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Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

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  • Pete Zayonce
    DOH! Sorry Anthony, I should read all my emails before I answer hehehe. 2009/11/21 Anthony Venn-Brown ... -- Pete Zayonce m:
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
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      DOH!  Sorry Anthony, I should read all my emails before I answer hehehe.

      2009/11/21 Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
       

      Hey Ninure……don’t you guys say AoG?

       

      Anthony

      Moderator

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

      My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

      Freedom 2 B(e)

      Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

       

      From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Ninure D. Saunders
      Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 9:19 AM


      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

       

       

      AOG=Assemblies of God.  At ;east that's what it means in the good ol' USA. 

      Pax Christi,
      Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
      My Blog
      http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
      Be my Friend on MySpace:
      http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
      ===========================
      "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

      People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
      — Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

      Live simply. Love generously.
      Care deeply. Speak kindly.
      Leave the rest to God.

      --- On Fri, 11/20/09, bptimlin@... <bptimlin@...> wrote:


      From: bptimlin@... <bptimlin@...>
      Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 12:12 PM

       

      Pardon my stupidity - what is AOG?

       

      No virus found in this incoming message.


      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/20/09 19:43:00




      --
      Pete Zayonce
      m: 0410248621
      e: pete.zayonce@...

      "I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
      – Lily Tomlin
    • Anthony Venn-Brown
      No worries Pete....I should have said that the AOG no longer exists as a name in Aussie any more....its been changed as you mentioned to ACC. Anthony Moderator
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
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        No worries Pete……..I should have said that the AOG no longer exists as a name in Aussie any more……..its been changed as you mentioned to ACC.

         

        Anthony

        Moderator

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

        Freedom 2 B(e)

        Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

         

        From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Zayonce
        Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 2:47 PM
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

         

         

        DOH!  Sorry Anthony, I should read all my emails before I answer hehehe.

        2009/11/21 Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>

         

        Hey Ninure……don’t you guys say AoG?

         

        Anthony

        Moderator

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

        Freedom 2 B(e)

        Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

         

        From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Ninure D. Saunders
        Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 9:19 AM


        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

         

         

        AOG=Assemblies of God.  At ;east that's what it means in the good ol' USA. 

        Pax Christi,
        Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
        My Blog
        http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
        Be my Friend on MySpace:
        http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
        ===========================
        "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

        People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
        — Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

        Live simply. Love generously.
        Care deeply. Speak kindly.
        Leave the rest to God.

        --- On Fri, 11/20/09, bptimlin@... <bptimlin@...> wrote:


        From: bptimlin@... <bptimlin@...>
        Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 12:12 PM

         

        Pardon my stupidity - what is AOG?

         

        No virus found in this incoming message.


        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

        Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/20/09 19:43:00




        --
        Pete Zayonce
        m: 0410248621
        e: pete.zayonce@...

        "I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
        – Lily Tomlin

        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/20/09 19:43:00

      • Anthony Venn-Brown
        Hey Rick...do you know about our Freedom 2 b[e] forum. Anthony Venn-Brown Co-founder and Convenor of freedom 2 b[e] Networking GLBTI People from Pentecostal,
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 20, 2009
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          Hey Rick…….do you know about our Freedom 2 b[e]  forum.

           

          Anthony Venn-Brown

          Co-founder and Convenor of freedom 2 b[e]

          Networking GLBTI People from Pentecostal, Charismatic and Evangelical Backgrounds

          Connection - Support - Information - Dialogue

          We have a website: www.freedom2b.org ...and an online community

          You can email us at: info@...

          PO Box 901 | Surry Hills NSW | 2010 | Australia

          Patrons

          The Hon Michael Kirby AC CMG

          The Rev. Dorothy McRae McMahon

          (Awarded the Australian Government Peace Award and the Human Rights Medal)

           

          From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Horner
          Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 6:58 AM
          To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

           

           

          Rick, what a wonderful, wonderful story. Thank you for sharing that...

          Ian,
          Sydney

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09 19:42:00

        • Rev. Ninure D. Saunders
          Now that you mention it, yeah.  Pax Christi, Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian My Blog http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian Be my Friend on MySpace:
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
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            Now that you mention it, yeah. 

            Pax Christi,
            Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
            My Blog
            http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
            Be my Friend on MySpace:
            http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
            ===========================
            "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

            People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
            — Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

            Live simply. Love generously.
            Care deeply. Speak kindly.
            Leave the rest to God.

            --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

            From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
            Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
            To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 8:53 PM

             

            Hey Ninure……don’t you guys say AoG?

             

            Anthony

            Moderator

            http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay

            My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

            Freedom 2 B(e)

            Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/ Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org



          • bptimlin@aol.com
            Thank you :) In a message dated 11/20/2009 3:31:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, anthony@anthonyvennbrown.com writes: Sorry……acronyms are poor
            Message 5 of 24 , Nov 21, 2009
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              Thank you :)
               
              In a message dated 11/20/2009 3:31:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, anthony@... writes:
               

              Sorry……acronyms are poor communication.

              AOG……Assemblies of God.

              Anthony Venn-Brown

              An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

              Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

              Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

              Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

              "The enemy is ignorance"

              "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

              'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

              Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

              Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

              Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

              Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

              My YouTube Channel is here

              From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of bptimlin@aol. com
              Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 5:12 AM
              To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
              Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

               

              Pardon my stupidity - what is AOG?

              In a message dated 11/19/2009 11:23:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, anthony@anthonyvenn brown.com writes:

               

              Hey Rick…..how great to have you post and particularly to hear your encouraging story.

              It is happening more and more often these days…….I wonder if you’ve read the latest post on my blog……..I’m not sure if you are AOG in Aussie or another country.

              Here is the post……..FYI.

              Why Australian Pentecostals Will Embrace GLBT People

              Anthony

              Moderator

              http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay

              My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

              Freedom 2 B(e)

              Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/ Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org

              From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Rick
              Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 11:24 AM
              To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
              Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?

               

              Hi all,

              It's been a very long time since I've posted here. I do read the posts periodically and enjoy Anthony's insightful responses.

              Just wanted to relay an interesting story. My partner and I attend an AOG church and even though the denomination itself still condemns homosexuality, the pastor and I have had some good talks and have agreed to disagree on a few subjects. With this in mind, we attend with an attitude that I've learned from Anthony which is: we're there as ambassador's not activists.

              Anyhow, I help to direct the choir and assist with some of the duties that come with production work in a large church. I really have a lot of respect for my pastor because he has gone to bat for my partner and me when it comes to "well intentioned" churchgoers who express concern over my being in a "leadership" role.

              That being said, something interesting happened a few Sundays ago. After services, I was going about my duties, getting things shut down when I noticed a young woman that approached our Praise & Worship leader's wife. They walked toward the music office and I followed soon afterword to finish up a few things.

              As I walked in, this woman was chatting with the P&W leader and his wife about joining the choir. They turned and introduced me to her and explained that I helped lead the choir. We talked briefly about what part she sang, her church background, etc.

              She hadn't been to church in many years, her husband was not a religious man and she hadn't raised her children in any sort of church setting. They had just moved into the area and drove by our church often. Apparently she had come to a place in her life where she felt she needed to reconnect with God, so that particular Sunday she told her husband and kids that she was going to church.

              She told me that her home growing up was very musical and that her mother is a concert pianist and she sang with her two sisters, singing whichever part the other two didn't sing so she was fairly comfortable singing whatever was needed.

              After about 10 minutes of conversation, she grew suddenly very serious and said "There is, however, an issue I want to discuss" Reluctantly she offered "I have a 16 year old son who is gay, and I want to know if he'll be accepted here".

              Not wanting to out me immediately, the P&W leader stumbled a little and said "Well… we do have… a few… gay folks here that help out…"

              I took a leap of faith and said "and I happen to be one of them." Tears welled up in her eyes as she said "Oh, thank God…"

              We talked about her son and how he had come out to her and his step-father last October. She talked about how her husband had come to change his mind about gays over the past year and wanted so much for their son to be able to grow up and fall in love yet still have all the same rights afforded to them. I was very touched by how supportive she was of her son.

              We parted and I was left almost speechless at this almost divine appointment that had just happened. In a church of more than 1500 people she had found the three that were the most sympathetic to her situation.

              I wasn't sure if I'd see her again, but sure enough this last Sunday, there she was in the congregation. She came up to me afterword and we chatted again. She said that she had almost gotten her son to come with her that day.

              Now, I'm finding the irony almost overwhelming. Here in a mainstream Christian church where a new face might run screaming from the building on finding out that there was an openly gay man being accepted. BUT... she came back to our church BECAUSE I'm gay.

              I know, I know… she was ultimately seeking a renewed relationship with God… however, had she disclosed her information and been rejected, she may not have bothered coming back to our church or any church.

              I'm still a little awestruck.

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09 19:42:00

              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/20/09 19:43:00

            • Korry Korry
              Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his ex-gay friend who
              Message 6 of 24 , Nov 24, 2009
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                Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                not even be around anymore.

                Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                happen to know.

                Frustrating.


              • Rick
                AOG = Assembly Of God Anthony: Great article. However, I m in the US and I m afraid that Pentecostals here might be a year or two behind you in that respect.
                Message 7 of 24 , Nov 24, 2009
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                  AOG = Assembly Of God


                  Anthony: Great article. However, I'm in the US and I'm afraid that Pentecostals here might be a year or two behind you in that respect.

                  --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, bptimlin@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Pardon my stupidity - what is AOG?
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 11/19/2009 11:23:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                  > anthony@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hey Rick…..how great to have you post and particularly to hear your
                  > encouraging story.
                  > It is happening more and more often these days…….I wonder if you’ve read
                  > the latest post on my blog……..I’m not sure if you are AOG in Aussie or
                  > another country.
                  > Here is the post……..FYI.
                  > _Why Australian Pentecostals Will Embrace GLBT People_
                  > (http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-australian-pentecostals-will_11.html)
                  >
                  > Anthony
                  > Moderator
                  > _http://groups.http://grohttp://grouhtt_
                  > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay)
                  > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                  > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
                  > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                  > _Freedom 2 B(e)_ (http://www.freedom2b.org/)
                  > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
                  > Pentecostal/Support - Information - Dialog_www.freedom2b.www_
                  > (mip://0444b5a8/www.freedom2b.org)
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup Exex-gay@yahoo Exex-gay@ya ExexOn Behalf Of
                  > Rick
                  > Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 11:24 AM
                  > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup Exex
                  > Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > It's been a very long time since I've posted here. I do read the posts
                  > periodically and enjoy Anthony's insightful responses.
                  >
                  > Just wanted to relay an interesting story. My partner and I attend an AOG
                  > church and even though the denomination itself still condemns
                  > homosexuality, the pastor and I have had some good talks and have agreed to disagree on
                  > a few subjects. With this in mind, we attend with an attitude that I've
                  > learned from Anthony which is: we're there as ambassador's not activists.
                  >
                  > Anyhow, I help to direct the choir and assist with some of the duties that
                  > come with production work in a large church. I really have a lot of
                  > respect for my pastor because he has gone to bat for my partner and me when it
                  > comes to "well intentioned" churchgoers who express concern over my being in
                  > a "leadership" role.
                  >
                  > That being said, something interesting happened a few Sundays ago. After
                  > services, I was going about my duties, getting things shut down when I
                  > noticed a young woman that approached our Praise & Worship leader's wife. They
                  > walked toward the music office and I followed soon afterword to finish up a
                  > few things.
                  >
                  > As I walked in, this woman was chatting with the P&W leader and his wife
                  > about joining the choir. They turned and introduced me to her and explained
                  > that I helped lead the choir. We talked briefly about what part she sang,
                  > her church background, etc.
                  >
                  > She hadn't been to church in many years, her husband was not a religious
                  > man and she hadn't raised her children in any sort of church setting. They
                  > had just moved into the area and drove by our church often. Apparently she
                  > had come to a place in her life where she felt she needed to reconnect with
                  > God, so that particular Sunday she told her husband and kids that she was
                  > going to church.
                  >
                  > She told me that her home growing up was very musical and that her mother
                  > is a concert pianist and she sang with her two sisters, singing whichever
                  > part the other two didn't sing so she was fairly comfortable singing
                  > whatever was needed.
                  >
                  > After about 10 minutes of conversation, she grew suddenly very serious and
                  > said "There is, however, an issue I want to discuss" Reluctantly she offer
                  > ed "I have a 16 year old son who is gay, and I want to know if he'll be
                  > accepted here".
                  >
                  > Not wanting to out me immediately, the P&W leader stumbled a little and
                  > said "Well… we do have… a few… gay folks here that help out…"
                  >
                  > I took a leap of faith and said "and I happen to be one of them." Tears
                  > welled up in her eyes as she said "Oh, thank God…"
                  >
                  > We talked about her son and how he had come out to her and his step-father
                  > last October. She talked about how her husband had come to change his mind
                  > about gays over the past year and wanted so much for their son to be able
                  > to grow up and fall in love yet still have all the same rights afforded to
                  > them. I was very touched by how supportive she was of her son.
                  >
                  > We parted and I was left almost speechless at this almost divine
                  > appointment that had just happened. In a church of more than 1500 people she had
                  > found the three that were the most sympathetic to her situation.
                  >
                  > I wasn't sure if I'd see her again, but sure enough this last Sunday,
                  > there she was in the congregation. She came up to me afterword and we chatted
                  > again. She said that she had almost gotten her son to come with her that day.
                  >
                  > Now, I'm finding the irony almost overwhelming. Here in a mainstream
                  > Christian church where a new face might run screaming from the building on
                  > finding out that there was an openly gay man being accepted. BUT... she came
                  > back to our church BECAUSE I'm gay.
                  >
                  > I know, I know… she was ultimately seeking a renewed relationship with God…
                  > however, had she disclosed her information and been rejected, she may not
                  > have bothered coming back to our church or any church.
                  >
                  > I'm still a little awestruck.
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09
                  > 19:42:00
                  >
                • Rick
                  Yes Anthony, I m a member there also. A quick update to my story. The young woman returned again this past Sunday. This time her son came with her, as well
                  Message 8 of 24 , Nov 24, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yes Anthony, I'm a member there also.

                    A quick update to my story. The young woman returned again this past Sunday. This time her son came with her, as well as her daughter and sister. Her son is a pleasant young man, not what I was expecting at all. For some reason I expected him to be a somewhat sullen. However, he's very friendly and a bit shy.

                    Anyhow, hoping good things come from their participation.




                    --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Rick...do you know about our Freedom 2 b[e] forum.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Anthony Venn-Brown
                    >
                    > Co-founder and Convenor of freedom 2 b[e]
                    >
                    > Networking GLBTI People from Pentecostal, Charismatic and Evangelical
                    > Backgrounds
                    >
                    > Connection - Support - Information - Dialogue
                    >
                    > We have a website: <http://www.freedom2b.org/> www.freedom2b.org ...and an
                    > <http://www.freedom2b.org/phpBB2/> online community
                    >
                    > You can email us at: <mailto:info@...> info@...
                    >
                    > PO Box 901 | Surry Hills NSW | 2010 | Australia
                    >
                    > Patrons
                    >
                    > The Hon Michael Kirby AC CMG
                    >
                    > The Rev. Dorothy McRae McMahon
                    >
                    > (Awarded the Australian Government Peace Award and the Human Rights Medal)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    > Of Ian Horner
                    > Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 6:58 AM
                    > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Rick, what a wonderful, wonderful story. Thank you for sharing that...
                    >
                    > Ian,
                    > Sydney
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09
                    > 19:42:00
                    >
                  • Anthony Venn-Brown
                    Yep.....its a uniquely Aussie thing......I’ve had quite a bit to do with US culture over the years.....and currently here actually. You guys in the US have
                    Message 9 of 24 , Nov 24, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment

                      Yep.....its a uniquely Aussie thing......I’ve had quite a bit to do with US culture over the years.....and currently here actually.

                       

                      You guys in the US have quite a few hurdles to get over.....but.....there are still some good things happening behind the scenes......believe me.

                       

                      Anthony Venn-Brown

                      Professional Coach, Speaker and Author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                      Convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                      Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                      Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 

                      Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

                      anthony@...

                       

                      From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick
                      Sent: Wednesday, 25 November 2009 8:40 AM
                      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: A chance encounter?

                       

                       

                      AOG = Assembly Of God

                      Anthony: Great article. However, I'm in the US and I'm afraid that Pentecostals here might be a year or two behind you in that respect.

                      --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, bptimlin@... wrote:

                      >
                      > Pardon my stupidity - what is AOG?
                      >
                      >
                      > In a message dated 11/19/2009 11:23:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,
                      > anthony@... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey Rick…..how great to have you post and particularly to hear your
                      > encouraging story.
                      > It is happening more and more often these days…….I wonder if you’ve
                      read
                      > the latest post on my blog……..I’m not sure if you are AOG in Aussie
                      or
                      > another country.
                      > Here is the post……..FYI.
                      > _Why Australian Pentecostals Will Embrace GLBT People_
                      > (
                      href="http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-australian-pentecostals-will_11.html">http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-australian-pentecostals-will_11.html)
                      >
                      > Anthony
                      > Moderator
                      > _http://groups.http://grohttp://grouhtt_
                      > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay)
                      > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                      > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
                      > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                      > _Freedom 2 B(e)_ (http://www.freedom2b.org/)
                      > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
                      > Pentecostal/Support - Information - Dialog_www.freedom2b.www_
                      > (mip://0444b5a8/www.freedom2b.org)
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup Exex-gay@yahoo Exex-gay@ya ExexOn Behalf Of
                      > Rick
                      > Sent: Thursday, 19 November 2009 11:24 AM
                      > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup Exex
                      > Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > It's been a very long time since I've posted here. I do read the posts
                      > periodically and enjoy Anthony's insightful responses.
                      >
                      > Just wanted to relay an interesting story. My partner and I attend an AOG
                      > church and even though the denomination itself still condemns
                      > homosexuality, the pastor and I have had some good talks and have agreed
                      to disagree on
                      > a few subjects. With this in mind, we attend with an attitude that I've
                      > learned from Anthony which is: we're there as ambassador's not activists.
                      >
                      > Anyhow, I help to direct the choir and assist with some of the duties that
                      > come with production work in a large church. I really have a lot of
                      > respect for my pastor because he has gone to bat for my partner and me
                      when it
                      > comes to "well intentioned" churchgoers who express concern over
                      my being in
                      > a "leadership" role.
                      >
                      > That being said, something interesting happened a few Sundays ago. After
                      > services, I was going about my duties, getting things shut down when I
                      > noticed a young woman that approached our Praise & Worship leader's
                      wife. They
                      > walked toward the music office and I followed soon afterword to finish up
                      a
                      > few things.
                      >
                      > As I walked in, this woman was chatting with the P&W leader and his
                      wife
                      > about joining the choir. They turned and introduced me to her and
                      explained
                      > that I helped lead the choir. We talked briefly about what part she sang,
                      > her church background, etc.
                      >
                      > She hadn't been to church in many years, her husband was not a religious
                      > man and she hadn't raised her children in any sort of church setting. They
                      > had just moved into the area and drove by our church often. Apparently she
                      > had come to a place in her life where she felt she needed to reconnect
                      with
                      > God, so that particular Sunday she told her husband and kids that she was
                      > going to church.
                      >
                      > She told me that her home growing up was very musical and that her mother
                      > is a concert pianist and she sang with her two sisters, singing whichever
                      > part the other two didn't sing so she was fairly comfortable singing
                      > whatever was needed.
                      >
                      > After about 10 minutes of conversation, she grew suddenly very serious and
                      > said "There is, however, an issue I want to discuss" Reluctantly
                      she offer
                      > ed "I have a 16 year old son who is gay, and I want to know if he'll
                      be
                      > accepted here".
                      >
                      > Not wanting to out me immediately, the P&W leader stumbled a little
                      and
                      > said "Well… we do have… a few… gay folks here that help
                      out…"
                      >
                      > I took a leap of faith and said "and I happen to be one of
                      them." Tears
                      > welled up in her eyes as she said "Oh, thank God…"
                      >
                      > We talked about her son and how he had come out to her and his step-father
                      > last October. She talked about how her husband had come to change his mind
                      > about gays over the past year and wanted so much for their son to be able
                      > to grow up and fall in love yet still have all the same rights afforded to
                      > them. I was very touched by how supportive she was of her son.
                      >
                      > We parted and I was left almost speechless at this almost divine
                      > appointment that had just happened. In a church of more than 1500 people
                      she had
                      > found the three that were the most sympathetic to her situation.
                      >
                      > I wasn't sure if I'd see her again, but sure enough this last Sunday,
                      > there she was in the congregation. She came up to me afterword and we
                      chatted
                      > again. She said that she had almost gotten her son to come with her that
                      day.
                      >
                      > Now, I'm finding the irony almost overwhelming. Here in a mainstream
                      > Christian church where a new face might run screaming from the building on
                      > finding out that there was an openly gay man being accepted. BUT... she
                      came
                      > back to our church BECAUSE I'm gay.
                      >
                      > I know, I know… she was ultimately seeking a renewed relationship with
                      God…
                      > however, had she disclosed her information and been rejected, she may not
                      > have bothered coming back to our church or any church.
                      >
                      > I'm still a little awestruck.
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                      > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09
                      > 19:42:00
                      >

                    • Anthony Venn-Brown
                      Certainly is a dilemma Korry. On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Nov 25, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

                         

                        On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

                         

                        Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

                         

                        If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

                         

                        I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted  to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

                         

                        I wonder what others feel.

                         

                        Anthony Venn-Brown

                        An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                        Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                        Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                        Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                        "The enemy is ignorance"

                        "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                        'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                        Blog: http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/

                        Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador

                        Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                        Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/gayambassador

                        My YouTube Channel is here

                         

                        From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                        Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
                        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                         

                         

                        Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                        public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                        purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                        fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                        The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                        guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                        fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                        This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                        the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                        worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                        spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                        angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                        But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                        healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                        it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                        and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                        in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                        The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                        before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                        conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                        The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                        helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                        seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                        contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                        later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                        told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                        led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                        not even be around anymore.

                        Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                        relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                        bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                        meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                        public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                        accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                        extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                        in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                        happen to know.

                        Frustrating.

                         

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

                      • Anthony Venn-Brown
                        That s great news Rick...things are changing. Anthony Moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay My sexual
                        Message 11 of 24 , Nov 25, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment

                          That’s great news Rick…….things are changing.

                           

                          Anthony

                          Moderator

                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

                          My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

                          Freedom 2 B(e)

                          Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

                           

                          From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick
                          Sent: Wednesday, 25 November 2009 9:06 AM
                          To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: A chance encounter?

                           

                           

                          Yes Anthony, I'm a member there also.

                          A quick update to my story. The young woman returned again this past Sunday. This time her son came with her, as well as her daughter and sister. Her son is a pleasant young man, not what I was expecting at all. For some reason I expected him to be a somewhat sullen. However, he's very friendly and a bit shy.

                          Anyhow, hoping good things come from their participation.

                          --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > Hey Rick...do you know about our Freedom 2 b[e] forum.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Anthony Venn-Brown
                          >
                          > Co-founder and Convenor of freedom 2 b[e]
                          >
                          > Networking GLBTI People from Pentecostal, Charismatic and Evangelical
                          > Backgrounds
                          >
                          > Connection - Support - Information - Dialogue
                          >
                          > We have a website: <http://www.freedom2b.org/>
                          www.freedom2b.org ...and an
                          > <http://www.freedom2b.org/phpBB2/>
                          online community
                          >
                          > You can email us at: <mailto:info@...> info@...
                          >
                          > PO Box 901 | Surry Hills NSW | 2010 | Australia
                          >
                          > Patrons
                          >
                          > The Hon Michael Kirby AC CMG
                          >
                          > The Rev. Dorothy McRae McMahon
                          >
                          > (Awarded the Australian Government Peace Award and the Human Rights Medal)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          > Of Ian Horner
                          > Sent: Friday, 20 November 2009 6:58 AM
                          > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Exex-gay] A chance encounter?
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Rick, what a wonderful, wonderful story. Thank you for sharing that...
                          >
                          > Ian,
                          > Sydney
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > No virus found in this incoming message.
                          > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.71/2510 - Release Date: 11/19/09
                          > 19:42:00
                          >

                          No virus found in this incoming message.
                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

                        • Korry Korry
                          I don t know even know if he is alive anymore. It is hard to look for him online because he has one of those ultra-commonplace anglo-names (i.e.; John Smith )
                          Message 12 of 24 , Nov 26, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I don't know even know if he is alive anymore. It is hard to look for him online because he has one of those ultra-commonplace anglo-names (i.e.; "John Smith") shared by millions of men in this world. But I do wonder if he is even alive anymore, if only because when we were last in touch, in 1992, his life seemed to completely falling apart; he was out of money, he left his job, he was homeless, and he complained that his friends had abandoned him --  yet while he might have convinced himself he was a victim of bad fortune, to me it seemed he was creating these circumstances almost to validate whatever internal self-loathing he carried with him and never surmounted. There was definitely something going on with a guy who during the day, as I witnessed, would give contemptuously anti-gay, self-righteously pro ex-gay interviews with the press, but then make-out with a guy (in this case, me) at night. I must say that this reflected my own internal divisions at the time, but looking back, it really does seem sick.

                            One of the things that has changed my outlook is the emergence of openly gay men who are such outstanding examples of citizenry; I think of the region where I used to live in America, Washington State, which has five openly gay legislators, who not only have outstanding, impressive academic and public service credentials, but in some cases, are raising children with their same-sex partners.  So these are men dedicated to serving their communities, both gay and straight, and are also committed same-sex spouses and responsible fathers, reaping all the rewards of raising good, loving, successful children. 

                            So much for the big fat lie that being gay meant you'd live life as a social pariah, full of empty, sleazy sex, with no lasting relationships, and never knowing what it is to be a dad. Not that every gay man desires to be a father, but we now know that one does not have to go the ex-gay route in order to achieve both that and a committed, loving relationship.

                            --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

                            From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
                            Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
                            To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

                             

                            Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

                             

                            On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

                             

                            Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

                             

                            If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

                             

                            I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted  to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

                             

                            I wonder what others feel.

                             

                            Anthony Venn-Brown

                            An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                            Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                            Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                            Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                            "The enemy is ignorance"

                            "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                            'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                            Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

                            Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

                            Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                            Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

                            My YouTube Channel is here

                             

                            From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                            Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
                            To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
                            Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                             

                             

                            Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                            public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                            purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                            fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                            The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                            guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                            fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                            This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                            the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                            worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                            spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                            angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                            But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                            healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                            it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                            and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                            in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                            The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                            before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                            conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                            The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                            helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                            seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                            contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                            later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                            told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                            led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                            not even be around anymore.

                            Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                            relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                            bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                            meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                            public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                            accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                            extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                            in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                            happen to know.

                            Frustrating.

                             

                            No virus found in this incoming message.
                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00


                          • Korry Korry
                            After much Google searching, I found that this individual -- this martyr-hero among conservative evangelicals and politicians for his showing the way to be
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 5, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              After much Google searching, I found that this individual -- this martyr-hero among conservative evangelicals and politicians for his showing the way to be "ex-gay" -- still has his ministry going, if only as a post office box address. I wrote to him over a week ago, asking him to e-mail me back. I still have not gotten a reply. More and more I am thinking of simply going forward and making a statement to the media.

                              --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

                              From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
                              Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
                              To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

                               

                              Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

                               

                              On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

                               

                              Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

                               

                              If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

                               

                              I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted  to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

                               

                              I wonder what others feel.

                               

                              Anthony Venn-Brown

                              An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                              Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                              Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                              Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                              "The enemy is ignorance"

                              "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                              'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                              Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

                              Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

                              Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                              Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

                              My YouTube Channel is here

                               

                              From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                              Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
                              To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
                              Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                               

                               

                              Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                              public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                              purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                              fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                              The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                              guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                              fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                              This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                              the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                              worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                              spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                              angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                              But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                              healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                              it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                              and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                              in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                              The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                              before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                              conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                              The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                              helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                              seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                              contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                              later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                              told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                              led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                              not even be around anymore.

                              Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                              relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                              bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                              meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                              public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                              accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                              extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                              in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                              happen to know.

                              Frustrating.

                               

                              No virus found in this incoming message.
                              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00


                            • Anthony Venn-Brown
                              If you do Korry…..and you need help with connections…..I know all the guys in the US who will handle this for you. Anthony Venn-Brown An Ambassador for the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 6, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment

                                If you do Korry…..and you need help with connections…..I know all the guys in the US who will handle this for you.

                                 

                                Anthony Venn-Brown

                                An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                                Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                                Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                                Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                                "The enemy is ignorance"

                                "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                                'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                                Blog: http://alifeofunlearning.blogspot.com/

                                Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador

                                Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                                Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/gayambassador

                                My YouTube Channel is here

                                 

                                From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                                Sent: Sunday, 6 December 2009 3:35 AM
                                To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                                 

                                 

                                After much Google searching, I found that this individual -- this martyr-hero among conservative evangelicals and politicians for his showing the way to be "ex-gay" -- still has his ministry going, if only as a post office box address. I wrote to him over a week ago, asking him to e-mail me back. I still have not gotten a reply. More and more I am thinking of simply going forward and making a statement to the media.

                                --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:


                                From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
                                Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
                                To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

                                 

                                Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

                                 

                                On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

                                 

                                Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

                                 

                                If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

                                 

                                I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted  to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

                                 

                                I wonder what others feel.

                                 

                                Anthony Venn-Brown

                                An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                                Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                                Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                                Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                                "The enemy is ignorance"

                                "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                                'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                                Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

                                Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

                                Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                                Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

                                My YouTube Channel is here

                                 

                                From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                                Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
                                To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
                                Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                                 

                                 

                                Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                                public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                                purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                                fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                                The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                                guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                                fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                                This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                                the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                                worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                                spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                                angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                                But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                                healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                                it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                                and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                                in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                                The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                                before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                                conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                                The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                                helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                                seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                                contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                                later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                                told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                                led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                                not even be around anymore.

                                Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                                relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                                bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                                meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                                public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                                accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                                extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                                in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                                happen to know.

                                Frustrating.

                                 

                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

                                 

                                No virus found in this incoming message.
                                Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/06/09 19:37:00

                              • Anthony Venn-Brown
                                Hey Korry…..how is this progressing for you. Anthony Venn-Brown Professional Coach, Speaker and Author of
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 26, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment

                                  Hey Korry…..how is this progressing for you.

                                   

                                  Anthony Venn-Brown

                                  Professional Coach, Speaker and Author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                                  Convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                                  Honoured to be on the 2007 & 2009 list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                                  Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 

                                  Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

                                  anthony@...

                                  Wishing you the most wonderful Christmas with family and friends.

                                  May 2010 be successful, exciting and fulfilling.

                                  christmas-new-year-holidays2message

                                   

                                  From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                                  Sent: Friday, 27 November 2009 1:17 AM
                                  To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                                   

                                   

                                  I don't know even know if he is alive anymore. It is hard to look for him online because he has one of those ultra-commonplace anglo-names (i.e.; "John Smith") shared by millions of men in this world. But I do wonder if he is even alive anymore, if only because when we were last in touch, in 1992, his life seemed to completely falling apart; he was out of money, he left his job, he was homeless, and he complained that his friends had abandoned him --  yet while he might have convinced himself he was a victim of bad fortune, to me it seemed he was creating these circumstances almost to validate whatever internal self-loathing he carried with him and never surmounted. There was definitely something going on with a guy who during the day, as I witnessed, would give contemptuously anti-gay, self-righteously pro ex-gay interviews with the press, but then make-out with a guy (in this case, me) at night. I must say that this reflected my own internal divisions at the time, but looking back, it really does seem sick.

                                   

                                  One of the things that has changed my outlook is the emergence of openly gay men who are such outstanding examples of citizenry; I think of the region where I used to live in America, Washington State, which has five openly gay legislators, who not only have outstanding, impressive academic and public service credentials, but in some cases, are raising children with their same-sex partners.  So these are men dedicated to serving their communities, both gay and straight, and are also committed same-sex spouses and responsible fathers, reaping all the rewards of raising good, loving, successful children. 

                                   

                                  So much for the big fat lie that being gay meant you'd live life as a social pariah, full of empty, sleazy sex, with no lasting relationships, and never knowing what it is to be a dad. Not that every gay man desires to be a father, but we now know that one does not have to go the ex-gay route in order to achieve both that and a committed, loving relationship.

                                  --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:


                                  From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
                                  Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
                                  To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

                                   

                                  Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

                                   

                                  On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

                                   

                                  Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

                                   

                                  If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

                                   

                                  I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted  to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

                                   

                                  I wonder what others feel.

                                   

                                  Anthony Venn-Brown

                                  An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

                                  Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

                                  Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

                                  Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

                                  "The enemy is ignorance"

                                  "My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

                                  'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

                                  Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

                                  Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

                                  Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

                                  Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

                                  My YouTube Channel is here

                                   

                                  From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
                                  Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
                                  To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
                                  Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

                                   

                                   

                                  Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
                                  public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
                                  purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
                                  fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

                                  The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
                                  guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
                                  fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

                                  This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
                                  the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
                                  worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
                                  spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
                                  angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
                                  But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
                                  healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
                                  it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
                                  and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
                                  in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

                                  The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
                                  before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
                                  conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

                                  The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
                                  helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
                                  seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
                                  contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
                                  later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
                                  told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
                                  led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
                                  not even be around anymore.

                                  Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
                                  relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
                                  bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
                                  meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
                                  public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
                                  accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
                                  extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
                                  in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
                                  happen to know.

                                  Frustrating.

                                   

                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

                                   

                                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

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