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RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

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  • Derrick Wheeler
    Hi Anthony, Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which is great. One thing I ve found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the whole
    Message 1 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
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      Hi Anthony,

       

      Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which is great. One thing I’ve found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the whole concept of the old churchy things of “Don’t do this don’t do that” eg. Fornication. I’ve found this challenging in that I always read scriptures that mentioned sexual sins in terms of heterosexuality and marriage. How do you think concepts of fornication and promiscuity fit for gays who won’t be marrying or are not in a relationship. Indeed, what about the concept of open relationships? – what do you think the Bible says about these things for us?. I guess the driver behind my question is that as Christians we were taught to know the will of God and to follow it. If we disagree with God then too bad – God is right. The difficult thing, though, is truly knowing what Gods will is because of language translation issues, cultural references etc that cloud the true meaning of words in the Bible.

       

      Cheers

       

      DW

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Life Coach [mailto:lifecoach@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 2:50 PM
      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

       

      Thanks Geoff.

       

      Let me also put my recommendation to the book. I think it was the first one I’d read after I’d resolved things internally, spiritually and emotionally. Daniels’ book put the final touches by resolving things intellectually.

       

      Anthony

      Moderator and author of:

      'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

      To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

      My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Geoffrey Clare [mailto:geoffreyclare@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:42
      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

       

      Anthony,

       

      I am the ex-Russian Orthodox priestmonk who wrote to you about your book.

       

      I would suggest that your members read an excellent book called What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak, who has PhDs in Theology AND Psychology!  It puts all those seemingly damning quotes in their linguistic and cultural context.  It will put to rest all their concerns - and their guilt.

       

      Geoff.

      Life Coach <lifecoach@...> wrote:

      Rolando wrote

      Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but being true to yourself is the most important thing.

       

      I reckon you hit the nail on the head therebeing true to ourselves is the human challenge we all face.gay or straight. When you are gay though.. the journey of self discovery is often forced upon you because of your alienation.

       

      I just love this quote.

       

      People who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in Wonderland.  They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery.  They have already been thrust beyond the citys walls that keep ordinary people at a safe distance from the unknown.  For at least some outsiders, alienation has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic heros path to the possibility of discovery.  What outsiders discover in their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to repudiate self-contempt and recognise their alienation as a precious gift of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction.  At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no longer a victim.

       

      Quote from Coming Out Spiritually  The Next Step by Christian de la Huerta

       

       

      Anthony

      Moderator and author of:

      'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

      To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

      My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@...]
      Sent: Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:21
      To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

       

      Hi Stephen,

      And THANK you for taking the time out to email me and to respond. I
      feel very much at home here in this group. In a word, I feel
      embraced by everyone here and that's something that feels nice. Yes,
      I feel that if I got to know a guy and developed those feelings of
      intimacy with him, that something would happen and it would be
      something the two of us would enjoy. Not only that, but it would
      mean something special. I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it comes
      to these matters, and it feels like things are getting easier as
      time moves on. Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but
      being true to yourself is the most important thing. It's nice to see
      a group out here that understands that. Thanks for allowing me to be
      a part of this group.

      Hugs for all,
      Rolando



      --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
      <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
      > Hi Rolando,
      > Thanks SO much for emailing.  It is nice to hear from you.
      > In answer to your question....NO...it isn't bad you feel this way
      when some guy invites you home.  Some of us are spending our time
      trying not to say "yes" all the time!  You feeling you want to know
      someone first is a wonderful thing.  Keep hold of that I say.  Let
      that guide you.  It can save you a lot of heartache, believe me.  So
      many guys don't want to know you after you've spent the night
      together, and this can be so damaging to your self esteem, unless
      you are strong enough to push it aside.  So relax and get to know
      guys as friends.  That is a nice basis to pursue a relationship
      from, rather than just sex.
      > Your email sounded a little more hopeful and how wonderful that
      you can finally say you a gay man.  I know that is a hard thing.  It
      also took me a long time.  Even now, I'm still not sure about it,
      but even if one doesn't use the actual term, to at least
      acknowlege "I am attracted to men and it is a man I want to be with"
      is still a move in the right direction.
      > Stay in touch won't you.
      > Hugs...and God bless
      > Stephen.
      >
      > rolando_davidian <rolando_davidian@y...> wrote:
      > Hi Stephen,
      >
      > I was on medication at one time, and it only made me more jittery
      > and anxious. So I stopped taking it, which was a bad idea. However
      > there were circumstances that forced me to stop taking the meds,
      > being able to afford them, etc. But I think things will get better
      > in the long run. At least I am able to admit that I'm gay, which
      was
      > something I spent years trying to deny to myself. I am also very
      > frightened by intimacy. On one hand, I desire it with a man, but
      > when the opportunity presents itself, I run like the wind. This is
      > something I've been dealing with for as long as being attracted to
      > other men. I've been in bars and have been asked to go home with a
      > guy, yet I cannot do this because I want to really know someone
      > first and have something special going. Is this bad for me to feel
      > this way?
      >
      > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
      > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
      > > Hi there,
      > > If I can just address the issue of you being clinically
      depressed?
      > > I was diagnosed with this 3 years ago.  In the past I had
      > attempted suicide (because of being gay but I also think the
      > depression was at work too, but I didn't realise it)...I was
      someone
      > who used to cut myself...take pills and alcohol.  All self abuse
      > stuff.  Much of it was rooted in my depression and the low self
      > esteem due to thinking I was unacceptable to God and a bad
      > christian.  Well....all lies.
      > > Now....the depression.  You say you have been clinically
      depressed
      > for years....well....are you on medication?  If so, is it
      working? 
      > If not, why haven't you gone back to your doctor to ask for a
      change
      > in medication?  I say this from experience, you MUST keep looking
      > for the right medication until it works.  And you MUST give
      yourself
      > time to see if it works and then let it do what it does best and
      not
      > suddenly take yourself off it for whatever reason takes your
      fancy. 
      > A pill or two a day to help you feel normal is small price to pay
      > compared to having a mind that is not thinking clearly, and a body
      > that can't do what it has been created to do.
      > > Hope this helps abit.  Again...I have been through it.  These
      days
      > I seldom have any thoughts of suicide or self abuse.  My thinking
      is
      > much clearer and much of that is due to a couple of pills I take
      > every morning!
      > > You are loved.
      > > Stephen.
      > >
      > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
      > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also clinically
      > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
      exacerbated
      > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
      have
      > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
      > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
      sure
      > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality. My
      > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years back
      > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
      > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home" if I
      > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
      > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
      > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
      > these questions?
      > >
      > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
      > wrote: Hi Anthony,
      > > 
      > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a hard
      > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to have
      > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still cannot
      > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
      counseling.
      > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony. It
      > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
      conservative
      > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This is
      > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
      > homosexual mold.
      > >
      > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > HI Rolando
      > >
      > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url
      > (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
      > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
      > > Hi Rolando
      > >
      > > That's terrible emotional blackmail from your Dad Rolando.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > I found a book "conversations with God' by Neale Donald Walsh
      very
      > helpful to restore my faith and understanding of God. We hadn't
      > spoken for 6 years because he didn't answer my prayer to make me
      > straight. I realise now why. It was a stupid prayerand based on
      > the flawed belief that being homosexual meant I was unacceptable
      to
      > God.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > I now think completely differentlylove my life..love
      God..and
      > love being gay.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Can I post our conversation in our group please..there may be
      > others who would like to offer their thoughts.
      > >
      > > Anthony V-B
      > >
      > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also clinically
      > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
      exacerbated
      > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
      have
      > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
      > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
      sure
      > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality. My
      > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years back
      > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
      > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home" if I
      > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
      > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
      > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
      > these questions?
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
      > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 06:16
      > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
      > > Subject: RE: HI from Anthony
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Glad to hear you are still with us. 9 years of counselling is a
      > long time. is the problem accepting your sexuality or is it
      > something else.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Seeing all gays as sexual perverts is so out of touch with
      > reality. There are just as many sexual perverts amongst
      > heterosexuals.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Do you consider yourself a Christian these days.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Do your parents know you are gay?
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Anthony V-B
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
      > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:20
      > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
      > > Subject: Re: HI from Anthony
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Hi Anthony,
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a hard
      > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to have
      > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still cannot
      > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
      counseling.
      > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony. It
      > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
      conservative
      > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This is
      > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
      > homosexual mold.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Thought Id send you a quick email to say hi and see how things
      > are for you.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Last time we communicated you were going through a very
      difficult
      > time.
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > > Anthony Venn-Brown
      > >
      > > 
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/
      > >  
      > >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > Exex-gay-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >  
      > >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
      > > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/
      >  
      >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > Exex-gay-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >  
      >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      Service.
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      >
      >
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    • Life Coach
      I think this is a very worthwhile discussion Derrick. I just received an email from someone I knew way back when I was preaching who has just finished my book.
      Message 2 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
      • 0 Attachment

        I think this is a very worthwhile discussion Derrick.

         

        I just received an email from someone I knew way back when I was preaching who has just finished my book. He asked the same question many have asked. ‘You seem happy with being gay……..but do you have sex?’ I find it intriguing that they should ask such a personal question ……and so up front. What is the purpose behind the question I ask myself. Is it genuine inquiry or do they wan t to label me ask immoral if I say Yes.

         

        I can’t imagine myself asking that question of a heterosexual Christian…….nor would they…….its none of  my business.

         

        As the bible has many levels of interpretation…….can we leave it up to the individual to decide how they should live their lives in a clear conscience with God and live a life that is honouring to themselves and God?

         

        All interesting questions don’t you think?

         

        I know what works for me……..if I’m out of line….I know it……..and why would I chose to live a life that was honouring to me. It doesn’t make sense.

         

        Anthony

        Moderator and author of:

        'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

        To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Derrick Wheeler [mailto:derrick@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:17
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

         

        Hi Anthony,

         

        Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which is great. One thing I’ve found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the whole concept of the old churchy things of “Don’t do this don’t do that” eg. Fornication. I’ve found this challenging in that I always read scriptures that mentioned sexual sins in terms of heterosexuality and marriage. How do you think concepts of fornication and promiscuity fit for gays who won’t be marrying or are not in a relationship. Indeed, what about the concept of open relationships? – what do you think the Bible says about these things for us?. I guess the driver behind my question is that as Christians we were taught to know the will of God and to follow it. If we disagree with God then too bad – God is right. The difficult thing, though, is truly knowing what Gods will is because of language translation issues, cultural references etc that cloud the true meaning of words in the Bible.

         

        Cheers

         

        DW

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Life Coach [mailto:lifecoach@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 2:50 PM
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

         

        Thanks Geoff.

         

        Let me also put my recommendation to the book. I think it was the first one I’d read after I’d resolved things internally, spiritually and emotionally. Daniels’ book put the final touches by resolving things intellectually.

         

        Anthony

        Moderator and author of:

        'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

        To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Geoffrey Clare [mailto:geoffreyclare@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:42
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

         

        Anthony,

         

        I am the ex-Russian Orthodox priestmonk who wrote to you about your book.

         

        I would suggest that your members read an excellent book called What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak, who has PhDs in Theology AND Psychology!  It puts all those seemingly damning quotes in their linguistic and cultural context.  It will put to rest all their concerns - and their guilt.

         

        Geoff.

        Life Coach <lifecoach@...> wrote:

        Rolando wrote

        Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but being true to yourself is the most important thing.

         

        I reckon you hit the nail on the head therebeing true to ourselves is the human challenge we all face.gay or straight. When you are gay though.. the journey of self discovery is often forced upon you because of your alienation.

         

        I just love this quote.

         

        People who exist at the margins of society are very much like Alice in Wonderland.  They are not required to make the tough decision to risk their lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery.  They have already been thrust beyond the citys walls that keep ordinary people at a safe distance from the unknown.  For at least some outsiders, alienation has destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the mythic heros path to the possibility of discovery.  What outsiders discover in their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the courage to repudiate self-contempt and recognise their alienation as a precious gift of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not sanction.  At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the victim is no longer a victim.

         

        Quote from Coming Out Spiritually  The Next Step by Christian de la Huerta

         

         

        Anthony

        Moderator and author of:

        'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

        To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

         

        -----Original Message-----
        From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@...]
        Sent: Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:21
        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

         

        Hi Stephen,

        And THANK you for taking the time out to email me and to respond. I
        feel very much at home here in this group. In a word, I feel
        embraced by everyone here and that's something that feels nice. Yes,
        I feel that if I got to know a guy and developed those feelings of
        intimacy with him, that something would happen and it would be
        something the two of us would enjoy. Not only that, but it would
        mean something special. I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it comes
        to these matters, and it feels like things are getting easier as
        time moves on. Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but
        being true to yourself is the most important thing. It's nice to see
        a group out here that understands that. Thanks for allowing me to be
        a part of this group.

        Hugs for all,
        Rolando



        --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
        <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
        > Hi Rolando,
        > Thanks SO much for emailing.  It is nice to hear from you.
        > In answer to your question....NO...it isn't bad you feel this way
        when some guy invites you home.  Some of us are spending our time
        trying not to say "yes" all the time!  You feeling you want to know
        someone first is a wonderful thing.  Keep hold of that I say.  Let
        that guide you.  It can save you a lot of heartache, believe me.  So
        many guys don't want to know you after you've spent the night
        together, and this can be so damaging to your self esteem, unless
        you are strong enough to push it aside.  So relax and get to know
        guys as friends.  That is a nice basis to pursue a relationship
        from, rather than just sex.
        > Your email sounded a little more hopeful and how wonderful that
        you can finally say you a gay man.  I know that is a hard thing.  It
        also took me a long time.  Even now, I'm still not sure about it,
        but even if one doesn't use the actual term, to at least
        acknowlege "I am attracted to men and it is a man I want to be with"
        is still a move in the right direction.
        > Stay in touch won't you.
        > Hugs...and God bless
        > Stephen.
        >
        > rolando_davidian <rolando_davidian@y...> wrote:
        > Hi Stephen,
        >
        > I was on medication at one time, and it only made me more jittery
        > and anxious. So I stopped taking it, which was a bad idea. However
        > there were circumstances that forced me to stop taking the meds,
        > being able to afford them, etc. But I think things will get better
        > in the long run. At least I am able to admit that I'm gay, which
        was
        > something I spent years trying to deny to myself. I am also very
        > frightened by intimacy. On one hand, I desire it with a man, but
        > when the opportunity presents itself, I run like the wind. This is
        > something I've been dealing with for as long as being attracted to
        > other men. I've been in bars and have been asked to go home with a
        > guy, yet I cannot do this because I want to really know someone
        > first and have something special going. Is this bad for me to feel
        > this way?
        >
        > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
        > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
        > > Hi there,
        > > If I can just address the issue of you being clinically
        depressed?
        > > I was diagnosed with this 3 years ago.  In the past I had
        > attempted suicide (because of being gay but I also think the
        > depression was at work too, but I didn't realise it)...I was
        someone
        > who used to cut myself...take pills and alcohol.  All self abuse
        > stuff.  Much of it was rooted in my depression and the low self
        > esteem due to thinking I was unacceptable to God and a bad
        > christian.  Well....all lies.
        > > Now....the depression.  You say you have been clinically
        depressed
        > for years....well....are you on medication?  If so, is it
        working? 
        > If not, why haven't you gone back to your doctor to ask for a
        change
        > in medication?  I say this from experience, you MUST keep looking
        > for the right medication until it works.  And you MUST give
        yourself
        > time to see if it works and then let it do what it does best and
        not
        > suddenly take yourself off it for whatever reason takes your
        fancy. 
        > A pill or two a day to help you feel normal is small price to pay
        > compared to having a mind that is not thinking clearly, and a body
        > that can't do what it has been created to do.
        > > Hope this helps abit.  Again...I have been through it.  These
        days
        > I seldom have any thoughts of suicide or self abuse.  My thinking
        is
        > much clearer and much of that is due to a couple of pills I take
        > every morning!
        > > You are loved.
        > > Stephen.
        > >
        > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
        > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also clinically
        > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
        exacerbated
        > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
        have
        > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
        > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
        sure

      • Chat Mate
        Hello everyone. I have just joined this group and have been following the interesting conversations re: sex in a relationship. I have some thoughts I would
        Message 3 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
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          Re: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony Hello everyone.

          I have just joined this group and have been following the interesting conversations re: sex in a relationship.  I have some thoughts I would like to share with all of you.

          I am a 38 yr old man who strongly believes in Jesus Christ.  As I got to know myself, slowly emerging from denial, I realised that I am attracted to male-male intimacy – a gift I am still discovering.  I feel that physical involvement is a natural progression in any relationship that already enjoys a deep, one-to-one, spiritual, emotional, and intellectual connection i.e. One based on love and trust.  In this context I cannot see how physical love can hurt a person, in fact, I believe that it is natural.  I believe that physical involvement in the absence of the other dimensions to the relationship, is destructive because it fragments the individual.  The body is separated from the mind and the spirit, in its hunger to fulfil its own end.  This is not the way of a person who wants to align himself to the purpose that God has chosen for him.  Of course, none of us is perfect.  There are always temptations.  We will not always succeed to do what we know we should – but we should at least know what it is we believe in and stand for, and hopefully strive for.

          Incidentally, all of the comments above apply to “gay” or “straight” relationships.  A person of God is a person of God, irrespective of how far he has come on his spiritual journey, and irrespective of “passions” he controls or does not control.

          With love in Christ,
          Chat.
        • rolando_davidian
          Too many people go right to the sex issue when they meet or know of a gay person. But they fail to see that our sexual orientation is but a part of us, albeit
          Message 4 of 22 , Aug 10, 2004
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            Too many people go right to the sex issue when they meet or know of
            a gay person. But they fail to see that our sexual orientation is
            but a part of us, albeit one that is important. But still, a part.
            For me, being in love with someone special is a beautiful thing
            regardless of gender. I happen to love other men and I am not
            ashamed to say it. But I will not just go out and find men to have
            sex with. For me, there has to be something special going on.
            However I will never judge anyone for going out and having sex. That
            is between them and God. I have a friend at work who always tells me
            that being gay is just a choice, and that if I wanted to bad enough,
            I could change. I come back with this... I ask him if he chose to
            love women, or was it something that was natural to him? He cannot
            answer this question, because it would prove my point that
            homosexuality is not a sickness or disease. Many of us who are gay
            instinctively knew it from an early age, and we fought against our
            desires by trying to tell ourselves it was just a phase and so on.
            But deep down we knew it was no phase. The hardest thing for me was
            to admit to myself that I was gay; it took me almost 18 years to
            admit it. I danced around the entire issue, had a few girlfriends to
            please the family and to try and convince myself that if I just
            found the right woman, I'd be straight. I can remember a Pentecostal
            preacher anointing me with oil and praying that the "spirit of
            homosexuality" would come out of me. Needless to say, afterwards I
            was still as gay as before. You hear many times in the media that
            people have gone from gay to straight. But have they really? Upon
            closer scrutiny, many times the person still experiences same-sex
            attraction. They might even be in heterosexual marriages, but that
            desire is still inside them. It will always be if they were truly
            gay to begin with.


            --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
            > I think this is a very worthwhile discussion Derrick.
            >
            > I just received an email from someone I knew way back when I was
            preaching
            > who has just finished my book. He asked the same question many
            have asked.
            > 'You seem happy with being gay....but do you have sex?' I find it
            intriguing
            > that they should ask such a personal question ..and so up front.
            What is the
            > purpose behind the question I ask myself. Is it genuine inquiry or
            do they
            > wan t to label me ask immoral if I say Yes.
            >
            > I can't imagine myself asking that question of a heterosexual
            > Christian...nor would they...its none of my business.
            >
            > As the bible has many levels of interpretation...can we leave it
            up to the
            > individual to decide how they should live their lives in a clear
            conscience
            > with God and live a life that is honouring to themselves and God?
            >
            > All interesting questions don't you think?
            >
            > I know what works for me....if I'm out of line..I know it....and
            why would I
            > chose to live a life that was honouring to me. It doesn't make
            sense.
            >
            > Anthony
            > Moderator and author of:
            > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
            Struggle'
            > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
            > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
            > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
            > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
            accepted,
            > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Derrick Wheeler [mailto:derrick@o...]
            > Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:17
            > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
            >
            > Hi Anthony,
            >
            > Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which
            is great.
            > One thing I've found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the
            whole
            > concept of the old churchy things of "Don't do this don't do that"
            eg.
            > Fornication. I've found this challenging in that I always read
            scriptures
            > that mentioned sexual sins in terms of heterosexuality and
            marriage. How do
            > you think concepts of fornication and promiscuity fit for gays who
            won't be
            > marrying or are not in a relationship. Indeed, what about the
            concept of
            > open relationships? - what do you think the Bible says about these
            things
            > for us?. I guess the driver behind my question is that as
            Christians we were
            > taught to know the will of God and to follow it. If we disagree
            with God
            > then too bad - God is right. The difficult thing, though, is truly
            knowing
            > what Gods will is because of language translation issues, cultural
            > references etc that cloud the true meaning of words in the Bible.
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > DW
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Life Coach [mailto:lifecoach@m...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 2:50 PM
            > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
            >
            > Thanks Geoff.
            >
            > Let me also put my recommendation to the book. I think it was the
            first one
            > I'd read after I'd resolved things internally, spiritually and
            emotionally.
            > Daniels' book put the final touches by resolving things
            intellectually.
            >
            > Anthony
            > Moderator and author of:
            > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
            Struggle'
            > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
            > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
            > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
            > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
            accepted,
            > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Geoffrey Clare [mailto:geoffreyclare@y...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:42
            > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
            >
            > Anthony,
            >
            > I am the ex-Russian Orthodox priestmonk who wrote to you about
            your book.
            >
            > I would suggest that your members read an excellent book called
            What the
            > Bible Really Says about Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak, who has
            PhDs in
            > Theology AND Psychology! It puts all those seemingly damning
            quotes in
            > their linguistic and cultural context. It will put to rest all
            their
            > concerns - and their guilt.
            >
            > Geoff.
            >
            > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
            > Rolando wrote
            > Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but being true to
            yourself
            > is the most important thing.
            >
            > I reckon you hit the nail on the head therebeing true to ourselves
            is the
            > human challenge we all face.gay or straight. When you are gay
            though.. the
            > journey of self discovery is often forced upon you because of your
            > alienation.
            >
            > I just love this quote.
            >
            > People who exist at the margins of society are very much like
            Alice in
            > Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to
            risk their
            > lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have
            already
            > been thrust beyond the citys walls that keep ordinary people at a
            safe
            > distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders,
            alienation has
            > destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the
            mythic
            > heros path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders
            discover in
            > their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the
            courage to
            > repudiate self-contempt and recognise their alienation as a
            precious gift
            > of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not
            sanction.
            > At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the
            victim is no
            > longer a victim.
            >
            > Quote from Coming Out Spiritually The Next Step by Christian de
            la Huerta
            >
            >
            > Anthony
            > Moderator and author of:
            > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
            Struggle'
            > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
            > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
            > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
            > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
            > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
            accepted,
            > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
            > Sent: Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:21
            > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
            >
            > Hi Stephen,
            >
            > And THANK you for taking the time out to email me and to respond. I
            > feel very much at home here in this group. In a word, I feel
            > embraced by everyone here and that's something that feels nice.
            Yes,
            > I feel that if I got to know a guy and developed those feelings of
            > intimacy with him, that something would happen and it would be
            > something the two of us would enjoy. Not only that, but it would
            > mean something special. I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it
            comes
            > to these matters, and it feels like things are getting easier as
            > time moves on. Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but
            > being true to yourself is the most important thing. It's nice to
            see
            > a group out here that understands that. Thanks for allowing me to
            be
            > a part of this group.
            >
            > Hugs for all,
            > Rolando
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
            > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
            > > Hi Rolando,
            > > Thanks SO much for emailing. It is nice to hear from you.
            > > In answer to your question....NO...it isn't bad you feel this way
            > when some guy invites you home. Some of us are spending our time
            > trying not to say "yes" all the time! You feeling you want to know
            > someone first is a wonderful thing. Keep hold of that I say. Let
            > that guide you. It can save you a lot of heartache, believe me.
            So
            > many guys don't want to know you after you've spent the night
            > together, and this can be so damaging to your self esteem, unless
            > you are strong enough to push it aside. So relax and get to know
            > guys as friends. That is a nice basis to pursue a relationship
            > from, rather than just sex.
            > > Your email sounded a little more hopeful and how wonderful that
            > you can finally say you a gay man. I know that is a hard thing.
            It
            > also took me a long time. Even now, I'm still not sure about it,
            > but even if one doesn't use the actual term, to at least
            > acknowlege "I am attracted to men and it is a man I want to be
            with"
            > is still a move in the right direction.
            > > Stay in touch won't you.
            > > Hugs...and God bless
            > > Stephen.
            > >
            > > rolando_davidian <rolando_davidian@y...> wrote:
            > > Hi Stephen,
            > >
            > > I was on medication at one time, and it only made me more jittery
            > > and anxious. So I stopped taking it, which was a bad idea.
            However
            > > there were circumstances that forced me to stop taking the meds,
            > > being able to afford them, etc. But I think things will get
            better
            > > in the long run. At least I am able to admit that I'm gay, which
            > was
            > > something I spent years trying to deny to myself. I am also very
            > > frightened by intimacy. On one hand, I desire it with a man, but
            > > when the opportunity presents itself, I run like the wind. This
            is
            > > something I've been dealing with for as long as being attracted
            to
            > > other men. I've been in bars and have been asked to go home with
            a
            > > guy, yet I cannot do this because I want to really know someone
            > > first and have something special going. Is this bad for me to
            feel
            > > this way?
            > >
            > > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
            > > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
            > > > Hi there,
            > > > If I can just address the issue of you being clinically
            > depressed?
            > > > I was diagnosed with this 3 years ago. In the past I had
            > > attempted suicide (because of being gay but I also think the
            > > depression was at work too, but I didn't realise it)...I was
            > someone
            > > who used to cut myself...take pills and alcohol. All self abuse
            > > stuff. Much of it was rooted in my depression and the low self
            > > esteem due to thinking I was unacceptable to God and a bad
            > > christian. Well....all lies.
            > > > Now....the depression. You say you have been clinically
            > depressed
            > > for years....well....are you on medication? If so, is it
            > working?
            > > If not, why haven't you gone back to your doctor to ask for a
            > change
            > > in medication? I say this from experience, you MUST keep looking
            > > for the right medication until it works. And you MUST give
            > yourself
            > > time to see if it works and then let it do what it does best and
            > not
            > > suddenly take yourself off it for whatever reason takes your
            > fancy.
            > > A pill or two a day to help you feel normal is small price to pay
            > > compared to having a mind that is not thinking clearly, and a
            body
            > > that can't do what it has been created to do.
            > > > Hope this helps abit. Again...I have been through it. These
            > days
            > > I seldom have any thoughts of suicide or self abuse. My thinking
            > is
            > > much clearer and much of that is due to a couple of pills I take
            > > every morning!
            > > > You are loved.
            > > > Stephen.
            > > >
            > > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
            > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also clinically
            > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
            > exacerbated
            > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
            > have
            > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
            > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
            > sure
            > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
            My
            > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
            back
            > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
            > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home" if
            I
            > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
            > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
            > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
            > > these questions?
            > > >
            > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
            > > wrote: Hi Anthony,
            > > >
            > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a hard
            > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
            have
            > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
            cannot
            > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
            > counseling.
            > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
            It
            > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
            > conservative
            > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
            is
            > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
            > > homosexual mold.
            > > >
            > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > HI Rolando
            > > >
            > > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url
            > > (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
            > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
            > > > Hi Rolando
            > > >
            > > > That's terrible emotional blackmail from your Dad Rolando.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I found a book "conversations with God' by Neale Donald Walsh
            > very
            > > helpful to restore my faith and understanding of God. We hadn't
            > > spoken for 6 years because he didn't answer my prayer to make me
            > > straight. I realise now why. It was a stupid prayerand based on
            > > the flawed belief that being homosexual meant I was unacceptable
            > to
            > > God.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I now think completely differentlylove my life..love
            > God..and
            > > love being gay.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Can I post our conversation in our group please..there may be
            > > others who would like to offer their thoughts.
            > > >
            > > > Anthony V-B
            > > >
            > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also clinically
            > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
            > exacerbated
            > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
            > have
            > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
            > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
            > sure
            > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
            My
            > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
            back
            > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
            > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home" if
            I
            > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
            > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
            > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
            > > these questions?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 06:16
            > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
            > > > Subject: RE: HI from Anthony
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Glad to hear you are still with us. 9 years of counselling is a
            > > long time. is the problem accepting your sexuality or is it
            > > something else.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Seeing all gays as sexual perverts is so out of touch with
            > > reality. There are just as many sexual perverts amongst
            > > heterosexuals.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Do you consider yourself a Christian these days.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Do your parents know you are gay?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Anthony V-B
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -----Original Message-----
            > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:20
            > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
            > > > Subject: Re: HI from Anthony
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi Anthony,
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a hard
            > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
            have
            > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
            cannot
            > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
            > counseling.
            > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
            It
            > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
            > conservative
            > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
            is
            > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
            > > homosexual mold.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Thought Id send you a quick email to say hi and see how things
            > > are for you.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Last time we communicated you were going through a very
            > difficult
            > > time.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Anthony Venn-Brown
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > Exex-gay-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > > >
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            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ---------------------------------
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            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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            > >
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            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > Exex-gay-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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            > >
            > >
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            >
            >
            >
            > _____
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            >
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          • Life Coach
            Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……people still belief sexual orientation is a choice. They are just displaying their
            Message 5 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
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              Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……people still belief sexual orientation is a choice.

               

              They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would ever say that.

               

              Anthony

              Moderator and author of:

              'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

              To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

              My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

               

              -----Original Message-----
              From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:09
              To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

               

              Too many people go right to the sex issue when they meet or know of
              a gay person. But they fail to see that our sexual orientation is
              but a part of us, albeit one that is important. But still, a part.
              For me, being in love with someone special is a beautiful thing
              regardless of gender. I happen to love other men and I am not
              ashamed to say it. But I will not just go out and find men to have
              sex with. For me, there has to be something special going on.
              However I will never judge anyone for going out and having sex. That
              is between them and God. I have a friend at work who always tells me
              that being gay is just a choice, and that if I wanted to bad enough,
              I could change. I come back with this... I ask him if he chose to
              love women, or was it something that was natural to him? He cannot
              answer this question, because it would prove my point that
              homosexuality is not a sickness or disease. Many of us who are gay
              instinctively knew it from an early age, and we fought against our
              desires by trying to tell ourselves it was just a phase and so on.
              But deep down we knew it was no phase. The hardest thing for me was
              to admit to myself that I was gay; it took me almost 18 years to
              admit it. I danced around the entire issue, had a few girlfriends to
              please the family and to try and convince myself that if I just
              found the right woman, I'd be straight. I can remember a Pentecostal
              preacher anointing me with oil and praying that the "spirit of
              homosexuality" would come out of me. Needless to say, afterwards I
              was still as gay as before. You hear many times in the media that
              people have gone from gay to straight. But have they really? Upon
              closer scrutiny, many times the person still experiences same-sex
              attraction. They might even be in heterosexual marriages, but that
              desire is still inside them. It will always be if they were truly
              gay to begin with.


              --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:

              > I think this is a very worthwhile discussion Derrick.
              >
              > I just received an email from someone I knew way back when I was
              preaching
              > who has just finished my book. He asked the same question many
              have asked.
              > 'You seem happy with being gay....but do you have sex?' I find it
              intriguing
              > that they should ask such a personal question ..and so up front.
              What is the
              > purpose behind the question I ask myself. Is it genuine inquiry or
              do they
              > wan t to label me ask immoral if I say Yes.
              >
              > I can't imagine myself asking that question of a heterosexual
              > Christian...nor would they...its none of  my business.
              >
              > As the bible has many levels of interpretation...can we leave it
              up to the
              > individual to decide how they should live their lives in a clear
              conscience
              > with God and live a life that is honouring to themselves and God?
              >
              > All interesting questions don't you think?
              >
              > I know what works for me....if I'm out of line..I know it....and
              why would I
              > chose to live a life that was honouring to me. It doesn't make
              sense.
              >
              > Anthony
              > Moderator and author of:
              > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
              Struggle'
              > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
              > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html>
              .
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
              > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
              > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
              accepted,
              > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Derrick Wheeler [mailto:derrick@o...]
              > Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:17
              > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
              >
              > Hi Anthony,
              >
              > Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which
              is great.
              > One thing I've found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the
              whole
              > concept of the old churchy things of "Don't do this don't do
              that"
              eg.
              > Fornication. I've found this challenging in that I always read
              scriptures
              > that mentioned sexual sins in terms of heterosexuality and
              marriage. How do
              > you think concepts of fornication and promiscuity fit for gays who
              won't be
              > marrying or are not in a relationship. Indeed, what about the
              concept of
              > open relationships? - what do you think the Bible says about these
              things
              > for us?. I guess the driver behind my question is that as
              Christians we were
              > taught to know the will of God and to follow it. If we disagree
              with God
              > then too bad - God is right. The difficult thing, though, is truly
              knowing
              > what Gods will is because of language translation issues, cultural
              > references etc that cloud the true meaning of words in the Bible.
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > DW
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Life Coach [mailto:lifecoach@m...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 2:50 PM
              > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
              >
              > Thanks Geoff.
              >
              > Let me also put my recommendation to the book. I think it was the
              first one
              > I'd read after I'd resolved things internally, spiritually and
              emotionally.
              > Daniels' book put the final touches by resolving things
              intellectually.
              >
              > Anthony
              > Moderator and author of:
              > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
              Struggle'
              > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
              > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html>
              .
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
              > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
              > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
              accepted,
              > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Geoffrey Clare [mailto:geoffreyclare@y...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:42
              > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
              >
              > Anthony,
              >
              > I am the ex-Russian Orthodox priestmonk who wrote to you about
              your book.
              >
              > I would suggest that your members read an excellent book called
              What the
              > Bible Really Says about Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak, who has
              PhDs in
              > Theology AND Psychology!  It puts all those seemingly damning
              quotes in
              > their linguistic and cultural context.  It will put to rest all
              their
              > concerns - and their guilt.
              >
              > Geoff.
              >
              > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
              > Rolando wrote
              > Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but being true to
              yourself
              > is the most important thing.
              >
              > I reckon you hit the nail on the head therebeing true to ourselves
              is the
              > human challenge we all face.gay or straight. When you are gay
              though.. the
              > journey of self discovery is often forced upon you because of your
              > alienation.
              >
              > I just love this quote.
              >
              > People who exist at the margins of society are very much like
              Alice in
              > Wonderland.  They are not required to make the tough decision to
              risk their
              > lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery.  They have
              already
              > been thrust beyond the citys walls that keep ordinary people at a
              safe
              > distance from the unknown.  For at least some outsiders,
              alienation has
              > destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the
              mythic
              > heros path to the possibility of discovery.  What outsiders
              discover in
              > their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the
              courage to
              > repudiate self-contempt and recognise their alienation as a
              precious gift
              > of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did not
              sanction.
              > At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the
              victim is no
              > longer a victim.
              >
              > Quote from Coming Out Spiritually  The Next Step by Christian
              de
              la Huerta
              >
              >
              > Anthony
              > Moderator and author of:
              > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
              Struggle'
              > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
              > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html>
              .
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
              > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
              > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
              accepted,
              > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
              > Sent: Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:21
              > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
              >
              > Hi Stephen,
              >
              > And THANK you for taking the time out to email me and to respond. I
              > feel very much at home here in this group. In a word, I feel
              > embraced by everyone here and that's something that feels nice.
              Yes,
              > I feel that if I got to know a guy and developed those feelings of
              > intimacy with him, that something would happen and it would be
              > something the two of us would enjoy. Not only that, but it would
              > mean something special. I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it
              comes
              > to these matters, and it feels like things are getting easier as
              > time moves on. Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but
              > being true to yourself is the most important thing. It's nice to
              see
              > a group out here that understands that. Thanks for allowing me to
              be
              > a part of this group.
              >
              > Hugs for all,
              > Rolando
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
              > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
              > > Hi Rolando,
              > > Thanks SO much for emailing.  It is nice to hear from you.
              > > In answer to your question....NO...it isn't bad you feel this way
              > when some guy invites you home.  Some of us are spending our time
              > trying not to say "yes" all the time!  You feeling you
              want to know
              > someone first is a wonderful thing.  Keep hold of that I
              say.  Let
              > that guide you.  It can save you a lot of heartache, believe
              me. 
              So
              > many guys don't want to know you after you've spent the night
              > together, and this can be so damaging to your self esteem, unless
              > you are strong enough to push it aside.  So relax and get to know
              > guys as friends.  That is a nice basis to pursue a relationship
              > from, rather than just sex.
              > > Your email sounded a little more hopeful and how wonderful that
              > you can finally say you a gay man.  I know that is a hard
              thing. 
              It
              > also took me a long time.  Even now, I'm still not sure about it,
              > but even if one doesn't use the actual term, to at least
              > acknowlege "I am attracted to men and it is a man I want to be
              with"
              > is still a move in the right direction.
              > > Stay in touch won't you.
              > > Hugs...and God bless
              > > Stephen.
              > >
              > > rolando_davidian <rolando_davidian@y...> wrote:
              > > Hi Stephen,
              > >
              > > I was on medication at one time, and it only made me more jittery
              > > and anxious. So I stopped taking it, which was a bad idea.
              However
              > > there were circumstances that forced me to stop taking the meds,
              > > being able to afford them, etc. But I think things will get
              better
              > > in the long run. At least I am able to admit that I'm gay, which
              > was
              > > something I spent years trying to deny to myself. I am also very
              > > frightened by intimacy. On one hand, I desire it with a man, but
              > > when the opportunity presents itself, I run like the wind. This
              is
              > > something I've been dealing with for as long as being attracted
              to
              > > other men. I've been in bars and have been asked to go home with
              a
              > > guy, yet I cannot do this because I want to really know someone
              > > first and have something special going. Is this bad for me to
              feel
              > > this way?
              > >
              > > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
              > > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
              > > > Hi there,
              > > > If I can just address the issue of you being clinically
              > depressed?
              > > > I was diagnosed with this 3 years ago.  In the past I
              had
              > > attempted suicide (because of being gay but I also think the
              > > depression was at work too, but I didn't realise it)...I was
              > someone
              > > who used to cut myself...take pills and alcohol.  All self
              abuse
              > > stuff.  Much of it was rooted in my depression and the low
              self
              > > esteem due to thinking I was unacceptable to God and a bad
              > > christian.  Well....all lies.
              > > > Now....the depression.  You say you have been
              clinically
              > depressed
              > > for years....well....are you on medication?  If so, is it
              > working?
              > > If not, why haven't you gone back to your doctor to ask for a
              > change
              > > in medication?  I say this from experience, you MUST keep
              looking
              > > for the right medication until it works.  And you MUST give
              > yourself
              > > time to see if it works and then let it do what it does best and
              > not
              > > suddenly take yourself off it for whatever reason takes your
              > fancy.
              > > A pill or two a day to help you feel normal is small price to pay
              > > compared to having a mind that is not thinking clearly, and a
              body
              > > that can't do what it has been created to do.
              > > > Hope this helps abit.  Again...I have been through
              it.  These
              > days
              > > I seldom have any thoughts of suicide or self abuse.  My
              thinking
              > is
              > > much clearer and much of that is due to a couple of pills I take
              > > every morning!
              > > > You are loved.
              > > > Stephen.
              > > >
              > > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
              > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also
              clinically
              > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
              > exacerbated
              > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
              > have
              > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
              > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
              > sure
              > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
              My
              > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
              back
              > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
              > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him
              home" if
              I
              > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
              > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
              > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
              > > these questions?
              > > >
              > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach
              <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
              > > wrote: Hi Anthony,
              > > >
              > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a
              hard
              > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
              have
              > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
              cannot
              > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
              > counseling.
              > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
              It
              > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
              > conservative
              > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
              is
              > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
              > > homosexual mold.
              > > >
              > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > HI Rolando
              > > >
              > > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url
              > > (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
              > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
              > > > Hi Rolando
              > > >
              > > > That's terrible emotional blackmail from your Dad Rolando.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I found a book "conversations with God' by Neale Donald
              Walsh
              > very
              > > helpful to restore my faith and understanding of God. We hadn't
              > > spoken for 6 years because he didn't answer my prayer to make me
              > > straight. I realise now why. It was a stupid prayerand based on
              > > the flawed belief that being homosexual meant I was unacceptable
              > to
              > > God.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I now think completely differentlylove my life..love
              > God..and
              > > love being gay.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Can I post our conversation in our group please..there may
              be
              > > others who would like to offer their thoughts.
              > > >
              > > > Anthony V-B
              > > >
              > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also
              clinically
              > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
              > exacerbated
              > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
              > have
              > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot trust
              > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
              > sure
              > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
              My
              > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
              back
              > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me. And
              > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him
              home" if
              I
              > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my dad
              > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I suppose
              > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
              > > these questions?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 06:16
              > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
              > > > Subject: RE: HI from Anthony
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Glad to hear you are still with us. 9 years of counselling
              is a
              > > long time. is the problem accepting your sexuality or is it
              > > something else.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Seeing all gays as sexual perverts is so out of touch with
              > > reality. There are just as many sexual perverts amongst
              > > heterosexuals.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Do you consider yourself a Christian these days.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Do your parents know you are gay?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Anthony V-B
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > -----Original Message-----
              > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:20
              > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
              > > > Subject: Re: HI from Anthony
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi Anthony,
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a
              hard
              > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
              have
              > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
              cannot
              > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
              > counseling.
              > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
              It
              > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
              > conservative
              > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
              is
              > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
              > > homosexual mold.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thought Id send you a quick email to say hi and see how things
              > > are for you.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Last time we communicated you were going through a very
              > difficult
              > > time.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Anthony Venn-Brown
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              > > >
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            • Life Coach
              Hi Chat man welcome Your post just reminded me how unhealthy my sex life was when I suppressed my sexuality. I ended up with a sexual addiction. I think that
              Message 6 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Re: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

                Hi Chat man

                 

                welcome

                 

                Your post just reminded me how unhealthy my sex life was when I suppressed my sexuality. I ended up with a sexual addiction. I think that this in not uncommon.

                 

                Acceptance has brought me total freedom from that……and not one dollar spent on therapy……hehe.

                 

                Anthony

                Moderator and author of:

                'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

                To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

                My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Chat Mate [mailto:chatm84u@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:49
                To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony

                 

                Hello everyone.

                I have just joined this group and have been following the interesting conversations re: sex in a relationship.  I have some thoughts I would like to share with all of you.

                I am a 38 yr old man who strongly believes in Jesus Christ.  As I got to know myself, slowly emerging from denial, I realised that I am attracted to male-male intimacy – a gift I am still discovering.  I feel that physical involvement is a natural progression in any relationship that already enjoys a deep, one-to-one, spiritual, emotional, and intellectual connection i.e. One based on love and trust.  In this context I cannot see how physical love can hurt a person, in fact, I believe that it is natural.  I believe that physical involvement in the absence of the other dimensions to the relationship, is destructive because it fragments the individual.  The body is separated from the mind and the spirit, in its hunger to fulfil its own end.  This is not the way of a person who wants to align himself to the purpose that God has chosen for him.  Of course, none of us is perfect.  There are always temptations.  We will not always succeed to do what we know we should – but we should at least know what it is we believe in and stand for, and hopefully strive for.

                Incidentally, all of the comments above apply to “gay” or “straight” relationships.  A person of God is a person of God, irrespective of how far he has come on his spiritual journey, and irrespective of “passions” he controls or does not control.

                With love in Christ,
                Chat.


              • rolando_davidian
                And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them. But when they hear evidence
                Message 7 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
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                  And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept
                  scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them. But
                  when they hear evidence to prove that being gay is not a choice,
                  that it is the way we are made then they get upset and call the
                  scientific evidence faulty. So hypocritcal in my view. And the right-
                  wing christian community jumps on things like this, and they take
                  out ads in the newspapers claiming that homosexuals have been
                  changed. And what's really funny is they parade these people out
                  there who are in SUCH denial about their true feelings. It sickens
                  me. Here the ex-gay ministries are doing more harm than good. I have
                  been through an ex-gay ministry and I call tell you this much; the
                  people there ARE gay. They're just trying to fight their natural
                  instincts. It's sad. I quit after 7 weeks because I realized that I
                  could not change what I am. I wish they could see that also for
                  themselves.

                  --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                  > Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……people
                  still
                  > belief sexual orientation is a choice.
                  >
                  > They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would
                  ever say
                  > that.
                  >
                  > Anthony
                  > Moderator and author of:
                  > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                  Struggle'
                  > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                  > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                  > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                  > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                  > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                  accepted,
                  > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                  > Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:09
                  > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
                  >
                  > Too many people go right to the sex issue when they meet or know of
                  > a gay person. But they fail to see that our sexual orientation is
                  > but a part of us, albeit one that is important. But still, a part.
                  > For me, being in love with someone special is a beautiful thing
                  > regardless of gender. I happen to love other men and I am not
                  > ashamed to say it. But I will not just go out and find men to have
                  > sex with. For me, there has to be something special going on.
                  > However I will never judge anyone for going out and having sex.
                  That
                  > is between them and God. I have a friend at work who always tells
                  me
                  > that being gay is just a choice, and that if I wanted to bad
                  enough,
                  > I could change. I come back with this... I ask him if he chose to
                  > love women, or was it something that was natural to him? He cannot
                  > answer this question, because it would prove my point that
                  > homosexuality is not a sickness or disease. Many of us who are gay
                  > instinctively knew it from an early age, and we fought against our
                  > desires by trying to tell ourselves it was just a phase and so on.
                  > But deep down we knew it was no phase. The hardest thing for me was
                  > to admit to myself that I was gay; it took me almost 18 years to
                  > admit it. I danced around the entire issue, had a few girlfriends
                  to
                  > please the family and to try and convince myself that if I just
                  > found the right woman, I'd be straight. I can remember a
                  Pentecostal
                  > preacher anointing me with oil and praying that the "spirit of
                  > homosexuality" would come out of me. Needless to say, afterwards I
                  > was still as gay as before. You hear many times in the media that
                  > people have gone from gay to straight. But have they really? Upon
                  > closer scrutiny, many times the person still experiences same-sex
                  > attraction. They might even be in heterosexual marriages, but that
                  > desire is still inside them. It will always be if they were truly
                  > gay to begin with.
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...>
                  wrote:
                  > > I think this is a very worthwhile discussion Derrick.
                  > >
                  > > I just received an email from someone I knew way back when I was
                  > preaching
                  > > who has just finished my book. He asked the same question many
                  > have asked.
                  > > 'You seem happy with being gay....but do you have sex?' I find it
                  > intriguing
                  > > that they should ask such a personal question ..and so up front.
                  > What is the
                  > > purpose behind the question I ask myself. Is it genuine inquiry
                  or
                  > do they
                  > > wan t to label me ask immoral if I say Yes.
                  > >
                  > > I can't imagine myself asking that question of a heterosexual
                  > > Christian...nor would they...its none of my business.
                  > >
                  > > As the bible has many levels of interpretation...can we leave it
                  > up to the
                  > > individual to decide how they should live their lives in a clear
                  > conscience
                  > > with God and live a life that is honouring to themselves and God?
                  > >
                  > > All interesting questions don't you think?
                  > >
                  > > I know what works for me....if I'm out of line..I know it....and
                  > why would I
                  > > chose to live a life that was honouring to me. It doesn't make
                  > sense.
                  > >
                  > > Anthony
                  > > Moderator and author of:
                  > > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                  > Struggle'
                  > > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                  > > < http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                  > > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                  > > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to
                  be
                  > > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                  > accepted,
                  > > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Derrick Wheeler [mailto:derrick@o...]
                  > > Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 11:17
                  > > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
                  > >
                  > > Hi Anthony,
                  > >
                  > > Since coming out I have now an honest relationship with God which
                  > is great.
                  > > One thing I've found strange, or perhaps challenging now, is the
                  > whole
                  > > concept of the old churchy things of "Don't do this don't do
                  that"
                  > eg.
                  > > Fornication. I've found this challenging in that I always read
                  > scriptures
                  > > that mentioned sexual sins in terms of heterosexuality and
                  > marriage. How do
                  > > you think concepts of fornication and promiscuity fit for gays
                  who
                  > won't be
                  > > marrying or are not in a relationship. Indeed, what about the
                  > concept of
                  > > open relationships? - what do you think the Bible says about
                  these
                  > things
                  > > for us?. I guess the driver behind my question is that as
                  > Christians we were
                  > > taught to know the will of God and to follow it. If we disagree
                  > with God
                  > > then too bad - God is right. The difficult thing, though, is
                  truly
                  > knowing
                  > > what Gods will is because of language translation issues,
                  cultural
                  > > references etc that cloud the true meaning of words in the Bible.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers
                  > >
                  > > DW
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Life Coach [mailto:lifecoach@m...]
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 2:50 PM
                  > > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
                  > >
                  > > Thanks Geoff.
                  > >
                  > > Let me also put my recommendation to the book. I think it was the
                  > first one
                  > > I'd read after I'd resolved things internally, spiritually and
                  > emotionally.
                  > > Daniels' book put the final touches by resolving things
                  > intellectually.
                  > >
                  > > Anthony
                  > > Moderator and author of:
                  > > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                  > Struggle'
                  > > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                  > > < http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                  > > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                  > > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to
                  be
                  > > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                  > accepted,
                  > > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: Geoffrey Clare [mailto:geoffreyclare@y...]
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2004 12:42
                  > > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
                  > >
                  > > Anthony,
                  > >
                  > > I am the ex-Russian Orthodox priestmonk who wrote to you about
                  > your book.
                  > >
                  > > I would suggest that your members read an excellent book called
                  > What the
                  > > Bible Really Says about Homosexuality by Daniel Helminiak, who
                  has
                  > PhDs in
                  > > Theology AND Psychology! It puts all those seemingly damning
                  > quotes in
                  > > their linguistic and cultural context. It will put to rest all
                  > their
                  > > concerns - and their guilt.
                  > >
                  > > Geoff.
                  > >
                  > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                  > > Rolando wrote
                  > > Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough; but being true
                  to
                  > yourself
                  > > is the most important thing.
                  > >
                  > > I reckon you hit the nail on the head therebeing true to
                  ourselves
                  > is the
                  > > human challenge we all face.gay or straight. When you are gay
                  > though.. the
                  > > journey of self discovery is often forced upon you because of
                  your
                  > > alienation.
                  > >
                  > > I just love this quote.
                  > >
                  > > People who exist at the margins of society are very much like
                  > Alice in
                  > > Wonderland. They are not required to make the tough decision to
                  > risk their
                  > > lives by embarking on an adventure of self-discovery. They have
                  > already
                  > > been thrust beyond the citys walls that keep ordinary people at
                  a
                  > safe
                  > > distance from the unknown. For at least some outsiders,
                  > alienation has
                  > > destroyed traditional presumptions of identity and opened up the
                  > mythic
                  > > heros path to the possibility of discovery. What outsiders
                  > discover in
                  > > their adventures on the other side of the looking glass is the
                  > courage to
                  > > repudiate self-contempt and recognise their alienation as a
                  > precious gift
                  > > of freedom from arbitrary norms that they did not make and did
                  not
                  > sanction.
                  > > At the moment a person questions the validity of the rules, the
                  > victim is no
                  > > longer a victim.
                  > >
                  > > Quote from Coming Out Spiritually The Next Step by Christian
                  de
                  > la Huerta
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Anthony
                  > > Moderator and author of:
                  > > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                  > Struggle'
                  > > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                  > > < http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                  > > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                  > > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to
                  be
                  > > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                  > accepted,
                  > > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                  > >
                  > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                  > > Sent: Sunday, 8 August 2004 01:21
                  > > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: HI from Anthony
                  > >
                  > > Hi Stephen,
                  > >
                  > > And THANK you for taking the time out to email me and to
                  respond. I
                  > > feel very much at home here in this group. In a word, I feel
                  > > embraced by everyone here and that's something that feels nice.
                  > Yes,
                  > > I feel that if I got to know a guy and developed those feelings
                  of
                  > > intimacy with him, that something would happen and it would be
                  > > something the two of us would enjoy. Not only that, but it would
                  > > mean something special. I guess I'm just old-fashioned when it
                  > comes
                  > > to these matters, and it feels like things are getting easier as
                  > > time moves on. Admitting to yourself that you ARE gay is tough;
                  but
                  > > being true to yourself is the most important thing. It's nice to
                  > see
                  > > a group out here that understands that. Thanks for allowing me to
                  > be
                  > > a part of this group.
                  > >
                  > > Hugs for all,
                  > > Rolando
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
                  > > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Hi Rolando,
                  > > > Thanks SO much for emailing. It is nice to hear from you.
                  > > > In answer to your question....NO...it isn't bad you feel this
                  way
                  > > when some guy invites you home. Some of us are spending our time
                  > > trying not to say "yes" all the time! You feeling you want to
                  know
                  > > someone first is a wonderful thing. Keep hold of that I say.
                  Let
                  > > that guide you. It can save you a lot of heartache, believe me.
                  > So
                  > > many guys don't want to know you after you've spent the night
                  > > together, and this can be so damaging to your self esteem, unless
                  > > you are strong enough to push it aside. So relax and get to know
                  > > guys as friends. That is a nice basis to pursue a relationship
                  > > from, rather than just sex.
                  > > > Your email sounded a little more hopeful and how wonderful that
                  > > you can finally say you a gay man. I know that is a hard thing.
                  > It
                  > > also took me a long time. Even now, I'm still not sure about it,
                  > > but even if one doesn't use the actual term, to at least
                  > > acknowlege "I am attracted to men and it is a man I want to be
                  > with"
                  > > is still a move in the right direction.
                  > > > Stay in touch won't you.
                  > > > Hugs...and God bless
                  > > > Stephen.
                  > > >
                  > > > rolando_davidian <rolando_davidian@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Hi Stephen,
                  > > >
                  > > > I was on medication at one time, and it only made me more
                  jittery
                  > > > and anxious. So I stopped taking it, which was a bad idea.
                  > However
                  > > > there were circumstances that forced me to stop taking the
                  meds,
                  > > > being able to afford them, etc. But I think things will get
                  > better
                  > > > in the long run. At least I am able to admit that I'm gay,
                  which
                  > > was
                  > > > something I spent years trying to deny to myself. I am also
                  very
                  > > > frightened by intimacy. On one hand, I desire it with a man,
                  but
                  > > > when the opportunity presents itself, I run like the wind. This
                  > is
                  > > > something I've been dealing with for as long as being attracted
                  > to
                  > > > other men. I've been in bars and have been asked to go home
                  with
                  > a
                  > > > guy, yet I cannot do this because I want to really know someone
                  > > > first and have something special going. Is this bad for me to
                  > feel
                  > > > this way?
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Loves Flying
                  > > > <stephenlovesflying@y...> wrote:
                  > > > > Hi there,
                  > > > > If I can just address the issue of you being clinically
                  > > depressed?
                  > > > > I was diagnosed with this 3 years ago. In the past I had
                  > > > attempted suicide (because of being gay but I also think the
                  > > > depression was at work too, but I didn't realise it)...I was
                  > > someone
                  > > > who used to cut myself...take pills and alcohol. All self
                  abuse
                  > > > stuff. Much of it was rooted in my depression and the low self
                  > > > esteem due to thinking I was unacceptable to God and a bad
                  > > > christian. Well....all lies.
                  > > > > Now....the depression. You say you have been clinically
                  > > depressed
                  > > > for years....well....are you on medication? If so, is it
                  > > working?
                  > > > If not, why haven't you gone back to your doctor to ask for a
                  > > change
                  > > > in medication? I say this from experience, you MUST keep
                  looking
                  > > > for the right medication until it works. And you MUST give
                  > > yourself
                  > > > time to see if it works and then let it do what it does best
                  and
                  > > not
                  > > > suddenly take yourself off it for whatever reason takes your
                  > > fancy.
                  > > > A pill or two a day to help you feel normal is small price to
                  pay
                  > > > compared to having a mind that is not thinking clearly, and a
                  > body
                  > > > that can't do what it has been created to do.
                  > > > > Hope this helps abit. Again...I have been through it. These
                  > > days
                  > > > I seldom have any thoughts of suicide or self abuse. My
                  thinking
                  > > is
                  > > > much clearer and much of that is due to a couple of pills I
                  take
                  > > > every morning!
                  > > > > You are loved.
                  > > > > Stephen.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Life Coach <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                  > > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also
                  clinically
                  > > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
                  > > exacerbated
                  > > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
                  > > have
                  > > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot
                  trust
                  > > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
                  > > sure
                  > > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
                  > My
                  > > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
                  > back
                  > > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me.
                  And
                  > > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home"
                  if
                  > I
                  > > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my
                  dad
                  > > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I
                  suppose
                  > > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
                  > > > these questions?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
                  > > > wrote: Hi Anthony,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a
                  hard
                  > > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
                  > have
                  > > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
                  > cannot
                  > > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
                  > > counseling.
                  > > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
                  > It
                  > > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
                  > > conservative
                  > > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
                  > is
                  > > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
                  > > > homosexual mold.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anthony Venn-Brown - Personal Coach <anthony.venn-brown@p...>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > HI Rolando
                  > > > >
                  > > > > v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url
                  > > > (#default#VML);}w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
                  > > > {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
                  > > > > Hi Rolando
                  > > > >
                  > > > > That's terrible emotional blackmail from your Dad Rolando.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I found a book "conversations with God' by Neale Donald Walsh
                  > > very
                  > > > helpful to restore my faith and understanding of God. We hadn't
                  > > > spoken for 6 years because he didn't answer my prayer to make
                  me
                  > > > straight. I realise now why. It was a stupid prayerand based on
                  > > > the flawed belief that being homosexual meant I was
                  unacceptable
                  > > to
                  > > > God.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I now think completely differentlylove my life..love
                  > > God..and
                  > > > love being gay.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Can I post our conversation in our group please..there may be
                  > > > others who would like to offer their thoughts.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anthony V-B
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The problem is not just with my sexuality, I am also
                  clinically
                  > > > depressed. Always have been. But the sexuality issue has
                  > > exacerbated
                  > > > everything else. I do not see myself as a christian anymore; I
                  > > have
                  > > > felt such pain from the church and alienation that I cannot
                  trust
                  > > > God anymore. I have a deep love for God, but I do not know for
                  > > sure
                  > > > that He feels the same way towards me because of the sexuality.
                  > My
                  > > > parents highly suspect it, although I told them several years
                  > back
                  > > > then had to recount it because they threatened to disown me.
                  And
                  > > > because my dad said "the angels were coming to take him home"
                  if
                  > I
                  > > > did not renounce it. I was scared and did not want to lose my
                  dad
                  > > > whom I love. But the feelings for men are still there. I
                  suppose
                  > > > they always will be. But why, why me? Am I being selfish to ask
                  > > > these questions?
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 06:16
                  > > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
                  > > > > Subject: RE: HI from Anthony
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Glad to hear you are still with us. 9 years of counselling
                  is a
                  > > > long time. is the problem accepting your sexuality or is it
                  > > > something else.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Seeing all gays as sexual perverts is so out of touch with
                  > > > reality. There are just as many sexual perverts amongst
                  > > > heterosexuals.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Do you consider yourself a Christian these days.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Do your parents know you are gay?
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anthony V-B
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > -----Original Message-----
                  > > > > From: Rolando Miller [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                  > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:20
                  > > > > To: anthony.venn-brown@p...
                  > > > > Subject: Re: HI from Anthony
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Anthony,
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I'm still alive, so I guess that's good. I'm just having a
                  hard
                  > > > time coming to terms with my sexuality. It seems so unfair to
                  > have
                  > > > to go through this. I know it in my heart, although I still
                  > cannot
                  > > > personally accept it. And I have been through 9 years of
                  > > counseling.
                  > > > Where else can I turn? God Bless you for your ministry Anthony.
                  > It
                  > > > is so needed in the world today. My parents are deeply
                  > > conservative
                  > > > christians and they see all gays as being sexual perverts. This
                  > is
                  > > > unfortunate because not all of us fit into the stereotypical
                  > > > homosexual mold.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thought Id send you a quick email to say hi and see how
                  things
                  > > > are for you.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Last time we communicated you were going through a very
                  > > difficult
                  > > > time.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Anthony Venn-Brown
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > ---------------------------------
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                  > > > >
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                  > > > >
                  > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  > > > >
                  > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
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                  > > > Service.
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                  > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  > > >
                  > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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                  > > _____
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                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/
                  > >
                  > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                  > > <mailto:Exex-gay-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                  > >
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                  > > Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
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                • Life Coach
                  You’re one of the lucky ones Rolando…….many people get caught up in the ex gay ministries for years….being given a false hope of change. Anthony
                  Message 8 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
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                    You’re one of the lucky ones Rolando…….many people get caught up in the ex gay ministries for years….being given a false hope of change.

                     

                    Anthony

                    Moderator and author of:

                    'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

                    To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

                    My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@...]
                    Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 02:32
                    To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue

                     

                    And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept
                    scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them. But
                    when they hear evidence to prove that being gay is not a choice,
                    that it is the way we are made then they get upset and call the
                    scientific evidence faulty. So hypocritcal in my view. And the right-
                    wing christian community jumps on things like this, and they take
                    out ads in the newspapers claiming that homosexuals have been
                    changed. And what's really funny is they parade these people out
                    there who are in SUCH denial about their true feelings. It sickens
                    me. Here the ex-gay ministries are doing more harm than good. I have
                    been through an ex-gay ministry and I call tell you this much; the
                    people there ARE gay. They're just trying to fight their natural
                    instincts. It's sad. I quit after 7 weeks because I realized that I
                    could not change what I am. I wish they could see that also for
                    themselves.

                    --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                    > Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……people
                    still
                    > belief sexual orientation is a choice.
                    >
                    > They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would
                    ever say
                    > that.
                    >
                    > Anthony
                    > Moderator and author of:
                     

                  • rolando_davidian
                    Well, I figured that I d give it a fair shake since during this time I was extremely unhappy about my sexuality. But I soon learned that the people involved
                    Message 9 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Well, I figured that I'd give it a fair shake since during this time
                      I was extremely unhappy about my sexuality. But I soon learned that
                      the people involved with this were not heterosexual themselves,
                      although they tried to "appear" that way. Not to be funny, but
                      my "gaydar" was going off bigtime. It's hard to sit there and see
                      people suffer knowing that they cannot change. I left after 7 weeks
                      although Tom Cole (the director) begged me over the phone to not
                      quit. I told him I was gay and that I couldn't do anything about it.
                      He disagreed, but I didn't expect anything less from him. And he's a
                      nice guy and sincere in what he is doing, but he's sincerely wrong.
                      So I won't say anything unkind about him, just that he is wrong. Yet
                      it still took me several years after the ex-gay ministry experience
                      to really come to terms with my homosexuality. But I would not
                      change IF I could. I feel that my sexuality has caused me to be more
                      sensitive to people and their problems. And I genuinely love people.
                      So all in all, it was a good experience for me.

                      --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                      > You're one of the lucky ones Rolando…….many people get caught up
                      in the ex
                      > gay ministries for years….being given a false hope of change.
                      >
                      > Anthony
                      > Moderator and author of:
                      > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                      Struggle'
                      > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                      > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                      > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                      > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                      > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                      accepted,
                      > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                      > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 02:32
                      > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue
                      >
                      > And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept
                      > scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them.
                      But
                      > when they hear evidence to prove that being gay is not a choice,
                      > that it is the way we are made then they get upset and call the
                      > scientific evidence faulty. So hypocritcal in my view. And the
                      right-
                      > wing christian community jumps on things like this, and they take
                      > out ads in the newspapers claiming that homosexuals have been
                      > changed. And what's really funny is they parade these people out
                      > there who are in SUCH denial about their true feelings. It sickens
                      > me. Here the ex-gay ministries are doing more harm than good. I
                      have
                      > been through an ex-gay ministry and I call tell you this much; the
                      > people there ARE gay. They're just trying to fight their natural
                      > instincts. It's sad. I quit after 7 weeks because I realized that I
                      > could not change what I am. I wish they could see that also for
                      > themselves.
                      >
                      > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...>
                      wrote:
                      > > Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……
                      people
                      > still
                      > > belief sexual orientation is a choice.
                      > >
                      > > They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would
                      > ever say
                      > > that.
                      > >
                      > > Anthony
                      > > Moderator and author of:
                    • Life Coach
                      Tom Cole eh? Is he still working out of Detroit? There is an excellent book I can recommend to ALL. I’m reading it now for the second time. ‘Anything but
                      Message 10 of 22 , Aug 11, 2004
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                        Tom Cole eh? Is he still working out of Detroit?

                         

                        There is an excellent book I can recommend to ALL. I’m reading it now for the second time.

                         

                        ‘Anything but Straight –Unmasking the scandals and lies behind the exgay myth’ by Wayne Besen.

                         

                        There is nothing like it on the market…….excellent research….and I think ….well written.

                         

                        Anthony

                        Moderator and author of:

                        'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's Struggle'

                        To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here.

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay

                        My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

                         

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@...]
                        Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 09:38
                        To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue

                         

                        Well, I figured that I'd give it a fair shake since during this time
                        I was extremely unhappy about my sexuality. But I soon learned that
                        the people involved with this were not heterosexual themselves,
                        although they tried to "appear" that way. Not to be funny, but
                        my "gaydar" was going off bigtime. It's hard to sit there and see
                        people suffer knowing that they cannot change. I left after 7 weeks
                        although Tom Cole (the director) begged me over the phone to not
                        quit. I told him I was gay and that I couldn't do anything about it.
                        He disagreed, but I didn't expect anything less from him. And he's a
                        nice guy and sincere in what he is doing, but he's sincerely wrong.
                        So I won't say anything unkind about him, just that he is wrong. Yet
                        it still took me several years after the ex-gay ministry experience
                        to really come to terms with my homosexuality. But I would not
                        change IF I could. I feel that my sexuality has caused me to be more
                        sensitive to people and their problems. And I genuinely love people.
                        So all in all, it was a good experience for me.

                        --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:

                        > You're one of the lucky ones Rolando…….many people get caught up
                        in the ex
                        > gay ministries for years….being given a false hope of change.
                        >
                        > Anthony
                        > Moderator and author of:
                        > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                        Struggle'
                        > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                        > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html>
                        .
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                        > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                        > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                        accepted,
                        > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                        > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 02:32
                        > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue
                        >
                        > And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept
                        > scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them.
                        But
                        > when they hear evidence to prove that being gay is not a choice,
                        > that it is the way we are made then they get upset and call the
                        > scientific evidence faulty. So hypocritcal in my view. And the
                        right-
                        > wing christian community jumps on things like this, and they take
                        > out ads in the newspapers claiming that homosexuals have been
                        > changed. And what's really funny is they parade these people out
                        > there who are in SUCH denial about their true feelings. It sickens
                        > me. Here the ex-gay ministries are doing more harm than good. I
                        have
                        > been through an ex-gay ministry and I call tell you this much; the
                        > people there ARE gay. They're just trying to fight their natural
                        > instincts. It's sad. I quit after 7 weeks because I realized that I
                        > could not change what I am. I wish they could see that also for
                        > themselves.
                        >
                        > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach"
                        <lifecoach@m...>
                        wrote:
                        > > Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……
                        people
                        > still
                        > > belief sexual orientation is a choice.
                        > >
                        > > They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would
                        > ever say
                        > > that.
                        > >
                        > > Anthony
                        > > Moderator and author of:



                      • rolando_davidian
                        Not sure if he is still working in Detroit. I know he was living in Port Huron at that time. It was called Detroit Reconciliation Ministries when I was in it.
                        Message 11 of 22 , Aug 12, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Not sure if he is still working in Detroit. I know he was living in
                          Port Huron at that time. It was called Detroit Reconciliation
                          Ministries when I was in it. They followed the Desert Stream
                          Ministries' guideline format. Andy Comiskey is who started that I
                          believe.


                          --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...> wrote:
                          > Tom Cole eh? Is he still working out of Detroit?
                          >
                          > There is an excellent book I can recommend to ALL. I'm reading it
                          now for
                          > the second time.
                          >
                          > `Anything but Straight –Unmasking the scandals and lies behind the
                          exgay
                          > myth' by Wayne Besen.
                          >
                          > There is nothing like it on the market…….excellent research….and I
                          > think ….well written.
                          >
                          > Anthony
                          > Moderator and author of:
                          > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                          Struggle'
                          > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                          > <http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                          > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
                          > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                          accepted,
                          > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                          > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 09:38
                          > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue
                          >
                          > Well, I figured that I'd give it a fair shake since during this
                          time
                          > I was extremely unhappy about my sexuality. But I soon learned that
                          > the people involved with this were not heterosexual themselves,
                          > although they tried to "appear" that way. Not to be funny, but
                          > my "gaydar" was going off bigtime. It's hard to sit there and see
                          > people suffer knowing that they cannot change. I left after 7 weeks
                          > although Tom Cole (the director) begged me over the phone to not
                          > quit. I told him I was gay and that I couldn't do anything about
                          it.
                          > He disagreed, but I didn't expect anything less from him. And he's
                          a
                          > nice guy and sincere in what he is doing, but he's sincerely wrong.
                          > So I won't say anything unkind about him, just that he is wrong.
                          Yet
                          > it still took me several years after the ex-gay ministry experience
                          > to really come to terms with my homosexuality. But I would not
                          > change IF I could. I feel that my sexuality has caused me to be
                          more
                          > sensitive to people and their problems. And I genuinely love
                          people.
                          > So all in all, it was a good experience for me.
                          >
                          > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...>
                          wrote:
                          > > You're one of the lucky ones Rolando…….many people get caught up
                          > in the ex
                          > > gay ministries for years….being given a false hope of change.
                          > >
                          > > Anthony
                          > > Moderator and author of:
                          > > 'A Life of Unlearning -Coming Out of the Church - One Man's
                          > Struggle'
                          > > To download Chapter 1 'The Confession' FREE click here
                          > > < http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html> .
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
                          > > < http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay/>
                          > > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to
                          be
                          > > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be
                          > accepted,
                          > > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
                          > >
                          > > -----Original Message-----
                          > > From: rolando_davidian [mailto:rolando_davidian@y...]
                          > > Sent: Thursday, 12 August 2004 02:32
                          > > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: the sex issue
                          > >
                          > > And you know something else, Anthony? So many people will accept
                          > > scientific evidence as truth when the issue involved suits them.
                          > But
                          > > when they hear evidence to prove that being gay is not a choice,
                          > > that it is the way we are made then they get upset and call the
                          > > scientific evidence faulty. So hypocritcal in my view. And the
                          > right-
                          > > wing christian community jumps on things like this, and they take
                          > > out ads in the newspapers claiming that homosexuals have been
                          > > changed. And what's really funny is they parade these people out
                          > > there who are in SUCH denial about their true feelings. It
                          sickens
                          > > me. Here the ex-gay ministries are doing more harm than good. I
                          > have
                          > > been through an ex-gay ministry and I call tell you this much;
                          the
                          > > people there ARE gay. They're just trying to fight their natural
                          > > instincts. It's sad. I quit after 7 weeks because I realized
                          that I
                          > > could not change what I am. I wish they could see that also for
                          > > themselves.
                          > >
                          > > --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Life Coach" <lifecoach@m...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > Its ridiculous that in this day…..despite all the evidence……
                          > people
                          > > still
                          > > > belief sexual orientation is a choice.
                          > > >
                          > > > They are just displaying their ignorance………no homosexual would
                          > > ever say
                          > > > that.
                          > > >
                          > > > Anthony
                          > > > Moderator and author of:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                          > ADVERTISEMENT
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