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The New WiccanTrad: Blending Wicca with Christianity

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  • Frances O.
    I was wondering about the segment of paganism that is trying to blend Wicca and Christianity. What do members here think of it? The opinions of other pagans
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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      I was wondering about the segment of paganism that is trying to blend
      Wicca and Christianity. What do members here think of it? The
      opinions of other pagans on other sites Say that it's impossible to
      fuse the two, because the doctrines are mutually incompatible (e.g.
      Christianity is monotheistic, Wicca is polytheistic, Christianity
      says there is only one way to salvation, Wicca says there are many
      paths, or that we don't need salvation).

      However, many religions, including Christianity, have been syncretic
      in nature, meaning they have tried to combine many disparate and
      opposing ideologies into a cohesive whole.

      The Wiccan blend of the two religions is called Christo Wicca. I
      discovered a web page where there was an attempt to combine Wicca and
      Christian, from the Christian point of view and it includes a
      Christian/Wiccan liturgy suggestion. Here is the link:
      http://www.inhumandecency.org/christine/8festivalsX.html

      Would love to hear everyone's thoughts. A Christo Wiccan would fit
      well into a UU Church, and the approach it takes would go a lot
      toward building bridges between the Christian/Pagan worlds.

      take care Frances
    • Jacob Williamson
      Interestingly, the old testament is polytheistic, believing in one patron deity that sat at the head of the table of the gods. So there are some gateways
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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        Interestingly, the old testament is polytheistic, believing in one patron
        deity that "sat at the head of the table of the gods." So there are some
        gateways toward a Christ-centered paganism.

        Would it be enough simply to have a Pagan approach to nature, and
        celebrate it as a divine gift? If you believed God (that is, JHVH-1) was
        everywhere and suffused everything, you're halfway to a magical mindset
        and a Pagan approach to worship anyway.

        True, textbook Christianity is mono-theistic, but suppose a worshipper
        of--fudge, I can't remember the name, that monothesitic mystery cult that
        flourished at the same time as early Christianity, but died out when
        Christianity was a better seller.--I don't think it would take too much
        for someone of that (unidentified) faith to call him/herself a Pagan. The
        difference seems to be the emotional baggage and bad feelings between the
        Pagan paths and Christianity.

        Though anyone calling themselves a "Christopagan" is clearly acknowledging
        that they are on a path that's a little bit different than most.

        *laughs* in the gay community, there's a popular, and frequently accurate,
        perception that bisexuals (at least, bisexual men) just haven't made up
        their minds yet, that the either-or state is experimental and
        transitional. I wonder if some Christopagans are trying to find a safe
        place to experiment with paganism? If so, it would be the height of
        self-destructive rudeness to attack them for that path.

        > I was wondering about the segment of paganism that is trying to blend
        > Wicca and Christianity. What do members here think of it? The
        > opinions of other pagans on other sites Say that it's impossible to
        > fuse the two, because the doctrines are mutually incompatible (e.g.
        > Christianity is monotheistic, Wicca is polytheistic, Christianity
        > says there is only one way to salvation, Wicca says there are many
        > paths, or that we don't need salvation).
        >
      • Star Maddox
        Some (not necessarily all) of the British Traditional Wicca folks get very upset with their term being applied to the practices of anyone who isn t an
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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          Some (not necessarily all) of the British Traditional Wicca folks get very upset with "their" term being applied to the practices of anyone who isn't an initiated member of a small handful of very specific traditions. I think they should recognize that language and words evolve and grow through the use of many people (not just the ones who originally brought them to wider attention), but it seems like a battle that I don't have the energy or the interest to pursue. Thanks to all the books that have been published on the subject (both good ones and bad), in the general population, the term Wicca has come to mean more of a general approach to religious / spiritual philosophy, with a handful of shifting common elements in common from one Wiccan path to the next.
           
          So, whether Christianity and Wicca are compatible largely depends on how you're defining those terms. If you're defining them as referenced by a set of outside definitions ("Does this person follow the Catechism?" "Does this person follow the Gardnerian BoS?"), then they probably aren't compatible. If you're defining them based on internal measures, then there's no reason at all that they can't be blended (see Santeria for a non-Wiccan version). If the defining characteristics of a Christian are a love of Christ and a desire to emulate his teachings, then the intervening centuries of writing and ossification in that tradition aren't necessarily relevant. If the defining characteristics of a Wiccan are magic, love of the natural world, and a multiplicity of the "right" ways to do things, then there is no direct conflict I can see.
           
          All of the above should be taken with a full canister of Morton's iodized salt - I wasn't raised in a Christian household, though I'm friends with a number of practicing Christians of various types. I'm a Discordian, so I prefer my religion as disorganized as possible, and labels (such as "Christian" or "Wiccan") are only good to extent that they are useful. Sometimes folks get so caught up in defining "us" and "them" as different that they fail to realize the situation is more complicated, and there are multiple similarities and differences both between and within the members of the groups.
           

          --
          Star Maddox
          eris@...
          Star.Maddox@...

           


          From: Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frances O.
          Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:32 AM
          To: Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Ethical_Witches] The New WiccanTrad: Blending Wicca with Christianity

          I was wondering about the segment of paganism that is trying to blend
          Wicca and Christianity. What do members here think of it? The
          opinions of other pagans on other sites Say that it's impossible to
          fuse the two, because the doctrines are mutually incompatible (e.g.
          Christianity is monotheistic, Wicca is polytheistic, Christianity
          says there is only one way to salvation, Wicca says there are many
          paths, or that we don't need salvation).

          However, many religions, including Christianity, have been syncretic
          in nature, meaning they have tried to combine many disparate and
          opposing ideologies into a cohesive whole.

          The Wiccan blend of the two religions is called Christo Wicca. I
          discovered a web page where there was an attempt to combine Wicca and
          Christian, from the Christian point of view and it includes a
          Christian/Wiccan liturgy suggestion. Here is the link:
          http://www.inhumand ecency.org/ christine/ 8festivalsX. html

          Would love to hear everyone's thoughts. A Christo Wiccan would fit
          well into a UU Church, and the approach it takes would go a lot
          toward building bridges between the Christian/Pagan worlds.

          take care Frances

          .

        • Frances Osborne
          but suppose a worshipperof--fudge, I can t remember the name, that monothesitic mystery cult thatflourished at the same time as early Christianity, but died
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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            "but suppose a worshipper
            of--fudge, I can't remember the name, that monothesitic mystery cult that
            flourished at the same time as early Christianity, but died out when
            Christianity was a better seller."
             
            It's Mithraism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
             
            take care Frances


            Don't get caught with egg on your face.    Play Chicktionary! 
          • thunderhoofdesigns
            ... [Do you have chapter and verse, Jacob? I d like to look this one over and see the context.] I ve long thought that if one agrees with the concept of
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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              --- In Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob Williamson" <jvw@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Interestingly, the old testament is polytheistic, believing in
              > one patron deity that "sat at the head of the table of the gods."
              > So there are some
              > gateways toward a Christ-centered paganism.
              >
              >
              > snip <

              [Do you have chapter and verse, Jacob? I'd like to look this one
              over and see the context.]


              I've long thought that if one agrees with the concept of 'Father-Son-
              Holy Spirit', then that's pretty much polytheism.

              > Though anyone calling themselves a "Christopagan" is clearly
              acknowledging
              > that they are on a path that's a little bit different than most.
              >

              Sadly, like any other faith I suppose, very often "different" equates
              to "wrong" in the eyes of some. What faith is "pure" anyway? Any
              religion or spiritual doctrine evolves, is influenced by the cultures
              around it, etc. I understand and support those who try - as best as
              possible - to preserve what they have of their heritage. I have a
              problem with the concept of my-way-is-the-right-way, though. A *big*
              problem. Let eveyone choose their own path, heck, create your own if
              you like. As long as you're not hurting anyone and it works for you,
              why stress it? Don't each of us want to have tolerance for our own
              definition of Paganism. To me, if you want tolerance you must be
              willing to give it. It seems like a pretty obvious karmic law, IMHO.


              > *laughs* in the gay community, there's a popular, and frequently
              accurate,
              > perception that bisexuals (at least, bisexual men) just haven't
              made up
              > their minds yet, that the either-or state is experimental and
              > transitional. I wonder if some Christopagans are trying to find a
              safe
              > place to experiment with paganism? If so, it would be the height of
              > self-destructive rudeness to attack them for that path.
              >

              < snip <

              Yes, yes! Let them explore and grow. Just as we want to explore and
              grow.

              I can get really bummed out about the intolerance issue. I as though
              it's a case of, "What, Pagans haven't been discriminated against from
              other groups, now we have to turn against each other?" Same thing
              with the gay community. Live and let live.

              And will I'm at it (can you tell this is one of my hot buttons?), I'm
              with you Discordians as far as I don't particularly care what you
              *call* yourself, it's what you *do* with your spirituality that
              counts.

              Rant mode off ;-)
              Stephanie
            • Heather
              I m not completely for or against. It sounds like an interesting concept and I may actually try to look into it and find out the basic belief system. A
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 2, 2007
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                I'm not completely for or against. It sounds like an interesting
                concept and I may actually try to look into it and find out the
                basic belief system.

                "A Christo Wiccan would fit well into a UU Church, and the approach
                it takes would go a lot toward building bridges between the
                Christian/Pagan worlds." - Frances

                Yes! I came from a very 'undecided' family when it came to
                religion. They were pro-Christian but it wasn't too heavyily pushed
                so I can't say I understand being pressured to conform to
                Christianity by my family. A lot of pagans convert from
                Christianity and carry a lot of baggage. Its very painful to see
                how angry they get with just the barest mention of Jesus or
                whatnot. I don't blame them, however maybe this Christo Wiccan
                movement will begin to bring two worlds together. If you look at
                the bare bones of what Jesus taught - it's very similar to Wicca.
                It's all about understanding, love and treating each other right.
                Then Christianity became of tool of domination and control and
                everything went to....well, hell.

                Of course there's that whole "God(male) is the only way" but that's
                basically Christian religion following after a social structure in a
                male dominated society. Its when you mix buisness with religion
                (the church as a money-raising device) that real problems arise.
                With the addition of money and power, corruption follows -
                especially when dealing with people with weak moral ethics to begin
                with.

                I personally am attuned to Mother Mary. She's a symbol of hope and
                compassion to me and I use her in a lot of my prayers. I don't
                necessarily think of her as a "goddess figure" but more as a channel
                of power, an archetype for my most favored attributes - kindness,
                love, forgiveness, inspiration, etc.

                those are my thoughts....I probably have more...but I have finals
                coming up and my brain is fried :) Here's to hoping Lammas gets me
                going again!

                bless.
                heather/feather
              • thunderhoof@austin.rr.com
                ... From: Heather Date: Thursday, August 2, 2007 12:08 pm Subject: [Ethical_Witches] Re: The New WiccanTrad: Blending Wicca with
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 3, 2007
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Heather <hpalmer_tx@...>
                  Date: Thursday, August 2, 2007 12:08 pm
                  Subject: [Ethical_Witches] Re: The New WiccanTrad: Blending Wicca with
                  Christianity
                  To: Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com

                  > I'm not completely for or against. It sounds like an interesting
                  > concept and I may actually try to look into it and find out the
                  > basic belief system.
                  >
                  > "A Christo Wiccan would fit well into a UU Church, and the
                  > approach
                  > it takes would go a lot toward building bridges between the
                  > Christian/Pagan worlds." - Frances
                  >
                  > Yes! I came from a very 'undecided' family when it came to
                  > religion. They were pro-Christian but it wasn't too heavyily
                  > pushed
                  > so I can't say I understand being pressured to conform to
                  > Christianity by my family. A lot of pagans convert from
                  > Christianity and carry a lot of baggage. Its very painful to see
                  > how angry they get with just the barest mention of Jesus or
                  > whatnot. I don't blame them, however maybe this Christo Wiccan
                  > movement will begin to bring two worlds together. If you look at
                  > the bare bones of what Jesus taught - it's very similar to Wicca.
                  > It's all about understanding, love and treating each other right.
                  > snip <

                  I haven't researched this myself, but I am told that there are a number
                  of Pagan-like teachings and doings of Jesus in the Biblical
                  apochrypha. It's been years since I read them, and I didn't have my
                  antennae up for that at the time. I do remember that the apochrypha
                  contain a fair amount of commentary (somewhere in them) promoting a
                  sharing/bartering slant to society which sounds rather communistic to
                  some. I also remember something about Jesus dancing something that
                  sounded an awful lot like a spiral dance.

                  My great gramdma used to say that if you paid attention to just the
                  things that Jesus is supposed to have said, that he was too radical for
                  most Christians. And the love and tolerance part of the message is
                  pretty darn cool. Radical, too, even today.

                  But memory fades, if someone else knows more than I, please speak up.

                  Namaste,
                  Stephanie
                • Janice Schwarz
                  Well, I tend to think of a lot of Neopagan religions, Wicca in particular, as a religious buffet. That seems to be how most people treat them: just pick and
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 3, 2007
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                    Well, I tend to think of a lot of Neopagan religions, Wicca in particular, as a religious buffet. That seems to be how most people treat them: just pick and chose what you want, add this, discard that, and voila...custom religion. Personally, I stopped thinking of myself as Wiccan once I couldn't reconcile the "harm none" thing and some other points. Yet some friends believe I can still call myself Wiccan without that because, well, it's a giant buffet. So I can see how this phenomenon has occurred.
                     
                    I think a lot of the ChristoWiccans are people that either find comfort in both religions, or want Wicca but fear (whether they admit it or not) going full on Wicca would be a one-way ticket to hell. I think it's a bit of a way for some to toe-dip in Wicca to see if it's what they really want. This may also be for those that are using Wicca as their religious rebellion phase (and there are a lot of Neopagans like that out there, Wicca or otherwise).
                     
                    As for polythiestic...well, Catholicism strikes me as polythiestic. I mean how often do they add new saints anyway? And look at the Voodonis and Santarians who use the saints too...there is overlap there as well. So I can see how some Wiccans would run with it too.
                     
                    I don't have particularly strong feelings on the subject one way or another. People will do with religion what they want. There isn't much stopping them. I just wonder if this translates as Wiccans that proseltyize or Christians that don't. :-P
                     
                    Janice


                    From: Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frances O.
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:32 AM
                    To: Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Ethical_Witches] The New WiccanTrad: Blending Wicca with Christianity

                    I was wondering about the segment of paganism that is trying to blend
                    Wicca and Christianity. What do members here think of it? The
                    opinions of other pagans on other sites Say that it's impossible to
                    fuse the two, because the doctrines are mutually incompatible (e.g.
                    Christianity is monotheistic, Wicca is polytheistic, Christianity
                    says there is only one way to salvation, Wicca says there are many
                    paths, or that we don't need salvation).

                    However, many religions, including Christianity, have been syncretic
                    in nature, meaning they have tried to combine many disparate and
                    opposing ideologies into a cohesive whole.

                    The Wiccan blend of the two religions is called Christo Wicca. I
                    discovered a web page where there was an attempt to combine Wicca and
                    Christian, from the Christian point of view and it includes a
                    Christian/Wiccan liturgy suggestion. Here is the link:
                    http://www.inhumand ecency.org/ christine/ 8festivalsX. html

                    Would love to hear everyone's thoughts. A Christo Wiccan would fit
                    well into a UU Church, and the approach it takes would go a lot
                    toward building bridges between the Christian/Pagan worlds.

                    take care Frances

                  • thunderhoofdesigns
                    ... particular, ... just ... voila...custom ... Personally, where religion is concerned I prefer a buffet to having it served to me on a plate. What would you
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 4, 2007
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                      --- In Ethical_Witches@yahoogroups.com, "Janice Schwarz" <janice@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, I tend to think of a lot of Neopagan religions, Wicca in
                      particular,
                      > as a religious buffet. That seems to be how most people treat them:
                      just
                      > pick and chose what you want, add this, discard that, and
                      voila...custom
                      > religion.
                      > snip <

                      Personally, where religion is concerned I prefer a buffet to having it
                      served to me on a plate.

                      What would you tip the waiter!
                      ;-)

                      Stephanie
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