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Re: Psychology of Euchre

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  • pimped_her_out
    Ed, you coming to Yahoo! social 20 for a few games today? ... don t ... what ... euchre and ... should be ... to see ... in the ... first ... adjustments that
    Message 1 of 52 , Mar 1, 2009
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      Ed, you coming to Yahoo! social 20 for a few games today?

      --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <tbolt_65@...> wrote:
      >
      > It really don't matter sunglasses or not, indecision, or decision is a
      > big tell, along with the way you place your cards and how you hold em.
      >
      >
      > It is why I always hold em' with my left hand and ever move em.
      >
      > Ed
      >
      > --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, Aimee Cakes <AIMEECAKES@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm wearing sunglasses if I ever play live w/you.
      > >
      > > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Todd <jtmwingnut@> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Todd <jtmwingnut@>
      > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
      > > To: EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 10:33 PM
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > When playing live euchre, I pause the most at 1st chair, and I
      don't
      > >
      > > care what others see into my pausing. 1st chair is a very important
      > >
      > > position at a euchre table. Can I make trump, do I have a stopper,
      what
      > >
      > > do I have in next, how can I lead for the best chances for a
      euchre and
      > >
      > > most importantly do I want to donate?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 2nd chair, I'm lookin at 1st chairs reaction to his cards while
      > >
      > > lookin at mine. Playing at the level we should be playing there should
      > >
      > > be no pauses. Don't kill your partners loner is the only thing I'm
      > >
      > > pondering on.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 3rd chair, I'm looking mostly at others reactions to their cards
      > >
      > > because I know I have to have a really strong hand to order or I'm
      > >
      > > passing.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 4th chair, I don't even look at my cards until it's my turn because
      > >
      > > if any smart opponent sees any reaction from me in any form he
      should be
      > >
      > > leery and think of donating. I'm watching the others expressions
      to see
      > >
      > > what info I can pick up on. This chair, I think, is where the player
      > >
      > > must not give any clue of his hand whatsoever before the first three
      > >
      > > players have decided on their own hand.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I probably pause more than I should in the second round. Why is that?
      > >
      > > I've tried in each seat in the first round to decide what I'll do
      in the
      > >
      > > second round. Is the second round more of a gambling call than the
      first
      > >
      > > round call? Second round, 2nd chair calls are my own worst nightmares.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Kien Tran <sithlord78@ ...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > It's funny how easily this group falls into diatribe.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > When I think of 'psychology' I wasn't thinking of the
      adjustments that
      > >
      > > pimp made earlier. Very good list I think. But I was hoping for more
      > >
      > > intelligence cues when playing against live players.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > What we've forgotten with all the internet euchre we play is that
      > >
      > > cards used to be played with live people around us. So psychology
      to me
      > >
      > > means more the tells and clues that you get from watching your
      opponent.
      > >
      > > Kinda like a poker player would.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > The same rules would apply. A person's body functions change
      when you
      > >
      > > add adrenaline so it makes them act different.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > An amazing tell that I see lots of new players do is when they
      pause,
      > >
      > > think, and then lay off. GIVE AWAY!!!! This guy has the left!
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Poker players also know not to pick up your cards until it's their
      > >
      > > turn to act. Looking at your cards ahead of time gives others info on
      > >
      > > what your hand is. Don't believe me? Think about how you act
      when you
      > >
      > > have the loner? Think about how you act when you have all 9s and 10s?
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > We cannot escape the human condition. The computer just gives us a
      > >
      > > good mask. I think this is what we should talk about when we talk
      > >
      > > psychology of euchre.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Kien
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Todd jtmwingnut@ .. wrote:
      > >
      > > > From: Todd jtmwingnut@ ..
      > >
      > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
      > >
      > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
      > >
      > > > Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:33 PM
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > After thinking on this a bit, I wondered how you came up with
      95% will
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > improve their game by not donating. I admit, that donating doesn't
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > always produce positive results. Most calls are not 95%
      productive, or
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > whatever number you want to use.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > If done correctly, by the standards in your book, most donations, in
      > >
      > > my
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > opinion slightly outweigh not donating. Loners kill. Lone hands
      are a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > large part of the game. Being able to read your hand,
      determining you
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > have nothing, not seeing yourself taking a trick and not being
      able to
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > make a second round call pretty much wrap up when to donate in my
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > opinion. It was your chapter on donations that prompted me to donate
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > MORE under the circumstances you gave 0n when to donate.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > It may be difficult to prove or disprove, but not impossible as
      > >
      > > compared
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > to any other strategy used.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Donating compared to a lottery ticket? I don't play the lottery,
      but I
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > do donate with crap hands. If I knew the odds of playing the lottery
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > were as good as donating with certain crap hands, I would play the
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > lottery.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > I'm not a math guy, nor do I use the Euchre Challenge software
      to it's
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > capabilities. But I have a hunch, just as some may call a donation,
      > >
      > > that
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > the results, when done correctly will show postive results.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Fred Benjamin <fastfredy0@
      > >
      > > ...>
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Well, I don't have a quantitative measurement to substantiate my
      > >
      > > claim
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > that "95% of players will improve there game if they never donate."
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > It is my opinion based on observation of people's play and
      given, in
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > my opinion, the minimal advantage to donating when done correctly.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > My statement would be very difficult to prove (or disprove).
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Sorry.... I can't make you a believer.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > The good thing about a donation is... it can be a lot of fun
      ... so,
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > that may be all the justification you need ... like a lottery
      ticket.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > From: Todd jtmwingnut@ ..
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:30:09 AM
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > "95% of players will improve there game if they never donate."
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Can we zoom in on this statement?
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Make me a believer.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Fred Benjamin <fastfredy0@
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > ...>
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > I disagree with you Pimp for a change on #6.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > The main advantage of donating from the 1st seat is the
      knowledge
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > that
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > the 1st seat knows what he will bid if the dealer passes. The 3rd
      > >
      > > also
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > knows what he will do if the dealer passes and the 1st and 2nd
      seat
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > pass
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > twice. Since the chances of the 3rd seat actually getting a
      2nd bid
      > >
      > > is
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > much smaller than that of 1st seat getting 2 bids ... it is better
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > that
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > the first seat does the donation.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Given the small advantage to donating from the 1st seat in ideal
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > situations, this additional 3rd seat donation disadvantage as
      stated
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > above makes donating from the 3rd seat a poor choice in my
      opinion.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > 95% of players will improve there game if they never donate, I
      > >
      > > would
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > guess 100% of players would improve their game if they never
      donated
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > from the 3rd seat in my opinion.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Gee, I think that is twice in a year or so we have disagreed
      Pimp
      > >
      > > ..
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > what's happening to our relationship? Perhaps we should seek
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > consulting?
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > I do agree with your other points. But, I think solid
      examples of
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > where one would actually change ones bids are few (except if
      you are
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > playing with a player with very unusual tendencies ... and we all
      > >
      > > have
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > seen them on occasion.)
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > S
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > From: pimped_her_out torturedoutlaw@ ...
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:23:42 PM
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Yeah, it's something I'm reluctant to do but at 9-6 or 9-7
      up with
      > >
      > > a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > bower up and staring at a fist full of 9s and 10s you have to do
      > >
      > > it.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "Ed" tbolt_65@ .> wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > As for Me I agree with #6.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > If your partner show's no signs after play several games of
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > donating
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > in situations and his/her hands clear show you need to donate,
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > then
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > yes you have to after all the information has been taken into
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > account
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > start to donate in 3rd seat.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > Ed
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "bananastew"
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > <bookcasedust@
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "pimped_her_ out"
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > <torturedoutlaw@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > I know it ain't psychology (or even science) but here
      are a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > few
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > examples of how you can adapt your game depending on your
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > partner's
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > and opponent's tendencies. The first step is knowing what
      > >
      > > they
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > are
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > thinking and doing, the next step is knowing how to
      exploit
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > that
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > information to your own advantage.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 1. Your partner is aggressive and orders you up on
      your deal
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > regularly
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > with weak hands. Correct Adaptation: Be less willing
      to pick
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > up
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > with
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > marginal hands if he passes.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 2. Your partner seems to be passive and passes on your
      deal
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > with
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > some
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > hands that you think he should order with. Correct
      > >
      > > Adaptation:
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > Be
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > willing to pick up on your deal with marginal hands
      that you
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > may
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > have
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > normally passed.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 3. Your partner routinely calls "next" in 1st seat
      after the
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > dealer
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > passes. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to pass with a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > strong
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > hand in 3rd seat.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 4. Your partner very rarely calls "next" in 1st seat
      unless
      > >
      > > he
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > has a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > strong hand. Correct Adaptation: Be slightly more
      willing to
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > order up
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > in 3rd seat.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 5. Your partner orders up from 3rd seat with marginal
      hands
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > when
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > he
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > shouldn't. Correct Adaptation: be less willing to call
      > >
      > > "next"
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > if
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > the
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > dealer passes.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 5. Your partner always donates from 1st seat if he has no
      > >
      > > sure
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > stopper
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > and the score is 9-6 or 9-7. Correct Adaptation: Be
      willing
      > >
      > > to
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > order
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > from 3rd seat with a marginal hand if your partner
      passes at
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > these
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > scores.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 6. Your partner never donates under any circumstance.
      > >
      > > Correct
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > Adaptation: Be willing to donate from 3rd seat at some
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > scorelines if
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > your hand is complete trash.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > # 6 I strongly disagree. There are enough assholes playing
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > euchre
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > already. Only too often I have seen 3rd seat donates by
      > >
      > > players
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > who
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > partner's playing record indicate far superior play than the
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > player
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > donating, or who's record would be better if it were not for
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > asshole
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > partners who selfishly play as if they are a cats meow.
      Those
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > who
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > donate from 3rd should stick to playing games where
      > >
      > > selfishness
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > is
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > acceptable. Compete as an individual. If you don't like your
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > partners
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > skills, get another! Don't become an asshole.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > Third seat donate with me as partner, and a growing
      number of
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > others,
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > and your chance of going away with a victory will drop
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > substantially, if
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > you know what I mean.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > 7. Your opponent to your left very rarely passes his deal.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > Correct
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > Adaptation: Never order up from 3rd seat unless you have a
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > loner.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 8. Your opponent to your left often orders up his partner
      > >
      > > with
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > very
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > marginal hands. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to
      lead
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > trump in
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > defense.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 9. Your opponents are overly aggressive and order you up
      > >
      > > with
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > hands
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > they shouldn't. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to
      pick
      > >
      > > up
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > your
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > deal with marginal hands and even try some risky
      loners with
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > hands
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > which have marginal trump strength but good offsuit
      support.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > 10. Your opponents seem timid and passive and are passing
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > hands
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > that
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > they shouldn't be. Correct Adaptations: Do not try and
      > >
      > > sandbag
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > them.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > You have to do your own bidding against these types of
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > players.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > Also,
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > > be less willing to go "next" or donate.
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Ed
      sorry I didnt see this until just now, it s monday night . Ed -- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, pimped_her_out ... em. ... should ... because ... that?
      Message 52 of 52 , Mar 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        sorry I didnt see this until just now, it's monday night .


        Ed
        -- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, "pimped_her_out"
        <torturedoutlaw@...> wrote:
        >
        > Ed, you coming to Yahoo! social 20 for a few games today?
        >
        > --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, "Ed" <tbolt_65@> wrote:
        > >
        > > It really don't matter sunglasses or not, indecision, or decision is a
        > > big tell, along with the way you place your cards and how you hold
        em.
        > >
        > >
        > > It is why I always hold em' with my left hand and ever move em.
        > >
        > > Ed
        > >
        > > --- In EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com, Aimee Cakes <AIMEECAKES@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I'm wearing sunglasses if I ever play live w/you.
        > > >
        > > > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Todd <jtmwingnut@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > From: Todd <jtmwingnut@>
        > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
        > > > To: EuchreScience@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 10:33 PM
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > When playing live euchre, I pause the most at 1st chair, and I
        > don't
        > > >
        > > > care what others see into my pausing. 1st chair is a very important
        > > >
        > > > position at a euchre table. Can I make trump, do I have a stopper,
        > what
        > > >
        > > > do I have in next, how can I lead for the best chances for a
        > euchre and
        > > >
        > > > most importantly do I want to donate?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At 2nd chair, I'm lookin at 1st chairs reaction to his cards while
        > > >
        > > > lookin at mine. Playing at the level we should be playing there
        should
        > > >
        > > > be no pauses. Don't kill your partners loner is the only thing I'm
        > > >
        > > > pondering on.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At 3rd chair, I'm looking mostly at others reactions to their cards
        > > >
        > > > because I know I have to have a really strong hand to order or I'm
        > > >
        > > > passing.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At 4th chair, I don't even look at my cards until it's my turn
        because
        > > >
        > > > if any smart opponent sees any reaction from me in any form he
        > should be
        > > >
        > > > leery and think of donating. I'm watching the others expressions
        > to see
        > > >
        > > > what info I can pick up on. This chair, I think, is where the player
        > > >
        > > > must not give any clue of his hand whatsoever before the first three
        > > >
        > > > players have decided on their own hand.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I probably pause more than I should in the second round. Why is
        that?
        > > >
        > > > I've tried in each seat in the first round to decide what I'll do
        > in the
        > > >
        > > > second round. Is the second round more of a gambling call than the
        > first
        > > >
        > > > round call? Second round, 2nd chair calls are my own worst
        nightmares.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Kien Tran <sithlord78@ ...>
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > It's funny how easily this group falls into diatribe.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > When I think of 'psychology' I wasn't thinking of the
        > adjustments that
        > > >
        > > > pimp made earlier. Very good list I think. But I was hoping
        for more
        > > >
        > > > intelligence cues when playing against live players.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > What we've forgotten with all the internet euchre we play is that
        > > >
        > > > cards used to be played with live people around us. So psychology
        > to me
        > > >
        > > > means more the tells and clues that you get from watching your
        > opponent.
        > > >
        > > > Kinda like a poker player would.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > The same rules would apply. A person's body functions change
        > when you
        > > >
        > > > add adrenaline so it makes them act different.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > An amazing tell that I see lots of new players do is when they
        > pause,
        > > >
        > > > think, and then lay off. GIVE AWAY!!!! This guy has the left!
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Poker players also know not to pick up your cards until it's their
        > > >
        > > > turn to act. Looking at your cards ahead of time gives others
        info on
        > > >
        > > > what your hand is. Don't believe me? Think about how you act
        > when you
        > > >
        > > > have the loner? Think about how you act when you have all 9s
        and 10s?
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > We cannot escape the human condition. The computer just gives
        us a
        > > >
        > > > good mask. I think this is what we should talk about when we talk
        > > >
        > > > psychology of euchre.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Kien
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Todd jtmwingnut@ .. wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > From: Todd jtmwingnut@ ..
        > > >
        > > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
        > > >
        > > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
        > > >
        > > > > Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:33 PM
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > After thinking on this a bit, I wondered how you came up with
        > 95% will
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > improve their game by not donating. I admit, that donating doesn't
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > always produce positive results. Most calls are not 95%
        > productive, or
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > whatever number you want to use.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > If done correctly, by the standards in your book, most
        donations, in
        > > >
        > > > my
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > opinion slightly outweigh not donating. Loners kill. Lone hands
        > are a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > large part of the game. Being able to read your hand,
        > determining you
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > have nothing, not seeing yourself taking a trick and not being
        > able to
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > make a second round call pretty much wrap up when to donate in my
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > opinion. It was your chapter on donations that prompted me to
        donate
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > MORE under the circumstances you gave 0n when to donate.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > It may be difficult to prove or disprove, but not impossible as
        > > >
        > > > compared
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > to any other strategy used.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Donating compared to a lottery ticket? I don't play the lottery,
        > but I
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > do donate with crap hands. If I knew the odds of playing the
        lottery
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > were as good as donating with certain crap hands, I would play the
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > lottery.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I'm not a math guy, nor do I use the Euchre Challenge software
        > to it's
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > capabilities. But I have a hunch, just as some may call a
        donation,
        > > >
        > > > that
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > the results, when done correctly will show postive results.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Fred Benjamin <fastfredy0@
        > > >
        > > > ...>
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Well, I don't have a quantitative measurement to substantiate my
        > > >
        > > > claim
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > that "95% of players will improve there game if they never
        donate."
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > It is my opinion based on observation of people's play and
        > given, in
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > my opinion, the minimal advantage to donating when done correctly.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > My statement would be very difficult to prove (or disprove).
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Sorry.... I can't make you a believer.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > The good thing about a donation is... it can be a lot of fun
        > ... so,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > that may be all the justification you need ... like a lottery
        > ticket.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > From: Todd jtmwingnut@ ..
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 4:30:09 AM
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > "95% of players will improve there game if they never donate."
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Can we zoom in on this statement?
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Make me a believer.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, Fred Benjamin
        <fastfredy0@
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > ...>
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > I disagree with you Pimp for a change on #6.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > The main advantage of donating from the 1st seat is the
        > knowledge
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > that
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > the 1st seat knows what he will bid if the dealer passes.
        The 3rd
        > > >
        > > > also
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > knows what he will do if the dealer passes and the 1st and 2nd
        > seat
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > pass
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > twice. Since the chances of the 3rd seat actually getting a
        > 2nd bid
        > > >
        > > > is
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > much smaller than that of 1st seat getting 2 bids ... it is
        better
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > that
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > the first seat does the donation.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Given the small advantage to donating from the 1st seat in
        ideal
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > situations, this additional 3rd seat donation disadvantage as
        > stated
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > above makes donating from the 3rd seat a poor choice in my
        > opinion.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > 95% of players will improve there game if they never donate, I
        > > >
        > > > would
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > guess 100% of players would improve their game if they never
        > donated
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > from the 3rd seat in my opinion.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Gee, I think that is twice in a year or so we have disagreed
        > Pimp
        > > >
        > > > ..
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > what's happening to our relationship? Perhaps we should seek
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > consulting?
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > I do agree with your other points. But, I think solid
        > examples of
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > where one would actually change ones bids are few (except if
        > you are
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > playing with a player with very unusual tendencies ... and
        we all
        > > >
        > > > have
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > seen them on occasion.)
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > S
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > From: pimped_her_out torturedoutlaw@ ...
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > To: EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 2:23:42 PM
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Subject: [EuchreScience] Re: Psychology of Euchre
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Yeah, it's something I'm reluctant to do but at 9-6 or 9-7
        > up with
        > > >
        > > > a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > bower up and staring at a fist full of 9s and 10s you have
        to do
        > > >
        > > > it.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "Ed" tbolt_65@ .>
        wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > As for Me I agree with #6.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > If your partner show's no signs after play several games of
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > donating
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > in situations and his/her hands clear show you need to
        donate,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > then
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > yes you have to after all the information has been taken
        into
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > account
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > start to donate in 3rd seat.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > Ed
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "bananastew"
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > <bookcasedust@
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In EuchreScience@ yahoogroups. com, "pimped_her_ out"
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > <torturedoutlaw@ > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I know it ain't psychology (or even science) but here
        > are a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > few
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > examples of how you can adapt your game depending on
        your
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > partner's
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > and opponent's tendencies. The first step is knowing
        what
        > > >
        > > > they
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > are
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > thinking and doing, the next step is knowing how to
        > exploit
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > that
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > information to your own advantage.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 1. Your partner is aggressive and orders you up on
        > your deal
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > regularly
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > with weak hands. Correct Adaptation: Be less willing
        > to pick
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > up
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > with
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > marginal hands if he passes.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 2. Your partner seems to be passive and passes on your
        > deal
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > with
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > some
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > hands that you think he should order with. Correct
        > > >
        > > > Adaptation:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > Be
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > willing to pick up on your deal with marginal hands
        > that you
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > may
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > have
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > normally passed.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 3. Your partner routinely calls "next" in 1st seat
        > after the
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > dealer
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > passes. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to pass
        with a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > strong
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > hand in 3rd seat.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 4. Your partner very rarely calls "next" in 1st seat
        > unless
        > > >
        > > > he
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > has a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > strong hand. Correct Adaptation: Be slightly more
        > willing to
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > order up
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > in 3rd seat.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 5. Your partner orders up from 3rd seat with marginal
        > hands
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > when
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > he
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > shouldn't. Correct Adaptation: be less willing to call
        > > >
        > > > "next"
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > if
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > the
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > dealer passes.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 5. Your partner always donates from 1st seat if he
        has no
        > > >
        > > > sure
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > stopper
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > and the score is 9-6 or 9-7. Correct Adaptation: Be
        > willing
        > > >
        > > > to
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > order
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > from 3rd seat with a marginal hand if your partner
        > passes at
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > these
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > scores.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 6. Your partner never donates under any circumstance.
        > > >
        > > > Correct
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Adaptation: Be willing to donate from 3rd seat at some
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > scorelines if
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > your hand is complete trash.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > # 6 I strongly disagree. There are enough assholes playing
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > euchre
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > already. Only too often I have seen 3rd seat donates by
        > > >
        > > > players
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > who
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > partner's playing record indicate far superior play
        than the
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > player
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > donating, or who's record would be better if it were
        not for
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > asshole
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > partners who selfishly play as if they are a cats meow.
        > Those
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > who
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > donate from 3rd should stick to playing games where
        > > >
        > > > selfishness
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > is
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > acceptable. Compete as an individual. If you don't
        like your
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > partners
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > skills, get another! Don't become an asshole.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > Third seat donate with me as partner, and a growing
        > number of
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > others,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > and your chance of going away with a victory will drop
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > substantially, if
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > you know what I mean.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > 7. Your opponent to your left very rarely passes his deal.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Correct
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Adaptation: Never order up from 3rd seat unless you
        have a
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > loner.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 8. Your opponent to your left often orders up his
        partner
        > > >
        > > > with
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > very
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > marginal hands. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to
        > lead
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > trump in
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > defense.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 9. Your opponents are overly aggressive and order you up
        > > >
        > > > with
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > hands
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > they shouldn't. Correct Adaptation: Be more willing to
        > pick
        > > >
        > > > up
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > your
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > deal with marginal hands and even try some risky
        > loners with
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > hands
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > which have marginal trump strength but good offsuit
        > support.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > 10. Your opponents seem timid and passive and are
        passing
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > hands
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > that
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > they shouldn't be. Correct Adaptations: Do not try and
        > > >
        > > > sandbag
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > them.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > You have to do your own bidding against these types of
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > players.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > Also,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > be less willing to go "next" or donate.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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