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Missouri Loners

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  • sword_4_hire3
    I needed to test for something I am working on, so I decided to analyze a Missouri Loner. I never heard of the term till reading an article on this site. I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 4, 2006
      I needed to test for something I am working on, so I decided to
      analyze a Missouri Loner. I never heard of the term till reading an
      article on this site. I have seen the hand before and it was a
      curiosity to me.

      I read a definition stating a Missouri Loner is one in which a player
      attempts to go alone with no bowers. I will take the liberty of
      refining the definition as a player who does not know the location of
      either bower and has 5 trump or 4 trump and an offsuit ace.

      Anyways… this is what I found.

      Scenerio #1
      Dealer (4th seat) has A K Q 10 of Diamonds, 9 of Clubs and the Hole
      card is the 9 of Diamonds. Any hand that a player in 1st, 2nd or 3rd
      seat ordered the hole card in the 1st round was ignored. (An event
      that happened rarely)

      Result of hands where 4th seat went alone
      42 loners
      258 single points
      Total 426 points

      Result of hands where 4th seat took his partner
      69 marches
      231 single points
      Total 369 points

      Practical application (Translated into English) assuming dealer opts
      for a loner:
      Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference

      Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 6 % more games
      Dealer score 8-8 – dealer will lose 3 % more games
      Dealer score 8-7,8-6,8-5,8-4,… – dealer will lose 0-2 % more games

      Dealer score 6-9, 7-9 – dealer will win 9% more games
      Dealer score 7-8 – dealer will win 3% more games
      Dealer score 6-8 – dealer will win 7% more games
      Dealer score 6-7,5-7,5-8 – dealer will win 4% more games

      Any other score – dealer will win 0-2 % more games


      Scenerio #2
      2nd Seat has A K Q 10 of Diamonds, Ace of Clubs and the Hole card is
      the 9 of Diamonds. Any hand that a player in 1st seat ordered the
      hole card in the 1st round was ignored. (An event that happened
      rarely)

      Result of hands where 2nd seat went alone
      54 loners
      246 single points
      Total 462 points

      Result of hands where 2nd seat took his partner
      96 marches
      204 single points
      Total 396 points

      Practical application (Translated into English) assuming dealer opts
      for a loner:
      Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference

      Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 10 % more games
      Dealer score 8-8 – dealer will lose 5 % more games
      Dealer score 8-7 – dealer will lose 3 % more games
      Dealer score 8-<6 – dealer will lose 0-2 % more games

      Dealer score 6-9, 7-9 – dealer will win 11-12% more games
      Dealer score 7-8 – dealer will win 3% more games
      Dealer score 6-8 – dealer will win 8% more games
      Dealer score 6-6,6-7,5-7,5-8 – dealer will win 4% more games

      Any other score – dealer will win 0-3 % more games
    • Natty Bumppo
      Very interesting, and congratualations on making the first post of the year on Euchre Science. But why bother to report the successes and failures of a
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 5, 2006
        Very interesting, and congratualations on making the first post of the
        year on Euchre Science.

        But why bother to report the successes and failures of a "Missouri
        loner" at scores including 8 and 9 points for the maker? Anyone who
        called a "Missouri loner" at 8 or 9 points would be shot, and probably
        by all three other players.

        "sword_4_hire3" <fastfredy0@y...> wrote:

        > I needed to test for something I am working on, so I decided to
        > analyze a Missouri Loner. . . .
        >
        > Scenerio #1 . . . .
        >
        > Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference
        > Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 6% more games
        > Dealer score 8-8 – dealer will lose 3% more games
        > Dealer score 8-7,8-6,8-5,8-4 – dealer will lose 0-2% more games ...
        >
        > Scenerio #2 . . . .
        >
        > Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference
        > Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 10% more games
        > Dealer score 8-8 – dealer will lose 5% more games
        > Dealer score 8-7 – dealer will lose 3% more games
        > Dealer score 8-6 – dealer will lose 0-2% more games . . . .
      • Sword_4_hire
        Question: Why bother to report the successes and failures of a Missouri loner at scores including 8 and 9 points for the maker? Answer: To have a complete
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 5, 2006
          Question:
          Why bother to report the successes and failures of a "Missouri
          loner" at scores including 8 and 9 points for the maker? 
           
          Answer: 
          To have a complete answer one should address all scenarios.  Also, a program generated the results.  Results consistent with sensible reasoning help reinforce confidence in the method.  Finally, some things are more obvious to some people than they are to other people and once in a while I get a surprise.
           
          First Post of the year ... I am the new 'kid' on the block .. hope I win something. :o)


          Natty Bumppo <borf@...> wrote:
          Very interesting, and congratualations on making the first post of the
          year on Euchre Science.

          But why bother to report the successes and failures of a "Missouri
          loner" at scores including 8 and 9 points for the maker?  Anyone who
          called a "Missouri loner" at 8 or 9 points would be shot, and probably
          by all three other players.

          "sword_4_hire3" <fastfredy0@y...> wrote:

          > I needed to test for something I am working on, so I decided to
          > analyze a Missouri Loner. . . .
          >
          > Scenerio #1 . . . .
          >
          > Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference
          > Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 6% more games
          > Dealer score 8-8 –  dealer will lose 3% more games
          > Dealer score 8-7,8-6,8-5,8-4 –  dealer will lose 0-2% more games ...
          >
          > Scenerio #2 . . . .
          >
          > Dealer has 9 pts. – no difference
          > Dealer score 8-9 – dealer will lose 10% more games
          > Dealer score 8-8 – dealer will lose 5% more games
          > Dealer score 8-7 – dealer will lose 3% more games
          > Dealer score 8-6 – dealer will lose 0-2% more games . . . .





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        • Gerry Blue
          17 other euchreheads have subscribed since you did. You re part of the landscape and not a new kid anymore. Your next loner is on me. Congratulations! Gerry
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 5, 2006

            17 other euchreheads have subscribed since you did.  You're part of the landscape and not a new kid anymore.  Your next loner is on me.  Congratulations!

            Gerry


            --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, Sword_4_hire <fastfredy0@y...> wrote:
            > First Post of the year ... I am the new 'kid' on the block .. hope I win something.

          • david cejmer
            sure this is a good poll, and sure you would be shot, but there are scenarios, rare, but they do occur, where u need to go alone, so your partner doesnt end up
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 6, 2006
              sure this is a good poll, and sure you would be shot, but there are scenarios, rare, but they do occur, where u need to go alone, so your partner doesnt end up with the lead, and chance you not getting all 5 tricks, if i may add though its normally a good thing to have a sure 3 tricks, and i wouldnt try this on 9, its simply unsportsmanlike, but as far as having 8, well there are the few and far between times where u have to go alone on 8 to end it, taking ur p only risks giving away a trick




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            • Patricia
              A few days ago I went alone on 8 in Mystic. I was told We do not do that in Mystic. I said, I don t care what you do in Mystic, taking my p along with my
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 7, 2006
                A few days ago I went alone on 8 in Mystic. I was told "We do not do
                that in Mystic." I said, "I don't care what you do in Mystic, taking
                my p along with my hand could cost us a point." I'm sorry that I
                can't share my hand with you at this time but I simply don't
                remember it; I wasn't intending on writing about it. The person
                speaking with me said he understood but that they still don't do
                it. Tough!

                Patricia...

                --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, david cejmer <cdavid469@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                > sure this is a good poll, and sure you would be shot, but there
                are scenarios, rare, but they do occur, where u need to go alone, so
                your partner doesnt end up with the lead, and chance you not getting
                all 5 tricks, if i may add though its normally a good thing to have
                a sure 3 tricks, and i wouldnt try this on 9, its simply
                unsportsmanlike, but as far as having 8, well there are the few and
                far between times where u have to go alone on 8 to end it, taking ur
                p only risks giving away a trick
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Photos
                > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in
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                >
              • Natty Bumppo
                ... Understood. But we were talking about going alone without either bower. Show us a scenario, please, in which it makes sense to call a MISSOURI loner at
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 7, 2006
                  david cejmer <cdavid469@y...> wrote:

                  > . . . but there are scenarios, rare, but they do occur, where u
                  > need to go alone, so your partner doesnt end up with the lead, and
                  > chance you not getting all 5 tricks . . . i wouldnt try this on 9,
                  > its simply unsportsmanlike, but as far as having 8, well there are
                  > the few and far between times where u have to go alone on 8 to end
                  > it, taking ur p only risks giving away a trick

                  Understood. But we were talking about going alone without either bower.
                  Show us a scenario, please, in which it makes sense to call a
                  "MISSOURI loner" at 8 points.
                • Todd
                  Scenario: Hands raised in triumph! Not meaning to stir things up here, but, I personally don t have a problem with opponent going alone with 8 or 9
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 7, 2006
                    Scenario: Hands raised in triumph!

                    Not meaning to stir things up here, but, I personally don't
                    have a problem with opponent going alone with 8 or 9 points(Boner
                    Loner). I actually find it kind of humurous knowing that some think
                    it is unsportsmanlike. Go for it. Congratulations there. Nice hand.
                    I'm not going to sit and dwell about how cruel and mean they were.
                    Who's going to remember which scenario more? He who was gone alone
                    on with 8/9 points or He who made the loner to WIN the game.
                    Especially a "Missouri loner". It's over. Deal the cards. New game.
                    Euchre at it's best.

                    "The Game of Life" (minimized), John Godfrey Saxe
                    I think I may venture to go it alone!
                    The winner is he who can go it alone!
                    For he knew, like the earth, he could go it alone!
                    For he felt in his heart he could go it alone!
                    That his crutches have left him to go it alone!
                    Unless you've the courage to go it alone!
                    The victor is he who can go it alone!




                    --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, "Natty Bumppo" <borf@b...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > david cejmer <cdavid469@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > . . . but there are scenarios, rare, but they do occur, where u
                    > > need to go alone, so your partner doesnt end up with the lead,
                    and
                    > > chance you not getting all 5 tricks . . . i wouldnt try this on
                    9,
                    > > its simply unsportsmanlike, but as far as having 8, well there
                    are
                    > > the few and far between times where u have to go alone on 8 to
                    end
                    > > it, taking ur p only risks giving away a trick
                    >
                    > Understood. But we were talking about going alone without either
                    bower.
                    > Show us a scenario, please, in which it makes sense to call a
                    > "MISSOURI loner" at 8 points.
                    >
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