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RE: [Exex-gay] AUTO HYPNOSIS FOR SSA

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  • Anthony Venn-Brown
    Well said as usual Steve. Anthony Moderator http://www.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay There is the illusion that homosexuals
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 22, 2001
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      Well said as usual Steve.

       

      Anthony

      Moderator

      http://www.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

      "There is the illusion that homosexuals only have sex and heterosexuals fall in love..  Boy George"

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Steven Hopesharer [mailto:hope@...]
      Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 8:02 AM
      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] AUTO HYPNOSIS FOR SSA

       

      Hi All:

      I have tried to keep up with some posts, but I have been too busy to post anything anywhere for quite some time.

      In case I missed the point or failed to see the humor regarding the subject of this post, please accept my apology.

      The temptation to respond to this post was more than I can resist for several reasons. 

      ONE: 
      this group is an open forum where all are free to express themselves including their thoughts and feelings as long as they don't condemn another member.  To be requested not to respond to a post for any reason seems to be asking others to relinquish that freedom. 

      Thus, I am responding in opposition to being asked not to do so , regarding the subject, if I don't have personal experience with this technique and the additional request not to bother with sharing my feelings or thoughts about such a technique. 

      TWO:
       I am also responding because I KNOW there are some individuals seriously struggling with their sexual orientation to the point of considering suicide because of rejection by an uninformed and misguided society in general and the Church in particular.  In my opinion, postings of this nature and advertisements regarding the subject have the potential of negatively influencing a person to attempt such techniques out of desperation and to subsequently end their lives if the technique doesn't in fact work.  Hence, the need to be more sensitive and careful about what we post and how we word some of our posts.

      I consider the idea of attempting to change ones orientation, as if there is something that "can work for our case" to be a bit offensive, to say the least, because it implies there is something wrong with our case that needs to be changed in order for us to be normal or acceptable.   I don't see how anyone can "benefit" by changing and becoming something they were not created to be.  Quotes are from the post I am responding to and which I took issue with. 

      I think the advertisement of such a technique is a scam to sucker people into paying money to get "fixed."  I don't know of any evidence that such techniques has ever been even close to being successful other than as a scam to victimize hurting and naive individuals.  I think such a claim is grossly wrong, criminal and inhumane. 

      We GLBT individuals already have enough victimitis to last a life time and don't need any more false guilt trips laid on us.  Rather, we need to take the offense position and never allow ourselves to be tricked into being victims by being put on the defense.  We don't have to justify who we are to anyone except our Creator Who has already justified us and made us righteous in His eyes. Nor do we have to justify what we believe any more than any other of the religious folk, who call themselves Christian, do. 

      I have come to accept that who I am is a gift from my Creator and that it is just as normal as anyone else's sexual orientation in spite of what society and the uninformed, non-experience and closed minded religious people believe, teach, and preach by presenting their rhetoric in a bigoted and unloving manner in an effort to change others or else exclude those who don't agree with their erroneous biblical interpretations .

      I claim to be one who attempts to follow the teaching of Jesus, the Christ, and find no spiritual conflict within my life as a result of being a Christian who happens to be gay.  I think and believe His inclusive love and grace are more than adequate to free me from being in bondage to the legalisms inflicted upon others by all to many members of the Church.  Their practices seem to be in direct opposition to  His teachings regarding love, acceptance, forgiveness and how we are to relate to each other during this part of our spiritual journey.   I don't use this freedom as an excuse to do just anything I choose. On the contrary.  I try to do what I think is righteous, but experience great peace in knowing that in case I fail, which I do daily, I am forgiven, loved and accepted for who I am as I am unconditionally.  Because of that I can then praise and thank my Creator asking for nothing knowing all my needs are met as they arise.
       
      Meaningfully,
      Steve H.
       
      At 04:30 PM 7/20/01 +0000, you wrote:

      Hi group,

      I recently did a search over the internet with the
      words "homosexuality" and "auto hypnosis" and found a lot of material
      that seems interesting. I even downloaded a book where the author
      promises to produce a 180 degree change in your sexual orientation,
      he says that you have to change your meta programs in your mind
      (inner dialog), he sees this change is possible as leaving smoking,
      carbohydrates addiction or any other abnormality related to habits
      and behaviors (software). He says that he had experimented with gays
      and that he have seen radical changes in their sexual orientation. I
      haven't read the book yet, but the technique is more or less the
      typical hypnosis session. In this "auto" version you create your own
      script message you want to write into your mind.  You record a tape
      and play it at nights before going to bed.  You just relax, open your
      mind and accept the message which is introduced slowly in your mind
      at each session. The idea is to create a meta program at wich new
      programs can be introduced, impacting also your inner dialog, so new
      ideas and new perspectives show up based on the new accepted message.

      I just want to ask the group if someone have tried this technique and
      if you have benefited in some way, if this auto hypnosis can work for
      our case or if it is just another trial and error experiment.

      Please if you don't know, or you think that it is bad because it is
      not aligned with yours values and moral, please do not submit any
      comment, just keep it by yourself, if you personally have tested this
      or some one you know did it, please share with us the results.

      I just want to finish my book! LOL

      God bless you all

      Abraham




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    • Erny
      Over the past few days I have read and re-read this post. It has been all I could do not to respond and I decided that I won t be silenced by anyone for any
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 22, 2001
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        Over the past few days I have read and re-read this post. It has been
        all I could do not to respond and I decided that I won't be silenced by
        anyone for any purpose. When I have worked through hypnosis for other
        matters it simply did not work. There are key words, phrases and sentences
        in this post that bother me terribly. So...let's continue.

        > I even downloaded a book where the author
        > promises to produce a 180 degree change in your sexual orientation,
        > he says that you have to change your meta programs in your mind
        > (inner dialog)

        When the word "promises" pops up, I can not sit back and let that fly by me.
        I must trust an individual with, everything that I have, to accept any type
        of promise from him/her. I do not trust total strangers with "potions" that
        are not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. As anyone on this list
        knows...there are millions of self-help books on the market, all claiming
        for a cure to "produce a 180 degree change" on something. If you
        notice....most of these books are a fad and are dismissed within a few years
        after they have appeared. Why? Because they simply do not work.


        > he sees this change is possible as leaving smoking,
        > carbohydrates addiction or any other abnormality related to habits
        > and behaviors (software).


        Notice the phrase "change is 'possible'" and "habits and behaviors". Change
        of sexual orientation, I assure you, is not possible. For one it is not an
        "abnormality". Most of us on this list can attest to that, along with
        thousands, if not millions, of others for that matter. Sexual Orientation
        is NOT a series of "habits and behaviors". It is a part of our very fabric.
        The exact fabric that God created in us. No, no, NO! There is no habit or
        behavior to change when dealing with sexual orientation. What we chose to
        do with our sexual orientatioin (such as in lifestyle choices) is simply
        another matter, all together.


        > He says that he had experimented with gays
        > and that he have seen radical changes in their sexual orientation.

        Another word: "experimented". One does not "experiment" on me for any
        reason! I would not subject myself to it and am frightened for anyone who
        would allow it. I'm not some Lab Rat and would refuse to be part of an
        experimental process for this or any other reason. I would have to know the
        facts. And they would have to be justifiable facts that meet the criteria
        of scientific and "legitimate" psychological studies. And besides....what
        does "radical changes" insue? I don't see "complete change" mentioned here
        at all.


        > I
        > haven't read the book yet

        I sincerely wouldn't have waisted the disc space for it. There is simply
        nothing to fix.


        > but the technique is more or less the
        > typical hypnosis session. In this "auto" version you create your own
        > script message you want to write into your mind. You record a tape
        > and play it at nights before going to bed. You just relax, open your
        > mind and accept the message which is introduced slowly in your mind
        > at each session. The idea is to create a meta program at wich new
        > programs can be introduced, impacting also your inner dialog, so new
        > ideas and new perspectives show up based on the new accepted message.

        Simply another form of brainwashing, as I see it. And you know...in all
        humbleness, if I have to repeat a tape back and forth, night after night...I
        would certainly think more than once about this...because I would feel that
        I was tampering with God's creation of me. We are not talking a habit or
        behavior, here. Please remember that. We are talking about a fiber of our
        very soul.


        > I just want to ask the group if someone have tried this technique and
        > if you have benefited in some way, if this auto hypnosis can work for
        > our case or if it is just another trial and error experiment.

        I would suggest that this is another "trial and error" experiment. As you
        have stated above, that the Author of this program has "experimented" with
        Gays. He obviously has no proven facts. I simply am frightened that this
        would be a dead end conversion technique that would come back to haunt
        anyone who is trying his method. This results in low-self esteem, lack of
        self-assurance, major depressive episodes, and suicides...along with many
        other physical and psychological negative side effects. I have witnessed
        all of these scenarios personally and it is one of the saddest things that
        anyone can witness another go through. Let alone those who end up as their
        caretakers or pall bearers.


        > Please if you don't know, or you think that it is bad because it is
        > not aligned with yours values and moral, please do not submit any
        > comment, just keep it by yourself, if you personally have tested this
        > or some one you know did it, please share with us the results.

        The hypnosis idea is against my fiber and I will not be silenced on the
        matter. I have used it myself for other situations (stoping smoking,
        alcohol usage, etc.). What I have found is that it has not helped one bit
        "in the long run" - the "behavior and habits" still come back to haunt me.
        (remembering again that sexual orientation is not a behavior or habit) The
        other thing is...we end up depending on someone's voice (ours included) to
        do the work....instead of depending on the voice of God (as one perceives
        God to be). I assure you....I will listen to my inner voice...my God's
        voice...before I would ever listen to tapes running over and over in my head
        as an experimentation for someone elses selfish, unreliable, and
        yes...profitable reasons, at the expense of others lives.

        Also...I should interject that I am a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, the
        Messiah, and within the text of the Gospel accounts, Jesus said absolutely
        nothing about who I am, except to "accept" who I am.

        God Bless you too, Abraham,
        Erny
        "It's better to be hated for what you are, than to be loved for what you are
        not." - Andre' Gide
      • Anthony Venn-Brown
        Gooooooooooooooo Erny. God I love your passion and postings. The two questions I’d like to ask you Abraham coming from your post are…………do you want
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 23, 2001
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          Gooooooooooooooo Erny.  God  I love your passion and postings.

           

          The two questions I’d like to ask you Abraham coming from your post are…………do you want to change your sexual orientation?………and if the answer is yes.  WHY?

           

          Anthony

          Moderator

          http://www.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

          "There is the illusion that homosexuals only have sex and heterosexuals fall in love..  Boy George"

           

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Erny [mailto:erny6@...]
          Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:45 PM
          To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] AUTO HYPNOSIS FOR SSA

           

              Over the past few days I have read and re-read this post.  It has been
          all I could do not to respond and I decided that I won't be silenced by
          anyone for any purpose. When I have worked through hypnosis for other
          matters it simply did not work.  There are key words, phrases and sentences
          in this post that bother me terribly.  So...let's continue.

          > I even downloaded a book where the author
          > promises to produce a 180 degree change in your sexual orientation,
          > he says that you have to change your meta programs in your mind
          > (inner dialog)

          When the word "promises" pops up, I can not sit back and let that fly by me.
          I must trust an individual with, everything that I have, to accept any type
          of promise from him/her.  I do not trust total strangers with "potions" that
          are not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  As anyone on this list
          knows...there are millions of self-help books on the market, all claiming
          for a cure to "produce a 180 degree change" on something.  If you
          notice....most of these books are a fad and are dismissed within a few years
          after they have appeared.  Why?  Because they simply do not work.


          > he sees this change is possible as leaving smoking,
          > carbohydrates addiction or any other abnormality related to habits
          > and behaviors (software).


          Notice the phrase "change is 'possible'" and "habits and behaviors".  Change
          of sexual orientation, I assure you, is not possible.  For one it is not an
          "abnormality".  Most of us on this list can attest to that, along with
          thousands, if not millions, of others for that matter.  Sexual Orientation
          is NOT a series of "habits and behaviors".  It is a part of our very fabric.
          The exact fabric that God created in us.  No, no, NO!  There is no habit or
          behavior to change when dealing with sexual orientation.  What we chose to
          do with our sexual orientatioin (such as in lifestyle choices) is simply
          another matter, all together.


          > He says that he had experimented with gays
          > and that he have seen radical changes in their sexual orientation.

          Another word: "experimented".  One does not "experiment" on me for any
          reason!  I would not subject myself to it and am frightened for anyone who
          would allow it.  I'm not some Lab Rat and would refuse to be part of an
          experimental process for this or any other reason.  I would have to know the
          facts.  And they would have to be justifiable facts that meet the criteria
          of scientific and "legitimate" psychological studies.  And besides....what
          does "radical changes" insue?  I don't see "complete change" mentioned here
          at all.


          > I
          > haven't read the book yet

          I sincerely wouldn't have waisted the disc space for it.  There is simply
          nothing to fix.


          > but the technique is more or less the
          > typical hypnosis session. In this "auto" version you create
          your own
          > script message you want to write into your mind.  You record a
          tape
          > and play it at nights before going to bed.  You just relax, open
          your
          > mind and accept the message which is introduced slowly in your mind
          > at each session. The idea is to create a meta program at wich new
          > programs can be introduced, impacting also your inner dialog, so new
          > ideas and new perspectives show up based on the new accepted message.

          Simply another form of brainwashing, as I see it.  And you know...in all
          humbleness, if I have to repeat a tape back and forth, night after night...I
          would certainly think more than once about this...because I would feel that
          I was tampering with God's creation of me.  We are not talking a habit or
          behavior, here.  Please remember that.  We are talking about a fiber of our
          very soul.


          > I just want to ask the group if someone have tried this technique and
          > if you have benefited in some way, if this auto hypnosis can work for
          > our case or if it is just another trial and error experiment.

          I would suggest that this is another "trial and error" experiment.  As you
          have stated above, that the Author of this program has "experimented" with
          Gays.  He obviously has no proven facts.  I simply am frightened that this
          would be a dead end conversion technique that would come back to haunt
          anyone who is trying his method.  This results in low-self esteem, lack of
          self-assurance, major depressive episodes, and suicides...along with many
          other physical and psychological negative side effects.  I have witnessed
          all of these scenarios personally and it is one of the saddest things that
          anyone can witness another go through.  Let alone those who end up as their
          caretakers or pall bearers.


          > Please if you don't know, or you think that it is bad because it is
          > not aligned with yours values and moral, please do not submit any
          > comment, just keep it by yourself, if you personally have tested this
          > or some one you know did it, please share with us the results.

          The hypnosis idea is against my fiber and I will not be silenced on the
          matter.  I have used it myself for other situations (stoping smoking,
          alcohol usage, etc.).  What I have found is that it has not helped one bit
          "in the long run" - the "behavior and habits" still come back to haunt me.
          (remembering again that sexual orientation is not a behavior or habit)  The
          other thing is...we end up depending on someone's voice (ours included) to
          do the work....instead of depending on the voice of God (as one perceives
          God to be).  I assure you....I will listen to my inner voice...my God's
          voice...before I would ever listen to tapes running over and over in my head
          as an experimentation for someone elses selfish, unreliable, and
          yes...profitable reasons, at the expense of others lives.

          Also...I should interject that I am a follower of Jesus of Nazareth, the
          Messiah, and within the text of the Gospel accounts, Jesus said absolutely
          nothing about who I am, except to "accept" who I am.

          God Bless you too, Abraham,
          Erny
          "It's better to be hated for what you are, than to be loved for what you are
          not."   -  Andre' Gide



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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