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Potters House Experience

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  • applebiter801
    Everybody, sorry I ve been hit and miss. I m a private contractor in Afghanistan and some of my days can be pretty busy. I posted by testimony once before but
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 25, 2013
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      Everybody, sorry I've been hit and miss. I'm a private contractor in Afghanistan and some of my days can be pretty busy.

      I posted by testimony once before but I was very vague as to who I was and who the men in question were. I'm going to re-post my testimony because something Ken said, about not being true to himself by hiding his identity (paraphrasing) kind of stuck nerve with me.

      Also, I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt that my experience happened exactly as I'm going to describe it. I will name names of adults because I am not concerned with hiding or not exposing what happens. Enough lies have been said about me over the pulpit that I am not even concerned with posting the truth.

      What really spurred me getting back on the website was my wife and I attempted to reconcile but her allegiance to CFM is unwavering. At first, I did not make any demands of her leaving but once she started making demands from me, I reasoned that her behavior is exactly the same as it was that caused us to separate in the first place. It's something I blame her indoctrination for and it was proven true when I mentioned a single item about CFM (who are you to tell me who I can be friends with when you're still going to CFM and even worse, taking my kids there). One mention of CFM from me and she lost it and it started a 5-day argument. Anyhow, how did it get to this point? Here's hoping for some catharsis.

      My name is Jose Gutierrez; I grew up in the San Diego Potters House under Rick Buchholz ministry when he replaced another pastor in San Diego (Mexican gentleman his wife's name was Bobbi). Doing the typical CFM youth thing, I completely rebelled as a teenager.

      When I was 19, I joined the USAF in 1991 and was stationed at Hill AFB near Ogden, UT. Being alone in a strange place I sought out some familiarity so I sporadically attended the Potters House on Grant and Monroe St. At the time there was a Pastor there named McPherson. Soon after, the church split happened, McPherson left and Glen Cluck took his place. I was still off and on but in April of 2001, I "locked-in" under Cluck's ministry. I met a local girl, was married, and did the whole cookie cutter disciple thing. Youth leader, rapper, drama team, bible study leader, etc. During this time, despite negative encouragement from some of my "brethren" I still went to school and eventually earned my Bachelors and in time, my Masters.

      In time, Cluck was called to "rescue" the church in Guam. I guess the pastor there was busted with porn (how many haven't been busted). Cluck was replaced by a man named Rick Martinez. Things went along as normal, continuing to grow and take on responsibility. In time, the USAF took me to Guam for a two-year assignment. I'll fast forward to the fallout:

      Shortly after arriving on Guam, Cluck was called to "rescue" the church in the Philippines (lots of revenue) and he was replaced by a man named Bob McGinnis (the current pastor in NM).

      One of the young girls from a broken home in the fellowship grew close to me, my wife, and son. We supported her, took her to lunch and dinner, sometimes she stayed the night, and her father would ask if we could give her rides. Normal fellowship behavior that I had confirmed she was also doing with another couple in the church.

      One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to speak to me after service. When I approached the altar after the service had concluded, he immediately began the attack. Bob basically accused me of having an inappropriate relationship with her and accused me of doing all I could to ensure she was attracted to me. He said, I've been preaching about it and you did nothing to change. I said, I wasn't doing those things you were preaching on. I never talked to her on the phone at night (or at all except for one time I was working late and she called to see if I was coming to church because she had left something in my car). I told Bob that my wife never sat in the car waiting for me to finish talking/flirting with anyone. I always brought the car around. I continued to try to defend myself but he kept brining baseless allegations against me until I finally just stopped and let him continue.

      So I took the rebuke and "kept my heart right". Shortly after I separated from the USAF and relocated back to Ogden. When I got back Martinez and I went out to dinner with our wives and he told me he needed to raise men up to be launched out. I told him I was willing to go anywhere God wanted to send me. When I relayed this message to a friend on Guam about finally being in a position to really be used by Guam (talking about being out of the military), Glen and Bob distorted my message over the pulpit and claimed I was badmouthing their church. Many of the 500 members I had gotten used to were immediately forbade to have any contact with me. NOBODY ever once contacted me again. Not even when my Airman, who I brought out to church repeatedly was killed while on deployment.

      Cluck told Martinez something when they were at conference. When Martinez got back he told me to avoid Guam. I found out what was being said because the lies had spread to my mom's church in San Diego
      So I said "fuck it", I'm out of this place. I went to Iraq and decided I wasn't going to preach.

      My wife lost her mind, constantly belittled me and accused me of not being a "real man" and being gone too often. I eventually quit Iraq and was home but that wasn't good enough because I wasn't in church. The fights and belittling continued. Within 6 months of me being home, we separated*. When Martinez called me and asked me what happened, I told him the whole story (everything I typed here). He said McGinnis was right to rebuke me. If before I was teetering no my choice, at that point, I was gone for good.

      If you read this far, thank you. I know it's a lot of information. I included names and time frames because I know what happened and what I was falsely accused of. Any way you slice it, when you accuse a 27 year old man of having an inappropriate, sexual attraction to a child, you're calling him a pedophile. That's exactly what Bob McGinnis did. Glen Cluck, Rick Martinez, and my estranged wife support this man and nobody has held any of them accountable for their lies. I will not support them, join them, or be linked to them in any way, shape, or form. Unfortuneately, my estranged wife is too influenced by them and will never leave. Therefore, we will never be.

      That's my story.

      *Yes, if you know me or my estranged wife you'll know I moved out of my house, moved into my own apartment, and attempted to move on with my life. I met a girl and I began dating her before my divorce was final. My estranged wife was pregnant at the time and I know it reflects poorly on me but I have bank statements that show, even to this day, she has had very little income yet lives in a brand new 6 bedroom 3 bathroom house and drives a 2008 Special Edition 4Runner. I may have left my marriage but I never abandoned my kids (or her for that matter). They have never gone without and nobody will ever be able to accuse me of that.
    • potkonyak
      Hi Jose I will tell you what really happened in your ordeal with your headship . It is nothing to do with your alleged affair with that young girl. Cluck
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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        Hi Jose

        I will tell you what really happened in your ordeal with your 'headship'. It is nothing to do with your alleged affair with that young girl. Cluck was not happy with your level of giving. It appears you were earning well above average income and he expected quite heavy 'offerings besides'. Most probably your wife spoke to your pastor's wife and told her that you are the one holding back God's money. Also, you can bet your wife was giving in addition to what you were giving but it was not enough. They wanted to separate you two, knowing that you will continue supporting your wife and kids generously, with them ripping her off - generously.

        But you haven't seen everything yet: [1] they will get your wife to divorce you and to `give to God' a good chunk of what you were working for all your life; [2] they will turn your children against you. Just watch them!

        Shalom,
        george
      • its_just_me_nancy
        wow.. that is a testimony. ... Afghanistan and some of my days can be pretty busy. ... and who the men in question were. I m going to re-post my testimony
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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          wow.. that is a testimony.
          --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "applebiter801" <applebiter801@...> wrote:
          >
          > Everybody, sorry I've been hit and miss. I'm a private contractor in Afghanistan and some of my days can be pretty busy.
          >
          > I posted by testimony once before but I was very vague as to who I was and who the men in question were. I'm going to re-post my testimony because something Ken said, about not being true to himself by hiding his identity (paraphrasing) kind of stuck nerve with me.
          >
          > Also, I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt that my experience happened exactly as I'm going to describe it. I will name names of adults because I am not concerned with hiding or not exposing what happens. Enough lies have been said about me over the pulpit that I am not even concerned with posting the truth.
          >
          > What really spurred me getting back on the website was my wife and I attempted to reconcile but her allegiance to CFM is unwavering. At first, I did not make any demands of her leaving but once she started making demands from me, I reasoned that her behavior is exactly the same as it was that caused us to separate in the first place. It's something I blame her indoctrination for and it was proven true when I mentioned a single item about CFM (who are you to tell me who I can be friends with when you're still going to CFM and even worse, taking my kids there). One mention of CFM from me and she lost it and it started a 5-day argument. Anyhow, how did it get to this point? Here's hoping for some catharsis.
          >
          > My name is Jose Gutierrez; I grew up in the San Diego Potters House under Rick Buchholz ministry when he replaced another pastor in San Diego (Mexican gentleman his wife's name was Bobbi). Doing the typical CFM youth thing, I completely rebelled as a teenager.
          >
          > When I was 19, I joined the USAF in 1991 and was stationed at Hill AFB near Ogden, UT. Being alone in a strange place I sought out some familiarity so I sporadically attended the Potters House on Grant and Monroe St. At the time there was a Pastor there named McPherson. Soon after, the church split happened, McPherson left and Glen Cluck took his place. I was still off and on but in April of 2001, I "locked-in" under Cluck's ministry. I met a local girl, was married, and did the whole cookie cutter disciple thing. Youth leader, rapper, drama team, bible study leader, etc. During this time, despite negative encouragement from some of my "brethren" I still went to school and eventually earned my Bachelors and in time, my Masters.
          >
          > In time, Cluck was called to "rescue" the church in Guam. I guess the pastor there was busted with porn (how many haven't been busted). Cluck was replaced by a man named Rick Martinez. Things went along as normal, continuing to grow and take on responsibility. In time, the USAF took me to Guam for a two-year assignment. I'll fast forward to the fallout:
          >
          > Shortly after arriving on Guam, Cluck was called to "rescue" the church in the Philippines (lots of revenue) and he was replaced by a man named Bob McGinnis (the current pastor in NM).
          >
          > One of the young girls from a broken home in the fellowship grew close to me, my wife, and son. We supported her, took her to lunch and dinner, sometimes she stayed the night, and her father would ask if we could give her rides. Normal fellowship behavior that I had confirmed she was also doing with another couple in the church.
          >
          > One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to speak to me after service. When I approached the altar after the service had concluded, he immediately began the attack. Bob basically accused me of having an inappropriate relationship with her and accused me of doing all I could to ensure she was attracted to me. He said, I've been preaching about it and you did nothing to change. I said, I wasn't doing those things you were preaching on. I never talked to her on the phone at night (or at all except for one time I was working late and she called to see if I was coming to church because she had left something in my car). I told Bob that my wife never sat in the car waiting for me to finish talking/flirting with anyone. I always brought the car around. I continued to try to defend myself but he kept brining baseless allegations against me until I finally just stopped and let him continue.
          >
          > So I took the rebuke and "kept my heart right". Shortly after I separated from the USAF and relocated back to Ogden. When I got back Martinez and I went out to dinner with our wives and he told me he needed to raise men up to be launched out. I told him I was willing to go anywhere God wanted to send me. When I relayed this message to a friend on Guam about finally being in a position to really be used by Guam (talking about being out of the military), Glen and Bob distorted my message over the pulpit and claimed I was badmouthing their church. Many of the 500 members I had gotten used to were immediately forbade to have any contact with me. NOBODY ever once contacted me again. Not even when my Airman, who I brought out to church repeatedly was killed while on deployment.
          >
          > Cluck told Martinez something when they were at conference. When Martinez got back he told me to avoid Guam. I found out what was being said because the lies had spread to my mom's church in San Diego
          > So I said "fuck it", I'm out of this place. I went to Iraq and decided I wasn't going to preach.
          >
          > My wife lost her mind, constantly belittled me and accused me of not being a "real man" and being gone too often. I eventually quit Iraq and was home but that wasn't good enough because I wasn't in church. The fights and belittling continued. Within 6 months of me being home, we separated*. When Martinez called me and asked me what happened, I told him the whole story (everything I typed here). He said McGinnis was right to rebuke me. If before I was teetering no my choice, at that point, I was gone for good.
          >
          > If you read this far, thank you. I know it's a lot of information. I included names and time frames because I know what happened and what I was falsely accused of. Any way you slice it, when you accuse a 27 year old man of having an inappropriate, sexual attraction to a child, you're calling him a pedophile. That's exactly what Bob McGinnis did. Glen Cluck, Rick Martinez, and my estranged wife support this man and nobody has held any of them accountable for their lies. I will not support them, join them, or be linked to them in any way, shape, or form. Unfortuneately, my estranged wife is too influenced by them and will never leave. Therefore, we will never be.
          >
          > That's my story.
          >
          > *Yes, if you know me or my estranged wife you'll know I moved out of my house, moved into my own apartment, and attempted to move on with my life. I met a girl and I began dating her before my divorce was final. My estranged wife was pregnant at the time and I know it reflects poorly on me but I have bank statements that show, even to this day, she has had very little income yet lives in a brand new 6 bedroom 3 bathroom house and drives a 2008 Special Edition 4Runner. I may have left my marriage but I never abandoned my kids (or her for that matter). They have never gone without and nobody will ever be able to accuse me of that.
          >
        • applebiter801
          Please excuse my typos. It was almost 2am when I posted this. I think for how long it was, I have a pretty good ratio of being grammatically correct. Jose My
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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            Please excuse my typos. It was almost 2am when I posted this. I think for how long it was, I have a pretty good ratio of being grammatically correct.

            Jose
            My Religion is the Beat

            --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, its_just_me_nancy <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > wow.. that is a testimony.
            > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "applebiter801"
            > <applebiter801@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Everybody, sorry I've been hit and miss. I'm a private contractor in
            > Afghanistan and some of my days can be pretty busy.
            > >
            > > I posted by testimony once before but I was very vague as to who I was
            > and who the men in question were. I'm going to re-post my testimony
            > because something Ken said, about not being true to himself by hiding
            > his identity (paraphrasing) kind of stuck nerve with me.
            > >
            > > Also, I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt that my experience happened
            > exactly as I'm going to describe it. I will name names of adults because
            > I am not concerned with hiding or not exposing what happens. Enough lies
            > have been said about me over the pulpit that I am not even concerned
            > with posting the truth.
            > >
            > > What really spurred me getting back on the website was my wife and I
            > attempted to reconcile but her allegiance to CFM is unwavering. At
            > first, I did not make any demands of her leaving but once she started
            > making demands from me, I reasoned that her behavior is exactly the same
            > as it was that caused us to separate in the first place. It's something
            > I blame her indoctrination for and it was proven true when I mentioned a
            > single item about CFM (who are you to tell me who I can be friends with
            > when you're still going to CFM and even worse, taking my kids there).
            > One mention of CFM from me and she lost it and it started a 5-day
            > argument. Anyhow, how did it get to this point? Here's hoping for some
            > catharsis.
            > >
            > > My name is Jose Gutierrez; I grew up in the San Diego Potters House
            > under Rick Buchholz ministry when he replaced another pastor in San
            > Diego (Mexican gentleman his wife's name was Bobbi). Doing the typical
            > CFM youth thing, I completely rebelled as a teenager.
            > >
            > > When I was 19, I joined the USAF in 1991 and was stationed at Hill AFB
            > near Ogden, UT. Being alone in a strange place I sought out some
            > familiarity so I sporadically attended the Potters House on Grant and
            > Monroe St. At the time there was a Pastor there named McPherson. Soon
            > after, the church split happened, McPherson left and Glen Cluck took his
            > place. I was still off and on but in April of 2001, I "locked-in" under
            > Cluck's ministry. I met a local girl, was married, and did the whole
            > cookie cutter disciple thing. Youth leader, rapper, drama team, bible
            > study leader, etc. During this time, despite negative encouragement from
            > some of my "brethren" I still went to school and eventually earned my
            > Bachelors and in time, my Masters.
            > >
            > > In time, Cluck was called to "rescue" the church in Guam. I guess the
            > pastor there was busted with porn (how many haven't been busted). Cluck
            > was replaced by a man named Rick Martinez. Things went along as normal,
            > continuing to grow and take on responsibility. In time, the USAF took me
            > to Guam for a two-year assignment. I'll fast forward to the fallout:
            > >
            > > Shortly after arriving on Guam, Cluck was called to "rescue" the
            > church in the Philippines (lots of revenue) and he was replaced by a man
            > named Bob McGinnis (the current pastor in NM).
            > >
            > > One of the young girls from a broken home in the fellowship grew close
            > to me, my wife, and son. We supported her, took her to lunch and dinner,
            > sometimes she stayed the night, and her father would ask if we could
            > give her rides. Normal fellowship behavior that I had confirmed she was
            > also doing with another couple in the church.
            > >
            > > One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to
            > speak to me after service. When I approached the altar after the service
            > had concluded, he immediately began the attack. Bob basically accused me
            > of having an inappropriate relationship with her and accused me of doing
            > all I could to ensure she was attracted to me. He said, I've been
            > preaching about it and you did nothing to change. I said, I wasn't doing
            > those things you were preaching on. I never talked to her on the phone
            > at night (or at all except for one time I was working late and she
            > called to see if I was coming to church because she had left something
            > in my car). I told Bob that my wife never sat in the car waiting for me
            > to finish talking/flirting with anyone. I always brought the car around.
            > I continued to try to defend myself but he kept brining baseless
            > allegations against me until I finally just stopped and let him
            > continue.
            > >
            > > So I took the rebuke and "kept my heart right". Shortly after I
            > separated from the USAF and relocated back to Ogden. When I got back
            > Martinez and I went out to dinner with our wives and he told me he
            > needed to raise men up to be launched out. I told him I was willing to
            > go anywhere God wanted to send me. When I relayed this message to a
            > friend on Guam about finally being in a position to really be used by
            > Guam (talking about being out of the military), Glen and Bob distorted
            > my message over the pulpit and claimed I was badmouthing their church.
            > Many of the 500 members I had gotten used to were immediately forbade to
            > have any contact with me. NOBODY ever once contacted me again. Not even
            > when my Airman, who I brought out to church repeatedly was killed while
            > on deployment.
            > >
            > > Cluck told Martinez something when they were at conference. When
            > Martinez got back he told me to avoid Guam. I found out what was being
            > said because the lies had spread to my mom's church in San Diego
            > > So I said "fuck it", I'm out of this place. I went to Iraq and decided
            > I wasn't going to preach.
            > >
            > > My wife lost her mind, constantly belittled me and accused me of not
            > being a "real man" and being gone too often. I eventually quit Iraq and
            > was home but that wasn't good enough because I wasn't in church. The
            > fights and belittling continued. Within 6 months of me being home, we
            > separated*. When Martinez called me and asked me what happened, I told
            > him the whole story (everything I typed here). He said McGinnis was
            > right to rebuke me. If before I was teetering no my choice, at that
            > point, I was gone for good.
            > >
            > > If you read this far, thank you. I know it's a lot of information. I
            > included names and time frames because I know what happened and what I
            > was falsely accused of. Any way you slice it, when you accuse a 27 year
            > old man of having an inappropriate, sexual attraction to a child, you're
            > calling him a pedophile. That's exactly what Bob McGinnis did. Glen
            > Cluck, Rick Martinez, and my estranged wife support this man and nobody
            > has held any of them accountable for their lies. I will not support
            > them, join them, or be linked to them in any way, shape, or form.
            > Unfortuneately, my estranged wife is too influenced by them and will
            > never leave. Therefore, we will never be.
            > >
            > > That's my story.
            > >
            > > *Yes, if you know me or my estranged wife you'll know I moved out of
            > my house, moved into my own apartment, and attempted to move on with my
            > life. I met a girl and I began dating her before my divorce was final.
            > My estranged wife was pregnant at the time and I know it reflects poorly
            > on me but I have bank statements that show, even to this day, she has
            > had very little income yet lives in a brand new 6 bedroom 3 bathroom
            > house and drives a 2008 Special Edition 4Runner. I may have left my
            > marriage but I never abandoned my kids (or her for that matter). They
            > have never gone without and nobody will ever be able to accuse me of
            > that.
            > >
            >
          • applebiter801
            George Thanks for the insight. The further I get away from CFM the more I wonder how the hell I ever got into it in the first place (I m sure being
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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              George

              Thanks for the insight. The further I get away from CFM the more I wonder how the hell I ever got into it in the first place (I'm sure being indoctrinated from my youth had something to do with it).

              It's crazy to me how everything is a curse. Withhold the tithe and you're cursed. Talk about the "man of God" and you're cursed. Don't give a love offering to an evangelist and the revival leaves with him so you're cursed. It's all one big control scheme and I've been happiest I've ever been (minus the dissolution of my marriage) since I've been out.

              Jose
              My Religion is the Beat

              --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, potkonyak <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jose
              >
              > I will tell you what really happened in your ordeal with your 'headship'. It is nothing to do with your alleged affair with that young girl. Cluck was not happy with your level of giving. It appears you were earning well above average income and he expected quite heavy 'offerings besides'. Most probably your wife spoke to your pastor's wife and told her that you are the one holding back God's money. Also, you can bet your wife was giving in addition to what you were giving but it was not enough. They wanted to separate you two, knowing that you will continue supporting your wife and kids generously, with them ripping her off - generously.
              >
              > But you haven't seen everything yet: [1] they will get your wife to divorce you and to `give to God' a good chunk of what you were working for all your life; [2] they will turn your children against you. Just watch them!
              >
              > Shalom,
              > george
              >
            • kenhaining777
              [Hi Jose I will tell you what really happened in your ordeal with your headship . It is nothing to do with your alleged affair with that young girl. Cluck was
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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                [Hi Jose

                I will tell you what really happened in your ordeal with your 'headship'. It is
                nothing to do with your alleged affair with that young girl. Cluck was not
                happy with your level of giving. It appears you were earning well above average
                income and he expected quite heavy 'offerings besides'. Most probably your wife
                spoke to your pastor's wife and told her that you are the one holding back God's
                money. Also, you can bet your wife was giving in addition to what you were
                giving but it was not enough. They wanted to separate you two, knowing that you
                will continue supporting your wife and kids generously, with them ripping her
                off - generously.

                But you haven't seen everything yet: [1] they will get your wife to divorce you
                and to `give to God' a good chunk of what you were working for all your life;
                [2] they will turn your children against you. Just watch them!

                Shalom,
                george]

                Unfortunately, here in the United States, how child support is spent is not regulated.  When the fellowship breaks up a marriage, and they keep the wife and kids in the church, the money that the father is sending to support his children can largely end up in the offering plate.  To say that's wrong would be an understatement.  Of course, fellowship gurus will tell these followers that this will actually bring a greater blessing on those children.  Thus these gurus add to their own wickedness.  And for a pretense they make long, droning prayers. 

                Shalom
                Ken




              • kenhaining777
                applebiter said: [One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to speak to me after service. When I approached the altar after the
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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                  applebiter said:

                  [One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to speak to
                  me after service. When I approached the altar after the service had concluded,
                  he immediately began the attack. Bob basically accused me of having an
                  inappropriate relationship with her and accused me of doing all I could to
                  ensure she was attracted to me. He said, I've been preaching about it and you
                  did nothing to change. I said, I wasn't doing those things you were preaching
                  on. I never talked to her on the phone at night (or at all except for one time
                  I was working late and she called to see if I was coming to church because she
                  had left something in my car). I told Bob that my wife never sat in the car
                  waiting for me to finish talking/flirting with anyone. I always brought the car
                  around. I continued to try to defend myself but he kept brining baseless
                  allegations against me until I finally just stopped and let him continue.]

                  Once these guys, the pastors and leaders, make up their mind that you are "sinning" in some way, any attempt you make to refute their accusation is seen as rebellion and pride.  It is the old "kangaroo court" routine.  You are not allowed to make any defense of yourself and your actions, and are expected to accept the rebuke contritely and with a meek spirit.  It is total trash, but, it is the Wayman Way.  Are you questioning the "man of God"?  How dare you!

                  Unrighteous accusations made by pastors and leaders have actually been the means of delivering many people from the fellowship of Waymanchrist.  Ironically, this can turn out to be very fortunate, and spare someone more years in that religious black hole.  When someone is accused of something that they absolutely did not do by the pastor, it brings a revelation that this pastor guy is off the wall and is certainly not speaking for God.  Albeit, there are some who are so beaten down that they will just bow to the pastor, and forsake reality, but if a man or woman has any spark of self respect left they will come to a place where they just have to get out.  It just gets too stupid, too corrupt, and too wicked to put up with any more. 

                  If, when a pastor was doing this false accusation stuff, the accused man would say something like, "You know, pastor, this is slander, and if you don't shut up I am going to file a slander law suit on you," the pastor would probably wet his pants.  However, most members of the church don't have the presence of mind to say anything like that.  Still, it would be amusing if it happened at least once in a while.  In any event, no one should put up with that kind of insane abuse.  I also wish someone would say something like, "Well, since you have refused to hear the truth, pastor, I am leaving this church.  And if you preach about me, and speak any of these lies over the pulpit, I will sue you into the ground, even if you don't say my name."  Again, most don't have the presence of mind to say anything like that after years of being beaten down by Wayman's religious system.  Still, it is fun to consider. 

                  Shalom
                  Ken



                • Shazzam
                  Thanks for sharing Applebiter. Same sort of thing happened to me. Different circumstance but the best thing that happened to me while in PH was when the pastor
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 27, 2013
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                    Thanks for sharing Applebiter.

                    Same sort of thing happened to me. Different circumstance but the best thing that happened to me while in PH was when the pastor was berating me after a revival service as I was off sick. I finally got angry and pissed off enough to respond. That took him by surprise and he changed his tone. In that moment I saw thru the whole thing. God used that to break me free from their controlling influence. Since leaving my life has gotten better. I cringe to think that I may have still been stuck in that religious prison.

                    You got my Support bro!

                    --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > applebiter said:
                    >
                    > [One night before service Bob pulled me aside and told me he needed to
                    > speak to
                    > me after service. When I approached the altar after the service had
                    > concluded,
                    > he immediately began the attack. Bob basically accused me of having an
                    > inappropriate relationship with her and accused me of doing all I could
                    > to
                    > ensure she was attracted to me. He said, I've been preaching about it
                    > and you
                    > did nothing to change. I said, I wasn't doing those things you were
                    > preaching
                    > on. I never talked to her on the phone at night (or at all except for
                    > one time
                    > I was working late and she called to see if I was coming to church
                    > because she
                    > had left something in my car). I told Bob that my wife never sat in the
                    > car
                    > waiting for me to finish talking/flirting with anyone. I always brought
                    > the car
                    > around. I continued to try to defend myself but he kept brining baseless
                    > allegations against me until I finally just stopped and let him
                    > continue.]
                    >
                    > Once these guys, the pastors and leaders, make up their mind that you
                    > are "sinning" in some way, any attempt you make to refute their
                    > accusation is seen as rebellion and pride. It is the old "kangaroo
                    > court" routine. You are not allowed to make any defense of yourself and
                    > your actions, and are expected to accept the rebuke contritely and with
                    > a meek spirit. It is total trash, but, it is the Wayman Way. Are you
                    > questioning the "man of God"? How dare you!
                    >
                    > Unrighteous accusations made by pastors and leaders have actually been
                    > the means of delivering many people from the fellowship of Waymanchrist.
                    > Ironically, this can turn out to be very fortunate, and spare someone
                    > more years in that religious black hole. When someone is accused of
                    > something that they absolutely did not do by the pastor, it brings a
                    > revelation that this pastor guy is off the wall and is certainly not
                    > speaking for God. Albeit, there are some who are so beaten down that
                    > they will just bow to the pastor, and forsake reality, but if a man or
                    > woman has any spark of self respect left they will come to a place where
                    > they just have to get out. It just gets too stupid, too corrupt, and
                    > too wicked to put up with any more.
                    >
                    > If, when a pastor was doing this false accusation stuff, the accused man
                    > would say something like, "You know, pastor, this is slander, and if you
                    > don't shut up I am going to file a slander law suit on you," the pastor
                    > would probably wet his pants. However, most members of the church don't
                    > have the presence of mind to say anything like that. Still, it would be
                    > amusing if it happened at least once in a while. In any event, no one
                    > should put up with that kind of insane abuse. I also wish someone would
                    > say something like, "Well, since you have refused to hear the truth,
                    > pastor, I am leaving this church. And if you preach about me, and speak
                    > any of these lies over the pulpit, I will sue you into the ground, even
                    > if you don't say my name." Again, most don't have the presence of mind
                    > to say anything like that after years of being beaten down by Wayman's
                    > religious system. Still, it is fun to consider.
                    >
                    > Shalom
                    > Ken
                    >
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