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Re: On scripture and sexuality

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  • edward d
    ... You are an amazing wealth of information Kenni…….never heard that bit about circumcision………OUCH! Anthony hugs anthony ! I love you, too!!!! It s
    Message 1 of 49 , Sep 29, 2009
      --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:

      You are an amazing wealth of information Kenni…….never heard that bit about circumcision………OUCH!

      Anthony


      hugs anthony ! I love you, too!!!!

      It's taken me a while to get round to finding it on my messy hard drive, but here's an article (at the end of this) that expands my thoughts on circumcision.

      The very interesting thing is that we clearly see a 'development' of a 'religious' procedure. What started as a snip of the section protruding past the head of the penis, ends up as mutilation. God never asked for that, it came as a process of development. All my study points to all religious ideas as undergoing a process of development. There are no 'sudden' divine revelations. It's all of human origin.

      anyway, here's James Peron on the development of circumcision.

      http://www.cirp.org/library/history/peron2/


      QUOTE


      CIRCUMCISION: THEN AND NOW

      By: James E. Peron, Ed.D.

      Milah: Symbolic Circumcision of Covenant

      The original Biblical circumcision of Abraham's time was a relatively minor ritual circumcision procedure in which only the redundant end of the foreskin extending beyond the tip of the glans was removed. This was called "Milah". It is from this term that the Jewish Religious Covenant circumcision ritual Bris Milah or Brith Milah got its name.

      Following "Milah", a penis so circumcised would still contain a considerable portion of the foreskin and the penis would have continued to go through its natural development since most of the foreskin would have remained intact. Protection of the glans would still have occurred. The foreskin would not be stripped back off the glans and would naturally separate from the glans gradually as the child matures, much as it would had the child not been circumcised. The sensitive frenulum would not have been disturbed or moved, and the foreskin remaining would continue to cover and protect a substantial portion of the glans, especially when flaccid, and the glans would appear as uncircumcised. There would be minimal loss of sensitivity or intended protection.

      This type circumcision continued throughout the ages and during the time of Christ. The circumcision of Christ would have been this type circumcision as referred to in the bible***. Indeed, biblical reference to circumcision is strictly this form of circumcision. It continued into the New Testament. It has been argued that Michelangelo's David should show David as Circumcised. Interestingly, Michelangelo presented David precisely as he should have appeared following an infant "Milah" circumcision. His glans is essentially covered with only the tip of the glans showing.


      -----------------------------------------------
    • Anthony Venn-Brown
      I sometimes hear of gay men talking about loneliness. I think that is a shame because I believe if we seek in the right areas of our diverse community we can
      Message 49 of 49 , Mar 11, 2010

        I sometimes hear of gay men talking about loneliness. I think that is a shame because I believe if we seek in the right areas of our diverse community we can find many meaningful friendships.

         

        When I’m coaching clients and this issue comes up…..I always suggest volunteering. By volunteering you usually get to spend time with other quality individuals in training and actually doing the volunteer work. From here friendships can develop.

         

        Being a single gay man now for over 10 years I guess I can speak from some experience. I’ve made sure that my happiness comes from within and the things I do. I used to think that when I met that ‘special’ person then I’d be happy and complete. I now know that is a formula for disaster.

         

        Some gay guys seek to deal with their sense of loneliness by picking up in bars, chat rooms or going to sauna’s……but from my observation , afterwards, this mostly accentuates the sense of loneliness, isolation and disconnection instead of easing it.

         

        Anthony Venn-Brown

        Professional Coach, Speaker & LGBT Consultant

        Author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

        Convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

        Honoured to be on the 2007 & 2009 list of the  25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

         

        From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
        Sent: Monday, 8 March 2010 9:16 PM
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness

         

         

        Loneliness is the price we pay for individuality. In a tribal society we would not be lonely, but we wouldn't have as much individuality, either. It is a trade-off, I think. I've even known people in marriages who say they go through phases where they feel lonely.

        Our isolation is made more tolerable -- and maybe easier to perpetuate -- with technology that we can enjoy alone: TV and the internet, mostly.

        I'm very busy working now. That takes up much of my time and makes me feel less lonely. I don't have a mate. I walk, read and watch movies. Every now and then I watch gay porn on the internet. Does that make me a bad person? Anti-gay conservatives would probably say so since I like gay porn. But I have it in perspective. Porn is just a fantasy, and I don't look at it all the time. I want a real relationship, not reckless unfeeling sex.

        I think I'll start a new post to ask everyone's feelings on gay porn. I'm curious what you all think.

        David

        --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:

        >
        > Some good advice coming through…..keep it up everyone.
        >
        >
        >
        > Anthony
        >
        > Moderator
        >
        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
        >
        > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
        forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.
        >
        > <http://www.freedom2b.org/>
        Freedom 2 B(e)
        >
        > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic
        Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Ninure D. Saunders
        > Sent: Sunday, 17 January 2010 10:33 PM
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I sorta understand how you guys feel.
        >
        >
        >
        > On the one hand, I prefer GBLT groups, not because I want to exclude anyone,
        but because I get tired of having to watch what I do or say.
        >
        >
        >
        > As to getting "invited out" after church and 12-Step groups and
        such, I'll invite myself if "they" are making their plans publicly. I budget for the "coffee and" .
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Pax Christi,
        > Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
        > My Blog
        > http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
        > Be my Friend on MySpace:
        >
        href="http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec">http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
        > ===========================
        > "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed;
        Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer
        >
        > People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They
        might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
        > â€" Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998
        >
        > Live simply. Love generously.
        > Care deeply. Speak kindly.
        > Leave the rest to God.
        >
        > --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
        > Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 5:22 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > Hey Jeff,
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm not surprised. "Gay anything" groups can be so cliquish.
        It's funny how the queer community sets up all these "Gay" equivalents of groups, trying to prove how very special we all are. When really, all we're doing is further stamping the idea of separatism and exclusivity. I get concerned when social groups incessantly try to get people to go to coffee shops, cafes & restaurants after their gatherings.
        >
        >
        >
        > If it's any assurance, I am a salaried person, and I often can't afford to
        go out either. Often it's because I have to use my money in a different way other than in a group situation making the cafe/restaurant owner wealthier.
        >
        >
        >
        > I wonder what ever happened to the idea of "Bring a plate"?
        >
        >
        >
        > I am sorry to hear that you feel you don't fit in that group. Especially
        when it deals with such an important thing in your life. I'm thinking of you & if you ever want to drop me a note - I'd love to hear from you.
        >
        >
        >
        > Take good care of yourself,
        >
        >
        >
        > Pete
        >
        > 2010/1/16 Jeffrey Starks <jsta43catrocks@ yahoo.com>
        >
        >
        >
        > Happy New Year!!
        >
        >
        >
        > With no computer at home, it takes quite a while for me to reply to
        anybody...sorry about that.
        >
        >
        >
        > The gay social groups here (Gay Alcoholics Anonymous, primarily) are just
        >
        > SO cliquish that it's embarrassing. I sense that everyone just tolerates
        me
        >
        > (as opposed to "accepting" me) because that's the minimum
        "requirements"
        >
        > of what AA does.
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm never invited to go out afterwards, and it doesn't help that I have
        such
        >
        > severe financial issues.
        >
        >
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@anthonyvenn brown.com>
        >
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
        >
        > Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 11:48:38 PM
        >
        >
        > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Are there any good gay social groups in your area Jeff…….or even a
        GLBT centre.
        >
        >
        >
        > Anthony
        >
        > Moderator
        >
        > http://groups. <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay> yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay
        >
        > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
        forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.
        >
        > Freedom 2 B(e) <http://www.freedom2b.org/>
        >
        > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/
        Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On
        Behalf Of Jeffrey Starks
        >
        >
        > Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 2:12 AM
        >
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
        >
        >
        > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I've never had an ongoing relationship with ANYONE.
        >
        >
        >
        > All of my female relationships have been in conjunction with lusting after
        male relationships in the church setting.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Sorry, but I hospitalized myself on 10/28/09 because I HAD NO FOOD MONEY
        and HAD to eat food SOMEHOW....
        >
        >
        >
        > Clearly, if I was WITH another human (the cat doesn't count), THAT
        wouldn't have been necessary... ..
        >
        >
        >
        > As it is, I have been broke since 11/16/09 and have been going to the
        pharmacy to get food, and selling my CD's for a combination of gas and food money. (I was in a car accident on 10/23/09, and am paying my own bills for the first time.)
        >
        >
        >
        > The last time I was "with" someone ("Tom?"), was over
        two years ago, and my left arm is getting very tired.
        >
        >
        >
        > Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas to you, too......
        >
        >
        >
        > Jeff in Ohio
        >
        > --- On Tue, 10/27/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@anthonyvenn
        brown.com> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@anthonyvenn brown.com>
        >
        >
        > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        >
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
        >
        >
        > Date: Tuesday, October 27, 2009, 1:13 AM
        >
        >
        >
        > One of the most valuable lessons you can ever learn in life is that all
        your dreams may not come true.
        >
        > You reach a point n your life when you realise that what you want is not
        always what you need.
        >
        > You come to understand yourself for the real feelings you hold inside your
        heart and not the feelings that others want you to have.
        >
        >
        >
        > When you begin to learn what life means to you and how you are going to
        spend your time and energies, you realise that life is only what you believe it to be.
        >
        > If you want happiness, then it is up to you to make yourself happy and not
        wait for someone else to do it.
        >
        >
        >
        > In the end no one else can make you happy, happiness comes from within.
        >
        > It is enjoying life for yourself and appreciating others as they enjoy you
        in the things you do.
        >
        > You may learn a lot of different lessons in your life but the most
        important thing of all is realising that life is everything you want it to be.
        >
        > You just have to believe in yourself, believe in others and enjoy the
        changes of life as they come your way.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Anthony
        >
        > Moderator
        >
        > http://groups. <
        href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay> yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay
        >
        > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
        forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.
        >
        > Freedom 2 B(e) <http://www.freedom2b.org/>
        >
        > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/
        Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On
        Behalf Of Dave48326
        > Sent: Tuesday, 27 October 2009 12:50 PM
        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
        > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: On coping with loneliness
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > G'day Korry and all ,
        >
        > I am alone but not lonely.
        >
        > Yes, I really want a partner and finding one always seems to elude me so
        far.
        >
        > The one part of being alone I have come to terms with is that I have
        learned to enjoy my own company. The part I am still working on is to become the kind of man I want to meet.
        >
        > I hope this helps you and anyone else who struggles with these issues.
        >
        > You are welcome to write me privately if you wish.
        >
        > Dave in 'Merica
        >
        > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com <
        href="http://us.mc368.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com">http://us.mc368.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com> , Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ ...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here's a question: how do the rest of you cope with loneliness when
        you don't have a partner. As you know, when you are feeling lonely is the worst time to seek a partner, because one gives off a "needy" vibe that is a turn off for people. Thus it become a vicious cycle: I want a partner because I am lonely, but because I am lonely I can not get one.
        > >
        > > So how does one then open oneself up to the love of God in the midst
        of this?
        > >
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Pete Zayonce
        > m: 0410248621
        > e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com
        >
        > "I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then
        I realized I was somebody."
        > â€" Lily Tomlin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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