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Re: Conversation with ex CFM pastor

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  • kenhaining777
    joaquin1saved said: [I don t want to say his name because he still attends. I ran into him a month ago and gave him my number. He text me some inspirational
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 1, 2013
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      joaquin1saved said:

      [I don't want to say his name because he still attends. I ran into him a month
      ago and gave him my number. He text me some inspirational stuff so I called him
      back. The day I ran into him I told him my current situation and he told me his.
      I was shocked to the core about how he got burned in the field as a pastor, he
      didn't want to tell me the details but I know it broke him as a man of God,
      enough so that he backslid for over a year while still going to church. Even the
      details he did share I do not wish to discuss out of respect for him.

      I told him I never truly believed it was a cult even after I left, till I really
      started doing research. I shared a some stuff that has nothing to do with ex CFM
      members because I know he's told we're all just bitter rebels. I wanted him to
      hear it from someone other than us at least.]

      I have to wonder how many, who attend those churches regularly, are sitting on the fence like this guy?  For sure, those who are "sent out," and then brought home for "redirection," are frequently on the fence and almost always leave eventually.  Of course, almost everyone leaves eventually. 

      I wonder how many are just going to church out of habit, and out of not having a viable alternative?  Or at least they don't think they have a viable alternative.  They have been taught that all the other churches are at least inferior to Waymanite churches, and that most are lukewarm and harbor the essence of darkness.  When people complain about the abuse, exploitation, and other negative qualities of the fellowship of Lord Wayman, one of the pat answers is, "There is no perfect fellowship."  Yet they will encourage anyone to forsake their church for The Potters House.  It's so twisted and weird. 

      The "bitter rebels who are backslidden" line is an old one.  Wayman can't be wrong, which is why one of my titles for him is The Pope of Prescott.  Therefore, if you object to the Wayman Way of doing things, then you have to be messed up.  You have to be backslidden.  You have to be bitter.  You have to be evil.  Then they teach the people in the churches not to talk at all with these bitter backsliders.  They don't want anyone to hear the other side of the story.  The biggest threat to them is someone who leaves and is happy in another church.  One member of the fellowship described such people as "the flesh is smiling."  He said that such people were enjoying a passing pleasure of lukewarmness, but that it would catch up with them.  However, these "rebels" would just say that they traded the heavy burden and hard yoke of Waymanchrist for the light burden and easy yoke of Jesus Christ, and that's why they are smiling.  Can't have people hearing that. 

      The whole backslider thing is typical of religious teachings.  Many religions have such titles for ex members.  It is the death penalty to be Muslim and then leave that religion.  I have to smirk when I was reading statistics of religious demographics in various countries.  When I came to Saudi Arabia it listed it as 100% Muslim.  You had better be Muslim, or really good at pretending to be Muslim, or you are dead, if you are a citizen of that country.  Mormons will declare someone an apostate if they leave the religion.  Hindus also resent members of their religion who convert to other religions, or simply renounce religion altogether.  This seems to be a method of holding onto members, and I, being a bit cynical, tend to think these terms were invented by religious leaders who wanted to keep the finances and support coming in by maintaining as many members as possible.  Certainly, this is how it is in Wayman's World. 

      What's funny about the fellowship is that you are considered more backslidden if you renounce the fellowship, and go to another church or religious group, than you are if you commit adultery.  Wes Baker committed adultery with an 18 year old when he was 48 years old, divorced his wife, married his lover, and was back on the stage preaching in the fellowship in a wink of an eye.  However, when he preached for Dale Reece, after Reece left the fellowship, Wayman threw Wes out.  There is no more clear indication of how the fellowship really works, and that it is not really Bible based. 

      That brings up another point.  I was listening to Charles Swindoll on the radio, a bit before I was forced out.  Swindoll was talking about adulterous pastors.  He noted that if such a man repented that he should be forgiven, brought back into the church, but that he should never pastor again.  He noted that the standards for pastors, according to the New Testament, were pretty high, including things like "blameless."  I marveled as I realized that his standards for the ministry were very much higher than the fellowship's standards.  We always boasted that our standards were the highest in the land.  After all, we didn't have TVs.  Our pastors shunned movie theaters.  We went to church all the time.  We yelled, unashamedly, in "tongues."  Yet, I can't count the number of pastors in the fellowship who were recycled adulterers.  In reality, Waymanite standards are meaningless.  They are just religious form.  When it comes to real righteousness, they are completely lacking, and are in fact quite evil.

      Shalom
      Ken


       


    • joaquin1saved
      I have to wonder how many, who attend those churches regularly, are sitting on the fence like this guy? For sure, those who are sent out, and then brought
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 2, 2013
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        I have to wonder how many, who attend those churches regularly, are sitting on the fence like this guy? For sure, those who are "sent out," and then brought home for "redirection," are frequently on the fence and almost always leave eventually. Of course, almost everyone leaves eventually.

        I wonder how many are just going to church out of habit, and out of not having a viable alternative? Or at least they don't think they have a viable alternative. They have been taught that all the other churches are at least inferior to Waymanite churches, and that most are lukewarm and harbor the essence of darkness. When people complain about the abuse, exploitation, and other negative qualities of the fellowship of Lord Wayman, one of the pat answers is, "There is no perfect fellowship." Yet they will encourage anyone to forsake their church for The Potters House. It's so twisted and weird.

        The "bitter rebels who are backslidden" line is an old one. Wayman can't be wrong, which is why one of my titles for him is The Pope of Prescott. Therefore, if you object to the Wayman Way of doing things, then you have to be messed up. You have to be backslidden. You have to be bitter. You have to be evil. Then they teach the people in the churches not to talk at all with these bitter backsliders. They don't want anyone to hear the other side of the story. The biggest threat to them is someone who leaves and is happy in another church. One member of the fellowship described such people as "the flesh is smiling." He said that such people were enjoying a passing pleasure of lukewarmness, but that it would catch up with them. However, these "rebels" would just say that they traded the heavy burden and hard yoke of Waymanchrist for the light burden and easy yoke of Jesus Christ, and that's why they are smiling. Can't have people hearing that.

        The whole backslider thing is typical of religious teachings. Many religions have such titles for ex members. It is the death penalty to be Muslim and then leave that religion. I have to smirk when I was reading statistics of religious demographics in various countries. When I came to Saudi Arabia it listed it as 100% Muslim. You had better be Muslim, or really good at pretending to be Muslim, or you are dead, if you are a citizen of that country. Mormons will declare someone an apostate if they leave the religion. Hindus also resent members of their religion who convert to other religions, or simply renounce religion altogether. This seems to be a method of holding onto members, and I, being a bit cynical, tend to think these terms were invented by religious leaders who wanted to keep the finances and support coming in by maintaining as many members as possible. Certainly, this is how it is in Wayman's World.

        What's funny about the fellowship is that you are considered more backslidden if you renounce the fellowship, and go to another church or religious group, than you are if you commit adultery. Wes Baker committed adultery with an 18 year old when he was 48 years old, divorced his wife, married his lover, and was back on the stage preaching in the fellowship in a wink of an eye. However, when he preached for Dale Reece, after Reece left the fellowship, Wayman threw Wes out. There is no more clear indication of how the fellowship really works, and that it is not really Bible based.

        That brings up another point. I was listening to Charles Swindoll on the radio, a bit before I was forced out. Swindoll was talking about adulterous pastors. He noted that if such a man repented that he should be forgiven, brought back into the church, but that he should never pastor again. He noted that the standards for pastors, according to the New Testament, were pretty high, including things like "blameless." I marveled as I realized that his standards for the ministry were very much higher than the fellowship's standards. We always boasted that our standards were the highest in the land. After all, we didn't have TVs. Our pastors shunned movie theaters. We went to church all the time. We yelled, unashamedly, in "tongues." Yet, I can't count the number of pastors in the fellowship who were recycled adulterers. In reality, Waymanite standards are meaningless. They are just religious form. When it comes to real righteousness, they are completely lacking, and are in fact quite evil.

        Shalom
        Ken

        Well spoken especially the part about how various religions treat backsliders from their faith. It's usually because they see through the scam. A parallel to CFMs behavior that is interesting to me is how the Pharisees did believe Jesus was who he claimed to be. They flat out said they believed him in one case, when they tested him with the coin. Though they did believe he was the Messiah they couldn't follow him because to do so would mean the end of their control.

        That's the key to why CFM leadership is so hard on backsliders, those who leave for valid reasons or due to religious abuse. CONTROL! To admit to valid reasons for leaving would basically crush their religious system. In one case Jesus asked them a question. Is the baptism of John from God or man? Again this question parallels our plight as those who have left. Are the reasons most people leave CFM righteous and biblical or not?

        Which is why in a previous post I mentioned Job's friends and pride. Nothing can get trough to them even simple plain as day truth. If anything that God hates it's pride. There's 7 other things God hates and most apply to the way ex CFM members are treated.

        16There are six things that the Lord hates,

        even seven things that are an abomination to him:

        17haughty eyes, a lying tongue,

        and hands that shed innocent blood,

        18a heart that devises wicked plans,

        feet that are swift to run to evil,

        19a false witness who pours out lies,

        and a person who spreads discord among brethren


        God judges individually so it would be unfair to say God hates the people in CFM. But it wouldn't be unfair to say that GOD HATES CFM as a religious organization, based upon the scriptures. What we testify about is not lies and is with more than 2 or 3 witnesses, yet we have no recourse. The rabbit hole just continues to go deeper. What do we have to gain by exposing CFM? More ridicule? It's done out of principle and hopes that others won't have to suffer the effects of religious abuse as we have.
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