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Re: Australian Fellowship

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  • kenhaining777
    lashanda said: [Oops it looks like my message didn t come out... I originally said that Tilli was not sacked but resigned.. Mitchell had found damning evidence
    Message 1 of 27 , Feb 12, 2013
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      lashanda said:

      [Oops it looks like my message didn't come out...
      I originally said that Tilli was not sacked but resigned.. Mitchell had found
      damning evidence that he had been involved in homosexual activities (including a
      letter from his gay partner). When confronted with it he neither denied or
      confirmed it but resigned.. His family is devastated but his wife has chosen to
      stand by him.. However none of his family is allowed back in church for the time
      being. His replacement is Eliott who was the assistant in Beechborro..]

      Being pushed into a corner like that and then resigning is pretty much the same as being ousted.  He made the wise choice not to get into a protracted battle with Waymanchrist and his legions. 

      It makes sense to me that they would not want him around.  What an embarrassment he must be to Lord Wayman.  I am sure that the current leadership is blaming the previous leadership for allowing a homosexual to have "ministry" for so long in the Australian branch of Waymanland.  Vicary, and even Mastin, will take the hit for not dealing with the situation, even though Mastin seemed to be in a compromised situation when trying to deal with Tilli.  "God is cleaning house," will most likely be the mantra, and it will be credited to the new and improved leadership that Wayman in his infinite wisdom has brought about. 

      Who obtained the letter from Tilli's lover?  Was he a guy in the church?  I wonder if his wife busted him

      Wayman and his leaders are probably hoping that Tilli will fade into the mists.  Would they ever trust him to pastor again?  Not likely.  So they want him to just go away.  I wonder who is next on the hit list of The Little Big Man?

      Shalom
      Ken


    • lashanda_d21
      I may be wrong, but from what I ve heard it was David Curwan-Walker who brought it to Mitchell s attention which led to Mitchell leading an investigation that
      Message 2 of 27 , Feb 12, 2013
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        I may be wrong, but from what I've heard it was David Curwan-Walker who brought it to Mitchell's attention which led to Mitchell leading an investigation that lasted months. Mitchell also has many letters from pastors who have heard or witnessed something and even has a letter from Tilli's partners boss who had also seen things! This is as much as I know so far..


        --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 wrote:
        >
        > lashanda said:
        >
        > [Oops it looks like my message didn't come out...
        > I originally said that Tilli was not sacked but resigned.. Mitchell had
        > found
        > damning evidence that he had been involved in homosexual activities
        > (including a
        > letter from his gay partner). When confronted with it he neither denied
        > or
        > confirmed it but resigned.. His family is devastated but his wife has
        > chosen to
        > stand by him.. However none of his family is allowed back in church for
        > the time
        > being. His replacement is Eliott who was the assistant in Beechborro..]
        >
        > Being pushed into a corner like that and then resigning is pretty much
        > the same as being ousted. He made the wise choice not to get into a
        > protracted battle with Waymanchrist and his legions.
        >
        > It makes sense to me that they would not want him around. What an
        > embarrassment he must be to Lord Wayman. I am sure that the current
        > leadership is blaming the previous leadership for allowing a homosexual
        > to have "ministry" for so long in the Australian branch of Waymanland.
        > Vicary, and even Mastin, will take the hit for not dealing with the
        > situation, even though Mastin seemed to be in a compromised situation
        > when trying to deal with Tilli. "God is cleaning house," will most
        > likely be the mantra, and it will be credited to the new and improved
        > leadership that Wayman in his infinite wisdom has brought about.
        >
        > Who obtained the letter from Tilli's lover? Was he a guy in the church?
        > I wonder if his wife busted him?
        >
        > Wayman and his leaders are probably hoping that Tilli will fade into the
        > mists. Would they ever trust him to pastor again? Not likely. So they
        > want him to just go away. I wonder who is next on the hit list of The
        > Little Big Man?
        >
        > Shalom
        > Ken
        >
      • kenhaining777
        This was in my mail box from anonuser7500. You have to join the group to have messages post. Otherwise they just go into my mail box.
        Message 3 of 27 , Feb 12, 2013
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          This was in  my mail box from anonuser7500.  You have to join the group to have messages post.  Otherwise they just go into my mail box. 

          *******************************************************


          The official reason is embezzling church funds.. most likely true.

          The actual reason is sexual infidelity.. with a man.

          --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, girlperth  wrote:
          >
          > Apparently Anthony Tilli Pastor of the Footscray Vic church in Aus has been sacked. Officially it's for embezzling church funds however that has been common knowledge for years which makes one wonder what the real reason is. Either way I think the Aus fellowship is in for a bit of a shake up... again.
          >

        • daveperth4
          ... boys? heh.. what, no word of prophecy regarding this? Where was Glenn Cluck when you really need him? This whole thing reminds me of the futility of altar
          Message 4 of 27 , Feb 13, 2013
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            --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777  wrote:

            > Where was this much vaunted "discernment" claimed by
            > Wayman and the boys?

            heh.. what, no word of prophecy regarding this? Where was Glenn Cluck when you really need him? 

            This whole thing reminds me of the futility of altar calls. The typical Potters House disciple is like Jekyll and Hyde: you have an alter ego that you hate and feel guilty about. As Paul says, the flesh lusts against the spirit (to my understanding, this was a common philosophical concept even before Paul 'christianized' it). 

            Service after service, disciples cry out to God to help them with their various sins and vices. Yet rarely does anything change. Years later, they're still fighting the same old sins. Still trying to pray the gay away, pray away a bad temper, or lust.

            The average disciple/pastor honestly believes their sins are wrong, yet can't help indulging at times. They feel guilty, pray at the altar, and they're all set for another month. Until they feel the pull of the 'flesh' once more. It's just an endless cycle, they keep hoping to experience some divine intervention that magically removes their Hyde nature.

            What aggravates me is all the tattle-taling up the line to Mitchell. I wonder how many "dirt dossiers" Wayman has on different pastors by now?

            --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777  wrote:
            >
            > It would be a very dubious situation to be coming back to the home
            > church for "redirection," and having it known you were busted for
            > homosexuality.

            The atmosphere of CFM automatically filters out those it disapproves of. Long-term members who get divorced, prominent pastors who get caught in major sins, homosexuality, etc. The Fellowship generally shuns the people it theoretically should be helping, so these people are too ashamed to stay in the church.
            I highly doubt the Tillis will return to Beechboro. Though they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they return, it would just be humiliating...despite putting on a brave face of "doing what's right by God". If they don't return, then of course here come the accusations of rebellion and disobeying headship.
            Like others whom the Fellowship has filtered out, perhaps the Tillis will find a more balanced church in their own city.

            I hope things work out for them, but there's also the possibility that it won't. I deal with a lot of the public in my workplace, and have access to various personal records. It baffles me the guts that new transsexuals in particular have. They've submitted to me letters from their doctor declaring that they have had gender re-assignment. Many walk up to me with their heads down, embarrassed. Others have poorly done make-up and still sound like men. But what baffles me is the fact that they are willing to put up with this constant embarrassment. Their desire for this image/sexuality is so ingrained that they can't seem to deny it, no matter the cost.

            I don't have the answers as to why people feel the need to do this. A christian would say these people just need to get saved. Well, a conversion experience may help for a time, but clearly it only works with a select few. 
            The fact that there are so many "gay christians" also shows that there are many gays that feel so strongly that their homosexuality is inherent, that they're willing to twist the Bible to suit them, not vice versa. 
            You'd think if God hated homosexuality so much, he would not have allowed any chance of cross-gender confusion. We'd be born distinctly male or female. Instead, humans seem to have this spectrum of grey area in-between, to the point of babies being born with both male and female sex organs. What a mess.
          • Heidi Shepherd
            The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I was always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i didn t, i
            Message 5 of 27 , Feb 13, 2013
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              The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I was always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i didn't, i stayed in my seat.

              When the church got bigger and moved into a much larger facility something changed. It didn't matter what the sermon was about, almost everyone went to the altar. It became a show, so that others could see if you were paying attention.
              My oldest daughter was in the teen ministry, cess pool that it was, and the leaders encouraged the teens to go to the altar every time. Once, after a sermon that was aimed at married couples and nobody else, my daughter stayed in her seat. A leaders wife then came up to her and scolded her for not going to the altar. She told her that she didn't feel convicted by the sermon and didn't see the need to go. The leaders wife told her she could just pray for the people that were up there.
              My daughter was upset at being scolded for this and told me and my husband at the time. He went to both leaders of the teens and told them to stop trying to be the holy spirit. Our daughter goes to the altar when God convicts her, nothing else.

              I think the two things that bothered me the most in that church was the pastor worship and the abuse of the altar call.

              My son was 10 when he was scolded by the pastor in front of the congregation for not taking the altar call seriously. His crime? Bouncing on his feet and looking around. Altar calls lasted a minimum of a half hour, my son went to the altar to pray, but wasn't allowed to go back to his seat while the altar call was going on. 

              I was told later that my son was dying in his sin. A 10 year old that can't stand still for 30 minutes....i still wonder why i put up with that nonsense for as long as i did.

              On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 AM, "daveperth4" <prizm4@...> wrote:
               


              --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777  wrote:

              > Where was this much vaunted "discernment" claimed by
              > Wayman and the boys?

              heh.. what, no word of prophecy regarding this? Where was Glenn Cluck when you really need him? 

              This whole thing reminds me of the futility of altar calls. The typical Potters House disciple is like Jekyll and Hyde: you have an alter ego that you hate and feel guilty about. As Paul says, the flesh lusts against the spirit (to my understanding, this was a common philosophical concept even before Paul 'christianized' it). 

              Service after service, disciples cry out to God to help them with their various sins and vices. Yet rarely does anything change. Years later, they're still fighting the same old sins. Still trying to pray the gay away, pray away a bad temper, or lust.

              The average disciple/pastor honestly believes their sins are wrong, yet can't help indulging at times. They feel guilty, pray at the altar, and they're all set for another month. Until they feel the pull of the 'flesh' once more. It's just an endless cycle, they keep hoping to experience some divine intervention that magically removes their Hyde nature.

              What aggravates me is all the tattle-taling up the line to Mitchell. I wonder how many "dirt dossiers" Wayman has on different pastors by now?

              --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777  wrote:
              >
              > It would be a very dubious situation to be coming back to the home
              > church for "redirection," and having it known you were busted for
              > homosexuality.

              The atmosphere of CFM automatically filters out those it disapproves of. Long-term members who get divorced, prominent pastors who get caught in major sins, homosexuality, etc. The Fellowship generally shuns the people it theoretically should be helping, so these people are too ashamed to stay in the church.
              I highly doubt the Tillis will return to Beechboro. Though they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they return, it would just be humiliating...despite putting on a brave face of "doing what's right by God". If they don't return, then of course here come the accusations of rebellion and disobeying headship.
              Like others whom the Fellowship has filtered out, perhaps the Tillis will find a more balanced church in their own city.

              I hope things work out for them, but there's also the possibility that it won't. I deal with a lot of the public in my workplace, and have access to various personal records. It baffles me the guts that new transsexuals in particular have. They've submitted to me letters from their doctor declaring that they have had gender re-assignment. Many walk up to me with their heads down, embarrassed. Others have poorly done make-up and still sound like men. But what baffles me is the fact that they are willing to put up with this constant embarrassment. Their desire for this image/sexuality is so ingrained that they can't seem to deny it, no matter the cost.

              I don't have the answers as to why people feel the need to do this. A christian would say these people just need to get saved. Well, a conversion experience may help for a time, but clearly it only works with a select few. 
              The fact that there are so many "gay christians" also shows that there are many gays that feel so strongly that their homosexuality is inherent, that they're willing to twist the Bible to suit them, not vice versa. 
              You'd think if God hated homosexuality so much, he would not have allowed any chance of cross-gender confusion. We'd be born distinctly male or female. Instead, humans seem to have this spectrum of grey area in-between, to the point of babies being born with both male and female sex organs. What a mess.
            • Garthe
              Hi Ken Not sure if I am still a member here. but the emails keep turning up in my Yahoo mailbox which I rarely look at these days. Tilli story is a cracker.
              Message 6 of 27 , Feb 15, 2013
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                Hi Ken
                Not sure if I am still a member here. but the emails keep turning up in my Yahoo mailbox which I rarely look at these days. Tilli story is a cracker. Not that there weren't rumours even back in my day ( I left 1996 approx). PH was always full of rumours then, as probably still is. still you had to be a man's man and to be a man of different sexual preference was not real popular! Accused of embezzlement. that is probably a badge of honour! Only the successful preachers got accused of that when they left in my day. as for DV and money. I think he is a pretty ethical guy. Sure he was a bastard (so was I!) when he was in but a few years out of it will have made him a lot better. I don't buy the pentecostal fundamentalist deal at all these days but I think many are sincere in their craziness. Have been to DV's church twice . When it opened) and when Greg Johnson came over. Greg seemed a nice guy, and Mike Mastin has mellowed a lot as well. Still I have not been involved in religion for 10 years and happier for it.
                I work in Perth CBD. Every Tuesday there is a bunch of nutters street preaching in Forrest Place. I wonder if they are a new generation of PH or just another crazy church?
                Hope I have not left enough clues for any Potties to work out who I am LOL

                garthe

                --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > This was in my mail box from anonuser7500. You have to join the group
                > to have messages post. Otherwise they just go into my mail box.
                >
                > *******************************************************
                >
                >
                > The official reason is embezzling church funds.. most likely true.
                >
                > The actual reason is sexual infidelity.. with a man.
                >
                > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com> , girlperth wrote:
                > >
                > > Apparently Anthony Tilli Pastor of the Footscray Vic church in Aus
                > has been sacked. Officially it's for embezzling church funds however
                > that has been common knowledge for years which makes one wonder what
                > the real reason is. Either way I think the Aus fellowship is in for a
                > bit of a shake up... again.
                > >
                >
              • kenhaining777
                garthe said: [Hi Ken Not sure if I am still a member here. but the emails keep turning up in my Yahoo mailbox which I rarely look at these days.] Apparently
                Message 7 of 27 , Feb 15, 2013
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                  garthe said:

                  [Hi Ken
                  Not sure if I am still a member here. but the emails keep turning up in my
                  Yahoo mailbox which I rarely look at these days.]

                  Apparently you are still a member as your posts are coming through fine.  I rarely delete any memberships as sometimes people pop in after being gone a few years.

                  Because the Cracked Pots message board has no moderator it is flooded with Spam.  Too hard to keep up with it, and also any psycho potterhead could show up and be as nasty as they wanted with ex members.  Nick of Lismore was the leader of that sort.  However, there seems to have been a real push to get everyone off the internet, and Wayman even has preached about staying off of blogs.  So, Nick and ilk have vanished as far as I can tell, and are not even on Facebook any more. 

                  Anyway, welcome back.  Feel free to comment.  I understand that most ex members have better things to do than talk about their experiences in Wayman's World and the getting out experience.  I tend to maintain an interest in it and the larger issue of man and religion.  It is also interesting for me to see what ex members believe and are thinking after they have been out for an extended period of time. 

                  Shalom
                  Ken




                • its_just_me_nancy
                  Heidi wrote: I was told later that my son was dying in his sin. A 10 year old that can t stand still for 30 minutes....i still wonder why i put up with that
                  Message 8 of 27 , Feb 15, 2013
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                    Heidi wrote:

                    I was told later that my son was dying in his sin. A 10 year old that can't stand still for 30 minutes....i still wonder why i put up with that nonsense for as long as i did.

                    Those dip-shit's told you that a 10 year old was dying in his sin?????

                    My God. 

                    When I think I have heard it all, something else comes along to blow my mind.

                    Don't be hard on yourself though. I am sure ALL of us wonder why we put up with the nonsense as long as we did. I sure do.

                    You hang in there girl!

                    Peace, Nancy

                    <br>--- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, Heidi Shepherd <nodakgrl@...> wrote:<br>><br>> The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I was<br>> always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i<br>> didn't, i stayed in my seat.<br>> <br>> When the church got bigger and moved into a much larger facility something<br>> changed. It didn't matter what the sermon was about, almost everyone went<br>> to the altar. It became a show, so that others could see if you were paying<br>> attention.<br>> My oldest daughter was in the teen ministry, cess pool that it was, and the<br>> leaders encouraged the teens to go to the altar every time. Once, after a<br>> sermon that was aimed at married couples and nobody else, my daughter<br>> stayed in her seat. A leaders wife then came up to her and scolded her for<br>> not going to the altar. She told her that she didn't feel convicted by the<br>> sermon and didn't see the need to go. The leaders wife told her she could<br>> just pray for the people that were up there.<br>> My daughter was upset at being scolded for this and told me and my husband<br>> at the time. He went to both leaders of the teens and told them to stop<br>> trying to be the holy spirit. Our daughter goes to the altar when God<br>> convicts her, nothing else.<br>> <br>> I think the two things that bothered me the most in that church was the<br>> pastor worship and the abuse of the altar call.<br>> <br>> My son was 10 when he was scolded by the pastor in front of the<br>> congregation for not taking the altar call seriously. His crime? Bouncing<br>> on his feet and looking around. Altar calls lasted a minimum of a half<br>> hour, my son went to the altar to pray, but wasn't allowed to go back to<br>> his seat while the altar call was going on.<br>> <br>> I was told later that my son was dying in his sin. A 10 year old that can't<br>> stand still for 30 minutes....i still wonder why i put up with that<br>> nonsense for as long as i did.<br>> On Feb 13, 2013 9:54 AM, "daveperth4" prizm4@... wrote:<br>> <br>> > **<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > Where was this much vaunted "discernment" claimed by<br>> > > Wayman and the boys?<br>> ><br>> > heh.. what, no word of prophecy regarding this? Where was Glenn Cluck when<br>> > you really need him?<br>> ><br>> > This whole thing reminds me of the futility of altar calls. The typical<br>> > Potters House disciple is like Jekyll and Hyde: you have an alter ego that<br>> > you hate and feel guilty about. As Paul says, the flesh lusts against the<br>> > spirit (to my understanding, this was a common philosophical concept even<br>> > before Paul 'christianized' it).<br>> ><br>> > Service after service, disciples cry out to God to help them with their<br>> > various sins and vices. Yet rarely does anything change. Years later,<br>> > they're still fighting the same old sins. Still trying to pray the gay<br>> > away, pray away a bad temper, or lust.<br>> ><br>> > The average disciple/pastor honestly believes their sins are wrong, yet<br>> > can't help indulging at times. They feel guilty, pray at the altar, and<br>> > they're all set for another month. Until they feel the pull of the 'flesh'<br>> > once more. It's just an endless cycle, they keep hoping to experience some<br>> > divine intervention that magically removes their Hyde nature.<br>> ><br>> > What aggravates me is all the tattle-taling up the line to Mitchell. I<br>> > wonder how many "dirt dossiers" Wayman has on different pastors by now?<br>> ><br>> > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > It would be a very dubious situation to be coming back to the home<br>> > > church for "redirection," and having it known you were busted for<br>> > > homosexuality.<br>> ><br>> > The atmosphere of CFM automatically filters out those it disapproves of.<br>> > Long-term members who get divorced, prominent pastors who get caught in<br>> > major sins, homosexuality, etc. The Fellowship generally shuns the people<br>> > it theoretically should be helping, so these people are too ashamed to stay<br>> > in the church.<br>> > I highly doubt the Tillis will return to Beechboro. Though they're damned<br>> > if they do and damned if they don't. If they return, it would just be<br>> > humiliating...despite putting on a brave face of "doing what's right by<br>> > God". If they don't return, then of course here come the accusations of<br>> > rebellion and disobeying headship.<br>> > Like others whom the Fellowship has filtered out, perhaps the Tillis will<br>> > find a more balanced church in their own city.<br>> ><br>> > I hope things work out for them, but there's also the possibility that it<br>> > won't. I deal with a lot of the public in my workplace, and have access to<br>> > various personal records. It baffles me the guts that new transsexuals in<br>> > particular have. They've submitted to me letters from their doctor<br>> > declaring that they have had gender re-assignment. Many walk up to me with<br>> > their heads down, embarrassed. Others have poorly done make-up and still<br>> > sound like men. But what baffles me is the fact that they are willing to<br>> > put up with this constant embarrassment. Their desire for this<br>> > image/sexuality is so ingrained that they can't seem to deny it, no matter<br>> > the cost.<br>> ><br>> > I don't have the answers as to why people feel the need to do this. A<br>> > christian would say these people just need to get saved. Well, a conversion<br>> > experience may help for a time, but clearly it only works with a select<br>> > few.<br>> > The fact that there are so many "gay christians" also shows that there are<br>> > many gays that feel so strongly that their homosexuality is inherent, that<br>> > they're willing to twist the Bible to suit them, not vice versa.<br>> > You'd think if God hated homosexuality so much, he would not have allowed<br>> > any chance of cross-gender confusion. We'd be born distinctly male or<br>> > female. Instead, humans seem to have this spectrum of grey area in-between,<br>> > to the point of babies being born with both male and female sex organs. What<br>> > a mess.<br>> > <br>> ><br>><br>

                  • kenhaining777
                    Heidi said: [The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I was always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i
                    Message 9 of 27 , Feb 16, 2013
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                      Heidi said:

                      [The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I was always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i didn't, i stayed in my seat. When the church got bigger and moved into a much larger facility something changed. It didn't matter what the sermon was about, almost everyone went to the altar. It became a show, so that others could see if you were paying attention.]

                      In the fellowship the "success" of a sermon was measured in how many answered the altar call.  If you, as the preacher, had "real impact," then of course the altar would be filled. 

                      I remember when Harold Warner came back from preaching in Australia for an Assemblies pastor who hooked up with the fellowship for a short time.  After he preached a Sunday morning service back in Tucson, he told me that it was such a relief to be back, and said something like, "where people are properly trained to answer the altar call."  The word "trained" jumped out at me when he said that.  Another one of those many wake up calls that I should have heeded.  Like trained animals, fellowship members head to the altar to, once again, "get their hearts right with God."  It is yet another psychological device to keep people dependent on this phony "ministry" stuff.  As it has been noted, people would answer the altar calls for the same reasons, over and over again during their years and decades in Waymanland, without any real change.

                      Some so called pastors would get furious if not enough people answered the altar call.  They would also get angry if they thought that certain people should be repenting, as they had tailored the sermon to those people.  They saw them as "resisting the Holy Spirit" and all that other nonsense.  They were just resisting a lousy sermon. 

                      I had never heard of a demand for all the people to answer the altar calls all the time.  But, that dude in Florida is a trip, even for a fellowship pastor, based on what people have written about him here.  If he ever crosses The Little Big Man, there will be no shortage of ammunition to justify his removal. 

                      Shalom
                      Ken



                    • applebiter801
                      I recall plenty of altar calls where if members didn t respond, the pastor would goad them until the altar call would fill up. What a sham.
                      Message 10 of 27 , Feb 24, 2013
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                        I recall plenty of altar calls where if members didn't respond, the pastor would goad them until the altar call would fill up. What a sham.

                        --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Heidi said:
                        >
                        > [The altar call used to be a scared thing when i first started going. I
                        > was always in the mindset that if i needed it, i went to the altar, if i
                        > didn't, i stayed in my seat. When the church got bigger and moved into
                        > a much larger facility something changed. It didn't matter what the
                        > sermon was about, almost everyone went to the altar. It became a show,
                        > so that others could see if you were paying attention.]
                        >
                        > In the fellowship the "success" of a sermon was measured in how many
                        > answered the altar call. If you, as the preacher, had "real impact,"
                        > then of course the altar would be filled.
                        >
                        > I remember when Harold Warner came back from preaching in Australia for
                        > an Assemblies pastor who hooked up with the fellowship for a short time.
                        > After he preached a Sunday morning service back in Tucson, he told me
                        > that it was such a relief to be back, and said something like, "where
                        > people are properly trained to answer the altar call." The word
                        > "trained" jumped out at me when he said that. Another one of those many
                        > wake up calls that I should have heeded. Like trained animals,
                        > fellowship members head to the altar to, once again, "get their hearts
                        > right with God." It is yet another psychological device to keep people
                        > dependent on this phony "ministry" stuff. As it has been noted, people
                        > would answer the altar calls for the same reasons, over and over again
                        > during their years and decades in Waymanland, without any real change.
                        >
                        > Some so called pastors would get furious if not enough people answered
                        > the altar call. They would also get angry if they thought that certain
                        > people should be repenting, as they had tailored the sermon to those
                        > people. They saw them as "resisting the Holy Spirit" and all that other
                        > nonsense. They were just resisting a lousy sermon.
                        >
                        > I had never heard of a demand for all the people to answer the altar
                        > calls all the time. But, that dude in Florida is a trip, even for a
                        > fellowship pastor, based on what people have written about him here. If
                        > he ever crosses The Little Big Man, there will be no shortage of
                        > ammunition to justify his removal.
                        >
                        > Shalom
                        > Ken
                        >
                      • kenhaining777
                        [Nick Sayers: (Jesus) ....Also fulfilled the law, so tithing is an option not an obligation.] Well, it looks like Nick is going through the usual evolution of
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 4, 2013
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                          [Nick Sayers:  (Jesus) ....Also fulfilled the law, so tithing is an option not an
                          obligation.]

                          Well, it looks like Nick is going through the usual evolution of someone who has left the Potters House.  There was a time when tithing was The Law of Nick.  Now he realizes what the New Testament really teaches on the subject.  Also, his remark about headship being on steroids is typical of someone who is slowly coming out of the fog.  Down the road he will most likely realize that the whole headship trip is bogus, and just something Mitch invented to have increased domination over church members, and eventually over pastors and leaders. 

                          It will be interesting to see what he is saying in another few years. 

                          Shalom
                          Ken



                        • its_just_me_nancy
                          OMG!! Say it ain t so, Nick the great defender of Wayman the Christ has defected from the cult! I am actually happy for him although he was a total ass to all
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 4, 2013
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                            OMG!! Say it ain't so, Nick the great defender of Wayman the Christ has defected from the cult!

                             I am actually happy for him although he was a total ass to all of us.

                            I am glad he woke up and smelled the coffee, and I wish him the best. Wow, that made my day!

                            Thanks for posting this!!!

                            Peace - Nancy









                            s

                            > Byron Bay, New South Wales
                            > Current City
                            >
                            > http://facebook.com/Nickolas.Sayers
                            >
                            > Post
                            > Nick Sayers
                            >
                            > Saw there was a potters house meeting in Goonelabah. Some visiting preacher from overseas. Thought, hmm ok I'll check it out and everyone greeted me warmly saw some familiar faces. Then the latest pastor Gran Huggins appeared and was all psych angry and said I caused 80 people to backslide and when I attempted to correct him he told me I need to get over it, (although he brought it up accusing me). He told me that souls are lost because of me. I have only ever met the guy once on the streets. Wow Haagenson did a real scapegoat on me. Looks like people still don't know what transpired.
                            >
                            > Like · · Share · 3 hours ago near Goonellabah, New South Wales via mobile·
                            >
                            >
                            > 2 people like this..
                            >
                            >
                            > Col Foskett Mate you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes it is easier to believe the lie than the truth. It also shows what a dangerous borderline church the Potters House is.
                            >
                            > 3 hours ago · Like · 1..
                            >
                            >
                            > Col Foskett * and more convenient to believe the lies
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers Their doctrine is ok, the headship is unaccountable. He can't just front up to someone you don't know and blame them for everything the former pastor did.
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers The headship doctrine is on steroids.
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Col Foskett the pastor is above reproach doctrine is not ok...that's why you've been labelled a rebel
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers I mean, about 50 people all agreed (and still do) that Haagenson lied and caused the church to split but amazingly the official has been so twisted and now is that I caused that somehow. I didn't even start questioning him until about 45 people had left and the tweed church folded. I even defended him lol. But when I saw how many lies were spoken and did the "Matthew 18" thing 2 times and was just basically told to be quiet, I realised that these guys have no accountability whatsoever.
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Col Foskett yep I remember how it all went down...and the best thing I did was leave that church and get on with my life. I'm not going back and tbh I don't really want to dig it all up again. Hope all is good with you Nick take care bro...
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago · Like · 1..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers I mean most of it, apart from the headship doctrine really. And probably generational curses with healing and other smaller trivial matters.
                            >
                            > I remember back in the day that someone like belly or brad could backslide 6 -7 times and still be welcomed in. I suppose because I have maintained salvation and am still in faith, it is a threat I guess.
                            >
                            > The headship doctrine comes from John Bevere and teaches that a pastor is akin to an OT king. But Jesus said if you want to be great in the kingdom, serve others, and never lord it over others as they do in the world.
                            >
                            > Jesus
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like · 1..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers ....Also fulfilled the law, so tithing is an option not an obligation.
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers Haha looked weird how it just said "Jesus" at the end, like I was swearing lol. Whoops.
                            >
                            > 2 hours ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Cricketbat Jim what the hell do we do
                            >
                            > about an hour ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers I think the shame is that for many, their only experience with God is in CFM, so coming to God is linked with church, God is one prayer away, and from what I saw tonight. God would probably steer clear of the Lismore Potters House. God is much more exciting than that.
                            >
                            > about an hour ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Darren Dainty I found out the other night Ps Gunton is now a cop in Paky!!! I will probably see him around soon, hopefully he lets me off.
                            >
                            > 53 minutes ago · Like · 1..
                            >
                            >
                            > Sharon Dainty Yeah nick. Your the reason I backslid...not.. Amazing how time warps things.... Could be a song in that. ... Its just a jump to the left.
                            >
                            > 42 minutes ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Andrew Purchase bummer bro, but we know you have moved on to bigger and better things, yes and i'm the reason north korea is acting up
                            >
                            > 37 minutes ago · Like · 1..
                            >
                            >
                            > Edith Wilson Nick many can identify with you,how dangerous and how many are stumbled by that sort of action which is not uncommon.Praise God ,you are out and you are answerable to God and not these people. Forward Ever Backward Never!
                            >
                            > 15 minutes ago · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Edith Wilson One example Andrew, i was told I would be accountable on the day of Judgement for supporting you!
                            >
                            > 13 minutes ago · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Christian Freeman Blessings Nick!
                            >
                            > 11 minutes ago · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Nick Sayers Todd is to blame for the collapse of Syria!
                            >
                            > about a minute ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Write a comment...
                            >
                            > Paula Kennedy wat!!! thats unbelievable u being the blame wat a joke. well lets see our family along with a few others had made our own choices to leave, some moved on to another church n others needed a break from it all as they had been pressured to much over the yrs. but im praying for those to go to the 1 they know who is real, the 1 that bought us together as a family, the 1 who let it happen for my family to look up to. GOD. thats who is the 1 n we all know that.
                            >
                            > a few seconds ago via mobile · Like..
                            >
                            >
                            > Options.
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777 no_reply@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > garthe said:
                            > >
                            > > [Hi Ken
                            > > Not sure if I am still a member here. but the emails keep turning up in
                            > > my
                            > > Yahoo mailbox which I rarely look at these days.]
                            > >
                            > > Apparently you are still a member as your posts are coming through fine.
                            > > I rarely delete any memberships as sometimes people pop in after being
                            > > gone a few years.
                            > >
                            > > Because the Cracked Pots message board has no moderator it is flooded
                            > > with Spam. Too hard to keep up with it, and also any psycho potterhead
                            > > could show up and be as nasty as they wanted with ex members. Nick of
                            > > Lismore was the leader of that sort. However, there seems to have been
                            > > a real push to get everyone off the internet, and Wayman even has
                            > > preached about staying off of blogs. So, Nick and ilk have vanished as
                            > > far as I can tell, and are not even on Facebook any more.
                            > >
                            > > Anyway, welcome back. Feel free to comment. I understand that most ex
                            > > members have better things to do than talk about their experiences in
                            > > Wayman's World and the getting out experience. I tend to maintain an
                            > > interest in it and the larger issue of man and religion. It is also
                            > > interesting for me to see what ex members believe and are thinking after
                            > > they have been out for an extended period of time.
                            > >
                            > > Shalom
                            > > Ken
                            > >
                            >

                          • kenhaining777
                            From Nick s Facebook dialogue: [Col Foskett Mate you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes it is easier to believe the lie than the truth. It also shows what a
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 7, 2013
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                              From Nick's Facebook dialogue:

                              [Col Foskett Mate you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes it is easier to believe
                              the lie than the truth. It also shows what a dangerous borderline church the
                              Potters House is.

                              3 hours ago · Like · 1..


                              Col Foskett * and more convenient to believe the lies

                              2 hours ago · Like..


                              Nick Sayers Their doctrine is ok, the headship is unaccountable. He can't just
                              front up to someone you don't know and blame them for everything the former
                              pastor did.  ]

                              It is always interesting, for me at least, to watch the thinking process of the ex member of the fellowship, and the different phases that it goes through.  There was a time if someone said that the Potters House is a dangerous, borderline church, Nick would have gone into serious attack mode.  Now he gives an answer that shows that he sees through Waymanism to some degree, but he buffers it with "Their doctrine is OK..."   He goes on, however, to note that the headship, that is the pastors and leaders in the fellowship, are unaccountable.  Nick has learned, the hard way, that the moment you challenge a pastor, who is in good standing in the fellowship, you are automatically wrong, in rebellion, and in need of repentance.  Nick had stormed out of his Potters House church in Lismore, shouting out judgment against the pastor.  So, of course he is considered a backslidden devil who caused 80 other people to backslide. 

                              Now Nick needs to grow more even more aware of what the fellowship really is and realize that their doctrine is not OK.  The uncountable headship is in fact part of their teachings.  We were told that we should obey our pastor even if we thought he was wrong and that we would leave any correction of the pastor to his own headship and/or to God.  Nick violated that teaching and took it upon himself to judge his pastor, which is actually what the Bible teaches he should have done.  The Bible is irrelevant in the fellowship, and mostly out of context, twisted Scriptures are used to manipulate the church members into becoming what Wayman O. always wants them to become, that is, human resources.  Using the Bible to judge fellowship pastors and leaders, to see if they are really servants of God, or wolves in sheep's clothing, is forbidden, for obvious reasons.  You don't need to do much comparing between what the Bible says pastors should be and what fellowship pastors are to realize that fellowship so called pastors are nothing of the sort.  There are some pastors who are sincerely trying to serve God, but they have bought into fellowship teaching as the Word of God, and do not realize that Wayman's doctrines are sucking the life out of people, including many of the pastors themselves.

                              I wonder what the Nick of 2007 would think of the Nick of 2013?  Give him a few more years and he may see through the whole thing. 

                              Shalom
                              Ken



                            • kenhaining777
                              From Nick s Facebook dialogue: [The headship doctrine comes from John Bevere and teaches that a pastor is akin to an OT king. But Jesus said if you want to be
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 7, 2013
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                                From Nick's Facebook dialogue:

                                [The headship doctrine comes from John Bevere and teaches that a pastor is akin
                                to an OT king. But Jesus said if you want to be great in the kingdom, serve
                                others, and never lord it over others as they do in the world.]

                                Not so.  Wayman was teaching headship back in the 70s when John Bevere was a young teenager. 

                                Headship is a center piece doctrine of Waymanism.  As Nick mentions, it is based quite a bit on "not lifting your hand against the LORD's anointed," which what David said about King Saul, when David was on the run from Saul, who wanted to kill David. David essentially took the position that even when Saul was being a total bastard it was still not David's place to judge him.  He left Saul's judgment to God.  

                                Headship doctrine was also based on Korah's rebellion against Moses, and Aaron and Miriam's rebellion against Moses.  The idea that was brought in is that these rebels, in the Bible accounts, made the claim that they also heard from the LORD, and therefore they did not have to submit to Moses.  So, if you thought that God spoke to you, and it contradicted what your pastor told you, then you were deceived.  You were to bow to the "superior" revelation knowledge that God equipped your pastor with.  I even heard it preached that God would never contradict what your pastor told you.  You would even ignore those times when your pastor absolutely contradicted the Bible itself. 

                                There are other examples from the Old Testament that Wayman used to justify his headship doctrine.  He, and his appointed leaders, who learned this stuff from Wayman, used Elijah and Elisha as an example of a pastor and disciple, and because it was said that Elisha poured water on the hands of Elijah, meaning that Elisha assisted Elijah in washing  his hands, it was taught that you learned to serve God by serving your pastor.  Wayman used this to totally throw out what Jesus taught to his disciples about being servants, and not lords over God's people.  Just a casual observation of fellowship pastors and leaders reveals that the teachings of Jesus are pretty much ignored. 

                                I wonder what kind of church Nick attends now?  I wonder if he will ever accept the teaching of eternal security?  Time will tell. 

                                Shalom
                                Ken



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