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Re: [Exex-gay] Transition, Finding yourself, etc

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  • greatsailing@live.com
    Drew your insights give us a lot of to meditate on and to explore . I am curious about your statement , I refuse to be gay by default , may I ask you , do you
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 1 1:46 PM
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      Drew your insights give us a lot of to meditate on and to explore .  I am curious about your statement , I refuse to be gay by default , may I ask you , do you mean that you are gay by choice and that sexuality in your case is a choice.   There is a lot platitude in the human species , for some sexuality maybe is a choice but for some, sexuality is not a choice for some based on their feelings , attractions and desires, they are hetero, homo, bi etc 
      I agree with you that more than books , or specialist in the field, we define ourselves, and we know ourselves what we feel, what we want , what we are better than any psychiatrist , therapist etc knows.  We as human beings have many things in common and also subtle or not so subtle  differences and that enriches our species , which I personally celebrate , in this age , in which all the other species are object of worship and the human species look down,  I stand on a different position , our species have achieve greatness and creativity, from art , to science. That we are able to be destructive yes both destructive and creative .  We were gifted by God with the superior intellect over our fellow of the animal kingdom, I wonder if another has being chosen to receive the gift of intellect, they have not follow similar path of both creation and destruction .
      I am sorry that I diverted from the main subject with my comment but when I mention human species, I recalled the many times that I keep hearing bashing of the human race by others, sometimes so radical specially among those who called themselves lover of Nature and seems to forget that we , are members of Nature ,who really would like our destruction from earth and I feel concern about the level of self loathing and self hate against our species that many people nurture in their minds and hearts , I remember an old saying between altruism and fanaticism there is an fine line one cross , people can not tell the difference .

      Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:33 PM
      Subject: [Exex-gay] Transition, Finding yourself, etc


      Be prepared as this is a long missive and broaches subjects that may not be appropriate for you teenager...
      Speaking as a guy who has been through an ex-gay ministry (Love in Action 1988), I know what it's like to be in quandary about my spirituality, sexuality and what I want in life versus what I'm supposed to want in life. Having had a twin sister who went from straight to gay, and being in a position to explore my own integrity in these areas, I really don't think that things are so simple as the right and the left want to make it. Sexual identity was a manufactured term.  In many different cultures, partaking of the beauty of both sexes in sexuality was built in. For as much good as the psychiatric and psychological community does in helping people, they also create compartments where it's not necessary. I have long desired to see a "program" or "community home" where guys who are struggling in this area could live and support each other towards finding out who they are without being under the authority of someone with an agenda. Let's give them the tools and the information to discover for themselves just who they are.
      For myself: I refuse to be gay by default.
      I am exploring sexuality from a workshop approach with www.hai.org where I am always at choice and where I can discover myself in a safe, secure environment with people who love and care about me. My fear of abandonment with women is not a good enough excuse for me to accept a label that doesn't fit and keeps me from experiencing and possibly loving fully the other half of the world. Personally, I think most men aren't willing to ask the hard questions of themselves, nor willing to face the fears and unresolved conflicts that they have that might possibly fuel their sexual energies towards an inclination or pre-disposition. I think that ex-gay ministries shoot themselves in the foot, because they keep this compartmentalizatio n of sexuality and sexual expression into a very narrow and rigid model. They do not encourage sexual exploration and integration, but rather choose to leave the ex-gay in his/her sin by demanding that they be celibate (and for some denominations not even self-pleasuring) . The struggler's truth will come out, if not in risky behavior and action, then in fantasy mast...and/or wet dreams. As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
      My "Christian" counselor actually encouraged me that if I was going to explore with women, just don't do it with anyone in the congregation. Even he understood that to try to become married within the Church to change myself would cause undue heartache for both parties. (And he was right to do so. I mean, why not? I'm already shackled by the Church, why don't I step outside and see what tools are available for me to discover myself? That's what most guys do to convince themselves of their sexuality isn't it? Sleep with a woman and let how they feel afterwards determine their identity? But that's not what I'm doing. I'm setting out with open eyes, ears and an open heart to discover this part of the world. And I am choosing to move slowly, at my own pace, giving myself a chance to feel the fear as I interact with women. I'm not trying to change or become straight. I'm in the process of discovering myself.) 
      I believe that change happens from uncovering the truth, from pulling that which is in shadow into the light, and facing truth within the inward parts. Most Christians are too afraid to be willing to see into their blind spots and create a system that actually protects their secrets (we're only as sick as our secrets). How many places in a Church "program" do you really get to talk about about the nitty-gritty? About the taboo subjects? Any ex-gay ministry is flawed at the start, because the focus is on an agenda of an outward manifestation of "change" rather than an inward one where God becomes the source of our well-being and Truth is found within that I/Thou relationship that Buber talks about so well. So, too, is a system that tries to "change" people to accept themselves as "gay" merely by telling it to yourself over and over, until you believe it. Wait. Isn't that what brain-washing does?
      If the Church broke people down to bring them to a common denominator and then build them up into autonomous "human" beings that would be one thing. But most of the time they want you to become like everybody else, so you don't bump them from their own comfort zones. How many fallen leaders have we seen because they couldn't come clean. Play a game of "If you really knew me, you would know..." and see how deep or not deep they go. Don't Christians know that the sin of pride will get them to hell faster than the sin of homosexuality (if you believe that it is a sin)? Take your pastor's sermon that vilifies homosexuals and substitute the sin of pride and with the same vehemence to it. Make them feel as crappy about themselves as the church does to those who struggle with their sexuality in their midst.
      Maybe the problem is with Church structure today. How similiar it is to the pagan ziggurat temple in ancient times. Where one man was at the head of the pyramid, then below him, are the deacons and elders (usually men), then the young men (men again) waiting to be released into their ministry or calling (just as long as you don't try to usurp the guy currently at the top, but go elsewhere to establish your own ziggurat temple), and then the women of the Church who pretty much serve the men and the children and other men who don't fit into the other categories.
      Or maybe it's the religion itself, or a protestant interpretation of the Bible without a God that still does miracles. Or maybe it's the dogmatic holding onto a ridiculous idea that there are no fallacies within the Bible, and that the Bible is totally God-written, though through flawed human beings who made mistakes in every other part of their life accept for when they wrote down some words about God which would eventually become scripture. It defies logic and the fallen-ness of human nature.
      If you've done any studies in various world religions you will find many interesting concepts that speak truth, yet somehow never made it into the protestant or catholic cannon. Like the one that basically says, the God which you speak about, or read about, is not really the true God. (For we see as through a glass darkly.) For God is so much bigger and higher than words spoken or on paper and any time we try to put God in a box, we neglect the fullness of His/Her Being. (And here's a little bit more heresy for the bible thumpers out there.) Did you know that it is just as accurate to call God, Mother God as it is Father God? (El Shaddai - the many breasted one) Jesus is the only manifestation of God that it is appropriate to apply a specific sex to. When I told one of my christian housemates that once, he told me I was blaspheming and of the devil and walked around speaking in tongues every time I entered a room. C'mon people! Know your stuff. (And if that isn't religious abuse, I don't know what is.)
      The point is: if you really want to "change" something which is integral to being (who/what you are) you don't set out to do so, with an agenda. You can't white knuckle it or will yourself into a different state of "being" (inward definition of self) and fight off "temptation" . Negative actions do not work. i.e. decisions to "NOT" do such and such. There has to be a conscious choice to do something else, but that something else has to in some way meet that inner need that is present in the field of experience. No, if you want to "change," you commit yourself with perseverance to uncovering the truth within your own inward parts and asking for guidance from God/Spirit to help you understand the true meaning of what your excavation uncovers, not what meaning your Church or present guru or religion tells you it means. True change happens from the inside. Not from pushing away or denying something and saying it isn't so. Temptation only gets stronger when true intimacy and relationship are not involved in meeting the needs that are underneath a person's "struggle" as Thom so puts it.
       I believe that God meant for us to be human, b4 we become divine. As Gary Hayashi once said, "God never wanted us to be 'good'. He wanted us to be real...Even Jesus wouldn't accept the term good to be ascribed to him. He said, only God is good." God wanted us to live in the garden, naked and without shame. The human awareness institute gives me a chance to do just that. Go back to the garden.
      If truly "All things work together for good. For those who love the Lord (and I do) and are called according to His purpose." (I am.) Then my goal is assured and I can concentrate on the road and not try to live in the future or the past, but to remain in the present. God calls us present and he can use anything.
      My call or mission: is to create a world of love and acceptance, by being transparent within myself, by sharing my emotions with others and by speaking forth my truth. It is why I was put here on this earth. To laugh, to learn, and to love. In this way, I am given the gift of living. The gift of exploration and discovery. I find myself in my interactions with others and the improv that is my life. As I unveil the flaws of my legacy, I often find that what I thought were my flaws are actually my greatest strengths. My legacy of glory is assured. No one has to tell me that. I know my Savior lives and that he is faithful and able to complete all that he has begun within me. You don't have to know it. Or believe it. You cannot judge or say that my path is outside of God's will. (Well you can, but it only builds a wall between us.) "HE" is able to complete that which is within me. I just have to keep moving.
      God bless
      Stars & Garters
      Peace, Love and Tofu
      and Namaste' to All
      Hugs All Around,
      Drew VanDyche
      "Rhino Horn"
      NWTA Camp Augusta November 2005 (MKP)
      Resources that I have benefitted from:

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