
      Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels


      > David
      >
      > We seem to have been writing at cross-purposes. I assumed you knew my
      > students are university students, so I didn't mention it, but the
      > mention of books for younger NS kids threw you off the scent.
      >
      > Many of our students come to as at EPER level G, and a few are even
      > lower - not yet ready for ER, therefore, in addition to the regular
      > publishers' graded readers, which appear on your levels chart, we also
      > provide books for develping literacy in young NS kids - particularly
      > ones in the Ladybird "Read It Yourself" (mostly level G), "Favourite
      > Tales" series, ( which I've put at Level E - linguistically higher than
      > that , but loads of v.g. illustrations), and the Ladybird Children's
      > Classics series (Level C or B?).
      >
      > This in turn has led to some of my (non-Japanese) teachers of English
      > bringing in more difficult children's literature for native speakers,
      > which their kids have deiscarded. Some of these are for quite young
      > kids, but in very sophisticated language - like the Beatrix Potter
      > "Peter Rabbit" stories, A.A. Milne's "Now We Are Six" poetry anthology
      > and Nick Butterworth's tales of Percy the park keeper. I've got an
      > anthology of stories called "More Bedtime Tales" published by Cavendish
      > House, London (no author's name) (UK upper primary level) and an "Archie
      > Andrews" comic book at about the same age level; some "Babysitters Club"
      > stories for teenagers; Roald Dahl's "The Twits" and "The Giraffe and the
      > Pelly & Me" and "The Midnight Fox" by Betsy Byars. These books are all
      > obviously unsuitable for our lower level students, being linguistically
      > too difficult, but a lot of our (female) students are very interested in
      > children's literature, and some of them would find these books fun to
      > read, even though challenging. I imagine you're familiar with quite a
      > few of these. I'd like to know where to fit them on your scale.
      >
      > Sorry to have been so inexplicit previously.
      >
      > Clive
      >
      > David R. Hill wrote:
      > > Clive,
      > >
      > > I see what you are after. But what sort of books are you trying to
      assign
      > > to levels A or X?
      > >
      > > In Malaysia we developed a three-stage level U for adudlt unsimplified
      books
      > > to be tackled after Level X.
      > >
      > > For Hong Kong I classified children's literature at levels B-X according
      to
      > > the length, complexity of the story and style of writing in a sort of
      global
      > > hunch as to the overall readability compared to the standard graded
      readers.
      > >
      > > But the acid test is how the students find them.
      > >
      > > Best wishes
      > >
      > > David
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
      > > To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:46 AM
      > > Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>Dear David
      > >>
      > >>Thank you for your reply. Either I didn't express myself clearly or you
      > >>need to read my message more intensively! My request is for help in
      > >>grading books at the top two levels that aren't covered by your
      > >>publishers' series chart. Can you supply any criteria for deciding if a
      > >>book is level A or X or lower, or is it just something you've developed
      > >>a feel for, which would involve you writing a book to try to explain? If
      > >>the latter, I'll quite understand your reluctance to respond, but a
      > >>rough guide would be great.
      > >>
      > >>Clive
      > >>
      > >>David R. Hill wrote:
      > >>
      > >>>Dear Clive
      > >>>
      > >>>I found that Scholastic books written for the 9-12 age group of NS
      > >>
      > > worked
      > >
      > >>>quite well for the Hong Kong junior secondary children from Level B up.
      > >>
      > > I
      > >
      > >>>used them and the equivalent from UK publishers in preference to graded
      > >>>readers at Level A and X, and hoped that they would progress up through
      > >>>teenage fiction to adult fiction.
      > >>>
      > >>>At level B there are still some graded reders that are aimed at chldren
      > >>
      > > or
      > >
      > >>>teenagers. Above that they are all much more adult and entirely
      > >>
      > > suitable
      > >
      > >>>for Senior Secondary and Tertiary. The problem for them is how to
      > >>
      > > bridge
      > >
      > >>>the undoubgted gap between level X and adult unsimplified (whichare
      > >>
      > > usually
      > >
      > >>>very long and full of difficult allusions).
      > >>>
      > >>>There is unfortunately no world-wide equivlanet of Macmillan's
      > >>
      > > Pacesetters
      > >
      > >>>forAfrica which are unsimplified and about 150 pages. The nearest is
      > >>
      > > Mills
      > >
      > >>>and Boon, which are not to be dismissed out of hand, expecially for
      > >>
      > > girls.
      > >
      > >>>Most NNS teachers in Malaysia attributed their skill in English
      entirely
      > >>
      > > to
      > >
      > >>>M&B!!
      > >>>
      > >>>Otherwise it is a trial and error process using titles like
      > >>>Sherlock Holmes
      > >>>The Pearl
      > >>>39 Steps
      > >>>detective stories
      > >>>etc
      > >>>
      > >>>Short stories get round the big problem of length but do not allow the
      > >>>learner to get stuck into a story that lasts a long time.
      > >>>
      > >>>Hope this clarifies things a bit.
      > >>>
      > >>>Best wishes.
      > >>>
      > >>>David
      > >>>
      > >>>PS Am glad the Lord's Day Resistance Army was not around in Uganda in
      > >>
      > > our
      > >
      > >>>day. They seem to be utterly evil.
      > >>>
      > >>>---- Original Message -----
      > >>>From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
      > >>>To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
      > >>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:26 AM
      > >>>Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>>Dear David
      > >>>>
      > >>>>Tracy's query and your response reminded mean that I've been meaning
      to
      > >>>>ask you something for some time now, but only seemed to remember when
      I
      > >>>>was not seated at my computer, or when I was too busy with other
      > >>>>priorities. At last intention, attention and location have come into a
      > >>>>favourable alignment as they say in astrology.
      > >>>>
      > >>>>I'd like to ask you if you can give me some guidance on how to
      > >>>>distinguish between level A and level X reading materials. I've
      acquired
      > >>>>various books from friends whose (English native speaking) children
      have
      > >>>>grown out of them. In other words, they're not graded readers, but are
      > >>>>in relatively easy English for NS kids of various ages from elementary
      > >>>>school to teenage. Any suggestions?
      > >>>>
      > >>>>Clive
      > >>>>
      > >>>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Clive Lovelock
      David Message received and understood. And I m of the same opinion regarding books that I consider simply childish. The absence of reward (motivation to read)
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 7 5:08 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        David

        Message received and understood. And I'm of the same opinion regarding
        books that I consider simply childish. The absence of reward (motivation
        to read) from reading unsuitable content more than cancels out the
        apparent "value" of understandability while conforming to the sacred cow
        of seeking "authentic" texts.

        However, I would never consider these texts for low level readers. my
        whole point is that they are either level A or level X. They are of
        interest to adult students who are interested in children's LITERATURE -
        not literacy. many of these students may later get jobs teaching young
        children, or have children of their own, or they may be interested in
        one of the sources of western culture (apart, of coure, from the "cute"
        or nostalia factors). How many babies have you come across that can
        understand - or enjoy - Beatrix Potter?

        So my question is not "Have you graded these texts and if so, what level
        are they?" but "Can you offer any simple guidelines for me to
        distinguish between levels A and X?" I can do it for levels G to B,
        because I'm used to teaching students at roughly those levels in terms
        of grammatical and lexical level, and have a bit of a feel for other
        factors like sentence length, conceptual difficulty, role of
        illustrations, etc.. But I find I'm out of my depth at your highest two
        levels because it's literally decades since I regularly taught students
        at those levels (when I taught in Europe). I don't have an image in my
        mind of what a class at that level would be like. I just deal with each
        student individually and assess what problems the each have.

        CL

        EPER Enquiries wrote:
        > Clive
        >
        > My prejudice against using such books as you list in a language learning
        > programme means that I have never graded them or tried to put them into an
        > er programme.
        >
        > A study of baby literature has its place and the "cute" factor will attract
        > your girls to read (or look at) them. Maybe it will even lead some to
        > serious language learning.
        >
        > I would rather try EPER starter cards and reading cards but you might like
        > to look up www.usborne.com and see if their ELT programme is progressing.
        > They publish over 1000 baby books and have begun to issue them with an ELT
        > text. I have a flyer in front of me with 3 levels and several titles at
        > each level. I think that they are aimed at aspiring middle class families
        > who may use English at home and want to help their young children.
        >
        > The cute factor operates all over the far east, viz the popularity of
        > hallmark cards. I wonder what the boys get. Presumably the sex and
        > violence offered to them
        > in the comic books. I do not like them any better!
        >
        > Not very helpful, I am afraid, but that is where I stand.
        >
        > Best wishes
        >
        > David
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
        > To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 AM
        > Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
        >
        >
        >
        >>David
        >>
        >>We seem to have been writing at cross-purposes. I assumed you knew my
        >>students are university students, so I didn't mention it, but the
        >>mention of books for younger NS kids threw you off the scent.
        >>
        >>Many of our students come to as at EPER level G, and a few are even
        >>lower - not yet ready for ER, therefore, in addition to the regular
        >>publishers' graded readers, which appear on your levels chart, we also
        >>provide books for develping literacy in young NS kids - particularly
        >>ones in the Ladybird "Read It Yourself" (mostly level G), "Favourite
        >>Tales" series, ( which I've put at Level E - linguistically higher than
        >>that , but loads of v.g. illustrations), and the Ladybird Children's
        >>Classics series (Level C or B?).
        >>
        >>This in turn has led to some of my (non-Japanese) teachers of English
        >>bringing in more difficult children's literature for native speakers,
        >>which their kids have deiscarded. Some of these are for quite young
        >>kids, but in very sophisticated language - like the Beatrix Potter
        >>"Peter Rabbit" stories, A.A. Milne's "Now We Are Six" poetry anthology
        >>and Nick Butterworth's tales of Percy the park keeper. I've got an
        >>anthology of stories called "More Bedtime Tales" published by Cavendish
        >>House, London (no author's name) (UK upper primary level) and an "Archie
        >>Andrews" comic book at about the same age level; some "Babysitters Club"
        >>stories for teenagers; Roald Dahl's "The Twits" and "The Giraffe and the
        >>Pelly & Me" and "The Midnight Fox" by Betsy Byars. These books are all
        >>obviously unsuitable for our lower level students, being linguistically
        >>too difficult, but a lot of our (female) students are very interested in
        >>children's literature, and some of them would find these books fun to
        >>read, even though challenging. I imagine you're familiar with quite a
        >>few of these. I'd like to know where to fit them on your scale.
        >>
        >>Sorry to have been so inexplicit previously.
        >>
        >>Clive
        >>
        >>David R. Hill wrote:
        >>
        >>>Clive,
        >>>
        >>>I see what you are after. But what sort of books are you trying to
        >>
        > assign
        >
        >>>to levels A or X?
        >>>
        >>>In Malaysia we developed a three-stage level U for adudlt unsimplified
        >>
        > books
        >
        >>>to be tackled after Level X.
        >>>
        >>>For Hong Kong I classified children's literature at levels B-X according
        >>
        > to
        >
        >>>the length, complexity of the story and style of writing in a sort of
        >>
        > global
        >
        >>>hunch as to the overall readability compared to the standard graded
        >>
        > readers.
        >
        >>>But the acid test is how the students find them.
        >>>
        >>>Best wishes
        >>>
        >>>David
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>----- Original Message -----
        >>>From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
        >>>To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
        >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:46 AM
        >>>Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>Dear David
        >>>>
        >>>>Thank you for your reply. Either I didn't express myself clearly or you
        >>>>need to read my message more intensively! My request is for help in
        >>>>grading books at the top two levels that aren't covered by your
        >>>>publishers' series chart. Can you supply any criteria for deciding if a
        >>>>book is level A or X or lower, or is it just something you've developed
        >>>>a feel for, which would involve you writing a book to try to explain? If
        >>>>the latter, I'll quite understand your reluctance to respond, but a
        >>>>rough guide would be great.
        >>>>
        >>>>Clive
        >>>>
        >>>>David R. Hill wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>>Dear Clive
        >>>>>
        >>>>>I found that Scholastic books written for the 9-12 age group of NS
        >>>>
        >>>worked
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>quite well for the Hong Kong junior secondary children from Level B up.
        >>>>
        >>>I
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>used them and the equivalent from UK publishers in preference to graded
        >>>>>readers at Level A and X, and hoped that they would progress up through
        >>>>>teenage fiction to adult fiction.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>At level B there are still some graded reders that are aimed at chldren
        >>>>
        >>>or
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>teenagers. Above that they are all much more adult and entirely
        >>>>
        >>>suitable
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>for Senior Secondary and Tertiary. The problem for them is how to
        >>>>
        >>>bridge
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>the undoubgted gap between level X and adult unsimplified (whichare
        >>>>
        >>>usually
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>very long and full of difficult allusions).
        >>>>>
        >>>>>There is unfortunately no world-wide equivlanet of Macmillan's
        >>>>
        >>>Pacesetters
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>forAfrica which are unsimplified and about 150 pages. The nearest is
        >>>>
        >>>Mills
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>and Boon, which are not to be dismissed out of hand, expecially for
        >>>>
        >>>girls.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>Most NNS teachers in Malaysia attributed their skill in English
        >>>>
        > entirely
        >
        >>>to
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>M&B!!
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Otherwise it is a trial and error process using titles like
        >>>>>Sherlock Holmes
        >>>>>The Pearl
        >>>>>39 Steps
        >>>>>detective stories
        >>>>>etc
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Short stories get round the big problem of length but do not allow the
        >>>>>learner to get stuck into a story that lasts a long time.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Hope this clarifies things a bit.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>Best wishes.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>David
        >>>>>
        >>>>>PS Am glad the Lord's Day Resistance Army was not around in Uganda in
        >>>>
        >>>our
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>>>day. They seem to be utterly evil.
        >>>>>
        >>>>>---- Original Message -----
        >>>>>From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
        >>>>>To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
        >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:26 AM
        >>>>>Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>>Dear David
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>Tracy's query and your response reminded mean that I've been meaning
        >>>>>
        > to
        >
        >>>>>>ask you something for some time now, but only seemed to remember when
        >>>>>
        > I
        >
        >>>>>>was not seated at my computer, or when I was too busy with other
        >>>>>>priorities. At last intention, attention and location have come into a
        >>>>>>favourable alignment as they say in astrology.
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>I'd like to ask you if you can give me some guidance on how to
        >>>>>>distinguish between level A and level X reading materials. I've
        >>>>>
        > acquired
        >
        >>>>>>various books from friends whose (English native speaking) children
        >>>>>
        > have
        >
        >>>>>>grown out of them. In other words, they're not graded readers, but are
        >>>>>>in relatively easy English for NS kids of various ages from elementary
        >>>>>>school to teenage. Any suggestions?
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>>Clive
        >>>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • EPER Enquiries
        Clive I think we are beginning to communicate! No, I cannot summarise the difference between A and X. My approach is entirely pragmatic. In your place I
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 8 3:55 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Clive

          I think we are beginning to communicate! No, I cannot summarise the
          difference between A and X. My approach is entirely pragmatic. In your
          place I would read several A and X titles to get a feel of the difference,
          classify the book in question according to your feel of where it fits, and
          try it there, ready to change the level if it does not work.

          No sophisticated formula, I am afraid.

          David
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
          To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:08 AM
          Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels


          > David
          >
          > Message received and understood. And I'm of the same opinion regarding
          > books that I consider simply childish. The absence of reward (motivation
          > to read) from reading unsuitable content more than cancels out the
          > apparent "value" of understandability while conforming to the sacred cow
          > of seeking "authentic" texts.
          >
          > However, I would never consider these texts for low level readers. my
          > whole point is that they are either level A or level X. They are of
          > interest to adult students who are interested in children's LITERATURE -
          > not literacy. many of these students may later get jobs teaching young
          > children, or have children of their own, or they may be interested in
          > one of the sources of western culture (apart, of coure, from the "cute"
          > or nostalia factors). How many babies have you come across that can
          > understand - or enjoy - Beatrix Potter?
          >
          > So my question is not "Have you graded these texts and if so, what level
          > are they?" but "Can you offer any simple guidelines for me to
          > distinguish between levels A and X?" I can do it for levels G to B,
          > because I'm used to teaching students at roughly those levels in terms
          > of grammatical and lexical level, and have a bit of a feel for other
          > factors like sentence length, conceptual difficulty, role of
          > illustrations, etc.. But I find I'm out of my depth at your highest two
          > levels because it's literally decades since I regularly taught students
          > at those levels (when I taught in Europe). I don't have an image in my
          > mind of what a class at that level would be like. I just deal with each
          > student individually and assess what problems the each have.
          >
          > CL
          >
          > EPER Enquiries wrote:
          > > Clive
          > >
          > > My prejudice against using such books as you list in a language learning
          > > programme means that I have never graded them or tried to put them into
          an
          > > er programme.
          > >
          > > A study of baby literature has its place and the "cute" factor will
          attract
          > > your girls to read (or look at) them. Maybe it will even lead some to
          > > serious language learning.
          > >
          > > I would rather try EPER starter cards and reading cards but you might
          like
          > > to look up www.usborne.com and see if their ELT programme is
          progressing.
          > > They publish over 1000 baby books and have begun to issue them with an
          ELT
          > > text. I have a flyer in front of me with 3 levels and several titles at
          > > each level. I think that they are aimed at aspiring middle class
          families
          > > who may use English at home and want to help their young children.
          > >
          > > The cute factor operates all over the far east, viz the popularity of
          > > hallmark cards. I wonder what the boys get. Presumably the sex and
          > > violence offered to them
          > > in the comic books. I do not like them any better!
          > >
          > > Not very helpful, I am afraid, but that is where I stand.
          > >
          > > Best wishes
          > >
          > > David
          > >
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
          > > To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
          > > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 AM
          > > Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>David
          > >>
          > >>We seem to have been writing at cross-purposes. I assumed you knew my
          > >>students are university students, so I didn't mention it, but the
          > >>mention of books for younger NS kids threw you off the scent.
          > >>
          > >>Many of our students come to as at EPER level G, and a few are even
          > >>lower - not yet ready for ER, therefore, in addition to the regular
          > >>publishers' graded readers, which appear on your levels chart, we also
          > >>provide books for develping literacy in young NS kids - particularly
          > >>ones in the Ladybird "Read It Yourself" (mostly level G), "Favourite
          > >>Tales" series, ( which I've put at Level E - linguistically higher than
          > >>that , but loads of v.g. illustrations), and the Ladybird Children's
          > >>Classics series (Level C or B?).
          > >>
          > >>This in turn has led to some of my (non-Japanese) teachers of English
          > >>bringing in more difficult children's literature for native speakers,
          > >>which their kids have deiscarded. Some of these are for quite young
          > >>kids, but in very sophisticated language - like the Beatrix Potter
          > >>"Peter Rabbit" stories, A.A. Milne's "Now We Are Six" poetry anthology
          > >>and Nick Butterworth's tales of Percy the park keeper. I've got an
          > >>anthology of stories called "More Bedtime Tales" published by Cavendish
          > >>House, London (no author's name) (UK upper primary level) and an "Archie
          > >>Andrews" comic book at about the same age level; some "Babysitters Club"
          > >>stories for teenagers; Roald Dahl's "The Twits" and "The Giraffe and the
          > >>Pelly & Me" and "The Midnight Fox" by Betsy Byars. These books are all
          > >>obviously unsuitable for our lower level students, being linguistically
          > >>too difficult, but a lot of our (female) students are very interested in
          > >>children's literature, and some of them would find these books fun to
          > >>read, even though challenging. I imagine you're familiar with quite a
          > >>few of these. I'd like to know where to fit them on your scale.
          > >>
          > >>Sorry to have been so inexplicit previously.
          > >>
          > >>Clive
          > >>
          > >>David R. Hill wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>Clive,
          > >>>
          > >>>I see what you are after. But what sort of books are you trying to
          > >>
          > > assign
          > >
          > >>>to levels A or X?
          > >>>
          > >>>In Malaysia we developed a three-stage level U for adudlt unsimplified
          > >>
          > > books
          > >
          > >>>to be tackled after Level X.
          > >>>
          > >>>For Hong Kong I classified children's literature at levels B-X
          according
          > >>
          > > to
          > >
          > >>>the length, complexity of the story and style of writing in a sort of
          > >>
          > > global
          > >
          > >>>hunch as to the overall readability compared to the standard graded
          > >>
          > > readers.
          > >
          > >>>But the acid test is how the students find them.
          > >>>
          > >>>Best wishes
          > >>>
          > >>>David
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>----- Original Message -----
          > >>>From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
          > >>>To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:46 AM
          > >>>Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>Dear David
          > >>>>
          > >>>>Thank you for your reply. Either I didn't express myself clearly or
          you
          > >>>>need to read my message more intensively! My request is for help in
          > >>>>grading books at the top two levels that aren't covered by your
          > >>>>publishers' series chart. Can you supply any criteria for deciding if
          a
          > >>>>book is level A or X or lower, or is it just something you've
          developed
          > >>>>a feel for, which would involve you writing a book to try to explain?
          If
          > >>>>the latter, I'll quite understand your reluctance to respond, but a
          > >>>>rough guide would be great.
          > >>>>
          > >>>>Clive
          > >>>>
          > >>>>David R. Hill wrote:
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>>Dear Clive
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>I found that Scholastic books written for the 9-12 age group of NS
          > >>>>
          > >>>worked
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>quite well for the Hong Kong junior secondary children from Level B
          up.
          > >>>>
          > >>>I
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>used them and the equivalent from UK publishers in preference to
          graded
          > >>>>>readers at Level A and X, and hoped that they would progress up
          through
          > >>>>>teenage fiction to adult fiction.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>At level B there are still some graded reders that are aimed at
          chldren
          > >>>>
          > >>>or
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>teenagers. Above that they are all much more adult and entirely
          > >>>>
          > >>>suitable
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>for Senior Secondary and Tertiary. The problem for them is how to
          > >>>>
          > >>>bridge
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>the undoubgted gap between level X and adult unsimplified (whichare
          > >>>>
          > >>>usually
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>very long and full of difficult allusions).
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>There is unfortunately no world-wide equivlanet of Macmillan's
          > >>>>
          > >>>Pacesetters
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>forAfrica which are unsimplified and about 150 pages. The nearest is
          > >>>>
          > >>>Mills
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>and Boon, which are not to be dismissed out of hand, expecially for
          > >>>>
          > >>>girls.
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>Most NNS teachers in Malaysia attributed their skill in English
          > >>>>
          > > entirely
          > >
          > >>>to
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>M&B!!
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>Otherwise it is a trial and error process using titles like
          > >>>>>Sherlock Holmes
          > >>>>>The Pearl
          > >>>>>39 Steps
          > >>>>>detective stories
          > >>>>>etc
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>Short stories get round the big problem of length but do not allow
          the
          > >>>>>learner to get stuck into a story that lasts a long time.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>Hope this clarifies things a bit.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>Best wishes.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>David
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>PS Am glad the Lord's Day Resistance Army was not around in Uganda in
          > >>>>
          > >>>our
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>>>day. They seem to be utterly evil.
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>---- Original Message -----
          > >>>>>From: "Clive Lovelock" <lovelock@...-gu.ac.jp>
          > >>>>>To: <ExtensiveReading@yahoogroups.com>
          > >>>>>Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:26 AM
          > >>>>>Subject: Re: [ExtensiveReading] EPER levels
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>>>Dear David
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>Tracy's query and your response reminded mean that I've been meaning
          > >>>>>
          > > to
          > >
          > >>>>>>ask you something for some time now, but only seemed to remember
          when
          > >>>>>
          > > I
          > >
          > >>>>>>was not seated at my computer, or when I was too busy with other
          > >>>>>>priorities. At last intention, attention and location have come into
          a
          > >>>>>>favourable alignment as they say in astrology.
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>I'd like to ask you if you can give me some guidance on how to
          > >>>>>>distinguish between level A and level X reading materials. I've
          > >>>>>
          > > acquired
          > >
          > >>>>>>various books from friends whose (English native speaking) children
          > >>>>>
          > > have
          > >
          > >>>>>>grown out of them. In other words, they're not graded readers, but
          are
          > >>>>>>in relatively easy English for NS kids of various ages from
          elementary
          > >>>>>>school to teenage. Any suggestions?
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>>Clive
          > >>>>>>
          > >>>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Brett Reynolds
          What levels have been given to Penguin s Moonfleet and Gandhi? Best, Brett ... Brett Reynolds English Language Centre Humber Institute of Technology and
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 10, 2006
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            What levels have been given to Penguin's Moonfleet and Gandhi?

            Best,
            Brett

            -----------------------
            Brett Reynolds
            English Language Centre
            Humber Institute of Technology and Advanced Learning
            Toronto, Ontario, Canada
            brett.reynolds@...
          • Julian Bamford
            ... They re both Penguin Level 2 (elementary), which EPER usually puts at Level D in their scheme. I don t know if David Hill has put one or both of those
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 13, 2006
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              Brett asked:
              > What levels have been given to Penguin's Moonfleet and Gandhi?

              They're both Penguin Level 2 (elementary), which EPER usually puts at
              Level "D" in their scheme. I don't know if David Hill has put one or
              both of those books up or down a level for any reason. I have them at
              D in my library and no student has complained yet. Why do you ask
              about those particular books?
              --Julian
            • Brett Reynolds
              Thanks, No big reason. We just got the books in but couldn t agree so wanted another opinion. Best, Brett ... Brett Reynolds English Language Centre Humber
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 13, 2006
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                Thanks,

                No big reason. We just got the books in but couldn't agree so wanted
                another opinion.

                Best,
                Brett

                On Feb 13, 2006, at 3:31 AM, Julian Bamford wrote:

                > Brett asked:
                > > What levels have been given to Penguin's Moonfleet and Gandhi?
                >
                > They're both Penguin Level 2 (elementary), which EPER usually puts at
                > Level "D" in their scheme. I don't know if David Hill has put one or
                > both of those books up or down a level for any reason. I have them at
                > D in my library and no student has complained yet. Why do you ask
                > about those particular books?
                > --Julian



                -----------------------
                Brett Reynolds
                English Language Centre
                Humber Institute of Technology and Advanced Learning
                Toronto, Ontario, Canada
                brett.reynolds@...
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