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Re: Potters House threaterns legal action a demonstration that the PH r famous for

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  • kenhaining777
    daveperth4 said: [lol Well, I guess something like that was bound to happen (actually this is the second time I ve seen someone complain of slander on the
    Message 1 of 48 , Jun 1, 2012
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      daveperth4 said:

      [lol

      Well, I guess something like that was bound to happen (actually this is the second time I've seen someone complain of slander on the First Plumbline Apologetics website). The article was rubbish and slanderous. Miguel has a habit of posting material blown out of proportion.

      "One of the two leading fellowshippers who run the board, Kevin Northcott, is said to have at one point been on the list of Australia's top 10 most wanted internet hackers. "

      Give me a break.

      Though I find it hard to believe that Kevin's potential employer found the article and actually linked it to him. I typed in "kevin northcott" in Google, and I had to go through seven pages of various people named kevin northcott before finding that article. Unless they knew he was connected to the Potters House, I don't see how they were so sure it had anything to do with him.]

      The way it is worded, "is said to have at one point...." makes it a moot point.  Just like actual news publications will say, "according to sources..." and that gives them an out, so will this work in most other cases of someone making accusations.  I don't approve of it, but anyone with a discerning eye will know that any such report is dubious.  Elevating a petty criminal to "most wanted" status is silly.  Who would even bother to do the research to see if this report is true?  Most people have better things to do with their time.

      We don't want to use fellowship tactics of publishing every rumor we hear about current members, pastors, and leaders.  Sure, we will put up something we have heard and see if anyone can verify it, but we all remember how any negative report about "backsliders" was immediately believed when we were in Wayman's World.  We don't want to turn into the mirror image of the fellowship.  There's enough damning truth about the fellowship, facts, so that we don't need to use stuff that isn't true.

      On another note, if the report about Kev, as Nick used to call him, is false, then he has a right to ask that it be taken down.  I do think, however, threatening legal action is futile.  I laugh at the stuff I read in some places on the internet about me.  That's because I know it is not true, and anyone who really knows me also knows it is not true.  Besides, how many people are researching the internet and reading up on Ken Haining these days?  Not many, I would think, and I am going to do another post on a related subject. 

      And like Dave, I have to wonder about employers looking this stuff up.  I have never had an interview for a job where the interviewer said, "I read some stuff about you on the internet...."  Ironically, by threatening legal action, and the subject coming up here, Kev has probably inspired more attention to the article than it ever would have had.  I doubt Dave would have read it if the subject had never come up.  The sense I get from these fellowship guys is that they have this delusion of self importance.  They just can't imagine that something written about them is not being read by thousands of important people.  How silly can you get?

      Shalom
      Ken



       




    • Loki
      You didn t come across as too strong at all. I ve expressed skepticism about these things in other forums and I can tell you it s a good thing I remembered to
      Message 48 of 48 , Jun 24, 2012
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        You didn't come across as too strong at all. I've expressed skepticism about these things in other forums and I can tell you it's a good thing I remembered to wear my asbestos suit first. ;^)

        I might have a look at Petersen's stuff if I find the time. I presume that data taken from California would be too noisy. It's so highly populated with people and industry that there could be 1000 different phenomena all contributing to changes in the environment. I would be more inclined to see sample data from less well populated areas of North America, like Nebraska or Nova Scotia.

        But I am an Über-skeptic. Even my colleagues and friends sometimes express dismay at my skepticism. Like I'm an a theist, but that doesn't mean that I completely buy into evolution. (Though the arguments against it are pretty lame). And I have no problems telling professional astronomers and mathematicians that they are not real scientists (as long as I've already ascertained that I can tun faster than them).

        Cheers,
        Perry


        --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "cigarscoffeeandbeer" <cigarscoffeeandbeer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Perry ... sorry if I came across too strong - I get really passionate about this issue because I really feel we have been lied to on a very large scale ... all my alienation training from CFM kicked in even after all these years ... (j/k - I learned how to be a jerk long before CFM - they just made a bad thing worse LOL)
        >
        > By the way - in reference to clean sample data, there is a scientist by the name of Rosalind Petersen who founded California Sky Watch who analyzed the State of California's own data. She talks about it, in a rational scientific manner. She refuses to use the word "chemtrails" because of the visceral response people give it.
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az8v54cwWTg
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "Loki" <lokilad@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I'm out of time today, but I want to take what little time I have today to thank you for the civil response. In my previous reply I tried to provide reasonably strong debate without sounding condescending.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > > Perry
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "cigarscoffeeandbeer" <cigarscoffeeandbeer@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In summary, maybe they're not spraying you down in Australia, but we have a REAL - not contrived - problem in the US.
        > > >
        > > > From what I am learning, it is mostly NATO countries that are being sprayed, and there is evidence of it happening all over Europe as well.
        > > >
        > > > So maybe you're not having a problem there, and so you should be glad of it.
        > > >
        > > > As much as I would love to believe there is no problem, it is inescapable in the US. Every part of the country is showing evidence.
        > > >
        > > > Weather modification strategies using aluminum particulates are patented here in the US.
        > > >
        > > > So, I would be the first to say I was duped by bullshit. I actually wish there was a solid, definitive answer that made me feel stupid for
        > > > even suggesting it, however, I have yet to hear anything that explains it conclusively, and the mounting evidence from water sampling all over this country is showing that something is in fact related to planes with persistent contrails.
        > > >
        > > > If you haven't looked up at a sky with trails, you won't know the feeling you get, and you won't understand how it feels that we are being duped and lied to.
        > > >
        > > > The technology exists, the laws were passed that allow it, while the public was not paying attention. And now it is happening on a large scale.
        > > >
        > > > Watch the video link I posted - there are serious, credible rational people looking into this.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "Loki" <lokilad@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Let's look at this rationally.
        > > > >
        > > > > > You're dismissing the issue out of hand, and without actually having
        > > > > > done any reading on the subject to find out what is being discussed.
        > > > >
        > > > > A typical reaction from conspiracy theorists to people who disagree with them is to assume that the other party is ignorant and has done no research on the matter. It's a simple enough assumption, the implication being that once someone has done the "right" amount of research, then they'll "see the light".
        > > > >
        > > > > The fact is -- and this will come as no surprise to the people who know me well here -- I have done the research and found the evidence for chemtrails to be lacking. The questions asked of me here are based on invalid assumptions.
        > > > >
        > > > > E.g. "explain to me why these trails also lead to higher levels of aluminum, barium, and other chemicals in the ground water". First of all, the assumption is that prior to the appearance of these suspicious looking contrails, there were lower levels of those chemicals. But how verifiable is that? The only way you could tell is if people had taken measurements of those chemical compositions *before* the contrails appeared and then taken measurements *aferwards* and a comparison been made. And not just for one or two sites, but for as many different sites as possible.
        > > > >
        > > > > The challenge to "just look up at the sky" is pointless in my regard. As most people here would recall, I'm an avid amateur astronomer. I'm looking at the sky all the time. I don't see any evidence of suspicious looking contrails. But maybe that's just because the chemtrails aren't being deposited where I live. Or it's because they don't exist at all.
        > > > >
        > > > > The line about chemtrails not being officially announced by the government or the media or Oprah is amusing. None of those sources have officially announced pink elephants on Mars either.
        > > > >
        > > > > Now, moving onto the bit about the police forces and Hitler and all that. That's a separate issue. Conspiracy theorists love to blur the lines by bringing up several unrelated topics and mixing them all into one big conspiracy. That is laughable.
        > > > >
        > > > > As I reported a few months back, I was at the Occupy Melbourne rally and witnessed with my own eyes the use of police brutality against unarmed civilians (including children). Mounted police may look impressive and all that, but when they're being used to herd people like cattle in crowded urban areas, while the Lord Mayor watches from the rooftop of the town hall, you really wonder who the government is trying to protect. But like I said, that's a separate issue.
        > > > >
        > > > > The conspiracy theorist blindly assumes that I'm ignorant of any of that, simply because I'm skeptical about chemtrails. See the lack of reason there?
        > > > >
        > > > > Regarding the maligning of the online communities. I didn't do that. I simply stated that their members shower each other with continuous positive reinforcement (which they do). And I pointed out the fallacy of the argument that states that if a lot of people agree with you, then you must be on to something. If you object to someone saying those things, then I wonder how you think you'll ever get through to people when you can't handle simple criticism.
        > > > >
        > > > > But the biggest problem in this debate is the inevitable conclusion that the conspiracy theorists reach that the government on a global scale is out to get them. Well duh! Having been an active member of Amnesty International for quite a while now, I'm well aware of the subversions of human rights committed by governments all over the world. But all I have to do is display skepticism concerning chemtrails and the simple assumption is that I'm ignorant of all these things. Not that I'm offended. Just amused.
        > > > >
        > > > > Cheers,
        > > > > Perry
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "cigarscoffeeandbeer" <cigarscoffeeandbeer@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Actually. the chemtrail issue is not easy to confound. What IS confounding is people who go out of their way to deny it.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I for one would rather not be bothered with the issue.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > However, the fact is - LOOK UP IN THE SKY. What is happening is fact, not imagination.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Until the mid 1990's there were no persistent contrails.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Explain to me why the contrails persist, and do not disappear - in warm air. Normal contrails, form in cold air and dissipate after a few seconds.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Explain to me why there are HUGE patterns in the sky that do not match up with commercial air traffic. Explain to me why these trails also lead to higher levels of aluminum, barium, and other chemicals in the ground water?
        > > > > >
        > > > > > You're dismissing the issue out of hand, and without actually having done any reading on the subject to find out what is being discussed.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Just because there is no official government or media explanation does not mean it is not happening. Aw, you didn't get an announcement from the mainstream media or see it on Oprah.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The problem is that most people have not been paying attention. They don't want to believe that any government would do something so huge, on such a large scale. I bet you think fluoride is harmless also. No one wanted to believe Hitler would exterminate millions of people. No one wants to believe the government would detain people indefinitely. No one wants to believe the police can arrest you without any reason and violate your rights.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > But all these things ARE happening and to just dismiss it out of hand with a smirk means you haven't really done any investigating.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > And to malign people that have banded together on social media to discuss it is insulting as well. By the way, there are huge protests going on in Europe over the chemtrail issue. Several states are passing laws and public pressure is mounting for an answer to what is really going on. What you dismiss as conspiracy theory is really people connecting the dots. They may not have all the facts about who and what but they are connecting the dots and it doesn't look harmless. So people want to know. Idiots want to be blissfully ignorant.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > You can laugh it off now, but the smart people are asking questions because this is air we ALL breathe.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "Loki" <lokilad@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Anyway... the chemtrails one is easy to confound. In order for it to be true, it would have to involve a global conspiracy involving every airline pilot, every flight attendant, every airline maintenance worker. Really...
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Cheers,
        > > > > > > Perry
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, its_just_me_nancy <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > One of the things explained is the conditioning process, of being
        > > > > > > > conditioned to call a conspiracy a theory. True conspiracies exist.
        > > > > > > > J. Edgar Hoover talked about people being confronted with a conspiracy
        > > > > > > > so huge that it boggles the mind, such that we deny it exists.
        > > > > > > > You've been taught to "go with the flow" and if the crowd dismisses
        > > > > > > > it, then so should you. Then everyone goes along with it and laughs it
        > > > > > > > off and the perpetrator gets away with it.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Everything you said just really scares me .
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I thought that Eric was freaking himself out by constantly looking at
        > > > > > > > this stuff on the internet while smoking weed.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I believed he was rather paranoid when he would try to explain these
        > > > > > > > bizaare things to his dad and me.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > He actually called Randolph Air Force Base here in San Antonio and asked
        > > > > > > > why "they" were depositing chemtrails into our air.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Pissed me off because he called from my home phone, and now we are
        > > > > > > > probably on the FBI list ... (now, who is being paranoid?)
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I totally believe things are going on behind the scenes, I just don't
        > > > > > > > know how "the ordinary people" are going to get together and stop it
        > > > > > > > all. I will check out the sites that you posted.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Peace - Nancy
        > > > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, "cigarscoffeeandbeer"
        > > > > > > > <cigarscoffeeandbeer@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > If you watch that movie I mentioned earlier,
        > > > > > > > (http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_movie) - it does a great job of
        > > > > > > > explaining how our society and this planet has been manipulated.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > As much as this board is about CFM falsehoods and manipulations, they
        > > > > > > > pale in comparison to the massive con and manipulations from the
        > > > > > > > globalist elites - all of which has us included whether we believe it or
        > > > > > > > not.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > One of the things explained is the conditioning process, of being
        > > > > > > > conditioned to call a conspiracy a theory. True conspiracies exist.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > J. Edgar Hoover talked about people being confronted with a conspiracy
        > > > > > > > so huge that it boggles the mind, such that we deny it exists.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > You've been taught to "go with the flow" and if the crowd dismisses
        > > > > > > > it, then so should you. Then everyone goes along with it and laughs it
        > > > > > > > off and the perpetrator gets away with it.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Chemtrails are real. The skies didn't used to look like they do now.
        > > > > > > > Look up. Notice the patterns.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Chemtrails really are a huge conspiracy. Much of it is being done to
        > > > > > > > modify the weather. Watch the weather in your area. On days you see a
        > > > > > > > lot of trails in the sky, notice within a couple days that you will have
        > > > > > > > rain. Look up "geoengineering", "weather modification". While no smoking
        > > > > > > > gun exists, and no official explanation exists, you have to ask yourself
        > > > > > > > - did the skies always look this way?
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > How do we go from a nice blue sky in the morning, and then by mid-day
        > > > > > > > a sky full if trails that do not match known commercial flight paths,
        > > > > > > > and then these trails expand and bloom out to man made haze and clouds?
        > > > > > > > At the very least this is pollution - something we never saw 20 years
        > > > > > > > ago.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, the sheeple just run around like ants being poisoned and
        > > > > > > > act like it doesn't exist.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > People are testing the rainwater and finding elevated levels of
        > > > > > > > aluminum and barium in the rainwater right after a heavy spray day.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > There are now several chemtrail action groups in Facebook, and several
        > > > > > > > states are now passing no-fly zones over their counties and states in an
        > > > > > > > effort to stop it. It can be stopped and so don't just lay down and say
        > > > > > > > "what can the little guy do?" = that's how they win. Get off your ass
        > > > > > > > and expose it, talk about it, get informed, learn, and support others
        > > > > > > > who are trying to expose this huge conspiracy.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > The same thing with flouride in the water, vaccinations - all this
        > > > > > > > shit can be stopped we just need to stop taking it.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > This will give you a lot of good information:
        > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf0khstYDLA
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, its_just_me_nancy
        > > > > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > "We don't know if Roswell was a con, and we don't know how much the
        > > > > > > > > > governments
        > > > > > > > > > of the world have lied to us, hidden the truth from us, and how much
        > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > just
        > > > > > > > > > plain bullshit."
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I think that if we knew exactly what is going on behind the scenes
        > > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > > > this world, we would be scared every minute of the day! I guess in
        > > > > > > > some
        > > > > > > > > > situations, ignorance is bliss?
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > My son got into reading all this conspiracy theory stuff on the
        > > > > > > > > > internet.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > He was reading about the government poisoning people with airplane
        > > > > > > > > > "chemtrails"... about the government building concentration camps
        > > > > > > > for
        > > > > > > > > > American people... and on and on..
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I just told him. .. "What can we do, even if this stuff is true? "
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Just live your life son....
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Peace, Nancy
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com,
        > > > > > > > "cigarscoffeeandbeer"
        > > > > > > > > > <cigarscoffeeandbeer@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Stargate visited several of these questions routinely, and I
        > > > > > > > thought
        > > > > > > > > > it was much more compelling than Star Trek - although I loved Star
        > > > > > > > Trek
        > > > > > > > > > for what it was, but Stargate was in my mind more compelling.
        > > > > > > > Stargate
        > > > > > > > > > did a nice job of tying all of Earth's major lores and religions
        > > > > > > > into a
        > > > > > > > > > common explanation.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > BTW - re: Dune - have you seen the movie? I liked the movie, never
        > > > > > > > had
        > > > > > > > > > time to read the book.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I get this thought that maybe SciFi was a kind of subtle education
        > > > > > > > for
        > > > > > > > > > preparing the masses for the great reveal ... I think we all want to
        > > > > > > > > > believe, we just don't know what to believe ...
        > > > > > > > > > > Debunking, mocking, ridiculing ... it's a kind of safety shield
        > > > > > > > people
        > > > > > > > > > hide behind ...
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > We don't know if Roswell was a con, and we don't know how much the
        > > > > > > > > > governments of the world have lied to us, hidden the truth from us,
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > how much is just plain bullshit.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Have any of you watched the Thrive movie? This is actually a lot
        > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > science fact and well worth the view ...
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_movie
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I watch stuff like this ... and then I look at the silliness of
        > > > > > > > what
        > > > > > > > > > is actually happening on this planet ...
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777
        > > > > > > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > John said:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > [I have always been fascinated by the Nazca drawings not to
        > > > > > > > mention
        > > > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > > ancient
        > > > > > > > > > > > cities and their impossible to comprehend cut stone blocks they
        > > > > > > > are
        > > > > > > > > > > > built with.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Ancient man was not primitive as we were taught through school.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Evolution is as
        > > > > > > > > > > > much a lie as anything else. For a while in between my initial
        > > > > > > > > > salvation
        > > > > > > > > > > > experience in 1979 and my Potty period, I was a "believer" of
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > Alien
        > > > > > > > > > > > Intervention in mankinds past. There were a number of books
        > > > > > > > written
        > > > > > > > > > by
        > > > > > > > > > > > Erich von
        > > > > > > > > > > > Daniken that I had devoured.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I have always loved Sci-Fi & Fantasy genres, and my book
        > > > > > > > collection
        > > > > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > > mostly
        > > > > > > > > > > > those. Even while I was a Potty and despite the snide comments
        > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > disdain that
        > > > > > > > > > > > accompanied that from the "disciples".]
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Something happened at one point in the human race where we went
        > > > > > > > from
        > > > > > > > > > > > cave dwelling nomads to building cities and having scientific
        > > > > > > > > > knowledge
        > > > > > > > > > > > and so on. The theories of intervention by beings from other
        > > > > > > > worlds
        > > > > > > > > > > > have some merit to them. There was a Star Trek Next Generation
        > > > > > > > > > episode
        > > > > > > > > > > > that showed how easy it would be for primitive people to think
        > > > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > technologically advanced people as gods. The original Star Trek
        > > > > > > > > > series
        > > > > > > > > > > > had an episode where they ran into Apollo, and discovered that
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > Greek
        > > > > > > > > > > > Gods were actually advanced aliens who visited the Earth for a
        > > > > > > > > > period of
        > > > > > > > > > > > time. I don't discount the possibility of these type theories.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I read an article about a professor at the University I
        > > > > > > > graduated
        > > > > > > > > > from,
        > > > > > > > > > > > SUNY at Stony Brook, and he was saying that in about 15 years
        > > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > > > debate
        > > > > > > > > > > > about evolution will be over, and it will be more or less an
        > > > > > > > > > established
        > > > > > > > > > > > fact. He said that you may not like the word evolution, but the
        > > > > > > > > > truth
        > > > > > > > > > > > of the matter is that life on this planet has gone through major
        > > > > > > > > > changes
        > > > > > > > > > > > over the ages. Do you think things magically changed or
        > > > > > > > naturally
        > > > > > > > > > > > changed? I personally believe in intelligently guided evolution.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever read Dune? My son got me to read it a few years
        > > > > > > > back
        > > > > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > > > > > I thought it was a great book. As I mentioned, there were those
        > > > > > > > who
        > > > > > > > > > got
        > > > > > > > > > > > "saved" in the fellowship who burned books like that. It is
        > > > > > > > amazing
        > > > > > > > > > > > that in this day and age we still have people who think that a
        > > > > > > > > > science
        > > > > > > > > > > > fiction book has "demons."
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Shalom
        > > > > > > > > > > > Ken
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
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