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Re: [Escape_from_the_Fellowship] Re: Images of pastors needed

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  • George Potkonyak
    jotun2006 writes: [Max, your email does not show. Can you retype so we can see it? At the momment it is max.moon@... ] max.moon AT yahoo.co.uk
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2007
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      jotun2006 writes:

      [Max, your email does not show. Can you retype so we can see it? At the
      momment it is "max.moon@..."]

      max.moon AT yahoo.co.uk
    • Max Moon
      thats strange, i don t know why it didn t show. I will paist it again and in different 2 ways just to make sure. Here goes: max.moon AT yahoo.co.uk
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2007
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        thats strange, i don't know why it didn't show. I will paist it
        again and in different 2 ways just to make sure. Here goes:

        max.moon AT yahoo.co.uk

        max.moon@...


        --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com,
        "jotun2006" <jotun2006@...> wrote:
        >
        > Max,
        > your email does not show. Can you retype so we can see it? At the
        > momment it is "max.moon@"
        >
        > jotun
        >
        > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "Max Moon"
        > <max.moon@> wrote:
        > >
        > > A cult researcher who runs Firstplumbline.net needs images of CFM
        > > pastors to go along side the PH audio clips on his site. If
        > anyone
        > > out there has any kind of computerized images of the following
        > list
        > > of CFM pastors or photographs that you can scan and send to my
        > email,
        > > that would be a big help and would be greatly appreciated.. If
        > you
        > > know anyone who can help, please ask them to send me these images.
        > >
        > > I just happen to have 7MB of pictures of Potters House people
        from
        > > around the world including pastors (mostly americans). But I do
        > not
        > > know the names to those faces. Maybe Ken or Naboth or other ex-
        > > members can identify those faces. Only the faces in the list of
        > > names below will be needed.
        > >
        > > If anyone wants my 7MB collection of CFM images just say the word
        > and
        > > I will send them to you in a zip file.
        > >
        > > If anyone has images of the following list of people, please send
        > > them (preferably in a zip file) to my eamil which is
        > > max.moon@
        > >
        > > List of pastors are:
        > >
        > > Rod McNeil
        > >
        > > Paul Stevens
        > >
        > > Artie Aragon
        > >
        > > David Ford
        > >
        > > Greg Johnson
        > >
        > > Jon Spurgeon
        > >
        > > Mike Mastin
        > >
        > > Neil Watts
        > >
        > > Richard Rubi
        > >
        > > Joe Campbell
        > >
        > > Bobbie Macado
        > >
        > > Greg Farrell
        > >
        > > Bill Coolidge
        > >
        > > Marty Carnegie
        > >
        > > Glen Cluck
        > >
        > > Greg Mitchell
        > >
        > > Richard Cox
        > >
        > > Scott Lamb
        > >
        > > Steve Bowman
        > >
        > > Andrew Purchase
        > >
        > > Anthony Millar
        > >
        > > Aaron Montoya
        > >
        > > Neil McCann
        > >
        > > Richard_Tozer
        > >
        > > Scott Sharrock
        > >
        > > Glen Botu
        > >
        > > Tom Payne
        > >
        > > Paul Stephens
        > >
        > > Mario S
        > >
        >
      • kenhaining777
        Ah. A rogues gallery. I generally don t keep images of those guys around. Mr. Slammo used to have some that he would alter from time to time. You can view
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2007
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          Ah.  A rogues gallery.  I generally don't keep images of those guys around.  Mr. Slammo used to have some that he would alter from time to time.  You can view one of them at

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Waymans_World_Playhouse/

          I noticed you put Paul Stephens twice.  The "ph" spelling is the correct one.  I remember Mr. Slammo had one of Lamb talking to a couple of women that was quite interesting.  I will ask the Slammos if they have any on file that they would like to send you.

          You have Coolidge and Johnson listed, which raises some interesting questions.  How do most ex members who truly got out of the fellowship view some of these guys who continue in the "ministry," as it is called, or as what I would call religious professionals.  Someone told me that Coolidge has retired and moved out of Yuma, and that he got some kind of settlement and/or retirement from what was left of his church.  There was some valuable property involved and all it takes is mortgaging that property to give Coolidge a good sum of money to leave with.  How do people who labored in those churches and gave unbelievable amounts of money feel about that, particularly those who left fellowship in not so good shape.?

          How do people feel about Greg Johnson rejoining the denomination that the original fellowship leaders branded as evil?  It just seems easier for many of these guys who were in the upper eshelons of the fellowship to get a piece of the religious market as opposed to doing anything else for a living.  I fully understand, but I really don't approve much.  One man who got out was exceptionally honest with me and told me that one of the main reasons he remained a pastor after leaving Wayman's World was that it was the easiest way for him to make a living.  At least he was up front about it. 

          It can be hell for an ex fellowship pastor, who pastored for a decade or two, to reorient themselves to any other career.  You have to understand that when you achieved that office in the fellowship, you considered it your life time career.  When you get out you are thrown back to starting all over again, usually at middle age.  Not fun.  So some just do what they know how to do.  They gather a group of people to themselves and tell them that God sent them to preach and teach.  They rationalize it with "I am still called to preach."  Many of them manage to get a comfortable living out of it.

          There are some who honestly feel called to preach.  I can't say they shouldn't, and if they abandon fellowship doctrines that exploit people, then there is really nothing wrong with it.  I see it as supply and demand.  People want churches and pastors, and they are willing to pay for it.  The fellowship lures people in with a morsel of the real gospel and then tells them that they must come to that church all the time, submit to headship, and give money to stay saved.  There is a big difference between that and someone who provides a church and lets people come and go as they please, and give whatever money they choose to give.  The pastor is a teacher rather than a tyrant.

          Well, good luck collecting photos.  People used to be able to get them off of web sites, but I know they are tightening up on some of that.  The leadership of the fellowship really would rather not have "their people" on the internet much.  The leaders always have to worry about people stumbling on the truth about the Wayman O. fellowship.

          Shalom

           

          A cult researcher who runs Firstplumbline.net needs images of CFM
          pastors to go along side the PH audio clips on his site. If anyone
          out there has any kind of computerized images of the following list
          of CFM pastors or photographs that you can scan and send to my email,
          that would be a big help and would be greatly appreciated.. If you
          know anyone who can help, please ask them to send me these images.

          I just happen to have 7MB of pictures of Potters House people from
          around the world including pastors (mostly americans). But I do not
          know the names to those faces. Maybe Ken or Naboth or other ex-
          members can identify those faces. Only the faces in the list of
          names below will be needed.

          If anyone wants my 7MB collection of CFM images just say the word and
          I will send them to you in a zip file.

          If anyone has images of the following list of people, please send
          them (preferably in a zip file) to my eamil which is
          max.moon@...

          List of pastors are:

          Rod McNeil

          Paul Stevens

          Artie Aragon

          David Ford

          Greg Johnson

          Jon Spurgeon

          Mike Mastin

          Neil Watts

          Richard Rubi

          Joe Campbell

          Bobbie Macado

          Greg Farrell

          Bill Coolidge

          Marty Carnegie

          Glen Cluck

          Greg Mitchell

          Richard Cox

          Scott Lamb

          Steve Bowman

          Andrew Purchase

          Anthony Millar

          Aaron Montoya

          Neil McCann

          Richard_Tozer

          Scott Sharrock

          Glen Botu

          Tom Payne

          Paul Stephens

          Mario S

        • Donna Davis
          I know I have one of Paul Stephens from the late 70 s, i think (behind the pulpit), Stuart Reblin and Eric Strutz from (probably) early-mid 80 s. When I find
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 3, 2007
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            I know I have one of Paul Stephens from the late 70's, i think (behind the pulpit), Stuart Reblin and Eric Strutz from (probably) early-mid 80's. When I find them, I will send them on.

            kenhaining777 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            Ah.  A rogues gallery.  I generally don't keep images of those guys around.  Mr. Slammo used to have some that he would alter from time to time.  You can view one of them at
            I noticed you put Paul Stephens twice.  The "ph" spelling is the correct one.  I remember Mr. Slammo had one of Lamb talking to a couple of women that was quite interesting.  I will ask the Slammos if they have any on file that they would like to send you.
            You have Coolidge and Johnson listed, which raises some interesting questions.  How do most ex members who truly got out of the fellowship view some of these guys who continue in the "ministry," as it is called, or as what I would call religious professionals.  Someone told me that Coolidge has retired and moved out of Yuma, and that he got some kind of settlement and/or retirement from what was left of his church.  There was some valuable property involved and all it takes is mortgaging that property to give Coolidge a good sum of money to leave with.  How do people who labored in those churches and gave unbelievable amounts of money feel about that, particularly those who left fellowship in not so good shape.?
            How do people feel about Greg Johnson rejoining the denomination that the original fellowship leaders branded as evil?  It just seems easier for many of these guys who were in the upper eshelons of the fellowship to get a piece of the religious market as opposed to doing anything else for a living.  I fully understand, but I really don't approve much.  One man who got out was exceptionally honest with me and told me that one of the main reasons he remained a pastor after leaving Wayman's World was that it was the easiest way for him to make a living.  At least he was up front about it. 
            It can be hell for an ex fellowship pastor, who pastored for a decade or two, to reorient themselves to any other career.  You have to understand that when you achieved that office in the fellowship, you considered it your life time career.  When you get out you are thrown back to starting all over again, usually at middle age.  Not fun.  So some just do what they know how to do.  They gather a group of people to themselves and tell them that God sent them to preach and teach.  They rationalize it with "I am still called to preach."  Many of them manage to get a comfortable living out of it.
            There are some who honestly feel called to preach.  I can't say they shouldn't, and if they abandon fellowship doctrines that exploit people, then there is really nothing wrong with it.  I see it as supply and demand.  People want churches and pastors, and they are willing to pay for it.  The fellowship lures people in with a morsel of the real gospel and then tells them that they must come to that church all the time, submit to headship, and give money to stay saved.  There is a big difference between that and someone who provides a church and lets people come and go as they please, and give whatever money they choose to give.  The pastor is a teacher rather than a tyrant.
            Well, good luck collecting photos.  People used to be able to get them off of web sites, but I know they are tightening up on some of that.  The leadership of the fellowship really would rather not have "their people" on the internet much.  The leaders always have to worry about people stumbling on the truth about the Wayman O. fellowship.
            Shalom
             
            A cult researcher who runs Firstplumbline. net needs images of CFM
            pastors to go along side the PH audio clips on his site. If anyone
            out there has any kind of computerized images of the following list
            of CFM pastors or photographs that you can scan and send to my email,
            that would be a big help and would be greatly appreciated. . If you
            know anyone who can help, please ask them to send me these images.

            I just happen to have 7MB of pictures of Potters House people from
            around the world including pastors (mostly americans). But I do not
            know the names to those faces. Maybe Ken or Naboth or other ex-
            members can identify those faces. Only the faces in the list of
            names below will be needed.

            If anyone wants my 7MB collection of CFM images just say the word and
            I will send them to you in a zip file.

            If anyone has images of the following list of people, please send
            them (preferably in a zip file) to my eamil which is
            max.moon@yahoo. co.uk

            List of pastors are:

            Rod McNeil

            Paul Stevens

            Artie Aragon

            David Ford

            Greg Johnson

            Jon Spurgeon

            Mike Mastin

            Neil Watts

            Richard Rubi

            Joe Campbell

            Bobbie Macado

            Greg Farrell

            Bill Coolidge

            Marty Carnegie

            Glen Cluck

            Greg Mitchell

            Richard Cox

            Scott Lamb

            Steve Bowman

            Andrew Purchase

            Anthony Millar

            Aaron Montoya

            Neil McCann

            Richard_Tozer

            Scott Sharrock

            Glen Botu

            Tom Payne

            Paul Stephens

            Mario S



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          • kenhaining777
            [I know I have one of Paul Stephens from the late 70 s, i think (behind the pulpit), Stuart Reblin and Eric Strutz from (probably) early-mid 80 s. When I find
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 3, 2007
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              [I know I have one of Paul Stephens from the late 70's, i think (behind the pulpit), Stuart Reblin and Eric Strutz from (probably) early-mid 80's. When I find them, I will send them on.]

               

              Back when Stephens had hair. 

              Stuart Reblin and Eric Stutz.  Now there's a couple of familiar names.  As far as I know Eric stayed glued to his church in California, just like most men that have a church that lets them be "full time."  Stuart I lost track of.  He seemed to vanish behind the clouds after Harold sent him out.  He was on staff forever and I know at one point he tried to do someting about the "Mona problem."  That's a sure way to end up on the back side of the desert. 

              I have some pics of the Tucson music scene from 1976.  Strange days indeed and looking at them with perfect hindsight I can hardly believe I was a part of that whole deal.  Oh well, live and learn the hard way.

              Shalom

               

               


            • George Potkonyak
              I also have a picture of one, I think his first name being Adolf (I forgot the last name), from cca 1939. The guy combs his hair from right to left and has a
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 3, 2007
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                I also have a picture of one, I think his first name being Adolf (I
                forgot the last name), from cca 1939. The guy combs his hair from
                right to left and has a few hairs under his nose.

                If we etch out the hair from under his nose and remove a big sign over
                his picture that reads "Heil !" and replace it with "Submit !" we will
                have a perfect picture of ANY current Potters House leader.

                Where do I send the picture?

                shalom,
                george
              • Max Moon
                thanks ken
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 4, 2007
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                  thanks ken
                • kat
                  ... What is/was the Mona problem ?
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 4, 2007
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                    --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > [I know I have one of Paul Stephens from the late 70's, i think (behind
                    > the pulpit), Stuart Reblin and Eric Strutz from (probably) early-mid
                    > 80's. When I find them, I will send them on.]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Back when Stephens had hair.
                    >
                    > Stuart Reblin and Eric Stutz. Now there's a couple of familiar names.
                    > As far as I know Eric stayed glued to his church in California, just
                    > like most men that have a church that lets them be "full time." Stuart
                    > I lost track of. He seemed to vanish behind the clouds after Harold
                    > sent him out. He was on staff forever and I know at one point he tried
                    > to do someting about the "Mona problem." That's a sure way to end up on
                    > the back side of the desert.
                    >
                    > I have some pics of the Tucson music scene from 1976. Strange days
                    > indeed and looking at them with perfect hindsight I can hardly believe I
                    > was a part of that whole deal. Oh well, live and learn the hard way.
                    >
                    > Shalom



                    What is/was the "Mona problem" ?
                    >
                  • kenhaining777
                    [What is/was the Mona problem ?] That question would take some writing to answer. To give a concise answer, first of all, Mona pretty much does whatever she
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 5, 2007
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                      [What is/was the "Mona problem" ?]

                       

                      That question would take some writing to answer.  To give a concise answer, first of all, Mona pretty much does whatever she wants as long as she plays the part of Harold's wife.  The issue goes back to her committing adultery in the late 70s and Harold not resigning from the ministry as an honorable man would do.  No one dare question Mona's lifestyle in the Tucson church. 

                      Here is part of a letter that Lee Stubbs wrote to Harold when he was leaving the fellowship:

                      Since we had arrived in Maryland, Connie was receiving constant
                      letters and phone calls every day from Mona. You know that she
                      called Connie every day that we were in LV because I'm sure you saw
                      the phone bills. At this time, Mona was writing about how unhappy
                      she was and how she wanted out of your marriage. She had saved the
                      money for her own car and was planning to leave you. She told Connie
                      that you had slapped her when she told you about her fornication
                      with R_______ D______. You know, Harold that when you called me into
                      your office when we were still in Tucson and told me never to speak
                      of Mona's sin with R______, I promised you that I would not tell
                      what R_____ had told me about Mona or his meeting with you. I had
                      not done that. But, remembering the other times that Mona had to
                      make trips to Prescott to "get her hand slapped" as she referred to
                      it, I decided to call Pastor Mitchell who was preaching in
                      Australia. He told me to take care of it and said he didn't have the
                      time because he had 10 other pastoring couples in the same situation
                      (that really encouraged us!) and that you were a good man in a bad
                      marriage and a bad situation. Hence, my decision to get on a plane
                      and tell you myself what Mona was planning. I charged a very
                      expensive, last minute ticket. The ONLY reason I choose to do this
                      was of our love for both of you. We were afraid that Mona would
                      leave and as a result we would lose our pastor and our home church
                      would fall apart. Our only motivation was out of concern. But even
                      that was misunderstood.

                      When I arrived in Tucson and met you at prayer meeting, you did not
                      seem surprised to see me. You told me you believed that Mona had
                      said those things and we still have the letters if it is doubted.
                      You asked me to stay at the church while you went home to talk to
                      Mona. I later flew back to Maryland. Mona called Connie that night
                      and told her we were unsalvageable as pastors and she cut Connie off
                      for years following that. When we arrived in Prescott (which
                      entailed my quitting another job to be there) you called me into
                      Pastor Mitchell's office and told me that you felt that we had
                      wanted to go to HDG from the beginning and that you felt you had
                      wasted money on us. You then called Connie in to ask her if Sandi
                      Haining had ever spoken against you. Paul Campo had accused Sandi of
                      speaking against Mona. I went back to Maryland with a heavy heart.
                      Our new converts had started attending services elsewhere while we
                      were gone and never came back. I lost a job. All so you could take
                      me in the office in Prescott. We labored hard in Baltimore. I would
                      work a job and then when it was time for conference on the Cape,
                      Stephens would call me and tell me that I had to be there. When I
                      told him that I could only be in half the services, he would
                      say, "There is no use in coming, then. You be in all of them or
                      don't come." He would then call you, and you would call me and tell
                      me I had to be there and I would give up another job to do what you
                      wanted. We were one of the first couples to go out and work, also.
                      We didn't mind. We were doing something for God. But I could not
                      support my family and lose a job every other month to go off to the
                      Cape, to Tucson or to Prescott. We felt like we could not pastor
                      with Mona ignoring Connie and with all the misunderstandings. So we
                      asked to come home for re-direction. Also the first Tucson couple to
                      do that. We asked in January. We were hurt, felt betrayed and needed
                      some time to heal. You told us to wait until the week before the May
                      conference. So from January to May, our family was hurting, but you
                      made us wait so you could announce it at conference. You accused us
                      of isolating ourselves while we were in Maryland. You flew out to
                      have a confrontation with us over lies spoken by Paul Stephens who
                      thought he was the biggest thing happening in the fellowship. Connie
                      looked you in the face with tears streaming down her face and
                      said, "How can we be isolating ourselves when we spent half of last
                      month attending revivals and outreaches in Lancaster and York, going
                      on an outreach 6 hours away to help Campo start the church in New
                      York (a church that he never got off the ground) and attended the
                      Haining revival in NY. and attended the Cape conference. We are
                      working, trying to pioneer a work and attending revivals around us."
                      You did apologize to Connie before you left, but we felt that old
                      saying to be true. "When a dog is down, everybody kicks it." We were
                      the same people that had done so well for the fellowship (Pastor
                      Mitchell's words) just a year before. Yet, you let Stephens and
                      Campo say whatever they wanted to about us. Larry Neville got wind
                      of what was happening with us, somehow, and came to have lunch with
                      me.

                       

                      That gives you a little bit of an idea of what has gone on, and is still going on, not just with Mona, but all over the fellowship.

                      Shalom

                       

                       



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